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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Just to comment on Simon Watkin's reply - he clarified that the HO believe a system could be made that is within the law which is something I've said before. Unfortunately they do not seem to know how Phorm's system works and also seem a little reluctant to find out, why? We know it doesn't work within the law and that no system that did would be commercially viable - Phorm need lots of users which a truly informed opt-in system would not get them. HO need to investigate this issue, they cannot take Phorm's or BT's word for it. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I am just now heavily editing and rewriting one of the letters someone else put up here (Sorry cant remember who wrote it originally, so many have been posted here) so that I can write a follow up letter to my MP. He failed to respond to my first letter and its now been almost 4 weeks since I first wrote. He is a labour MP so I aren't overly hopeful but I intend to write the closing paragraph in a way he will find more difficult to ignore.
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Like Florence, I have now heard from Simon Watkin, a well-measured, professional reply, all be it one with which I have deep concerns. However, as it does not tell us much more than his reply to Florence, as I have some supplementary questions and as he hasn't given express permission for me to publish it here, I'll summarise the correspondence after I've heard from him again providing of course he gives his permission.
The same cannot be said for the reply I received from the Home Office. Here therefore is the entire correspondence so far. Please draw your own conclusions. Quote:
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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You seem to have the wrong end of a few sticks here. For the record, I think at present about three members of the Phorm UK PR effort will be present tonight. Personally speaking I won't be and neither will other team members I know. Secondly, if you take a look at the intro to Dr Clayton's report at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080404phorm.pdf he himself covers the process by which Phorm checked his report. We did not edit it or indeed censor what he saw - check the ORG site and even they refer to thier access as "the real deal". We did not pay for or commission the report either. We invited Richard Clayton and the ORG to look at our system. Not out of arrogance but a simple desire to be as transparent as possible. And as for your suspicion that he is not an expert take a look at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/ - the man's CV is outstanding. As always, if you want any more information, check out http://www.webwise.com or http://www.phorm.com |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Your on-going campaign of unsubstantiated innuendo and hysterical attacks on Simon's character does not further the discussion and denigrates the efforts of Alex and the rest of the forum's investigations of Phorm. I'd invite you in future to provide sources for any claims against individuals who are demonstrably independent and, as far as I'm currently aware, beyond reproach. In that post you also ask: Quote:
---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ---------- @Phorm PR Still not managed to find the time to moderate my posts to the Phorm blog or respond to my question, I see? So much for making it your priority... :td: |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Welcome back PhormPRTeam and if I may be so bold may I thank you for cutting out the spin. Your last post was both accurate and clear for once. Hopefully this bodes well for the future.
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I have just seen this post on the BT Forum, which looks interesting.
Re: BT Webwise Discussion Thread Posted: Apr 15, 2008 4:44 PM in response to: Mark W Reply Mark W wrote: The hosting for the http://www.bt.com/webwise/ site is currently suffering from some issues, I'm told it should be back up later today. Mark W - If your post is an answer to Sean, then are you saying his general browsing problems are due to a Webwise server problem? That his general browsing traffic is somehow being routed through the webwise server? Can we quote you on that? Something along the lines of: "In answer to a BT customer's (Sean Thorpe's) question about problems he has been having recently connecting to many websites, while blocking cookies from webwise, BT staff member Mark W replied in the BT official Beta forums, that the BT Webwise site was currently suffering from some issues and should be back up later in the day." Until this post, users had understood that their normal browsing traffic did not pass through Webwise servers (which are hosted at an IP address whose lookup gives an address in Houston, Texas). Could you clarify before we copy your post across the various Webwise related sites on the internet and send it to the Register? Let's say within the next 24 hours? Or perhaps we should just forward it for answer at the 80/20 meeting tonight? And while we're at it - there are one or two other unanswered questions on the various Phorm/Webwise discussion threads as well as the locked Q&A threads. Will anyone be answering those? Don't forget the public 80/20 meeting about Phorm tonight in London. http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...ad-page-3.html Mark W has just added this. Apologies about that I misunderstood Sean's question, I thought he was having issues connecting to the Webwise FAQ site. That site was having some issues with it's hosting earlier today, it's not connected with any of the systems that the Webwise trial will be using and the trial has not yet started. As I've already stated the next time BT will be updating the FAQ pages will be when we release information about the trial, when that happens I'll post an update here. Also I've had to delete a number of posts from this thread referring to various moderator actions as this against our rules and guidelines. Respect the moderators Please do not 'call out' or argue with moderator decisions on the community. If you have any comments or questions about the actions of the moderation team you can contact them via email at forum dot moderation dot team at bt dot com. If you want to discuss any posts of yours that have been moderated please use that above address. Thanks Mark Wilkin Support Community Coordinator |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
I dont want to touch phorm websites or webwise with a barge pole hence the information from there missing, did you give full source code of the software going to be deployed to mr clayton when he visited?
Apologies for any mistaken persons involved with my misinformation maybe im just to paranoid after having next to no sleep last night ill sit back and watch from now on. p.s phormpr can you answer questions instead of deflecting to people's misjudged judgment of charcter today? |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Something like: "Please tell me how you believe BT's interception did not amount to a criminal offence under RIPA." |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi Portly_Giraffe
It is a shame that the home office are unable to read. they have stated before that RIPA is primarily about how state bodies; such as the police, local councils the security and intelligence agencies, conduct some of their investigatory functions. However chapter 1 section 1. of the act says that the act also applies to "a person" intercepting postal and telecomunication systems. ------------------------------------ Part I Communications Chapter I Interception Unlawful and authorised interception 1 Unlawful interception (1) It shall be an offence for a person intentionally and without lawful authority to intercept, at any place in the United Kingdom, any communication in the course of its transmission by means of— (a) a public postal service; or (b) a public telecommunication system. (2) It shall be an offence for a person— (a) intentionally and without lawful authority, and (b) otherwise than in circumstances in which his conduct is excluded by subsection (6) from criminal liability under this subsection, to intercept, at any place in the United Kingdom, any communication in the course of its transmission by means of a private telecommunication system. ------------------------------------------------- So it is clear that the act applies to a public telephone system, so when Bt intercepted the traffic, BT broke the Law. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000..._20000023_en_2 What the heck are the home office up to by misleading you on this. Many thanks for contacting them and posting the reply. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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I'm not sure but I don't think that using lack of sleep to explain your poor judgement calls would work as a defence against allegations of libel. Quote:
Then they (and I) won't feel the need to correct them... :) Obviously if you can back up each of your claims, then go right ahead. I'll be one of the first to check your sources! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Hi Portly-Giraffe
I think the key to dealing with the Civil servants is not to ask them to make any kind of judgement or offer an opinion. My response to him would be something along the lines of: Dear XXXXX, I believe I have been the victim of an illegal interception as defined by RIPA. The Information Commissioner in his statement [insert reference to the revised ICO statement] indicated that investigation of possible breaches of RIPA is the responsibility of the Home Office. Please could you tell me which agency, branch or department of the Home Office I should make my complaint to in the first instance. Regards .... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
To PhormUKPRteam
Simple question. PLEASE ANSWER. As I posted above section chaper1 section 1 of RIPA states Chapter 1 states the following:- ------------------------------------ Part I Communications Chapter I Interception Unlawful and authorised interception 1 Unlawful interception (1) It shall be an offence for a person intentionally and without lawful authority to intercept, at any place in the United Kingdom, any communication in the course of its transmission by means of (a) a public postal service; or (b) a public telecommunication system. (2) It shall be an offence for a person (a) intentionally and without lawful authority, and (b) otherwise than in circumstances in which his conduct is excluded by subsection (6) from criminal liability under this subsection, to intercept, at any place in the United Kingdom, any communication in the course of its transmission by means of a private telecommunication system. ------------------------------------------------- As PHORM intercepted a (b) a public telecommunication system. And Interception is illegal under the act, In what way to you think Phorm is legal. Please note this question is not about personal data. So please dont post the usual ..."we donet keep bla bla bla".... You Intercepted , as stated by BT. So why do you think the intercept is legal. Which QC provided you with legal advice.? Thank you |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Ok here ceedee
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7303426.stm thats where i got the information from "The report commissioned by Phorm and carried out by two respected privacy campaigners said sensitive user data should not be collected by the tool." I actually thought a commissioned report was were some party got paid correct me if im wrong. so i took bbc's report out of context apologies again to Richard Clayton and Simon Davies. Satisified ? |
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