Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

You liked my choice of words ;)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Russian citizens inconvenienced as a result of their government’s murderous rampage across someone else’s sovereign territory? See, how tiny is my violin. Part of the long-term problem here is your average Russian citizen’s indifference to the actions of their government. They generally don’t care if it doesn’t affect them, and when it does affect them they run away (if they can afford to). Wars have a habit of affecting bystanders (just ask the women and children of Bucha. Oh, that’s right, you can’t, they got raped and thrown in mass graves). Russia’s actions are vile and indefensible and there comes a point where the citizens of that country are inevitably going to experience consequences. War is unfair like that.

Notwithstanding any of the above, it’s quite possible for an embassy experiencing difficulties to operate a bare minimum emergency service or even to provide assistance to its nationals via a friendly third party.

(Equivocation and whataboutery incoming in 3 … 2 … 1…)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

There’s no prioritisation indicated by any of my posts. Ireland has obligations and should continue to adhere to them. If your contention is that Russian citizens around the world should be inconvenienced and essentially penalised for the actions of the Russian state then that’s a very, very slippery slope.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

The irony, given that was 99% of the content of your post.

As my initial post was Russian citizens are fair game, thanks for confirming it is your position. I doubt it will have the desired outcome at scale.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Bit of an inconvenience, it’s true - probably not as inconvenient as the daily cruise missile attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and civilians, though, killing and wounding many and leaving them with no heating, power, or water, or the crimes committed by Russian forces, including unlawful attacks, wilful killings of civilians, torture, and extrajudicial executions, but let’s get outraged by the fact that the Russian Embassy in Ireland isn’t getting it’s diesel (which was in fact in April, and has since been resolved, unlike the ongoing carnage in Ukraine…).

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

What you haven’t yet explored is exactly how the Irish government might meet its Convention obligations. I’m no expert on Irish law but I suspect they can’t compel private companies to restore whatever services or contracts they have withdrawn. This raises the possibility of the Irish army being tasked with delivering food parcels and gas bottles to the embassy gates. What do you think?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

My contention is that Irish people can make their own decisions, something that Putin would deny his own citizens. You can make up other conversations if you wish.

---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------

I would not be surprised if some company would supply the Russians if they are paid well enough. Seems fair to me. Let the market decide ;)

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Our Ukrainian guest has had to return to Dnipro as her son (who is not allowed to leave) is unwell. When we talk to her, she is often in the dark, cold and with no water. It is currently -4C at the moment, going down to -8C overnight. We can hear the air raid sirens while we talk to her. Maybe I should ask her how she feels about the poor Russian people in Eire having possible problems if/when they need to interact with their Embassy. I am sure she would be very sympathetic.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Asking people emotionally involved rarely induces a rational response. For some examples feel free to review your own posts.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I assume this is a reply to me? If not, please ignore. It was a serious question: you have a real concern about the impact of the Irish people's actions against the Russian embassy in Eire. How would you like me to represent your side of the debate to her?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

In any way you please the answer will be of no value in any case. At best she sees the enemy as the Russian state and can disassociate it from the people, at worst she sees the Russian people as the enemy and fair game.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

You are viewing this too simplistically. She speaks Russian as her primary language, she was born in Russia and her father is Russian. She is able to differentiate between the victims and the perpetrators.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I can only surmise that they are over compensating for their inaction, or even tacit approval, of Nazi Germany.

---------- Post added at 21:41 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

Well they tried that, they voted against the EU on the Lisbon Treaty. But that wasn’t allowed so they were told to vote again, this time the right way. Sounds to me like something Putin would do?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Incorrect, as usual. However, from what I understand, this is not the thread to discuss Eire and the EU.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It’s a parallel to your point and valid, also not incorrect.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

To lighten this thread here's something I bet you didn;t know came from Ukraine.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Known worldwide :confused:
Cant say I have heard of it.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

If you can provide an example of a referendum in Russia that the citizens voted no to, the government took on board their concerns and presented revised proposals to I think you and Ian would be in agreement.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It’s in the soundtracks of Home Alone and Harry Potter: The Prisoner of Azkaban, amongst others. In live performance it’s definitely a choral piece rather than something you’d try to get a congregation to sing, but it works very well in any Christmas film where you need a dramatic score. You’d probably recognise it if you heard it. That Youtube video is a news report with lots of talking over, so isn’t the clearest example. Try listening to this:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I don't think Pierre does the detail. It's the simplistic headlines that matter here.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

The irony.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Care to explain?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

You're right that tune does sound familiar, but I would not have a clue its called "Carol of the Bells". That name is not familiar at all. :)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No, because Russia wouldn't give them a referendum.

Ireland gave their people a referendum and they decided no.

But that was unacceptable to the EU, so they were told to think again, so in response to the statement my point was, well, yes they can, unless they make the wrong decision.

If they had said no again do you think it would have ended there? That would have put a stop the whole European project. We didn't even get a choice to vote on it.

No, they would have gone back, again and again until they got the answer they wanted.

It's happened twice in Ireland and once in Denmark. That was the parallel I was making.

But we digress.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

As it seems to be via the SNP in Scotland , the minority government's in most countries use this tool to push there agenda . Nothing new:p:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I don’t want to diverge from the topic any further best to leave it there, before we’re told to.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

you can if you disable Java

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Shouldn't have to disable Java. Anyway, Java isn't running on my PC.

Maybe Joglynne could post an extract, please.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

He means Javascript ...

Here's another article covering this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia...-war-1.6675660

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Sorry about that Seph. I just went straight in via a Sky News link.

Thank you for giving an alternative source ianch99's. Your link does indeed cover the same story.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1670454337

https://time.com/person-of-the-year-...ymyr-zelensky/

https://wapo.st/3VZm91T

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Not a good time to be a Russian Oligarch - might want to avoid staircases and windows…

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...a6c1387d4dfb4a

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I see one of Putin's useful idiots is trying to give him a helping hand. :td:
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/s...76927573512192

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I wouldn’t worry, these days with Trump and his allies the accent is on the idiot rather than the useful. What with the mid-terms and the spectre of prosecution over the January sedition on Capitol Hill, Trump is damaged goods and tweets like this appeal only to what we now know is a minority on the lunatic fringe of the GOP.

There’s some major butt-hurt on show this evening in Moscow with Zelenskyy getting the hero’s welcome in Washington while Putin attends choreographed audiences with his generals to assure them everything’s going to plan. Unsurprising that Putin’s fanboys in the west are sharing the pain.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Another $2Bn for Ukraine, including Patriot missiles and training for Ukrainians to use them, with a further £45Bn in the pipeline.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64060437

All in all a successful field trip for the Ukrainian C-in-C.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Zelensky given a warm welcome by congress and delivers a powerful speech.

Full sppech here.(about 25 min)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live...s/?id=95626111

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Lest we forget about the true situation in Ukraine before the invasion: https://rumble.com/v20895u-zelensky-...president.html

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Not sure what you mean by "the true situation in Ukraine before the invasion"?

This is a comedy sketch when he was a comedian from the TV series "Servant Of The People" and it must be over six years old (as Obama was President), not when he was a politician.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Indeed. It's likely that as a mere comedian (at that time) he was saying something pertinent about what was going in Ukraine.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Much like "Mrs Brown’s Boys" or "The Inbetweeners" were saying something pertinent about what was going on in the U.K.?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No, not like that. A little more serious. But I suspect that you know this.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It's satire, not Panorama.

Something you get in democratic nations but not the kind of thing you would see in the likes of Russia.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I’m not sure how this is in any way relevant.

Ukraine is absolutely entitled to sovereign control of its territory under international law. Obviously you haven’t said otherwise, however I also strongly doubt that you’re unaware that attempts to undermine Ukraine’s legal and moral right to an independent existence are central to the Russian information operation against them. One has to wonder why anyone would knowingly circulate Russia’s lines-to-take given the true situation in Ukraine today - even one as innocuous as a comedian riffing off an earlier election result.

Perhaps you could clarify how you think your link is relevant to a discussion of Ukraine’s attempts to resist invasion (and credible evidence of war crimes, including genocide)?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Actually, I wasn’t sure if you were serious…

Nothing says "conspiracy theory" or "misinformation" more than using a clip from a seven year old comedy show and using a vague non-specific statement to intimate that it showed something dodgy…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I thought better of you than this tbh, given your families history as well :(

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

What about these two dirt bags.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...a211cd7d5cb476

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Just as when Pinocchio was reunited with Geppetto.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Thank you, George…

(miaow)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

What’s the emoji for “nailed it” ?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Hopefully, this reduces the number of missiles hitting Ukraine. Pretty much Russia's main tactic now is to bomb the country non-stop.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

You appear to be assuming that my dislike of the situation in Ukraine before the invasion (2nd most corrupt country in Europe/lots of actual Nazis/oppressing ethnic Russians/ allowing themselves to be used to irritate Russia) means that I am a fan of Putin. I'm not.

---------- Post added at 18:04 ---------- Previous post was at 17:54 ----------

Democratic?! You are aware that back in 2021 opposition party members were placed under house arrest? Or that TV stations were shut down?
OK, they were pro Russian politicians and TV channels but that was almost a year before things kicked off.
Ukraine was and is a byword for state and private sector corruption (second only to Russia) and we are meant to cheer for Zelensky and hate Putin? It's like being asked whether you prefer diarrhoea or constipation.
edit: For the record- I don't like Putin but I've been paying enough attention to the situation and history of what's been going in in Ukraine leading up to the invasion to understand that it's likely not a clear cut as we are being led to believe by the media. Both sides are corrupt and it's the people that suffer :(

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

But you don’t appear to have read enough to know that from Ukraine’s point of view it didn’t ‘kick off’ this year. They have been at war since 2014 and in a struggle with Russia since some time before that. The Orange Revolution in 2004-5 and the Euromaidan revolution of 2014 were both precipitated by Russian meddling in Ukrainian politics to try to secure Moscow-friendly governments in Kyiv. The Euromaidan event is most likely what made Putin realise that more direct attempts to destabilise the country would be required if his objectives were to be realised, leading to his sponsoring of separatist militias in the Donbas and, while everyone’s attention was in the east, the annexation of Crimea.

You’re right, it isn’t as clear cut as the media portrays it, it never is. The media likes a simple narrative that can be summarised in two sentences or less. But neither is it as clear cut as the equivocation you’re offering here.

And in any case, nothing - absolutely nothing - in Ukraine’s modern history negates its government’s right to assert control within its internationally recognised borders, even without the evidence of atrocities committed by Russians within those areas it has occupied.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Ukraine was invaded in 2014 so it's understandable that it would not tolerate TV channels endorsing the invasion.

Possessing a degree of corruption does not warrant an invasion from another country. Otherwise, France could invade us over PPE procurement and we could be invading Europe over the Qatar backhanders. And Putin has had a long-term stranglehold over power in Russia in the way that Zelensky has not had. But that's by the by.

The question is did one country invade the other's territory. The answer is: Yes, Russia invaded Ukraine and therefore should withdraw its occupying forces from Ukraine's territory.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I'm not offering an equivocation ("an ambiguous or deliberately evasive statement"). I'm saying that they are both ( The Ukraine with the USAs help) pretty much as bad as each other. And civilians, as usual, are suffering .

---------- Post added at 23:05 ---------- Previous post was at 23:01 ----------

I agree. However NATO pressed forward since the fall of the Iron Curtain, despite promising not to do so. Russia is not innocent (obviously) but they were provoked. It's a shitty situation.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

That's paraphrasing Putin's argument.

Even if it were true, which it is not, as shown below, it would be no justification for Russia to invade Ukraine.

Here are some articles confirming the eastward expansion promise myth is precisely that:
https://theconversation.com/ukraine-...he-east-177085
https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...reement-again/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-matters-today

---------- Post added at 23:27 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

You can't honestly believe that one country invading another's territory and murdering and torturing that country's citizens and deliberately damaging its infrastructure makes it as bad as the country it is invading?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I'm amused how you are linking to left wing media to justify your argument. Russia was nevertheless, provoked. Despite that, I don't think that it was right for them to have invaded.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

You were equivocating, as until your reply to Andrew here I suspect you were shy of offering a justification for Russia’s aggression. Now you’re plainly setting out what you think.

I have to say I don’t know exactly which well you’ve been drinking from these past couple of years but I don’t much like what it’s done to you. You’re coming off a bit too Tucker Carlson for my taste.

There is a disturbingly 19th century mindset at work behind what you say here. Sovereign states which are members of the United Nations simply do not invade one another, without clearance from the Security Council or in response to direct aggression (which is why, for all the crap that subsequently ensued, neither the Iraq nor Afghan wars of the early 2000s were actually illegal). That’s the ‘rules-based international order’ which has basically ensured world stability since 1945 and which Putin and the Russian State has completely trampled into the mud in Ukraine.

What you’re doing here is digesting and regurgitating watered down Russian propaganda (quite unknowingly I’m sure). The effect of what you’re saying is at best the assertion of sort of moral equivalence between Russia and Ukraine. In fact I think it’s worse than that, because on the one hand you have been quite deliberately minimising Zelensky’s moral agency (by reference to a comedy routine from years ago) and that of the Ukrainian state (by misrepresenting the political upheaval it has experienced for almost 20 years now) whilst offering ‘provocation’ as the basis of a moral framework that reduces the gravity of the war crimes Putin has authorised. You would present Putin as someone misunderstood and misguided rather than what he is: a genocidal tyrant who will live in infamy.

Even the Daily Mail eventually acknowledged Hitler was a bad sort.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Stating something to be a fact does not make it one. I provided three sources for you to take your pick from in support of my argument of which only The Guardian is deemed left wing. What are your sources?

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ----------

It's timely to share Zelensky's joke he told on the Letterman show.
https://twitter.com/SabinaCiofu/stat...44390106185728

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Where did I do that? :confused:
I have repeatedly stated that I have no liking for the man. I'm sorry if I have come across as what you say. It was not my intention.
I have also already stated that the invasion was wrong.

The reason I posted what I did was to point out that before the invasion Ukraine was the second most corrupt nation in Europe and Zelensky was in charge of it. The fact that they've been invaded wouldn't have changed all that. Probably made the corruption worse if anything.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I never said you liked him. I said that in legitimising the claim of provocation you lessen the seriousness of his crimes. He is not a 19th century emperor, he leads a senior member of the United Nations in the 21st century. ‘Provocation’ is not mitigation here.

The observation that Ukraine was, and remains, a deeply troubled society is totally irrelevant to the starting, continuing and the ending of the war and, again, has no relevance beyond reducing perceptions of the country’s moral agency. These observations are being promulgated by Russian propagandists precisely because they trigger MAGA Republicans in ways designed to lessen American support for Ukraine. I strongly suspect that your favoured internet sources are the ones that have been targeted by Russians in this way.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

One of the issues is that you claim the two countries to be as bad as each other.
Do you not agree that one country which invades another country illegally makes that country worse than the country being invaded? The fact that both Ukraine and Russia suffer from corruption does not alter this fundamental fact. It's just a red herring that even Putin would blush at using.

In terms of time lines, it's worth reminding ourselves that the first invasion of Ukraine was in 2014 and Zelensky became President five years after that.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I didn't say that you said that. You said that I " would present Putin as someone misunderstood and misguided rather than what he is". I haven't said anything like that. I'm also not saying that provocation is mitigation.

---------- Post added at 13:44 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

No one is the most corrupt, the other the second most corrupt
Absolutely agree

The point I'm trying to make is that Zelensky is the head of a staggeringly corrupt country and he's now being feted as a hero. I strongly suspect he's not.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

They both suffer from corruption but the aggressive actions of Russia make it the worse country.

Zelensky took the helm at a country suffering from corruption which had been invaded five years earlier by Russia with a new mass invasion taking place a couple of years since he took power.

I think that it's unreasonable for him to turn the country's corruption around quickly and his current subsuming issue is fighting for the survival of the country. In terms of motivating the country, his wartime leadership, his ability to get resources from the West there can be few in his country that don't see him as a hero and I suspect most of the West see him as a hero. That's why he was awarded Man of the Year by Time magazine. https://time.com/person-of-the-year-...kraine-choice/

As Chris has suggested, the impression gleaned from your points you make is of someone whose expressed opinions of Zelensky and Ukraine follow Putin's playbook, albeit likely totally unknowingly.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

And yet that is what true provocation is. Simply asserting that Russia was provoked creates a context in which its subsequent actions may be viewed less critically. Phrases like ‘Russia was provoked’ and ‘Russia has legitimate security concerns’ are shared freely on the bulletin boards of the world but they are just smokescreens for the Tsarist ambitions of a tyrant. Repeating them adds to the propaganda campaign that seeks to mitigate in Russia’s favour.

You may not have intended to do this, but by digesting and repeating the commentary emanating from the sources you appear to prefer, this is what you’re doing. You may not personally be attempting to create a more sympathetic hearing for Russia but those who are ultimately behind this most certainly do. In your attempt to sound even-handed you’re acting in the service of those who wish to create (at best) a moral equivalence between Ukraine and Russia.

In terms of who invaded who, and who is trying to stop genocide, there really, really isn’t any moral equivalence at all. And right now, while people are dying in their thousands, that’s what matters, because from the Ukrainian perspective, if they stop fighting, their people’s suffering will only increase.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I hear you and understand your point. I (and many others ) do however think that Russia was provoked. That isn't Russian misinformation but obviously Putins keyboard warriors are out there pushing and embellishing that narrative as hard as possible. Just because they are doing that doesn't make the core fact false.

Let me be clear. I'm not trying to sound even handed. What Russia is doing is terrible and there is no "moral equivalence" between the two countries when it comes to the conflict.
I just don't think that Zelensky should be put on a pedestal just because his country has been invaded. He didn't turn into Snow White because of it. He is just as corrupt as the rest of them and now is being given billions with little accountability.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

Up till the invasion, I had seen no attempts to meaningfully reduce corruption. Simply business as usual.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

A less than perfect person can rise and lead a nation in need, look at Churchill. Still, your point is a poor one: whether a country is more corrupt than others and if its leader is less than you wish them to be, does not present a valid case for a sovereign country to be invaded by its neighbour.

You seem to argue that Russia is not 100% culpable here? You imply that they have a defence of being "provoked". Pure delusion ...

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I've provided links from three different sources that indicate the NATO provocation excuse which you subscribe to was Russian misinformation. Which links back up your assertion?

He is being praised because of his wartime leadership of Ukraine. No one is pretending he's faultless. He's not being given money personally as you infer; Ukraine the nation is being given weapons and economic assistance. Again, you are inadvertently following Putin's narrative.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

That's not what I'm implying at all.

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

I'm sorry but I'm not going to trawl the internet for you. Do your own homework.


I'm not saying that he's personally being given money. The corrupt regime he's running is.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Kinda sums him up, his covid rants are legendary too. :D

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

And you are insultingly assuming that I'm subscribing to Russian misinformation.....thanks for that.

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

I suggest that you look deeper into that rabbit hole than the BBCs reporting.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Merry Christmas, everyone. :)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Merry Christmas, hope you all had a great day :)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Yep. merry Christmas everyone :)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

You can only vote for Putin in Russia ... nice country not.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1672097349
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1672096834
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1672096834

https://i.gifer.com/F88a.gif

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

He’s right though, it epic. Epic in its tragi-comic delusion, that is. Anyone who follows any of the Russian media monitoring types on Twitter will already be acquainted with this sort of chat - state tv is full of it. It’s for domestic consumption and they have been steadily ramping it up as things have continually failed to go their way. Problem is the war has gone consistently so wrong for so long this is where they’ve ended up.

It’s not even the worst of it. Their is regularly discussion in Russian tv studios as to whether demonic forces have inhabited western governments and the possibility that Russia stands alone against Satan.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Unfortunately, his reply could be easily misinterpreted.

To some of his audience, epic means "very impressive, or spectacular, or awesome"..

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No need to trawl the internet for me, that's not what I'm asking. I've done my research already and provided links to my sources which are at odds with your position.

I'm just asking you to provide some evidence to back up your assertion which I would hope you have readily to hand.

---------- Post added at 00:43 ---------- Previous post was at 00:41 ----------

Yes, he's being a tad mischievous/attention-seeking here.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Perhaps, though I think there’s more than a little hysteria surrounding him now, he knows it and he enjoys winding people up.

Given that Starlink continues to support Ukraine and the system availability is being managed to deliberately prevent Russians also getting onto it, his sympathies here are actually abundantly clear to all except those who wilfully choose to see evidence of his turn to the Dark Side in everything he now says or does.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Whilst the StarLink is vital, he’s not being charitable (nor would I expect him to be).

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/e...arlink-spacex/

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Never said he was being charitable - simply that the considerable ongoing effort to get Starlink into Ukraine, and the effort to prevent it being used by Russians occupying Ukraine, is a useful indicator of where Elon Musk’s sympathies lie. Much more useful than his sniggering at an obviously bat-excreta twitter thread from one of the many unhinged Russians presently in public life.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

There was also the weird 'peace plan' he proposed which involved the formal ceding of Crimea, referendums for the occupied areas and Ukraine staying neutral. He seems to enjoy stirring the pot at least.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Probably an indication of where his financial interests lie, as opposed to sympathies.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Probably doesnt want to join the list of Russians having fatal "accidents". ;)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Funny you should say that …

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64101437

:disturbd:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

If the Russians could only get the Ukrainian Armed Forces to position themselves near windows or staircases, they might have a chance...

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

America would only plug the gap with money and more weapons.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

And the EU and the U.K.

Total barstewards, trying to help a country that’s been invaded by an aggressor who’s pledged to totally subjugate them…

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...aid-to-ukraine

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1672181322

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Not sure the rest would have the stomach to keep throwing into the bottomless pit as their populations freeze under high gas prices.

American dollars all find their way home one way or the other.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Good for the Americans, if it wasn't for their money there is a good chance Russia would have taken Ukraine by now.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I'm so pleased that Ukraine had a sympathetic US President.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Does Putin think he's Lord of the rings?

https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/12/27...ne-for-himself

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Gift-giving can create a sense of powerful largesse around the giver and obligation on the part of the receiver and being seen wearing the gift could magnify that. It’s perhaps notable that only his known lap dog, Lukashenko of Belarus, immediately put his ring on.

In a funny sort of way this actually is a power play of sorts. There’s no doubt Putin really needs these people onside now. Though in their minds there should be no doubt that in the long run their prospects for remaining in independent control of their territories is slim, if Russia gets away with its adventurism in Ukraine (though I very much doubt it will).