Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Well, that’s not really adding balance, campaigning outdoors was allowed.

You mention free-loading Bozza, not sure what’s bent about using allocated travel expenditure.

So in Labour’s case, who paid for the travel for Keir Starmer and his 15 people or more, to get to Durham, the £200 curry bill, money paid for all the alcohol at the Miners Hall event?

Yet, Boris not allowed to spend a dime, but it’s okay for Labour to, seriously?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

:D Agreed.

A short visit to the Full Fact website will show politicians of all colours repeating information they've been told is wrong.

:tu: Spot on!

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

BREAKING: Met Police concludes investigation into Downing Street lockdown breaches with 126 fines issued

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/met-polic...-issued/298304

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Key questions
- Did Johnson get just one fine?
- When is the Sue Gray Report being published?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Leave if to the police to decide whether Sir K has broken any law? At least he said he will resign if fined, unlike our glorious PM who has already been fined, likely to be fined again, and doesn't give a toss.

Tbh I'm amazed at the amount of time and resources the police are spending on these fixed penalty notices. They spend a lot less time on murder/rape/missing kid investigations ( unless the kid is young blond white female then they spend a lot of resources even if the crime was in another country).

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Wouldn’t you just hate that, Andrew?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I hope he only has the one fine - our country has been made to look ridiculous with 126 fines at No 10 as it is.

As others have noted, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom broke a law that he himself read out on a national televised address.

For the first time in this country's history, we have a law-breaker as our chief law-maker.

Johnson should resign for breaking his own law.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Early reports are saying there are no further fines for the prime minister or her husband.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

If so he gets a fine for the weakest of the events, weird.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

CONFIRMED No further fines for Boris.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

And the address of government is the worst law breaking address in the country, ridiculous indeed

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Are you sure you’ve worded that right?

So houses with murderers, rapists and other serious crimes are not the worst law breaking addresses then?

I thought 25 Cromwell Street was one of the worst addresses, no longer exists because it was torn down. Fred West ring a bell?

And even so, let’s get some perspective, receiving a birthday cake, to killing 30+ women and girls, one of them his own daughter.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

And the answer is yes just the one.

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------

There's a lot of cake eaten in my house,i must be an absolute rotter



i wonder if this song will be back in the charts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvyOqKhKWQ4

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Carrie Johnson has no more fines.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...d5096bf59fdcdf

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Anyone seen her lately? Saw him voting with the dog for the obligatory photo op the other week.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Yes you're right I should have said, worst law breaking address for this particular law, that they wrote, happy to clarify

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think the Met's decision today should finally dampen the hopes of the Daily Mail and anyone else expecting to see a fine head in Starmer's direction.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Why? As far as I can see, they have only drawn a line under their investigations around Downing Street.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I'm thinking that clearly the police are understandably working to a strong evidence level if Johnson just received one fine. Something like 1 fine for every 20 gatherings or something similar?

If he'd received a fine for every event then I think the chances of Starmer being fined would be a lot higher.

I know it's different police force but I'm sure the two forces will speak for consistency.

I have no skin in the game on this apart from predicting that Starmer won't get fined. If he does I won't lose any sleep over it.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

it's not even the Met investigating Starmer

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I proactively addressed that point. ;)

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Only thing with this is they've given Johnson a fine for the least 'dodgy' action. The cake in the meeting room. The bring your own bottle thing seemed worse to me, although maybe he wasn't involved enough for the police to issue a fine.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Maybe politics has made me too cynical these days but the way the statement today seems to have worded is a little opaque here;

Reuters;
Daily Mail;
It's not a redundant question to ask here exactly how many fines Boris Johnson got as those statements seem to be more forward looking than back. My initial thought was the statement seems to say the investigation is now closed and no more fines would be issued which is what you would expect if the investigation was now finished.

If the first statement said 'Johnson's spokesman said police had confirmed that the prime minister did not receive any further fines', that is a different thing altogether

Maybe I am too jaded in my old age...

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

If all he did was unwittingly get ambushed with a cake between meetings, it shows this whole thing against the PM to be the nonsense that it is.

The Gray report will be interesting. This should reveal how much, if anything, the PM knew about the other goings-on.

News reports are saying this should keep his MPs on side if that’s all he got fined for.

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

And you were so sure she was having an Abba party at their flat. Do you see now why I said you should wait for the evidence? Allegations are not proof until they are tested with all the evidence.

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

Don’t see how you work that out. Boris was at back to back meetings when that cake unexpectedly arrived, so it should have been regarded overall as a work event. Starmer’s booze-up, however, was after the END of the working day, and they got sloshed, according to reports I have seen. However, they are allegations at present, so we will wait and see what the investigation reveals.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Indeed.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It's irrelevant now bojo's in the clear, he apologised for being ambushed with a cake, all's good.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

What is the point ?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I seriously doubt thats even remotely true.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It is according to the police.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

In the clear for lying to Parliament to?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I wish I lived in such a world where it was not remotely true. Sadly it's spot on.
https://inews.co.uk/news/boris-johns...lained-1570984
https://www.indy100.com/politics/bor...-pm-broken-law

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

He paid a fixed penalty notice for breaking his own law. The first UK PM to have broken the law. You don't pay an FPN if you're in the clear!

The Sue Gray Report can't be far off publication, either. ;)

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It won’t nail him, don’t get your hopes up.

Sorry to burst your bubble but technically, paying a FPN, puts you in the clear, I’ve said before, paying one removes the criminal liability laid against you. Once paid, there’s no criminal record.

And as I said earlier today, let’s get some perspective. He’s not been charged being a bloody axe murderer, the way some of you carry on in this thread. :rolleyes:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Yup, it's less likely that he will end up having to resign. A shame for the country and the Conservative Party if he doesn't.

I've not said anywhere that Johnson has a criminal record, though.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I don't know about that. Some say Tony Blair took us into an illegal war with Iraq. If true, that is far more serious.

It all depends on how you judge these things, but you are being very selective in your judgements, aren't you?

As for paying the fine, you know as well as I do that he did so to make this go away. Had he not paid the fine, this would have just dragged on even longer.

---------- Post added at 07:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 ----------

Boris has taken us out of the EU, as the electorate wanted, he dealt with Covid and was the only leader to see straight away the futility of lockdowns and the solution was a vaccine, (which he ensured would be available in record time), he's getting us through this economic crisis without plunging the country into unnecessary catastrophic debt, he's got his sights on ensuring that the levelling up programme at last embraces those forgotten red wall areas that Labour has taken for granted for so long.... Why would you say that?

Oh, sorry, I forgot, you support the other side and see Boris as a major electoral threat that you can only counter by besmirching his character.

Silly me.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Yes I doubt it’s the first time. We probably just don’t know who has broken the law because of Parliament privileges

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I bet he's the only one to be fined for being in the same room as a cake in a Tupperware box.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

First of all, I would like to start on a positive note and begin by agreeing with you; well, at least the bits in bold at the beginning an end of your post! :D

It's the stuff in the middle that I have an issue with. ;)

Firstly, I'm not making any judgments, I've linked to two separate sources that state that Johnson is the first sitting PM to have broken the law. There are many more media sources stating this as well. (And despite their history, both sources have different owners.)

Secondly, it really doesn't matter how much you admire Johnson and believe he can do no wrong - the electorate thinks differently. That's partly why Conservative supporters like Seph want him to step down as they can see a Pickfords van outside No. 10 in 2025 if he remains in power.

However, a lot of your statements listing Johnson's successes are clearly pipe dreams. For example, national debt interest payments are at a record £70bn. The Northern Ireland Assembly is not functioning due to the cack-handed Brexit deal Johnson signed. And the red wall seats are worse off since Johnson became PM.

I don't have loyalty to any political party and have voted for them all.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

That well known legal barometer of supposition.

On a separate note Dominic Raab playing a strong game here in the bid to succeed the hapless Boris.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ed-covid-rules

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

He needs the boot. The government currently have the power of laughing in the publics faces. It is time to regain control and get these jokers out.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Sue Gray Report looking like next week and may name law-breakers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61520212

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

He ate cake for his birthday. Big deal.

He’s not the one who’s laughing. Dominic Cummings is. And he laughs even louder when he sees people falling for his mischief-making.

My advice - when the Sue Gray report is published, possibly next week, take a good look at exactly what happened. What did Boris actually do himself that apparently broke the rules?

Then stand back and reconsider.

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------

I’ll just comment on this as to comment on the first part of your post will just send this argument into another circle.

Of course national debt has increased to £70bn. What did you expect with all the help he and the Chancellor gave to people to help them to avoid the worst economic impacts of the lockdowns and other emergency measures introduced? That doesn’t mean we have to keep over-spending forever more. There has to be a limit, unless of course you’re a Leftie.

As for the NI Assembly, you know as well as I do, because we’ve already had this debate, that it is the EU’s bureaucratic way of interpreting the Protocol that makes it unworkable.

The red wall population, like the rest of the Uk, are worse off mainly because of Russia’s war with Ukraine.

When people stand back at the next election, and look at how Boris has navigated through all of this, I don’t think they will be voting with cake in mind, but for you, this is an obsession.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The only person more spineless than Johnson is OB in this thread.

Compare and contrast with Seph who at least wants a Conservative leader worthy of looking up to. A liar. Completely untrustworthy. Unworthy of the office of which he holds forever diminishing the UK sphere of influence and credibility.

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------

To… have a plan?

Your continual portrayal of Government as a completely passive actor unable to intervene. The unfortunate victim of circumstances upon which it has no control is simply laughable.

The portrayal of spending as a “leftie” principle is as obnoxious as it is ludicrous. It’s been proven time and again you can’t save your way out of a recession and - as living standards are falling at the highest rate for 40 years - we have a Government devoid of leadership, devoid of authority and completely devoid of ideas.

---------- Post added at 12:53 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

:D:D:D

Nothing to do with a decade of failed macroeconomic policy or Brexit, of course.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I don’t call standing up against all the sanctimonious rubbish that people are spouting on about on this forum as ‘spineless’. It takes some courage to stand up to bullying behaviour such as is frequently demonstrated here.

I respect Seph’s opinion - he’s not a fan of Boris either - but I profoundly disagree with people who are deliberately hyping this up out of all proportion just because they see Boris as a threat to their left wing ‘sensitivities’ (or should I say to Labour’s chances of winning the next election).

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 ----------

It’s to do with the 2010 recession sparked by Labour’s failure to bolster the economy during the good times and the austerity that necessarily followed, Covid and the Ukraine war.

Without those last two events, the benefits of Boris’s manifesto promises would be starting to be clear by now.

---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

You are so hilarious, jfman! You really ought to be on the stage.

However, I must ask you…what exactly is Starmer’s plan?

I know - he’ll have a ponder with his mates over a beer after work in the hope that someone can come up with something to replace hindsight.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

So it’s the Labour Government’s fault for the global financial crisis of 2008 but this Government are a victim of circumstance at every turn.

Utterly utterly laughable, OB. So ridiculous it’d be impossible to parody.

The fact the UK Labour Party are marketing themselves as slightly less shit than the Tories is irrelevant to the fact Johnson is leading the party and the country in a car crash manner.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The crash itself, of course, was not Labour’s fault. But spending all the money during the good times while failing to put anything away for the bad times was reckless. It took the austerity measures to put us towards where we should have been, and just as well, otherwise the Treasury would not have been able to make all those payouts in respect of the Covid measures.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

:D

Pray, tell, OB just where in the national accounts does it show savings in austerity paid for Covid financial support given every single year since austerity began the national debt as went up as a percentage of GDP?

They really pulled the wool over your eyes with the pretence that a national budget and a household budget are the same didn’t they?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

https://news.sky.com/story/sue-gray-...tands-12617829

Now the Metropolitan Police has reported, a reminder that a Parliamentary investigation begins now into whether whether Johnson misled MPs over Partygate.
https://news.sky.com/story/downing-s...ygate-12595185

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Talking of misleading parliament, didn’t curry and beer organiser, Starmer mislead parliament when he was forced to backtrack on accusations made in the House of Commons, about Johnson and the BBC?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2062341.html

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Hate has no sell by date;)

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Looks like her boss has been to see her https://news.sky.com/story/sue-gray-...tands-12617829

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

He commissioned the report, has asked for full transparency, just another desperate media ploy by idiots trying to oust the PM. I don’t really think any report will be detrimental to Johnson’s premiership, because lurking in the background is a beer and curry organiser, potentially also facing a fine.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It's from his side that they're saying he simply asked for full transparency. Since Johnson isn't exactly known for his honesty that'll be treated with caution.

Besides the wisest thing to do with an Independent report is to avoid secret meetings with who you tasked to make it. It's going to raise eyebrows even if it was innocent.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

If he lies to his wives, lies (and denies) about his children, lies in his leadership campaign, lies in the party manifesto, lies to Parliament, lies to our international partners - it's quite astonishing that the people who think we are better off without Johnson are the idiots.

A Tory leader of even moderate competence, with limited credibility, right now would surely be better to lead us through the cost of living crisis?

They're not a football team - the personal affinity some seem to have for Johnson (especially given his personal flaws outlined in sentence one) is quite astonishing. What makes people believe he will lie to everyone else but not them?

This is the man that had two versions of the story ready to go in favour of remaining and leaving the EU until he decided which was the most politically expedient for his career aspirations.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

FROM HERE ;)

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Well, we have a leader of the opposition struggling with honesty too, so Labour’s ploy to stoke this up as a scandal, is a bit pathetic.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Who cares what Labour are doing, they're always going to oppose the Government, just as the Tories will always say Labour can't govern.

We can form our own opinion on it (personally I don't really care, Gray is a civil servant so is unlikely to thrown any one person under the bus).

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

In fairness to Johnson supporters - he leaves them with an extremely limited set of issues to work with. Starmer had a beer and a curry is about all they have going for them.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

You do like twisting things, don’t you, jfman? It has been explained many times before that he wrote one article for and one against to compare the arguments of both sides, and it helped him to make the correct decision.

Sorry to destroy the illusion you were trying to trick people into believing, but it is always wise to seek the truth. :D

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

Yes, and as I pointed out earlier, Starmer’s offence is graver than Boris’s, because this beer event was after work, not during work as BJ’s was.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Yes, I often write newspaper articles when weighing up both sides of an argument the night before publication. It's not like the debate hadn't been raging for years within his own party. He's got you with his lies hook, line and sinker. You're absolutely delusional.

:D:D:D

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I care what Labour are doing. They are suppose to hold this government to account and they can’t effectively do that, especially with a leader currently under criminal investigation & when they themselves, have acted just as shady.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Did the fact Starmer is under criminal investigation, pass your usual narrow mindedness? :dozey: :dunce:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Not particularly, Mick. As I've said it's the only straw you have to clutch at so it's no surprise to see you clinging for dear life. I'd quite happily see Starmer go regardless of whether he gets fined or not - I don't think he's very good. But that's irrelevant to the subject at hand.

On what issues do you think the Labour Party should hold the Government to account in particular? I'm not sure I recall you criticising them for anything.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Get a grip, this isn’t a life and death situation, it’s a debate on a forum, there is no clutching, no straws. I’m definitely not having you come along and just dismiss Starmer being under criminal investigation, as just a “straw”, when the leader of the opposition could end up having to resign if he gets a fine, if we’re talking tubular structures, it’s equivalent to the channel tunnel.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I agree but the point is Starmer being under investigation isn't that relevant to my criticism of Johnson. I said Starmer should resign if he is fined and I think Johnson should have resigned for the same reasons (and lying to Parliament).

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Indeed, it's whataboutery. It's also - at this stage - a hypothetical. Unlike with Johnson who has been fined.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I don’t think either of them should resign, a stupid law was created for essentially, what was a bad cold, bad colds can still kill, we don’t make stupid laws that infringe on our freedoms, to contain and stop the spread of said bad colds.

Johnson is a liar, I’ve never disputed this and I have also stated, he’s not my choice for PM. I wouldn’t care if he went tomorrow.

But equally, Starmer is also a liar and terrible one at that. But the lying and the scheming, attempt to cover up the shenanigans at Miners hall, it’s not good enough at all from Labour.

---------- Post added at 16:56 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Sod off with the whataboutery bullshit, when it was all hypothetical for Johnson, Starmer insisted Johnson should resign, Starmer will only go now, if he is fined, it’s double standards and ridiculous hypocrisy from the likes of you. :rolleyes:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

So if Starmer is cleared I presume your condemnation will then only go in one direction towards Johnson? On the basis of the guilt of one and innocence of the other?

Whether Starmer should have pre-judged the inquiry into Johnson or not is a trivial matter by comparison. It was clear political opportunism, and left him open to accusations of hypocrisy, but not only is it neither life nor death it's also not a crime. If we want to hold our politicians to a higher standard than that so be it - but there's plenty on the Government benches that can be accused very easily. Starting off with the expenses claims of every one who claims the poor should get better at cooking.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Like to divert much don’t you?

I know you’re referring to Lee Anderson’s remarks, not sure what this has to do with Partygate?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

About the same as the accusation against Starmer has to do with Johnson's guilt. Nothing.

We either advocate holding all politicians to a higher standard or we don't, and if we don't it's just continued finger pointing and blindly following one party like a football team. When they get round to sacking the manager we will just back the next guy regardless and criticise the opposition.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Wrong. The accusations against Starmer & Labour has a lot to do with the title of this topic and it’s staying this way.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

So, if (and I know it’s an if, might even be a when) Starmer does get fined, then it’s no longer whataboutery - it is indeed hypothetical.

But when Johnson was only being investigated, and his fine was hypothetical, Starmer called for his resignation.

By Starmers own self standard, he should resign.

He won’t, I don’t think he should, but by his own standard…..his….no one else’s…..his own demands…..he should have already gone.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Spot on. (He shouldn’t go, but he set the precedent).

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Reminder, this was from back in Jan… Johnson, not been fined yet…. Johnson was exactly where Starmer is now, under criminal investigation, why doesn’t the month of May Starmer, take heed of his own advice from January Starmer?…..

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1652730394

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

So nobody thinks Starmer should resign?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Actually, no.

Because it’s stupid.

But Starmer wanted Johnson to resign over it, equally as stupid.

The only point being being made, is that by his ( and no one else’s) standard, he should resign.

Hope that helps.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

That’s a relief I almost thought him having a beer and a curry was almost equivalent to Johnson being a liar and a criminal.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Liar……….probably

Criminal……..nope.

Equivalence…………time dependant.

Starmer May walk away unimpeached, he may not.

If he doesn’t your recent comments won’t age well.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

More bullshit you speak. You’re no better than any liar, the only part you got right about Johnson.

If someone doesn’t have a criminal record, can they be labelled a criminal?

Absolutely not, a Fixed penalty notice does not constitute a criminal conviction.

For the umpteenth time, a FPN removes any criminal liabilities, once paid. I’d be careful, you could be sued for libel & defamation of character, labelling someone a criminal, when they aren’t & have no official record of being such.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

And “if” he does walk away unimpeached they will age well, leaving Johnson supporters with nothing to accuse him of bar (ironically) political opportunism.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

If he does then the people will know that it's ok to break the law because sir beer has led the way, it's ok to lead the police to believe certain people weren't involved and conveniently blur the facts about food and drink ........

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

My best wishes to career criminals who lead off their police interviews with “ah but Starmer!!!”.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Far fetched rubbish. Breaches of the Coronavirus restrictions, doesn’t equate to being arrested and interviewed by Police, breachers get sent questionnaires, and it’s taken from there as to any decision to issue a fine. You really do need to get this out of your head, breaking Covid laws, doesn’t constitute criminality, they’re not “career criminals” either. :dunce:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think when jfman is talking about career criminals here, he's referencing those members of society who make their day-to-day living from crime. Not those politicians and civil servants in receipt of one or more FPNs from breaking Covid regulations.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

They can get a qualified beerister like sir beer to defend them.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

If you look at the post and the quote it’s quite clear I was referring to papa’s assertion that people will view it as okay to break the law. It was also implied in his post that people would perceive it as okay to mislead the police.

By people I took him to mean the public as a whole.

You seem hung up on the distinction between breaking the law and a criminal record. I really hope that’s not the hill Boris’s supporters choose to die on if/when Starmer as cleared and if the Gray report is as damning as being briefed to the press.

It’ll be political suicide with Raab, Hunt, Truss and others waiting in the wings bring the end to Boris career sooner rather than later.

If helpful to stop the discussion being sidetracked every time I’ll refer to Boris breaking the law, but not as a “criminal”.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

"Alexa, show me what disdain for those who pay your salary looks like."
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/pa...e-gray-1643577

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

No matter what the report says, Johnson isn’t facing any more fines, it would have been the additional fines that buried Johnson, Gray report cannot make it sound any more law breaking than those that want it to be.

And because of the criminal investigation lingering on, under Labour and Starmer, there is not much ammunition the ineffective Labour team can throw at them that will stick, Tory MPs will just counter Labour with the Miners Hall event.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 ----------

Seriously?

Makes absolutely no sense what he said. So hardened criminals sat in a police interview room, suddenly muster up stuff from the political world?

They’ll have been far too disengaged from society to follow politics, they will have been far too busy running their criminal enterprises, to raise nonsense about Starmer.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

[COLOR="Blue"]You could be tempted into thinking Zahawi had been there at wherever meeting took place. He could have said he wasn’t at any such meeting but didn’t..
/COLOR]

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It makes perfect sense in the context of the post I was replying to.

And yes, I doubt very much anyone would raise it, or it be relevant if they had. My best wishes were entirely sarcastic.