Re: Coronavirus
 

Any possible cure will come when we have a workable vaccine end of...

Re: Coronavirus
 

And if they didn't know they were carriers?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ignorance is no defense ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

The EU and anything like that should be irrelevant. The virus doesn't respect borders so neither should treatment. It's to the advantage of both the EU members and non-members to stop spread. If you've contained things in your country you now help contain it elsewhere so it doesn't come back to your country.

It's why we should help other nations now, especially those that can't afford "stuff" and often have large populations in very high density quarters. (Generations living in one single room - try self isolating there) People who earn daily what they need daily.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You’ve got absolutely no evidence to support your hunch that these measures are having no effect on the outcome. Indeed, we’ve the entire capitalist system betting billions that it will.

Herd immunity is just Darwinism. You’re proposing to let people die to everyone left over doesn’t have the disease. We could extend that principle to plenty of illnesses - yet don’t.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A vaccine isn't a cure. At the population scale, it is a means of artificially inducing herd immunity. Herd immunity is the only way to keep a virus from moving freely through a population.

We can't say for sure that natural herd immunity will be possible with this Coronavirus; it might be susceptible to rapid mutation, thereby bypassing our acquired immune response, or it may be of a type that only provokes a weak and not very persistent immune response in humans. If either of those turns out to be the case, then an ongoing vaccination programme will be necessary, probably going on for years until we can induce immunity to new strains almost as fast as the virus can produce them.

On the other hand, we still do not yet have sufficient data to know if those things will happen. It is quite possible that we could get herd immunity within a year or two.

In any case, neither herd immunity nor a vaccine is a cure.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Health care like the NHS will always have limits on what it can afford. Doctors will always have to make choices about who gets the limited treatment and when. COVID-19 is highlighting this but instead of "fighting" over a piece of equipment for patient A with condition X or patient B with condition Y it's lots of patients all at the same time with condition COVID-19. Individually it's terrible when patient A is "Joe Bloggs" and terrible for the individuals making the decisions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Captain Moore is currently just short of £13 million. :clap: :clap: :clap:

More bravery and gumption in that man than in the whole of Parliament.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's never been successfully achieved with uncontrolled spread of a live virus through a population.

Re: Coronavirus
 

People are calling for him to get a knighthood.

I agree, he's cheered the country up, and I can see it going up and up, dare I say £50 million.

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------


My mother didn't know she had it, we where making plans before lockdown and both my parents stay at home.

But other than Doctors/hospital appointments she only did the tesco shop with me.

She had no symptoms.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Herd immunity via viral infection has obviously happened though a population before, it's what happened before vaccines. It's why we don't all drop dead from all the viruses out there in the world, it's why the normal flu doesn't kill us all, it's why such viruses did kill people in the Americas when colonialists arrived.

It's why people used to have Pox Parties to give children the illnesses now that were deadlier in adults.

Remember the way our immune system works is even if there are different strains of a virus if they're similar enough to the previous one then it can adapt quicker. Most of us have immune systems that can detect a new strain of flu vaccine being similar to another as thus cope with it better. That's why we don't all need a flu vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Of course it has, throughout the entire human history.
Vaccines have only existed for a very small period of time.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apart from Smallpox of course..

The question is how did we manage to eradicate Smallpox? This disease had the following qualities;

• Only human to human transmission (no animals involved)
• You only spread it when pretty sick and obviously had Smallpox (no asymptomatic carriers)
• The virus was very stable and didn't mutate over time
• There was a simple vaccine available in Vaccinia/Cowpox

Smallpox was one nasty disease so governments and, more importantly, the public were SUPER motivated not to have it spread so many countries had mandatory vaccination which had a very high degree of compliance (of course, this was a long time back and a simpler time when people were more likely to do what they were told)

As the WHO approached the endgame and routine vaccination was phased out, sporadic outbreaks were tackled by very tough lockdowns and 'ring vaccination' where everyone within a certain area was vaccinated to nip outbreaks in the bud.

Unfortunately, it looks like Coronavirus can be spread by the 'walking sick', there may be animal hosts and the virus may mutate over time making things a lot more challenging

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's controlled.

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------

I should have added 'deliberate' uncontrolled. In the past yes - diseases have killed enough people that those who remain are immune. I'm not sure that's a good policy outcome though...

Re: Coronavirus
 

We were warned with swine flu and bird flu; luckily they weren't as transmissible to humans but easily could have been. It was only a matter of time before something more transmissible came along.

It's natural for people to become complacent if these things come and go and they remain unaffected, but the Govt's pandemic planning is a shambles given they had the warnings from other flu outbreaks. Indeed its own flu pandemic exercise a few years ago showed the deficiencies we now have. They did diddly squat apart from hide the report findings in case we got too scared by it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: Wales First Minister says, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the UK Government have agreed a further three week lock down extension to continue.

UK Government is yet to announce these measures. But the Wales FM, has basically outlined what is about to be announced at the 5PM Press briefing in the next 5 Minutes, in Downing Street.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Excellent announcement.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And Raab sets out the exit criteria:

1) Confident that NHS can continue to provide critical care
2) sustained and consistent fall in death rates
3) reliable data from SAGE that rate of infection is decreasing
4) testing/PPE sorted
5) confident that relaxation doesn't yield second peak

Re: Coronavirus
 

When/if this is all over, I think that there will be calls for an independent enquiry.

It was said on the news today that it looks like those of us at severe risk of complications arising from the virus are going to have to lock ourselves away for up to 18 months (when it's expected that a vaccine will have been found) :shocked:

I also heard someone put forward the idea that all those at risk of severe complications should be shielded, whilst everybody else should go about their business as usual. He believed that this would help to quell the damage being done to the economy, encourage herd immunity and allow extra funds to be diverted to help those who cannot leave their homes e.g. 100% of wages paid by the Government, extra money for those on benefits to mitigate the extra expenses that they face. This would be cheaper than paying many people 80% of their wages.

My family lost a distant cousin to the virus the other day, which is a bit too close for comfort.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The vaccine will come all too late, I'm afraid, Den.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which is why we need lockdown to continue, social distancing to be enforced and break the chains of transmission. Then have a robust system in place for testing, contact tracing and yes, despite the deniers - screening at airports.

Not just medical screening - personal details. Who are you? Where are you staying? If we need to find you in the next month how can we contact you? If you develop symptoms contact this number straight away.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Herd immunity is natural. Humans didn't invent it.

The government was very clear all along that the whole point of isolation was to slow down the virus so the NHS can cope. Did you miss that?

You have seen the rate at which the people started to come down with coronavirus. What makes you think that we can stop this in its tracks? Only a vaccine will stop it short and we are nowhere near getting that.

All those people in care homes, with no visitors allowed and not going out anywhere, are still going down like flies. That shows how impotent we really are at dealing with new viruses like this. The fact that we have managed to slow it down is a massive achievement. But it will get that 80% of the population, of that I have absolutely no doubt.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A workable vaccine might not be a cure OB when it comes but it will help considerably.

---------- Post added at 20:08 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

Listening to R4 this morning social distancing will be here probably for another 18 months or whenever the vaccine comes..

Re: Coronavirus
 

I get your sincerity on this, tweetiepie, but the government's responsibility is to its own citizens. It won't be giving away any equipment that we need for our own people to other countries until we are sure we can cope without.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------



That sounds like a plan, Richard. It would be good to know who suggested that. I said to my wife weeks ago that this was the way to go about protecting the vulnerable without ruining the economy. This should have been the plan all along.

---------- Post added at 20:25 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

That is completely unrealistic, jfman, if you are really suggesting extending a lockdown until we have a vaccine. Apart from crashing the economy, people won't stand for it. Even some vulnerable people I know are saying 12 weeks is quite bad enough and they don't want to spend their remaining days behind four brick walls.

I think you are just being provocative now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So is death, yet we do everything in our power to prevent it.

Which results in fewer deaths, despite your assertion that as yet you have provided no evidence for.

China, South Korea, Germany. Same way we stop any virus really.

Because it got in. That will be schools except rather than dying kids will take it back home to their families, their grandparents, etc.

We are impotent because we weren't prepared and didn't act quickly enough. We had a unique opportunity as an island with controlled borders to quickly identify and reduce the spread but we did not.

We have a further opportunity here to learn from other European countries that are intending to ease their restrictions and allow that to inform our decision making.

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

A frankly laughable accusation from someone who just two posts back referred to people in care homes as 'dropping like flies'. Your anecdotal evidence is of no value Old Boy. None whatsoever.

I've explained over and over how the economy can be protected. The economy will tank, as Raab correctly pointed out, with a devastating second wave of the virus.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

It's common sense.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ooh, that would be me, nice to see our junior virologist still thinks he knows better than the scientists.

All the stuff they ask anyway, if you’re not from the EU. Would that number be 111?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Had you read the article you linked to there was an effectiveness (44 out of every 100). There is no 100% effective way to stop Coronavirus, as I explained this morning, thus we require a combination of methods to get as close as we can to 100%

<removed>

Glad you are on board that it is a good idea.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But it would be helping us. If as expected things quieten down over our summer months and get worse in the southern winter, sending help there to control the virus will help us but lowering risk of reintroduction. The is a global issue and need to be dealt with as such.
The government also has a duty to businesses that employ it's citizens. To secure supplies and markets. And those businesses need to trade so need people earning, moving, spending.
---
Reading on the BBC today that some second home owners (in Wales) are claiming business rebates on their second homes. The rules let them set these homes as businesses if they are available to let for 140 days and actually let for 70 days per year. So not only are some moving to small locations to get away from virus they are also getting money from it.
---
Help some small businesses buy buying now for later delivery. For example I get guitar strings from New Tone Strings. At the moment they are operating with just one person so may not be able to get strings out as quickly as possible but if players who don't need strings now but can order now (with delivery note to that affect) it may help them keep going, pay their bills are recover quicker. There are likely other traders maybe in your area you can help. This is all part of helping the fight against COVID-19. A sort of futures market as it were.

Re: Coronavirus
 

1) We don't know that herd immunity will work as we don't know enough about the virus.

2) The virus was probably brought into care homes in one of two ways.
a) prior to lockdown by somebody asymptomatic
b) during the lockdown period by a resident being taken to hospital and contracting whilst
in hospital

The situation in care homes further exacerbated by staff having inadequate PPE which allowed transmission.

Re: Coronavirus
 

we don't but as hypothesis go, it's best one we have. I've seen no evidence that a normal healthy person can reacquire the virus.

There have been isolated cases but these were due to other immunity issues the individuals had.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here is a direct quote from the Care Home (Group) that my mother-in-law is resident in, explaining they have had two cases in two different homes (out of the 60 they own), and how they are managing it - the FB Page is an open page, so I haven't removed any details. I have put some parts in bold.

We haven't had face to face contact with Mum since early March, but we ring her every night, and once a week the Care Home staff set up a video call.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Then why did the CMO et all change their stance?

There's not enough concrete evidence as of yet to suggest that a normal healthy person cannot be reinfected.

There's quite simply too many unknowns to deviate away from the most restrictive method of protection possible.

On a side note, Letting 15,000 people into the country each week of fights without testing or forcing into quarantine is hardly going to help get our cases down either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes but the must be NO BLAME.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why?

Re: Coronavirus
 

witch hunts and should've, would've, could've arguments and finger pointing are rarely helpful.

There should be an independent enquiry, lessons learnt

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because this is something that cannot be planned for.

The best thing is to see what has gone wrong and why, then what can be done if it happens again.

If there is any blame it's to the idiots going out with a valid reason.

Sunbathing in the park or beach is not one.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------


Better put that I have.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So, there are two issues with the bolded part.

We DO plan for pandemics, and we were found to be woefully unequipped to fight against them. (last time was 2016 IIRC)

This virus was known about since mid-late January, the government could have and should have started to purchase the PPE and other equipment that was needed. They did not

The governments inactions have to a degree contributed to the +6000 deaths and countless thousands of critically ill patients that we would normally see at this time of year.

---------- Post added at 14:15 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------

Those who have died needlessly may have a separate viewpoint (of course it's emotional)

Those who are currently treating the ill and are without suitable PPE will have a different viewpoint

If the government is found to have failed to prepare for this, then blame should be apportioned and the people responsible replaced.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How would that help any of the people you mention ?

Tell me what countries were prepared for something like this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Taiwan for one

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/04/a...hnk/index.html

Also South Korea

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-state-testing

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Have to disagree with you there.

Big difference between informing on people so they can be murdered by a genocidal regime and letting the police know that people are risking other’s lives by possibly increasing the number of infectious contacts.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Every one knows who the grass is in the street,i imagine they will be dealt with in due course in the usual way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So two ?, out of 200+ ? None in Eurrope, or North/South America.

Taiwan were apparently hit badly by SARS, so still had plans in place.

No idea about South Korea, your link is behind a paywall.

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:43 ----------

If they are on their own, and/or observing distancing, then how are they increasing the number of contacts ?

We are not a police state (yet) but its a slippery slope we can easily fall down.

Re: Coronavirus
 

TVP need to brush up on the latest guidance.
"Likely to be reasonable: Exercising more than once per day"

Source: https://www.college.police.uk/What-w...ble-excuse.pdf

Re: Coronavirus
 

How do you know they were going to be on their own? Too many cases of where people are gathering together as it is. If you give certain people an inch they will take a mile, and then some.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So you're saying that we couldn't have learnt from what happened in China/Hong Kong where the virus first started to spread rapidly?

It's either ignorance, or incompetence. take your pick.

The government could and should have done more. Especially since UK hospitals were briefed on the situation in January

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Considering the regulations say that there's no limit to the amount of times someone can leave their home to exercise.

Prime example, Government says one thing actual legislation says something else. Police don't know which way to go, and err on the more draconian side of things

the latest CoP guidance just muddies the water further.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Were France, Italy, Spain, US states prepared? As an independent report from last year stated, the UK was the 2nd most prepared for a Pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We are two/three weeks behind Italy, France etc. there was still time then to step up a gear. However, that would have been short sighted.

We shouldn't have been looking at them, we should have been looking at China, As I said UK hospitals were briefed on the end of January on the probable spread and transmission rates.


The UK government on the advice of the CMO etc have

Stopped contact tracing
Waited to long to impose lockdown
Not tested arrivals into the country
Not forced arrivals into the country to self isolate for fourteen days.
Failed to provide sufficient or of adequate quality PPE to secondary care & care homes
Failed to increase testing to a suitable quantity

They have built the Nightinggales, but that's about the only thing they have got right.

---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

A quick swizz and i cant find that report, could you oblige ?

I did find this however.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ly-implemented

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, of course, the whole world is ignorance & incompetent. :rolleyes:

Ah there we go, I knew it wouldnt be long. :erm:
The favourite phrase of those who just want to attack whoever is in power.

I'm sure you would have done a much better job if you were in charge. :sleep:

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y_to_clipboard

Unbelievable, let's hope Drs and Nurses don't walk away. At the moment we're asking them to put themselves, their families and other patients at risk. There is such a thing as duty of care for any employer, the Govt are failing on this for NHS staff.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was in Hong Kong airport in January after being away on business. i SAW with my own eyes what the authorities were doing to try and stem the cases. I also had colleagues who were in bejing at the time who saw even closer what was happening. People getting temperatures checked, turned away from flights etc.

If you're telling me that governments we're not aware of what was going on in China then that should make you more concerned. Or, is it more likely that governments decided to treat it like SARS-1/MERS and thought it would never reach here.

I'm not just slating the UK government, every government in Europe and the rest of the western world should be deeply concerned by the way they've handled this. (possible exception for Germany)

Surely the whole point of debate such as this is to put forward how we would deal with a situation if we were the ones in charge?

---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:35 ----------


Nope, it's absolutely not the governments fault... they couldn't have possibly prepared for this.....

Re: Coronavirus
 

The US were until the current administration dismantled or ignored it.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinio...mn/2950848001/

Re: Coronavirus
 

That article says NHS bosses have made that decision not the government.

The NHS have taken all the PPE from the nationwide supply chain leaving others with none.

Our supplies have been seized at source including impounding containers on the dockside.

The ability of the NHS to mismanage the supply is breathtaking.

You'd have thought all those managers could be better organised.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/...ess-pandemics/

Full GHS report heree.

https://www.ghsindex.org/

Re: Coronavirus
 

The NHS bosses and the government both have some explaining to do as the UK missed three chances to join a EU scheme to bulk-buy PPE which included gowns.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

In Wales, you may only go out for exercise once a day. Elsewhere there is no limit as long as your exercise is "reasonable".

Isn't devolution great?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sorry, but attempts to blame the NHS for the Govt underfunding, and lack of preparation over the the last 10 years doesn't wash. The pandemic was coming and predicted. Try again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Try again? Are you 6 years old? :rolleyes:

If you had any clue as to what is going on you might be in a position to comment.

Your anti-government stance is as tiresome as it is predictable.

I have had care homes on the phone today in tears pleading for supplies which we cannot fulfill due to the NHS stealing all the supplies.

The NHS have somehow managed to lose/waste PPE.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seriously?

You don't think the normal day to day usage, plus nearly 20,000 COVID-19 patients may be upping the burn rate a bit?

Trying to blame nurses and doctors seems a bit off.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Mrs K is a staff nurse in a hospital (and has underlying health issues) so yes I know exactly what is going on. Maybe we should get down there and help out. We could maybe save PPE by not using it? No? Me neither, she's either mad or a saint, haven't decided yet.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't believe he mentioned Doctors & Nurses ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

There will be an inquiry for sure. Maybe two to separate out the scientific approach and another about resourcing.

I think the Government will largely be ok on how they handled the scientific advice and approach the situation. I suspect they will probably do badly when it comes to things like PPE and testing. Especially when it comes to care homes and social care generally.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly

Having taken all the PPE available in the UK the numerous managers have failed to get it to where it is needed.

That is not a government issue that is overpaid people mismanaging the resource

---------- Post added at 00:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:22 ----------

Huge respect to your wife working on when she could be off work for 12 weeks as a vulnerable person.

She will be reliant on the procurement team and distribution to ensure the front line staff have their PPE.

It is that link which is clearly broken.

Meanwhile people's loved ones are dying in care homes where there is no access to PPE at all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the problem is that it is expected that, during a world-wide shortage of PPE, and an unforeseen requirement for PPE in Care Homes (the supply requirement went from a couple of hundred Trusts to over 58,000 organisations), there would/should be enought for everyone - this is a massive shift in requirements in a time of crisis, and a complex supply chain, mostly from overseas.

Could things have been done better - probably; does it help blaming people until we know the facts - probably not.

There have been shortfalls in lots of places - an example would be in Care Homes, where the group that my mum-in-law is in got supplies of PPE early in the crisis, whilst other Care Home organisations didn't; the other care homes shouldn't be blamed for not being as forward thinking as the one mum's in, because at the beginning very few people thought it would come to this. Should all the GP Surgeries, which are in effect private businesses, be blamed for not having ordered PPE equipment earlier?

In the vast complexity of Health and Social Care, whatever the Government does, it won't be enough - review afterwards, critique constructively during, but blaming is inappropriate at this stage, imho (especially without evidence, as in the comments about NHS managers).

From the Times

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes definitely things could have been done better but you are right a contructive very wide ranging review of that there is no doubt afterwards as this was another example of muddled disjointed thinking in the link below.

https://www.ft.com/content/5f393d77-...7-416efbc575ec

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not much use unless you are an FT subscriber.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A google search for "Muddled thinking punctures plan for British ventilator" will let you read the article without subbing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Have you typed the link into Google search.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not the point.
If you provide a link, it needs to work, not require google searches.

Re: Coronavirus
 

JustGiving makes a profit from donations to people like Tom Moore. 5%, 10% or 15%!

And all payments processed through JustGiving are still be subject to standard card processing fees of 1.9% plus 20p.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/15/justg...iser-12561876/

Virgin Money Giving, another popular online platform for donating to charity, charges a 2% platform fee and 2.5% payment processing fee, which the donor can choose to cover. If not, the charity will pick up the tab.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...t-has-profited

Re: Coronavirus
 

If it is true then that is quite a sum as the latest figure is about £23 million which this wonderful man raised.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Care homes have always had a PPE requirement covered quite adequately by a network of suppliers. Only now with supplies being stolen en route is there an issue.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just about every advert on tv lately is a charity asking for donations,i never realised there were so many.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is that the one with the cartoon character that looks suspiciously like Corbyn?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

”stolen"?
Do you mean this? https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...als-say-bosses

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Sunday Times has a pretty brutal item about the Governments failings in February: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ster-hq3b9tlgh http://archive.vn/ofnfS

- Calls to stock up on PPE were ignored
- Boris Johnson skipped five Cobra meetings
- Warnings from SAGE and other scientists about the danger of the virus were ignored

Some parts:

The article frequently states that Johnson was not around for Cobra meetings, SAGE meetings and Cabinet meetings.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Very damning, more so from a pro-Conservative paper.
Would be interesting to understand the reasons for this. Is it because Johnson is not into detail and meetings? Was it because the Government had little bandwidth as it was focused on Brexit?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hold the government to account, yes.

Investigate were things went wrong and were “mistakes” were made, yes.

Even, when it’s over, investigate if there was culpable negligence, yes.

But also appreciate what they are trying to do, what they are up against, and what they have done.

Support what they are trying to do during this crisis so we can get through it, and have a country and economy when we come out of it.

Also the media need to take a good hard look at themselves as some of the reports, from Sky and the BBC, have been misleading and sensationalist and not helpful.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I suppose all the supermarket bosses are at fault for not stocking up on supplies ready for the insane panic buying. They should have had more toilet rolls ready ....

Re: Coronavirus
 

The point is there seems to have been ample warning and a period of a month to six weeks were the alarm bells were ringing at the PM was not attending various meetings, PPE was not being stocked up and even being sent to China despite the NHS requesting it. The Government is saying now how quickly they're trying to get resources, why not start two months ago when the NHS raised the threat level?

Re: Coronavirus
 

They didn't send existing toilet rolls to China or ignore advice to order more toilet rolls though?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think they've done well in some aspects as the disaster took hold but those missing months will be the focus of that investigation when things settle down. It appears the Government did little until Italy raised alarm bells. The article is especially damning of Johnson's many absences from meetings where this was discussed as well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A Cobra meeting is just a meeting coordinating different departments. If an issue is raised then it has to be investigated by the department(s) and a potential response can then be decided. If is becomes apparent during the course of a meeting that a particular thing needs doing immediately, then that can be reported to the PM immediately. The different ministers and departments would go away and formulate plans. That is THEIR job. The PM wouldn't need to be there for those stages.



Which country that has been affected in a major way has had enough PPE?
Japan has had only 200+ deaths so far, yet....
Link
Just more of the never-ending nonsense.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Sunday Times is reporting that schools will open in three weeks' time
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/stat...097024/photo/1

Good article on planning for the return here
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham...tage-exit-plan

Re: Coronavirus
 

Education secretary has basically rubbished that Sunday Times report about Schools. They will open when the science says they should open, he says.

Re: Coronavirus
 

will parents rush to send the kids back to school when they reopen?

Re: Coronavirus
 

A Cobra meeting is not simply a meeting co-ordinating different departments. Nor is it a meeting for people to take away woolly investigations and consider potential decisions.

It's about reacting quickly by having all the key decision-makers together.
"The point is to have the important officials in the same place, so quick, decisive action can be taken."
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/cobra-me...t-stand-508755

They're usually chaired by the PM:
"The Prime Minister will usually chair Cobra meetings, and tends to always do so if the crisis at hand is more severe. https://metro.co.uk/2018/03/07/cobra...9/?ito=cbshare
Just to make that clear "The Prime Minister will usually chair the meetings."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/316037...cobra-meaning/

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------

At the drop of a hat in many cases. But if the Education Secretary has said they won't re-open soon, then it's all a bit, uhm, academic. :D:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I mean, it wasn't actually classed as a pandemic until march 11th, two weeks before the UK went into lockdown. At that point, china was reporting a pause in infections, and Italy had 10000 cases. I think those 2 weeks where we appeared to not do much (who know what was going on behind the scenes) will be at question. Also I suspect as this country is mainly focused on the financial sector and relies on importing manufactured goods, those products became increasingly difficult to acquire as each country either went into lockdown or used up all their own manufacturing lines to produce equipment for themselves.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As I understand it, there has been an ICU bed and ventilation for everyone that has needed it.

The only meaningful thing they could have done was introduce lockdown/ social distancing earlier, let’s not forget when social distancing was first requested the great British public ignored them.

---------- Post added at 10:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------

I will.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Usually = not always..
Key decision makers = different departments.
9th March, ie before nonsense agenda.
After any discussion the different departments would then go off and draw up plans and proposals. This situation is very different from many others in that any response takes a bit of planning.
There is more of an immediacy and simple types of response to those other things. Eg the Financial package of support won't have been quick and easy to sort out.