Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No judges are the same ,do pay attention young man ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But it was you that was using Iran as a example.;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Not sure what your point is?

The highest Law Officer in the U.K. commends our judges’ excellence and impartiality, states he has total confidence in their independence, and you compare that statement with Iran and it’s judges - so?

Anyhoo, BJ says no to NF.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49665789

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Correct - You have 2 out of 3 cases, saying Boris Proroguing Parliament was lawful and a Scottish Court saying not -, you got a former Supreme Court Justice, Lord Sumption saying, it's not unlawful, who's right...?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

supreme court sitting on Tuesday to decide

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The Scottish court found him guilty of being an English Tory, what a surprise ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

And you think that is being political?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They'll side with the Government and lower courts (British) - this is not a territory for the courts to enter for Judicial Review, including The Supreme Court. There is no statute, no other law that says Parliament has to sit in constant session. The Government of the day can Prorogue Parliament for any reason, the purpose of prorogation is not limited to preparing for the Queen's speech. Doesn't matter if it's a good or bad reason, doesn't matter if it's for political advantage, it's not illegal.*

* As per High Court ruling last week in Gina Miller's case.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The judiciary isn't a democratic organisation driven by a Meat Loaf song though. 2 out of 3 ain't good in this case.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Lord Sumption also thinks we should have another Referendum, and that BJ is putting forward fanatical ideas and is surrounded by fanatics.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...e-of-a-fanatic

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Well no one is right all of the time even old judges drop the ball sometimes.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I knew what I voted for in 2016 I'm sick to the back teeth of these nobodys making comment like people had just come out of a cave to vote.

The bank of england has even changed its tune from the end of mankind as we know it to well actually I think we can sleep at night knowing we are going to be ok.

Another referendum wouldn't decide the outcome because we don't 100% know the outcome either way only that being more informed in 2019 shows actually the results are showing we won't actually be that bad.

Even the EU is ready for any outcome so the only people holding the UK back now are the MP's.

Corbyn himself doesn't even have a plan

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

In fairness most came out their housing estate flats to vote against out their Polish neighbours.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I never asked for Sumptions political aspirations or ideals, yeah, he is a Remainer, but your post holds no bearing on my legal basis of opinion and point at all.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

that the problem no one has a plan

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

We should have found out about the deal before having a referendum then we could have decided the pros and cons... I suppose the outcome would still have been the same.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

There has been no plan for three years plus and still the omnishambles continues unabated...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

exactly Den

yellowhammer document released

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ptions_CDL.pdf

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yellowhammer documents published. It's not good: https://twitter.com/alexwickham/stat...57735295623168

This is a Government document that they didn't want to publish.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Obviously made up propaganda, cunningly withheld, to be released with an air of authenticity later on.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Rosamund Urwin

@RosamundUrwin
· 2m
What's different about the new Yellowhammer document that the government has just published compared with the one I got hold of last month? The heading.
What did the version I had say? BASE SCENARIO
Now what does the new one say? HMG Reasonable Worst Case Planning Assumptions


the one than did leak story of yellowhammer

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The Bank of England has upgraded its forecasts because the leave date has changed. Business is now a lot more prepared for a Brexit at the end of October 2019 than a Brexit at the end of March or earlier.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I thought it was in the papers not so long ago.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They said the leaked documents were old versions - it would appear that they were economical with the truth

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Well, we now know one good reason why Cummings and BoJo prorogued Parliament. ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

and we know why they changed the heading on it

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Which goes back to the start that remainers are still stuck in 2016.... Leave have moved on from that,

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Historian David Starkey, just now on LBC, new title for Lib UnDemocrats just now...

“Liberal perhaps, Democrats, Not!”

Couldn’t agree more.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Looks like from those documents, we need to be economical with more than just the truth. Medicines, electricity and fresh food being just three such things.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Vote Leave backers, Johnson donors and Rees-Mogg’s investment firm have taken up £8bn in short positions on the pound.

Backing Britain to succeed. :erm:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Doesn't matter Mick, the usual case with 'these people' is to ignore any result they don't like and keep going until they get a result they call a victory.

You know, that's exactly the type of comment I'd expect from an arrogant uneducated pleb. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Boris had a plan, the only plan that will work against the EU, but you lot scuppered that by showing just how far you'll go to get your own way . . .

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

"We want Parliamentary Sovereignty and our Courts to decide!!"

"No, not that way!!"

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If that's aimed at me, my opinion of courts and 'justice' has, for a long long time, been unprintable.

I've also had that opinion of Parliament and its members, but, much to my shame and embarrassment, decided to place my trust in them to carry out something which they promised to do.

Second hand car salesman have a better integrity rating

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No leave voters were from council estates? None that were worried about freedom of movement?

Exactly the level of ignorance I’d expect I suppose...

---------- Post added at 01:15 ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 ----------

Brexit at all costs, regardless of consequence.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Stop being Antagonistic Hugh - It's also misleading nonsense to say the least put in that context.Consequence is Irrelevant - Brexit was decided by Democracy - it won the vote, so it must be enacted, if it some how does not work and there has been Saboteurs from the get go it has to be said, we should be able to decide our fate but the vote to leave must be respected first, your side lost.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You seem to think I feel much more strongly about remain than I actually do. We all lose in the event of a poorly planned no deal scenario, unless of course you are involved in shorting the pound to the tune of £8bn - but I'm going to guess most of the forum aren't.

To some extent I agree we should decide our fate - so doing this by an arbitrary two year timeframe laid down by the EU in order to make it more challenging seems pointless.

You however know that, due to criminality and corruption, any delay puts Brexit at risk. So it just happen now. At all costs. Or you lose.

No deal threatens the health, prosperity and even the very existence of the United Kingdom.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No Deal Brexit is not the outcome I wish for, we should aim for a good deal, but thanks to pathetic Remainer MPs, taking No deal off the table, a good deal is not entirely possible.

Any one with good business incentive should know, walking away from a deal is a tool for proper negotiating outlook.

The new legislation which compels Boris Johnson to ask for an Extension is an abuse of the legislature, rushed through both houses without normal scrutiny. It's an absurd law, that says something must be done by a certain time by the Prime Minister. However, as MP Bill Cash points out the A50 Act is still a Statute and that the law says, we leave without a deal, if no deal is agreed, you have two conflicting laws, a law that says one thing should happen and another commanding one person, must seek an extention.

I say it's an abuse of the legislature because of it's expedited passage through both houses, the fact that it's not a law absolutely no one else in the UK has to follow or abide by.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

A good deal is possible if Boris calls a GE and wins convincingly. Parliament is taken out the equation altogether.

Assuming Boris is genuine of course.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Parliament said 'no' to the deal put forward by May. The EU liked the deal (no surprise there) and have stated they will not renegotiate further on that one.

Any new deal offered to the EU would have to be better than the deal May came up with, or presumably Parliament would say No again.
The EU would, quite likely, be somewhat reluctant to agree terms that were less favourable to them than the previous deal was.

Everybody and his dog can come up with a deal, getting all parties to agree with it is an entirely different matter, and that includes 'no deal' too.

No deal is, and always has been, the default option if nothing can be settled within a certain time frame . . . which has already passed, and will pass again.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But Carth the EU will give us a better deal, after a general election returns Boris, now they know we are serious? Or is that another vote leave myth?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Brexit LIVE: Boris WINS! No deal legal challenge dismissed in Belfast court - huge boost


https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...n-yellowhammer

BORIS JOHNSON has received a huge Brexit boost after a Northern Ireland judge dismissed a case which argued the Government's Brexit strategy will damage the Northern Ireland peace process.


expect another money wasting appeal.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Wherein this mirrors the High Court ruling in London last week with Gina Miller:

There is no legal test this case can be compared with, because there is no law or statute that says Parliament must permanently sit in session and that it can be prorogued for any reason or no reason at all. The Scottish court ruling yesterday, holds no basis in law, Johnsons advice cannot be ruled unlawful because there is no such law (In Britain anyway) !

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Remember Scottish Law is different to that of England.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yea it's plain that it's wrong ;)


probably fueled by buckfast and Nationalism.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Remember Scottish law only applies in Scotland so it has no power to rule on prorogation of Westminster parliament.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I don't know how it works. Just pointing out how two different courts could both come up with different judgements.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

By that argument, neither does the Northern Irish court.

Westminster and Parliament are for the UK, so all legal jurisdictions within the UK have to be able to feed into UK wide law and effects of that.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

There is no separate Northern Irish law. Nice try Ben.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of..._legal_systems

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris has asked for an election twice now and Corbyn and his lot have voted against it on both occasions. Did you miss that?

---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

You shouldn't forget that the remainers who are trying to stop Brexit simply don't want to leave, with or without a deal. That is precisely why they are trying to sabotage our bargaining chips.

We would have had this in the bag by now if this undemocratic lot hadn't got in the way.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I may as well post this here, the other thread is still closed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49674176


I confess not to understand the negative interest stuff, but pretty darn sure that 'buying debt' didn't go so well a few years ago :rolleyes:

Propping up failing economies seems to be the in thing, pity we're still part of it

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

What it's telling you, along with Trump's trade wars and Boris and his bold spending plans, that capitalism is on its knees.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Theres a big difference between debt and bad debt - the 2008 collapse was (mostly) due to bad debt being hidden in CDOs.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...548e161ef78e78
Screen cap of article attached.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So only 'favoured' rebels then !? If they have any self respect, they'll tell the party to 'do one'.

Bozza is desperate for votes, wonder why? Is he about to knife the DUP?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, that's when the whole island of Ireland was part of the United Kingdom and covered by English law. However:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_law

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Pot,kettle,black..

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, the Supreme Court's jurisdiction is the UK, so affects all three law areas within the UK.

The recent rulings were in the High Court in Northern Ireland, the Court of Session in Scotland, and the High Court for England and Wales. Each of those are the highest court within their own law area and as far as I understand it have equal legal standing to one another.

You can't say that the Scottish ruling only applies to Scotland and then say the Northern Ireland ruling can apply to Westminster and Parliament and across the UK.

So it will be the Supreme Court that now has to decide due to the different rulings, and I hope everyone agrees with our highest court whichever way it falls, as dragging doubt of law into Brexit shouldn't be anything anybody wants.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

where have you been for the last few months? :D ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Using the Judiciary to test legal standards against a Royal Prerogative power is unconstitutional, but we do not have a written constitution, therein, we are in untested times. We should not be bringing such matters in to the political arena.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I haven't read the judgement, but if suspending parliament is "unlawful" what law has been broken?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

It's here in our unwritten constitution

A .......................................
B.............................................
C.................................................

:)

Given the shenanigans going on in parliament and the unelected house, a law could be cobbled together and applied retrospectivly .

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

John Bercow at it again last night, seriously destroying the historic role of the Speaker. Threatening Boris, not to break the Benn law passed last week.

Brexit is breaking our Constitution and it will need absolute reform. Radical remainers have become constitutional vandals. Cobbling dodgy laws via the legislature.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The PM shouldn't need reminding not to break the law ! And there are lots of dodgy laws depending on your view point but they're still the law.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

How many of them only apply to one person?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

How absurd is it, though, that “the law”, which to you and I means things like don’t steal stuff, don’t evade tax, in this case means “you must attend political negotiations and write a letter specifying that your position is X”.

What Parliament has done is something no previous Parliament has - it has attempted to use the mechanism of legislation to manage the specific actions of government. What it has done is constitutionally extremely difficult and it does nobody any favours for Parliament’s supporters to pretend that this piece of legislation is qualitatively similar to the criminal law the rest of us (usually) obey with little reservation.

There is a very ancient convention that says that parliament legislates and the government governs. Parliament is here attempting to govern, and in the long run its decision to use its legislative powers in this way, just because it could, might yet prove to be extremely destabilising. Just look at the belligerent briefings that keep coming out of No.10. We are heading for a clash of epic proportions and it seems destined to end up in the Supreme Court right at the moment when in previous times a scandal half this bad would naturally have put the matter back to the people via a general election.

Make no mistake we are in an enormous mess, whose consequences will be felt for decades.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The PM did not ask nor did he need to be reminded.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Absolutely agree. And yes the speaker is using his powers in ways not seen before but then again so is the PM. it's extraordinary times we're seeing.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, the PM prorogued Parliament for the conference season and Queen's Speech. Big deal!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

And by pure concidence, it also made sure the Government's Brexit plans couldn't be scrutinised.

Phew - that was lucky...;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I thought they didn't have any plans apart from leave on oct31

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You know full well why it was an issue just as we know full well why Parliament is setting dangerous precedents. We are argue about the mortality of it all but for all of us to pretend this is all normal and parrot the spin of politicians does us no good.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, so lucky, the same treacherous MPs on the opposition benches have had 3 years to scrutinise... :rolleyes:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If there are so many MPs against Brexit why haven't they just voted to revoke A50?

At least that would be an honest way of achieving their goal rather than paralysing parliament........

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Because few want to do it either for moral reasons (referendum) or political reasons (they'll be voted out).

The current collection of no dealers are:

• People who would revoke Article 50 right now (Lib Dems/Greens)
• People who want a second referendum (Lib Dems/Greens/Labour)
• Politicians who want Brexit over with either way but at no political cost to themselves. (Corbyn)
• People who want Brexit but with a Deal (Roy Stewart and some others)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

BJ has only been in power for a couple of months?

If you’re talking about the previous plans, didn’t the ERG/BJ vote against those plans - does that make them treacherous?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Does that make them treacherous?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Nope because May’s crap WA isn’t Brexit. Btw, more Remainer MPs voted against it than the ERG.

The Remainer MPs voting against no deal, are treacherous because they’re the ones trying to ruin Boris getting a good deal. Walking away is the best tool to have in any negotiations. If you don’t agree then next time you come to sell your house, I’ll buy it off you for a £1. (Great quote from Question Time Audience member, 12/09/19).

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

What is (and isn't) Brexit is a revisionist myth to justify no deal. Stop lying to your forum members!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, But if you have already sold your house and have nowhere to live, not such a great deal - you end up spending more money renting somewhere less than you had before, at a greater cost.

The problem with that metaphor is that when you told your wife you were selling your house, you told her the house you intended to buy was better than the current house, and that it would have more rooms and a better outlook - when it came time to move, you didn’t have a new house ready, and what you could get would mean that the driveway would be blocked meaning it would be difficult to get food and medicine into your house, you would have less money to spend as you had to spend money on interim measures to try and sort out the issues with the temporary accommodation, and the mortgage companies wouldn’t agree to a new mortgage because you had a history of defaulting on previous agreements.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I fear you may need to manage your expectations. I've said it before but the signs now all point to Boris presenting a deal to Parliament very close to May's deal. Certainly, a naive no deal looks dead this year.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

What plans? I don’t think any have been put forward have they?

---------- Post added at 08:02 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------

Makes nearly all of them hypocrites, liars, etc

https://www.facebook.com/44862302534...277251?sfns=mo

---------- Post added at 08:03 ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 ----------

No, they’re all just hypocrites and liars, so business as usual really

---------- Post added at 08:06 ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 ----------

Brexit was leaving the SM, CU & ECJ

Brexit was getting a deal within 2 years for a managed Withdrawl or leaving on WTO terms.

That is exactly what was put forward.

That is exactly what Brexit was, nothing revisionist about it.

---------- Post added at 08:07 ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 ----------

Metaphorss and analogies are pointless.

---------- Post added at 08:08 ---------- Previous post was at 08:07 ----------

Don’t bet the farm.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No it wasn’t. That’s a new definition, or else why the discussion then and now about Norway?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes it was, and I’m happy to just contradict you all day.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

As long as you are happy to be wrong all day. There’s plenty of mentions of Norway before and after 2016, including from the leader of the Brexit Party, and nobody said before the referendum “actually, that’s not an option”.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Really?It was said by Cameron pre referendum. {approx 1.43)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

That’s not what he says. He says after two years you are out... that didn’t happen either. :confused:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Quote the full sentence not just the bit that fits your obtuseness.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They've been discussing Brexit ad nauseum for the last three years! How much more time do they need?

As Boris says, time to get this done.

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 ----------

But it isn't even a precedent! Parliament has been prorogued before, and for longer periods on a couple of occasions in the past as well.

I gather you are ok with Bercow setting precedents!

---------- Post added at 11:07 ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 ----------

Oh, they've already voted against that! :p:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I’m not being obtuse. You claimed he said one thing that he observably did not.

It’s a somewhat circular argument but at no point did any official documentation or Minister outline prior to the referendum that the “Norway option” wasn’t Brexit. As I’ve said before even Farage, at one point, spoke of the positives.

With his friends taking up £8bn of short positions on the pound though, Norway wouldn’t make profits for disaster capitalism.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes be patient, Brexit just doesn't happen overnight, as you might have noticed ;)

Interesting that referendum talk has started to come back from all quarters. Makes sense to get a deal then put it to the public to ask if they want it. At least then we will know exactly what we're voting for. If it's still basically TMs deal, it's a crap deal, and it might end up with both Brexiters and Remainers voting the same way, to reject.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Oops! Gove et al have been telling porkies. (shock, horror, etc.)

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...-msp-1-5003241

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Reasonable worst case scenario sounds like a contradiction in terms. I wonder what new title they have for the actual predicted worst case scenario outlined in Black Swan.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No deal was never going to happen anyway. Bozza just wanted it as a bluff for the EU; it's failed. It would be electoral suicide which will always be his first consideration. He's not even really a Brexiteer, just a vehicle for the top job. Took ages to decide which side he was on when this all kicked off, and wrote a pro Remain article for the Times !
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3370296.html