Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No, he's not....

Baron Mackie was elevated to the Lords as a political Lord, as he was the youngest of the three sons (Maitland, John, & George) of Maitland Mackie, each of whom has had several offspring.

So in reality, Alan Rusbridger is married to someone who has a share in a family business and lands, none of which will change whether or not Scotland votes for independence, unless the new Scottish parliament is intending to disenfranchise / disinherit anyone married to someone not Scots-born....;)

As has been said earlier, not sure what the relevance is....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sshhhh! Don't give them ideas!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Such is the inbuilt distrust of anything emanating from Westminster/London/England north of the border, I don't think the BT campaign could do anything without being criticised by someone or other.

IMHO it's time for the Scots to put up or shut up. Everyone I talk to just wants this interminable name calling to be over and done with so make your mind up guys. Go your own way or stay in but let that be an end to it because the vast majority of people watching from the sidelines seem to be thoroughly peed off with all this. In fact given all the veiled and not so veiled 'threats' being issued by the Yes people to all and sundry, you could just find you've lost yourselves a great many friends irrespective of the result and that really would be sad. This whole thing has opened a can of worms and created a great deal of resentment which won't be easily forgotten no matter what else happens. For those who set this train in motion I hope it was worth it.



---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:48 ----------

Typical biased nonsense from the BT side as usual... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not sure if he used the phrase 'working class' often enough.....;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sign up, and like 'em on Facebook, then if you can possibly get to a Unity rally on Wednesday, please do so:

http://www.dayofunity.co.uk/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's just plain old bullying... :rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

My granddad was born in Glasgow and grew up next to the Clyde in Edinburgh.

He would have branded Salmond a traitor, whose head should be on a spike in the Tower of London.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Was he born during the floods?:confused:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It is unlikely that alcohol would be cheaper, as Scotland has imposed its own extra alcohol levy.
Link

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Stephen, WHY is it that Scots living abroad can vote, according to our local council. But my wife cannot.

My wife is proud to be a Scot, and l think its shameful, that she cannot express her view on her country.

I am part of the UNITED KINGDOM, and l hope that Scots stay as they are. When l was up in Scotland 38 years ago, and first met my wife. The people of Scotland are the nicest people that l have met. I loved going to the Old Firm games.

And this is what makes Scotland great - keep it as it is.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Only certain people who live abroad. Link

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Just like my dad that was born in Liverpool and grew up next to the Mersey in Newcastle.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Geometry was never his strong point ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Its only armed forces personel and their partners and only as long as they are registered to vote in the UK.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As we stand at the cusp of a decision of monumental proportions, I can only echo the words of The Lord of the Rings King Théoden of Rohan who wondered "How has it come to this?"

How indeed. I hope Scots YES voters are not doing so because of some nationalistic dislike of the English. If they are, then Scots ought to know there are many regions outside London, but within England itself, who feel The City has abandoned them.

If there is a really good reason to remain united, it is to fight for parity and equality throughout the United Kingdom; starting with The City realising its mistake in forgetting that it exists because of the people of all of the UK, not despite them.

I hope Scotland remains in the UK; I can't imagine being without its people.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

While I feel it to be no closer than the Irish.

I don't generally express indifference as there's little point but in this case I honestly couldn't care less whether Scotland stays or goes.

If anything I would prefer them to go as they appear to want the social democrat way of life without the tax bill that goes with it. Much of the rest of the country is neglected and perhaps the likely cost savings to many businesses and indeed government would be spread between us.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As far as I can tell. Most of them seem to have a dislike for the Tories and also seem to feel hard done by from 'Westminster'

I can see no other reason. We already control a lot in Scotland like the NHS, Education and Police just to name a few.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If Scotland aren't happy about austerity there is always the option via the Scotland Act of 2012 to raise taxes as of 2015 on some and 2016 on income tax in order to counteract it.

Not sure that'd be a big referendum or vote winner though.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As a Welshman I am concerned that a Scottish Yes vote will boost the idiotic Welsh Nationalists towards an independent Wales vote. I'm sure there are many Scottish people worried about the possibility of a Yes vote as there are in Wales.

I appreciate that the money generated in the UK comes mainly from the South East and it subsidises Wales, Welsh Labour are very adept at wasting other peoples money, and they are very much 'Old Labour'. I am under no illusions that an Independent Wales would be run by a Labour government and what the outcome of that would be.

I know that my taxes as a working person would have to rise considerably to cover the funding shortfall from England and the increase spending on the health service and civil servant jobs in general. (Wales are very good at creating civil servant jobs)

I believe the argument for Wales to be independent is the same as Scotland, and I'm happy to keep taking money from England to be honest.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'd rather not go to be honest.

I am very worried that the daft nationalists will succed and tear this great nation apart.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

le i'r Alban :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Jeezo Salmond really is full of himself isn't he! Some of his quotes are priceless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-29194220

Elsewhere in the real world....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It won't be about nationalists. There aren't enough nationalists to achieve a Yes vote.

There is a real movement just now and it crosses the divides of traditional party politics. People who have become detached and disillusioned with the politics of Westminster have became reinvigorated by the possibility of being able to determine the shape of their own society.

The negativity of BT and the bias of the mainstream media seems to be have worked in the favour of the Yes campaign.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Carwyn Jones has already opened his big gob on the subject....

And Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-29197303 :mad:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I personally don't see the negativity from BT. They are purely stating facts and the case for staying part of the UK.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm only seeing scarey stories about how Scotland can't go it alone. I've yet to see a positive argument. Vague promises of devomax (which tory mps are already saying they will vote down) don't count as a positive argument.

Many of the facts aren't facts at all. They're glossy interpretations of opinions that allude to resembling a fact if the right set of circumstances come together under a blue moon.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I don't doubt that Scotland could go it alone, however not in the way the SNP have been promising.

As with many Yes voters crying we never voted for that government I have this to say

We are having a referendum brought about by the SNP Scottish government who less than 50% of people voted for, in an election that had just 50% turnout.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I don't think you'll have to read too far back on some of my posts with regards to how I feel about Salmond and Sturgeon. Not a fan to say the least.

You are correct in what you say about how we've got here. However, you must admit that this caught the imagination of Scotland beyond any party politics. It feels like a different place just now. I don't think this politicising of the General public will disappear after the results of the vote are announced. People are interested in politics again and they believe that their X is important. I'll bet you a pound (or euro) that there will be more than a 50% turnout on Thursday. ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

People are getting tired of corporations and their control over governments these days, so people tend to see their comments in relation to things like devolution as threats rather than reality. They are in a way threats and intended to sway opinion to what is best for their business rather than the people, so it's understandable too.

So having the hated Cameron in government, along with getting support from Gordon Brown and threats from companies with Scottish in their name might just be enough to make people vote Yes out of spite.


Scottish independence: Crowd protests against 'BBC bias'

http://s15.postimg.org/z8fc24o8r/image.jpg

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think it's an excellent idea, and that England should also have devolved powers. It's rather churlish that Scottish MPs can vote on matters that do not concern them in any way, shape or form.

Obviously anything less I am not happy about. Anything that has been devolved to a home nation should be outside of their MPs' competence in the Commons when it concerns other home nations only.

Contrary to apparently popular belief Scotland comprises less than 1/10th of the population of the UK and has no right, at all, to a disproportionate level of influence within the UK as a whole.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's a balance, because things work so much better when governments control corporations.......................

But what if your livelihood depends on that business? Then what is best for that business is best for you too. Well if you want to keep your job.

You can't separate these things out for convenience. That's why it's called socio-economics, amongst other things, they are inter-related. It's not black and white

and that would be a really clever reason...........they would get what they deserve.

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

Nice to see that they're not above intimidation and trying to interfere with the democratic process either.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Something I fully understand. Just think people in general have got a point where they are so disillusioned with it all that logic goes out the window. There is a lot of 'if they are trying so hard to make us do x, lets do y to show our unhappiness'.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The only balance is to the degree of control governments have over corporations. Corporations shouldn't have any control or sway over governments beyond not doing business in their jurisdictions. Corporations don't get to vote in a democracy, people do.

The only vote corporations should get is whether or not to do business in a nation under the terms set forward by that nation's elected representatives, not lobby said representatives, aka bribe them to get more favourable terms and ideally land the taxpayer with the bills for their increased profits.

Our governments are increasingly corporatist and that's working brilliantly given that basically none of the economic recovery's positive impacts have filtered down to anyone below the wealthiest.

Governments should control corporations to an extent; this doesn't mean nationalising everything, it means not pandering to their whims, not bailing them out with taxpayers' money but letting their shareholders take the pain.

It's nothing more than regulated capitalism, nothing statist about it.

---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Look at the state of the UK. Can you blame people for being disillusioned?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

When we're referring to companies the size of RBS, HBOS etc., shareholders 'taking the pain' inevitably means a great many very ordinary pensioners who made no choice to invest in those companies so let's be clear that it's not only the rich who would be suffer if they were allowed to fail.

There are plenty of Lloyds Bank shareholders who've lost out massively due to the company being pressured into merging with Halifax/BOS by Gordon Brown in a rather less than transparent manner.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Investment, bar in guaranteed savings accounts, should carry risk. That's why there's a return on those investments.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Correct nothing's guaranteed but to imply that shareholders don't or haven't suffered and that they don't include virtually everyone who has a decent pension is patent nonsense. What real choice does an ordinary pensioner have in what his/her pension fund is invested in? It's all very well banging on about letting companies fail but let's not forget the collateral damage eh? How happy would you be if your partner's pension was decimated through no fault of her own?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Investors have lost out, if only in lower rates of return.

It was faith in the investments business that is being protected. If nobody feels safe enough to invest, where will the money for mortgages, business and personal loans, and even Government debt, come from?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If I'm correct, Igni's other half is a teacher, so like the rest of us in public service the present government's treating us as their whippieng boys, and so among other things her pension IS being decimated through no fault of her own!

Cheers

Grim

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Decimated to private sector levels.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Because "We're all in this together". Right?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

And we all know what a MOD edit soundbite that was.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Absolutely, tell the public sector that...

But that's another debate.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The public sector have been told that. They're sick sore and tired encouraging your average private sector workers to stand up for better protections and pensions instead of blindly and gullibly buying into divisive soundbites and creating a race to the bottom. As you say, it's another debate.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well for a start the money for mortgages, businesses and personal loans is created out of thin air for the most part thanks to the joys of fractional reserve banking.

http://www.positivemoney.org/ can assist with this concept.

Insolvent banks having their credit ratings propped up on the assumption that the state will bail them out isn't my idea of capitalism.

---------- Post added at 07:55 ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 ----------

Pension funds have largely suffered due to government action, precisely the bailouts I mentioned.

When plentiful, basically free money is being thrown at financial institutions by the central bank they, surprise surprise, don't feel the need to attract investors by offering appropriate rates of return.

As mentioned my partner's pension has been decimated through no fault of her own. The scheme was changed just a few years ago and signed off as sustainable, however as we're all in it together the current government decided to use the surplus of that pension fund to subsidise others.

---------- Post added at 08:01 ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 ----------

Be awesome if her working hours were decimated to private sector levels rather than her current pattern of 7am -> 10pm during the week with another 12 or so hours of work done this weekend which is pretty much routine during term-time.

Her contributions to her pension are higher than standard private sector levels, stands to reason her annuity should be.

The government contribution goes some way towards offsetting the miserable salary for an extremely hard and fraught post-graduate job.

---------- Post added at 08:02 ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 ----------

Will do, once the message hits the 'wealth creators' who've seen their wealth not only recover its fall in 2008-9 but continue to rise beyond that level while everyone else, both public and private sector, is worse off.

Guess where all that cheap, manufactured money the BoE have been pumping out has ended up?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Meanwhile, back on the campaign trail, No supporters in my local area seem finally to have snapped. Until now, all the vandalism of campaign signage (and I mean, absolutely all of it) has been Yessers tearing down or spray painting No signs. However, in the last 24 hours there has been a spate of attacks on Yes signs. And a hillside local to me, which had an enormous Yes spelled out on it in white plastic (installed overnight and first visible Sunday morning) was entirely removed by 8am today.

I get the impression that there is a lot of pent-up indignation amongst people who are planning to vote No but have felt intimidated by how loud and in-your-face some of the so-called grassroots Yessers have been.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes I know she is - he's mentioned it more that once in several threads which I why I mentioned her. We're all too aware of how public sector pensions are being hit by HMG changing the rules - there have been many strikes for this reason. However it's not the value of the funds themselves which is the issue there (teacher's pensions are unfunded IIRC). No more comfort to those affected I know but very different reasons.

The point being made was that if/when companies like the banks are just allowed to fail it's not only well heeled fat cats who lose out. It's also ordinary people whose private sector pensions and savings are invested in those companies which by the very fact that they are so large have to form a part of any significant investment portfolio. Every time a PLC goes bust the shareholders lose out but you'd never think so given the usual rhetoric about greedy shareholders never suffering. Yes that is a risk shareholders take when they invest directly in shares but what real choice does the ordinary private sector worker have as to where his employer's pension fund is invested? So if you have sympathy for public sector workers have sympathy for private sector workers too whose pension funds suffer and also fluctuate with market volatility.

Anyway this is OT so perhaps we should leave the subject for another thread.

@Ignitionet - I refer the honourable gentleman to my post above.

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 ----------

Perhaps the saddest thing about all this is how it's given rise to so much bile and intimidation - something which the SNP seems to view as an acceptable means to an end. Whatever happens now there's going to be a lot of very bitter people in Scotland and if Westminster starts offering all sorts of financial 'concessions' there'll be a lot of unhappy folks in the rest of the UK too.

I wonder what Salmond's real legacy will be.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Division. Causing real fallouts between yes and no to the point of violence and intimidation.

A number of yes campaigners aren't pro-Scotland, just anti British/English and they won't take a no vote in good grace.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes so it seems. No doubt these sad folks have rather enjoyed their few months of importance and won't want to go back to being pathetic cyber warriors most people just ignore. If the vote goes the wrong way for them I don't suppose they'll accept defeat at all, let alone gracefully.

I don't think this has been handled at all well by HMG but have a feeling that whatever they'd done Salmond would have ensured it came back to bite them.

I hope the majority of Scots see what's really happening here and what the risks are. There's a hell of a lot at stake up there.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

what do you reckon? in the event of a No win?

Localised violence/ riots?

Doesn't take a lot for that to happen, anywhere, nowadays

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well it'd be a great opportunity for some wanton looting and destruction. I wonder if Salmond's cronies have any contingency plans for such a reaction. If they have I don't suppose they'd be keen to admit it since that'd be an acknowledgment of the anger and hatred they've stirred up for political ends.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Scots are use to vandalism, looting and destruction... they had it under the Thatcher years!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

To a very small group of Scots hatred towards the English is all consuming and this referendum has allowed them to go top gear and not only express it but intimidate others. When this is all over the social damage and cost are going to take a very long time to repair if it can be repaired and given that any no victory doesn't look as though it's going to be large this issue will be kept burning till the SNP think they can get another vote. I honestly don't think the SNP care what lies they tell or damage they do as long as they get their victory no amount of reality is getting through to them and that is translating down to quite a lot of people.

Also the actions of the SNP in all this will have not gone down well with most people and organisations they will have to negotiate with should they get a yes victory. Resentment in ruk is at an all time high against Scotland and any major giveaway of any sort is not going to be well received by the majority. It is going to be generations before the mess from this is put behind people that's the legacy of salmond and he knows it and doesn't give a damn.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Getting close to the 18th. Hope to God it is a NO.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Me too nash.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's just a Friday night! :D

Nah I think there will be petted lips all round and accusations of dirty tricks but no widespread disorder. The cops will be in meltdown dealing with twitter and Facebook abuse and threats though.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Let's hope you're right.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Just listened to decent portion of Cameron's speech.

He came across very well.

I can understand why he didn't get involved, but I would have liked to have seen him up against Salmond.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

He was always going to be damned either way.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Ditto nash


My son received a letter from his union today urging their members to vote NO, also at the bottom of the page If you don't know - then vote NO. Hope he takes their advice :)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I see Salmond will be big enough to 'offer the hand of friendship' to the English should the vote be Yes. How very decent nice of him.... After presiding over a miserable campaign of threats, bile, paranoia and hatred, he'll forget all that if he gets his way, forgive the English for all their sins and be ready to do business, presuming of course that he gets everything he wants! If he doesn't the English need to be clear that his true colours will once again come to the fore along with similar threats, bile and hatred.

Salmond always wanted to go down in history for something and IMHO his place in the record books is now secure as the man who changed, greatly for the worse, the relationship between the people England and Scotland. Irrespective of the result, there's already great deal of resentment pent up south of the border and it's only going to get worse as either a whole raft of concessions will be sent north or we'll be subject to years more of his nauseating pomposity in demanding what he wants and telling us what we can have. In igniting and playing to such emotions amongst his compatriots I believe he's aroused an opposing set of emotions amongst many English for whom I feel there's an increasing sense of 'enough is enough' from this guy in particular and the SNP in general.

With the general election not far away, I'm hoping the English electorate will bear very carefully in mind what the likes of Clegg, Miliband and Cameron say/do after the vote and to what extent, if any, they consider the feelings and wishes of the English before making important concessions.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This is a bit awkward for the Nats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29213416

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7366

Doesn't make good reading either. Despite more overall austerity between 2009 and planned 2016 (-13% departmental spending versus -8% in Scotland) the NHS has seen a real terms increase in funding in England and Wales of 4% compared with a real terms 1% decrease in Scotland.

All about the priorities.

They should still vote yes, mind. Can't be any worse than the current UK basket case.

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------

Given he and the rest of the politicians have, in a desperate knee-jerk attempt to bribe the Scottish electorate, promised them the continuation of the Barnett formula for the foreseeable along with 'extensive powers' for the Scottish Parliament you're absolutely right he is damned.

After arrogantly discounting the possibility of a 'yes' vote they suddenly scramble like headless chickens and start opening the cheque book, the one you and I fund, to bribe the Scots to stay in the union.

He, Milliband and Clegg are all damned; spineless *******s.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Agreed.

Also, the Scottish independence referendum really only happened because it was assumed the vote would be a definitive no, a sure thing. Once it became apparent that the result might not be so predictable, the gov is suddenly having kittens....

Just like a lot of things really, we'll only get a referendum on the EU when the gov is certain they'll get their way. Is that really democracy when the gov only allows us a say when they're sure they'll get their way? I really don't think so, although it gives the illusion of democracy, this time its backfired and possibly too many people have seen through their BS. Too many, as in the gov might just lose this little gamble.

I'm all for a divorce from Westminster, and I hope the Yes camp win. If the rest of us ever get the chance to divorce from Westminster, I sure hope we do the right thing and vote Yes too.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Independence for Scotland and the Scots is a huge mistake and nothing will ever persuade me otherwise.

They will regret a yes vote big time.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The No Campaign are really cranking things up in my area. On Sunday they where going door to door to have a chat. On Monday I received a No Thanks leaflet from Better Together and today I've received another leaflet from Scottish Labour advising "It's not worth the risk".

As a No voter myself I'm proud to be Scottish and proud to be British. I will be devastated if we vote YES on Thursday. I feel my identity and way of life is at risk of being changed against my will. I simply don't trust the promises being made by the YES campaign and have real concerns about how fanatical some of their supporters have become. I can honestly say I identify more with our English neighbours than those who are YES minded.

Whatever the result on Thursday, Scotland is a nation divided. It might take more than a generation for the damage to be repaired. I can't see whoever loses this week accepting defeat and turning the other cheek.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Perhaps the Government are bearing in mind the negative economic effects of breaking up the Union - the first split up of a democratic (continuously, not post Soviet) country in the last hundred years.

Perhaps continuing the Barnett Formula makes economic sense then?

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------

Not sure regions like the South West and the North East could survive economically on their own.....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Which I why I wrote this:

;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They all say that at the time, they even said the same thing about the American colonies when they wanted independence, also the same with many commonwealth countries really. Go to Ireland and ask how many want to be back under British rule. Don't kid yourself, noone wants to be back under British rule. Its not because English people are unscrupulous and unsavory, rather its just that people are fed up with the incompetence of the British government - and for good reason.

If Scotland is such a drain on the British economy (as so many south of the border love to remind us at every opportunity) then those concerned should be glad to see the Scots leave.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They will be and they'll be mightily upset by the lengths to which their elected representatives seem willing to go to keep them in the 'union'. The English certainly don't have the monopoly on bad/inept govt. and it's ironic that 2 of the most inept PM's in recent times have been Scottish. Whatever happens now it'll be interesting to see how well or poorly Scotland's new govt. performs and whether they represent any improvement over typical 'British' govt.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I honestly couldn't care less about the economics of a split I'm sick and tired of being the convenient villain for that merry band of Scots that blame everyone else for the troubles and even now ruk is blamed for the NHS despite the fact a Scots government has been handling that for a while. I want Scotland to go so when you screw up you only have yourselves to blame. Of course there will be an economic impact but I'm sure ruk will survive and go on to prosper again. As for being fed up with the Westminster government join the bloody club were all fed up with politicians unfortunately England hasn't the option to break away or form our own goverment. Maybe I wouldn't be so angry if Scotland was prepared to pay their way if they split but your brilliant Scots politicians have already said "give us all we want or we walk away from the debt" yeah your really raising the bar. Vote yes go away and be happy because while not many in the rest of ruk are having a great time at the minute an end to this issue will raise a smile for a while. Oh and I'm half Scots father from Kirkcaldy just in case I got accused of being "one of them of them whinging English".

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If you're proposing an English referendum I'll second that! :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Recently said by a comedian; When Scotland was allowed to choose their own national animal, they chose a unicorn..... what could possibly go wrong with them making all their own decisions in the future? :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Firstly, Scottish isn't British ?

secondly, just how many Scots where in the Government from 97 -10?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This is a really good article and well worth a read.

Ewan Morrison – YES: Why I Joined Yes and Why I Changed to No

Getting fed up with the narrow minded behaviour of some of my friends on facebook that plan on voting Yes. Jumping on every single thing I mention about remaining part of the UK and barraging me with silly links to wings over Scotland and trying to prove everything that isn't what they want to hear is wrong.

Even my sister in law has changed her profile pic to one stating, Vote yes, don't be a %&*£! bag!

Disgraceful.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There's a new name for the rabid YES supporters who are using bullying, abusive and intimidating behaviour towards those who don't share their views and opinions..... the YEStapo. Pretty sure it will be trending soon enough on social media.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

"GestapNO" sounds just as catchy though.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It doesn't roll off the tongue as well :D

---------- Post added at 21:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:09 ----------

Very interesting article. It seems to hit the nail on the head in terms of what I've experienced when trying to discuss the referendum with friends who support YES. Have a section of YES supporters been brainwashed?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think that the worst news, if the vote is Yes. Is that Celtic and Rangers can forget about playing in the English Premier League of the Football League.

That one has already been decided according to newspapers in London. According to FIFA, this wont be allowed.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hang on, you think that of all the things that Scotland will lose out on if there(god forbid) is a yes win is that the old firm wouldn't be able to play in English football??

hahaha once in a while Arthur you actually make me laugh.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I like Arthur but don't agree with him on this one. My main concern about a YES vote is losing my British identity and potentially my way of life against my will. An alien in my own Country.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think we are already aliens in or own country!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Queen was in Glasgow when she formally met Alex Salmond, Scotland's First Minister.

EIIR: "How nice to see you Mr. Salmond."

AS: "Nice to see you Your Majesty. Now, what are we going
to call Scotland when we win Independence?

EIIR: "Oh dear, one hasn't considered that yet!"

AS: "How about calling it a 'Kingdom' and then I will be
King?

EIIR: "Near! One doesn't think that is appropriate."

AS: "How about 'Empire' then I can be an Emperor?

EIIR: "Near! In one's dreams!"

AS: "All right! So how about calling it a 'Principality' and
then I can be a Prince?"

EIIR: "Near, Mr. Salmond! I think we will let it remain a
'country' and you can carry on as you are."

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The SNP are using Norway as an example of how a low-population oil-rich country can prosper - they forget to mention that beer is around 9 euros a pint, that Whisky costs two to three times the UK price, and that the Norwegian base Income tax rate is 28%.

Haven't heard those figures/prices mentioned much.....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The problem that Norway will face is that all the high paid jobs in the oil and gas industries will eventually disappear, and buying up property and businesses in other countries won't help in that.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not a bad problem to have. They've sensibly stuck a few quid away for such rainy days.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Over the centuries many technologies have become outdated and left behind and oil will be undoubtedly follow suit. However Norway unlike the UK has not squandered its oil income and is so much more prepared than you assert by using the income and not the capital to facilitate a change in its economy.

What is the UK going to do when the oils runs out?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What it did before Oil was found.

There's actually quite a lot of oil out there, it's just harder to get at. So extracting it will require investment, and it'll be more expensive.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So they will have high unemployment benefits, which will please those that continue to work.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not long to go now! I think the No vote will just edge it, but then there is always a surprise.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well all the yessers are partying in George Square is if they have won already. Glasgow City Centre is swarming with them.

Waste of their time.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

My hunch is sometime on Friday Scotland will have decided to stay in the union and with that hopefully this will have been put to bed once and for all any chance of Scotland ever going alone as we are very much better together.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Anyone who thinks voting Yes will safeguard the NHS should watch this. Nothing could be further from the truth.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=728624613887849

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There's been a lot of speculation today about all those who have never registered to vote previously specifically registering to vote YES. The theory being who would register to vote, or vote for the first time, to say no to something.

Well me, my wife, my Mum, my Dad, my 2 brothers, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law, my brother-in-law and sister-in-law are going to the polls tomorrow to vote No. Of the 10 of us only 5 have voted previously. The younger members of the family are either voting for the first time, or have not been registered to vote previously. This is a pattern I've seen amongst friends and family. Of course this might not be the case everywhere but from my own experience, people who have shown no interest in politics previously are signing up just to vote No.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

Now Shetland are considering their place in Scotland:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...air-carmichael

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well that's just daft. If the reason was vote no or we'll kill your first born, I'm sure many would register to vote.

If the no'ers passionately believe no, then they'll register to vote no.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Ignoring the polls and looking at friends and various sources like social media, I would say its more of a 60/40 majority for independence, if not bigger.

When multiple polls match up they are usually fairly accurate though, but get the feeling there is not something right with them at the moment :P

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I don't see it. Nothing at all has indicated anything like that.

The way I see it. The don't knows hold the key. If you're a don't know at this point the likelihood is you'll stick with what you know.

I predict something like 55/45 for No.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Polls have shown that the youth of Scotland are behind the YES campaign with more middle aged and older Scots siding with the No. That's why there's much more noise on social media and forums in favour of YES than No.

Not too long now until we know for sure what the people of Scotland really think.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It will be a YES.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hopefully not

What is this savvy nonsense all the yes mob are posting on social media??