Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hmmm. I'm not sure selling off every meaningful state asset chasing a low tax economy was totally unavoidable - certainly the Scandanavian countries have taken a different approach and seem happy enough. Plenty of assets, a happy population.

We've got a miserable population, trying to ensure that misery transcends to future generations, I'm guessing because the national psyche has a sense of missed opportunity and denial. However, that's I'm sure beyond the scope of the Scottish independence thread.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

Give me their wages and pension pots and I'll vote to stay. I'll even make after dinner speeches on the subject for thousands a go. I do a great Mr T impersonation too.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That ALSO means nobody truly can claim that the deficit is actually lower.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

All countries fund everything through tax receipts and borrowing - that stands to reason.

It's also true to say that GERS doesn't reflect what that amount would be. So the two statements I made aren't as contradictory as they appear.

---------- Post added at 20:37 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

It certainly needs better work on the matter than GERS.

I will say though that GERS is an age old argument - predates 2014. This line of argument isn't going to be 'news' to the 58%.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They don't all fund it by borrowing. As I pointed out, in the recent past even EU countries have been unable to borrow. They had to be propped up by the EU, so who would be expected to pick up Scotland's tab?
And what if any adjustment of the GERS figures led to a higher deficit? What exactly is Scotland producing, that produces the required massive missing tax income? Can't be oil as that is easily separated.
Have the SNP come up with what they consider to be the true figures? Or do they simply complain because they don't like the answer?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That is not what indebted later generations as you alluded to, it was the costs of two wars that I explained.

The “State Assets”, would they be the assets they robbed from the private sector?

Hey, the assets are still there. All the state has to do is go a thieve them again from the people that own them.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'd be hugely interested to read on how the mass privatisations of the 1980s and 1990s were all companies that previously existed in the private sector. But I think that's for another thread.

Generations are indebted because of the generations who went before them and the political choices to not address the debt and pass it down. Oddly, the generation that benefited the most from selling state assets wants to bypass responsibility for the debts it didn't address. Completely unsurprising, but masquerading this as a sincere or noble duty to 'balance the books' is laughable.

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:53 ----------

The concept of European Monetary Union restricts the ability of single member states, yes, that's because these countries don't have the full range of fiscal powers due to handing them over as part of joining the Euro.

That doesn't defeat the general premise that all state funding comes from taxation or borrowing. Or selling off the state assets I suppose to put coal miners on the dole!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The EU DIDN'T restrict the borrowing of those countries.:rolleyes: All the EU would be able to do is "fine" those countries.

The bond markets wouldn't buy their debt, NOBODY would lend them anything.
Link

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Cannot believe anyone can say Yes , just because Nicola is on the TV every day, I will never say yes to this question. God help us if they do, as I am too old to move to another country,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Phones were always government owned, post office etc, granted.

British Rail - formed from private rail companies from 1948.

British Leyland - formed from private car companies. 1975

Electricity - National Grid and Regional DNO’s - The Electricity Act 1947 (repealed 1989) merged 625 electricity companies to be vested in twelve area electricity boards whilst the generation and 132 kV National Grid were vested with the British Electricity Authority.

Water - initially private enterprises but quickly brought into public ownership in the mid-late 1800’s. Not a bad thing at the time.

Coal - National coal board - formed from private coal companies in 1946.

Gas - formed of private gas companies in 1948

Steel - formed of private companies in 1949, unnationalised in 1952, renationalised in 1967.

So really the only one is BT, which was government owned from inception being part of the Royal Mail.

Happy for you to prove me wrong.

That said, given the time and how important it was at that time....water And sanitation probably best run by the authorities. So you can have that too.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Scotland-based Brexit voters against Scottish independence:
If you knew what you know now about the increase in support for Scottish independence; encouraged by Brexit; leading to a risk of Scottish independence and likely re-joining of the EU by Scotland in the future, would you have still voted Leave?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Almost all of those in the national interest and worthy of nationalisation. Only cars appear to exist in a genuinely competitive market. The rest are oligopolies, so consumers don’t benefit from perfect equilibrium in pricing.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

Max? :D

Edit apologies - Chris too.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Great swerve, worthy of Beckham, but All very not relevant in the slightest.

Well they all did exist (apart from BT) in the private sector and the only one I’ll give you in national interest is water, and only due to the time period.

My point being, across the several recent posts, is that the State creates nothing. Anything the state has is Either stolen from or gifted by it’s Citizens.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It’s palpably untrue that the state creates nothing, and a fundamental flaw in your ideology. Which I guess explains the inability to understand an effective coronavirus response - it requires everything you loathe.

I’ll accept though that taxation does fund it, so it does come from the citizens. But it creates what citizens and private enterprise cannot alone. Large scale projects that require common purpose, common goals, and a vision beyond the stock price or profit margin in the next 3-5 years.

We’ve moved on somewhat from Scottish independence, however at least we’ve agreed that Britain is the hollowed out shell of a once-great state. It’s little wonder people of Scotland see little value in clinging to it, especially if your opinion/ideology continues to prevail in England.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Totally agree with you mate, can you imagine the moon howlers that wee nippy has in her government trying to run Scotland, a terrifying thought indeed.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Still Leave.
Still No.

Thanks for asking. :D