Cable Forum
Page 228 of 369 « First 128178218224225226227 228 229230231232238278328 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33708171)

Sephiroth 10-08-2020 17:03
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36046187)
Or you could ask (maybe using the 'Five Whys') why the EU has taken such a strong line on the arbitration mechanisms.

Of course, the ECJ issue is somewhat clouded by the fact that part of the UK will be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ regardless of what happens at the end of the year
I think you've made a strong point (that could have been made by Andrew and the Ianch) - if it's good enough for NI, then it might as well apply to the whole UK.

But the English and Welsh Leavers won't have that - they don't see there being the same or similar circumstances that merit adherence to ECJ jurisdiction. And neither do I.

NI and the Republic will unite in due course, I'm sure.

1andrew1 10-08-2020 17:29
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36046184)
Why do you never explain things through UK eyes? It comes across as apologising for the EU without understanding that the UK cannot accept ecj jurisdiction. Why not criticise the EU for its stance?
You asked for an explanation of the facts which I supplied. It helps to be dispassionate when explaining such matters.
As you know, Boris is accepting ECJ jurisdiction due to the NI situation. Why not get the best deal possible by accepting it more widely so we can finish these talks and leave the EU smoothly?

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36046191)
I think you've made a strong point (that could have been made by Andrew and the Ianch) - if it's good enough for NI, then it might as well apply to the whole UK.

But the English and Welsh Leavers won't have that - they don't see there being the same or similar circumstances that merit adherence to ECJ jurisdiction. And neither do I.

NI and the Republic will unite in due course, I'm sure.
It's not about pandering to a particular subset of referendum participants. It's about getting a good deal for a divided country during a pandemic.

Sephiroth 10-08-2020 18:17
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36046192)
You asked for an explanation of the facts which I supplied. It helps to be dispassionate when explaining such matters.
As you know, Boris is accepting ECJ jurisdiction due to the NI situation. Why not get the best deal possible by accepting it more widely so we can finish these talks and leave the EU smoothly?

---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------


It's not about pandering to a particular subset of referendum participants. It's about getting a good deal for a divided country during a pandemic.
It's about getting the right deal, respecting the wishes of the majority voters.

1andrew1 10-08-2020 18:23
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36046201)
It's about getting the right deal, respecting the wishes of the majority voters.
Projecting your own beliefs onto 52% of referendum participants may be reassuring emotionally but is flawed intellectually.

Sephiroth 10-08-2020 18:34
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36046203)
Projecting your own beliefs onto 52% of referendum participants may be reassuring emotionally but is flawed intellectually.
That it can't be. You obviously feel that the Guvmin must swallow its current instinct and do the sums to reach a different decision.

Trouble is that 52% + the overspill from the GE do not want the ECJ to have jurisdiction over us. With the EU having similar crippling problems to the UK as a result of CV, it seems to me that this is the best moment to plough our own furrow as we'll not get anything out of the alternative.

1andrew1 10-08-2020 19:05
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36046205)
That it can't be. You obviously feel that the Guvmin must swallow its current instinct and do the sums to reach a different decision.

Trouble is that 52% + the overspill from the GE do not want the ECJ to have jurisdiction over us. With the EU having similar crippling problems to the UK as a result of CV, it seems to me that this is the best moment to plough our own furrow as we'll not get anything out of the alternative.
The Government should get the closest deal possible to ensure that in these troubled times, the recession is not far longer and far deeper than it could be.

I'm not sure how ploughing our own fallow and global supply chains work together.

But if ploughing our own fallow is anything like the way we've handled the coronavirus situation (non-tendered deals to cronies for bad equipment, track and trace not working effectively, worst Covid figures in Europe.) then you need to think through such an approach.

Sephiroth 10-08-2020 19:14
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
I'll leave it at that to avoid going round in circles. Needless to say, we are actually far apart on this matter.

I'll cheer you up in a minor way, though. I'd have been content to remain in the EU although I wholly dislike their direction of travel. Reason for that is the UK hasn't travelled backwards whilst in the EU.

Now that we're out, maybe some travelling backwards, but we'll move forward because we have to.

1andrew1 10-08-2020 19:51
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36046210)
I'll leave it at that to avoid going round in circles. Needless to say, we are actually far apart on this matter.

I'll cheer you up in a minor way, though. I'd have been content to remain in the EU although I wholly dislike their direction of travel. Reason for that is the UK hasn't travelled backwards whilst in the EU.

Now that we're out, maybe some travelling backwards, but we'll move forward because we have to.
We had opt-out for greater integration, which I wasn't keen on either. The greater integration that is, not the opt-out. ;)

I'll leave that one area of agreement there too and also add that I have one major gripe with the EU/EEC - they did not permit us to join earlier. ;)

Sephiroth 10-08-2020 20:05
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36046224)
We had opt-out for greater integration, which I wasn't keen on either. The greater integration that is, not the opt-out. ;)

I'll leave that one area of agreement there too and also add that I have one major gripe with the EU/EEC - they did not permit us to join earlier. ;)
Ah - something worth talking about!

If CdG had allowed us to join earlier, one of our prime ministers would still have been screwed over by France who always wanted to protect their crazy farm system subsidised by the CAP.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...te-517769.html

jfman 10-08-2020 20:23
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
A compelling read as ever from you two. :)

Chris 10-08-2020 22:54
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Gen. De Gaulle’s time in the U.K. during the war was well spent. As well as rallying French resistance to German occupation, he came to know us better than many of us know ourselves. He was absolutely right that the British outlook and temperament made us unsuitable for membership. The fact that we have mounted the only serious attempt to escape the EU in its history - and succeeded - is testament to that.

Mr K 11-08-2020 07:45
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Is Brexit still going on? Well there's a surprise. Thought it was all straightforward, and deals with other countries easy peasy. Even the Brexiteers are now dissing the deal they all voted for. Reality is a cruel mistress.

Sephiroth 11-08-2020 07:55
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36046257)
Is Brexit still going on? Well there's a surprise. Thought it was all straightforward, and deals with other countries easy peasy. Even the Brexiteers are now dissing the deal they all voted for. Reality is a cruel mistress.
I understand the point you are making. But reaslly that is an exposé of the EU's intention to punish the UK for its decision tto leave the EU.

Of course it's not quite as pat as that. You are right, DD did explain that it should be 'easy peasy' to get a sensible trade deal - and so it should have been because we leave the EU in a fully aligned state. But he was taken in by his own mission and did not, in his public utterances, consider how difficult the EU would be. He should have known that and should have said so at the time.

Hugh 11-08-2020 08:01
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36046259)
I understand the point you are making. But reaslly that is an exposé of the EU's intention to punish the UK for its decision tto leave the EU.

Of course it's not quite as pat as that. You are right, DD did explain that it should be 'easy peasy' to get a sensible trade deal - and so it should have been because we leave the EU in a fully aligned state. But he was taken in by his own mission and did not, in his public utterances, consider how difficult the EU would be. He should have known that and should have said so at the time.
Don’t forget that IDS felt the same, and spoke passionately in the HoC about how MPs didn’t need any more time to scrutinise the WA as it had had had plenty of time to be reviewed in depth, and it should just be signed off...

(Apparently he has now discovered some "fine print" he didn’t know about before...)

Sephiroth 11-08-2020 09:28
Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36046260)
Don’t forget that IDS felt the same, and spoke passionately in the HoC about how MPs didn’t need any more time to scrutinise the WA as it had had had plenty of time to be reviewed in depth, and it should just be signed off...

(Apparently he has now discovered some "fine print" he didn’t know about before...)
Frankly, I think IDS should do one. The financial terms as I understand them seem perfectly reasonable to me.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...al-settlement/

Quote:
Broadly speaking, the financial settlement can be split into three components:

During the transition period, until the end of 2020, the UK will pay into the EU budget almost as if it were a Member State. The UK will also receive funding from EU programmes – such as structural funding.

EU annual budgets commit to some future spending without making payments to recipients at the time. The commitments will become payments in the future. The UK will contribute towards the EU’s outstanding commitments as at 31 December 2020. Recipients in the UK will also receive funding for outstanding commitments made to them.

The UK will share the cost of EU liabilities that exist at the end of 2020, and any materialising contingent liabilities (potential liabilities that may occur depending on the outcome of an uncertain event in the future) entered into before its withdrawal, and will receive back a share of some assets. The pensions of EU staff are likely to be the most significant liabilities for the UK, while the most significant item being returned to the UK is the capital it paid into the European Investment Bank.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:40.
Page 228 of 369 « First 128178218224225226227 228 229230231232238278328 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum