Cable Forum - Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Ageeed and I think that's the point JFMan has been making too. Unfortunately for Labour, it seems they're stuck with a no-name English friend of Corbyn's to lead them in Scotland for some time to come.

Fundamentally they are a party that has taken their vote in Scotland for granted for far too long. Like the North of England and industrial towns and villages - they want to know who is looking out for their interests. It’s evidently not the Labour Party.

OLD BOY

08-09-2020 16:03

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36048879)

Good point here: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ion-different/

This time for No/Remain campaign cannot concede so easily on the question itself. It was a gift to the Yes campaign for them to be the Yes campaign. Better Together contorted itself in an attempt to frame itself as the more positive option.

It should be Remain/Leave as it was for the EU campaign.

Or maybe refresh our minds as to what the electorate said about leaving the UK a little while ago. :rolleyes:

jfman

08-09-2020 16:57

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36049111)

Or maybe refresh our minds as to what the electorate said about leaving the UK a little while ago. :rolleyes:

If (when?) the SNP keep winning elections it is irrelevant what the vote in 2014 said. A mandate is a mandate.

nomadking

08-09-2020 17:01

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Seeing as the SNP vote wasn't reflected in the referendum vote, that demonstrates there is NO automatic mandate for independence.

Sephiroth

08-09-2020 17:10

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36049122)

Seeing as the SNP vote wasn't reflected in the referendum vote, that demonstrates there is NO automatic mandate for independence.

What Nomad said.

jfman

08-09-2020 18:11

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

It’s a mandate to hold a vote, of course, not for independence.

nomadking

08-09-2020 18:18

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049133)

It’s a mandate to hold a vote, of course, not for independence.

And they've had a vote, a "once in a generation" one.

jfman

08-09-2020 18:36

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36049134)

And they've had a vote, a "once in a generation" one.

We’ve done this. That’s simply hyperbole - nowhere does such a concept exist in law. No Parliament being able to bind a future Parliament does however have a constitutional precedent.

To take your pointless example to ludicrous extreme what if the SNP got 95% of the vote? “Ah but once in a generation” is simply preposterous.

papa smurf

08-09-2020 18:43

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049137)

wasn't it the SNP that coined the phrase once in a lifetime vote.

jfman

08-09-2020 18:48

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36049138)

wasn't it the SNP that coined the phrase once in a lifetime vote.

Nobody is disputing that - however it has no legal standing. You don’t have to look far to see many politicians make statements they later renege on - that doesn’t deny the people of Scotland their right to vote for a party that backs another referendum.

In your example if I set up a political party and got 51% of the vote and seats - would I have a mandate because I’m not the SNP? Or should I and my voters be denied their democratic right over a glib one liner from an SNP poltician?

papa smurf

08-09-2020 19:07

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049140)

Nobody is disputing that - however it has no legal standing. You don’t have to look far to see many politicians make statements they later renege on - that doesn’t deny the people of Scotland their right to vote for a party that backs another referendum.

In your example if I set up a political party and got 51% of the vote and seats - would I have a mandate because I’m not the SNP? Or should I and my voters be denied their democratic right over a glib one liner from an SNP poltician?

i haven't given an example,but it's clear you believe the SNP sold the people a pack of lies with their once in a lifetime ploy.

OLD BOY

08-09-2020 19:50

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049121)

If (when?) the SNP keep winning elections it is irrelevant what the vote in 2014 said. A mandate is a mandate.

The SNP keep winning elections because the electorate regard the SNP as being their best choice of political party to vote for. It does not mean they support independence. Nicola Sturgeon knows that.

So mandate or no mandate, the referendum result is unlikely to be much different from what it was before. Unless the sensible Conservative Party can persuade the Scots that there is no economic case for separation, in which case it will be a lot different!

jfman

08-09-2020 19:53

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36049151)

The SNP keep winning elections because the electorate regard the SNP as being their best choice of political party to vote for. It does not mean they support independence. Nicola Sturgeon knows that.

And parties who win get to implement their manifestos. Chris, Max and I can vote in a referendum to argue about independence.

I don’t think Nicola Sturgeon does “know that” as you put it. There’d be no impetus to devote Government time to a Referendum Bill if she did.

OLD BOY

08-09-2020 19:59

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049152)

She has acknowledged that on a few occasions. Here is one of them, from straight after her landslide win.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nce-referendum

“I don’t pretend that every single person who voted SNP yesterday will necessarily support independence, but there has been a strong endorsement in this election of Scotland having a choice over our future; of not having to put up with a Conservative government we didn’t vote for and not having to accept life as a nation outside the EU,” she said.

jfman

08-09-2020 20:03

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36049153)

She has acknowledged that on a few occasions. Here is one of them, from straight after her landslide win.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nce-referendum

“I don’t pretend that every single person who voted SNP yesterday will necessarily support independence, but there has been a strong endorsement in this election of Scotland having a choice over our future; of not having to put up with a Conservative government we didn’t vote for and not having to accept life as a nation outside the EU,” she said.

That’s okay the 40% of Labour voters who support independence will make up the shortfall.

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