Cable Forum - Brexit (Old)

Professor David Andress has a new book out (Cultural Dementia), and I thought one of his lines summed up the ERG (Jacob Rees-Mogg, aka "Lord Snooty" et al), even though he wasn’t specifically talking about them.

Quote:

For far too long we in this country have thought we were richer, more powerful and, in general, better than we actually are. Now we find out the hard truth, exposed in all its gloomy detail by the EU talks. Will we learn the necessary lesson, or will we prefer our precious illusions?

He also comments on Mrs May attempts to deal with the poison chalice she was given, and here, I totally agree with him:

Quote:

Say what you like about Theresa May, and I have. But in this matter she has borne herself with dignity and integrity, a quiet, unshowy, resolute and very English sort of dogged courage of the kind I was brought up to admire.
She has peered over the abyss and knows what is there. Nobody else would have done any better.

jonbxx

19-11-2018 10:51

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35971394)

Peter Hitchens, a conservative author and journalist has a similar perspective to the above. He realises and is very honest about the decline of Britain's role in the world since Suez.

Here's a good recent article from him:

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co...res-about.html

He also comments on Mrs May attempts to deal with the poison chalice she was given, and here, I totally agree with him:

That was an interesting article and mirrors something I have been thinking about for a while - the end of the British Empire. Are we still going through the end or is what is happening now something new?

There are lots of theories on why the empire ended but they seem to revolve around economic stresses and local uprisings. You could say the Boer War or the partition of Ireland was the beginning of the end of empire but the real death throes were (in my opinion) the rise of a wealthy and more internationalist USA.

think we are still on the arc of the end of the British Empire. What the end state will be, who knows?

nomadking

19-11-2018 11:15

Re: Brexit

It's the EU that is obsessed on building an "empire".

Quote:

Mr Macron wants a more integrated EU, with a joint eurozone budget.
He also wants Germany's backing for a European Army, which he has said would reduce the bloc's dependence on the US, and a new tax on internet tech giants.

...
The French president acknowledged that unity could be "scary," and would mean nations pooling their funds and decision-making - but then asked: "Is it better to remain locked at a standstill?"
The French and German leaders met for talks after Mr Macron's speech, and were set to discuss migration, defence co-operation and tax structures for digital companies.
France and Germany are expected to unveil plans for a limited joint eurozone budget on Monday.

"pooling their funds and decision-making" of course means decisions made only by Germany and France.

Mr K	19-11-2018 12:16

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35971398)

It's the EU that is obsessed on building an "empire".
"pooling their funds and decision-making" of course means decisions made only by Germany and France.

Get used to it, with the proposed plan we'll be paying in and getting no say at all.

We need to rid ourselves of our paranoid xenophobia. Sometimes interests are mutual and acting together is more effective, particularly when dealing with the US, China etc. Little England will become an irrelevance.

nomadking

19-11-2018 12:29

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971404)

But the EU isn't about mutual interests, only the interests of Germany and France.

Quote:

Future relation European Council Guidelines-April 2017
paragraph 20
"Any free trade agreement should be balanced', ambitious and wide-ranging
... A level playing field must be ensured, notably in terms of
competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards
against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax; social,
environmental and regulatory measures and practices. "

Everybody has to be hamstrung by the same policies that Germany and France insist upon. The draft agreement continues that.

Mick	19-11-2018 13:05

Re: Brexit

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35971406)

But the EU isn't about mutual interests, only the interests of Germany and France.

Everybody has to be hamstrung by the same policies that Germany and France insist upon. The draft agreement continues that.

This clip of Guy Verhoftstadt insisting the transfer of Sovereign powers of the Member States, is transferred to the EU Institutions.

This is total corruption of the corrupted EU. It's power and domination and the erosion of total democracy. The UK Voted to leave the EU - but that cannot be allowed to happen, so they are making it exceptionally difficult to leave, it's a total sabotage of the leave process, creating a bullshit excuse with the Irish Border problem. But just look at this pathetic excuse for a man, Guy Verhofstadt.... this is the guy who is the European Parliament's representative in the Brexit negotiations.

Not a great fan of Memes but this one seems to be on par as to what the EU stands for....

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1542632178

Mr K	19-11-2018 13:13

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35971406)

But the EU isn't about mutual interests, only the interests of Germany and France.

Don't notice any other country desperate to leave, quite the opposite there are 5 waiting to join....

We arent the only ones to have concerns, but maybe others see reform of the EU as the way forward, not just running away into financial ruin/obscurity.

Mick	19-11-2018 13:18

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971409)

Don't notice any other country desperate to leave, quite the opposite there are 5 waiting to join....

We arent the only ones to have concerns, but maybe others see reform of the EU as the way forward, not just running away into financial ruin/obscurity.

Then UK Prime Minister in 2016, David Cameron, went to the EU to ask for reforms - he was denied and went away with virtually nothing on the table, they were insistent on NO change - they will not change, only for the worse - they want power and they will stop at nothing to get what they want, totally corruption at the highest of levels and now they want an army, something Nick Clegg said was a total fantasy.

Mr K	19-11-2018 13:21

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35971408)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1542632178

Oh dear that sums up the mentality of Brexiteers, they think it's 80 years ago and they're in a episode of Dads Army !

If anything the rise of nationalism and division is more likely to bring those days back. Churchill was one of the champions of the EU post WW2, so Western Europe would come together. He made a speech in 1946 calling for a United States of Europe ! He'd be a Remainer for sure.

Mick	19-11-2018 13:27

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971412)

Absolute bollocks - The EU did not exist when Churchill was alive.

And I will not tell you again about making provocative posts about other members mentality, do not question/insult mine again or your membership will be terminated!

He was a believer in Democracy and would have fulfilled the democratic decision taken on June 23rd 2016, without delay, that's for certain.

Dave42

19-11-2018 13:38

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35971413)

Absolute bollocks - The EU did not exist when Churchill was alive.

And I will not tell you again about making provocative posts about other members mentality, do not question/insult mine again or your membership will be terminated!

He was a believer in Democracy and would have fulfilled the democratic decision taken on June 23rd 2016, without delay, that's for certain.

true but he did do a speech calling for a united states of Europe Mick

http://www.churchill-society-london..../astonish.html

pip08456

19-11-2018 13:46

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35971412)

This speaech has frequently been brought up by remainers in a bid to prove that even Churchill avocated for Great Britain to be a part of the United States of Europe. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Conveniently there is never a link to the speech nor any quote from it other than what Mr K has posted.

So in the interests of clarity here is the most relevant quote and a link to the full speech. Make of it what you will.

Quote:

Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.

http://www.churchill-society-london..../astonish.html

Mr K	19-11-2018 13:50

Re: Brexit

However the Great Britain of today isn't the mighty World power of 1945. We need friends and allies more now than ever before. You got to question why the Russians were so happy about the Brexit vote.

Dave42

19-11-2018 13:52

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35971417)

If we are to form the United States of Europe or whatever name or form it may take, we must begin now.

If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.

there just 2 quotes in speech about united states of Europe so wrong again Pip im affraid

pip08456

19-11-2018 14:05

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35971419)

If we are to form the United States of Europe or whatever name or form it may take, we must begin now.

If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.

there just 2 quotes in speech about united states of Europe so wrong again Pip im affraid

What you mean is that there are only 2 quotes that fit your agenda.

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