Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

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Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36045762)

Yea but Donald got the worlds top job on the back of it;)

There is no accounting for taste l suppose..;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045753)

on your first paragraph, you’ve sort of nailed it. “The EU set out ....”. In other words their terms, cake and all. That’s my point.

On your 2nd paragraph, I believe their proximity argument to be spurious grounds for tight level playing field. My perception is that they want to punish us.

Our disagreement is fundamental on principle except, I hope, that the Canadian model is fine.

Not really cake and eat it. We left the EU and they offered us a priced-up Smörgåsbord to choose from. We're the third party now so can't expect to have the benefits of the single market without paying for it. Anything else reeks of pure entitlement.

And no, they're not really punishing us. They're protecting the Single Market which is everything to the EU. Even German car manufacturers are prepared to see the UK suffer adverse economic consequences if it keeps the Single Market intact. I really don't get this playing-the-victim stance. We're a 65-milion-person country so of course bigger blocs like the EU, US and China will try and boss us around. This was all known before the referendum. These complaints sound increasingly more and more like unconscious buyers' remorse.

But let's see how the negotiations go. I believe David Frost had a bit of a wake-up call when business recently convinced him they were serious about the bad effects of no-deal, and the negative impacts of even the best Brexit deal. BoJo's heart is not really in it, he wants an easy life with his new family and Brexit was just about handing him the keys to No. 10. And Cummings has moved onto his dream of using British tax-payers' money to compete with Eton Musk and Amazon through OneWeb.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

We agree to differ.

It is a pity that you come across as a justifier/apologist for the EU instead of supporting the UK's negotiating position.

You have conceded in your post that the EU, US & China will try to boss us around. Of course we must resist that with vigour.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045791)

My wish is that I come across as explaining the situation. I've said many times that I hope we get the best deal possible. As a smaller country, we sometimes have to be pragmatic, as we've seen with us yielding to US pressure on Huawei.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045793)

1. You've given more or less the same explanation for months. We get it.

2. Being pragmatic is one thing. Caving in to EU bullying is not tolerable imo.

All we want is the Canada deal. What's wrong with that?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045793)

I suppose we will be losing our G7 membership because we are such a small country then.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

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Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36045801)

I suppose we will be losing our G7 membership because we are such a small country then.

I’m sure you know that’s not how it works, as we were a founding member...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045797)

2. In all deals where there is a junior party, one party will potentially cave in. We saw that with BoJo and the withdrawal agrement where he caved into the EU although managed to fool quite a few people until the penny dropped.

The UK and Japan are currently set to sign a deal which Liz Truss is getting awfully excited about. However, Japan has made clear that it cannot be as ambitious as the one signed with the EU as the UK is a far smaller market. I call that one party in the negotiations having more power in strictly neutral language. You might prefer the use of more emotive language like bullying which is your choice.

3. I've explained to you why the EU has its red lines. It doesn't mean that I wish it didn't but it's only what was called Project Fear or Easiest Trade Deal Ever depending on who you chose to believe at the time.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:52 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36045802)

I’m sure you know that’s not how it works, as we were a founding member...

Exactly. Today's learning is that not everyone knows the difference between small and smaller.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Japan can pee off too, do we actually buy anything useful from them that nobody else can supply?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36045806)

Japan can pee off too, do we actually buy anything useful from them that nobody else can supply?

The stuff we won’t be able to get from China in Cold War 2. PlayStation 5.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36045802)

I’m sure you know that’s not how it works, as we were a founding member...

Oh wow so it doesn't matter how our economy is doing (covid considered) we are still a member?

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045804)

2. In all deals where there is a junior party, one party will potentially cave in. We saw that with BoJo and the withdrawal agrement where he caved into the EU although managed to fool quite a few people until the penny dropped.

The UK and Japan are currently set to sign a deal which Liz Truss is getting awfully excited about. However, Japan has made clear that it cannot be as ambitious as the one signed with the EU as the UK is a far smaller market. I call that one party in the negotiations having more power in strictly neutral language. You might prefer the use of more emotive language like bullying which is your choice.

3. I've explained to you why the EU has its red lines. It doesn't mean that I wish it didn't but it's only what was called Project Fear or Easiest Trade Deal Ever depending on who you chose to believe at the time.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:52 ----------

Exactly. Today's learning is that not everyone knows the difference between small and smaller.

As you should know by now, link please.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

A UK Japan Economic Partnership Agreement is an interesting one for two reasons;

This is really a three way deal between the UK, Japan and the EU. The supply chains for Japanese companies based in the UK (Nissan and Honda re the elephants on the room here) are predominantly EU based. The value and success of a UK-Japan agreement is very dependent on the success of a UK-EU agreement.

The second issue is the EU-Japan agreement has 'Most Favoured Nation' clauses which state that any concessions offered to a third country, the UK in this case, must also automatically be offered to the EU. The best possible deal the UK can get from Japan would match what the EU can get (whether the EU would necessarily accept/implement a MFN concession is a different thing of course)

This article explains this well - https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/202...mental-issues/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045804)

Quote:

What I was hoping to read was your agreement that bullying by the other party is not acceptable. That is a normal attitude to take. Instead, you come at it from the other side even going so far as to call us a "junior partner". You might think that the reality, but the majority of UK people do not like being bullied. Only Remainers come up with this "I told you so" crap instead of standing up for the UK as matters stand.

Quote:

3. I've explained to you why the EU has its red lines. It doesn't mean that I wish it didn't but it's only what was called Project Fear or Easiest Trade Deal Ever depending on who you chose to believe at the time.

You walked into that answer. My question was : "All we want is the Canada deal. What's wrong with that?". You dodged the answer. What is wrong with the Canada deal? You've only provided an answer from the EU perspective - and that is what is so wrong with many Remainers - still complaining that we've left the EU and its plans for integration.

Quote:

The UK and Japan are currently set to sign a deal which Liz Truss is getting awfully excited about. However, Japan has made clear that it cannot be as ambitious as the one signed with the EU as the UK is a far smaller market. I call that one party in the negotiations having more power in strictly neutral language. You might prefer the use of more emotive language like bullying which is your choice.

I can accept that a trade deal with Japan won't be as ambitious as the one they have with the EU - for the reasons you have given. But that is not the same situation as between the EU and the UK where we already have equivalence and they want to punish us; I rightly call that bullying. Japan doesn't want to punish us.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36045808)

As you should know by now, link please.

I'm surprised you've not come across this in your research already.
Please Google "UK and Japan rush to secure post-Brexit trade deal" and you will see the FT article concerned.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Plus this link for the UK Guvmin's position:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...tegic-approach