Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

He's the same in nearly every post mate, if you don't agree with his views then you are wrong!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Indeed, it specifically goes against the 'norms' we've established on referenda on constitutional matters.

The rest of the post is, broadly, confrontational. Indeed, had the EU drawn such arbitrary red (or blue) lines in terms of the UK future relationship withe the EU many on this forum would be furious.

---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

I've not said, in this thread, that anyone is out and out wrong. There's a few people misunderstanding how macroeconomic levers work, but I don't think they are approaching the discussion in bad faith.

Seph is, rightly I suppose, creating a high bar in England's interest (why wouldn't England seek to do so?) whether any reasonable person in Scotland would agree with them or not is a different matter.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The EU vs Scotland thing is a complete red herring and bear no relation to one another. For starters, the EU is trying to expand its centralised competencies whereas the UK is devolving them to its sub-nations.

As regards the high bar, that could, I suppose, be considered to be in the interests of Wales and NI as well. It's difficult to see, though, how that high bar benefits the rest of the UK. It simply tells the fools in Scotland who want to secede that they are on a road to disaster and don't expect any help from the British (or whatever you call it) tax payer. Really, sod 'em. Those who want to remain with the UK can emigrate south or west.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Little Jimmy Crankie is at it again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53938337

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

How long till that needs bailing out.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As the Scottish regional office of the UK Labour Party seeks out it’s tenth leader since devolution how long before they realise they are out of touch with voters on the constitution?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What about the other 50%, are they out of touch with the SNP?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...oters-lost-snp

I care not for the Labour regional office in Scotland, but the evidence is that it has lost, and will continue to lose voters unless it finds itself a new position. In 2019 just shy of 40% of their own voters favoured independence. It’s position is untenable. Changing leader is just shuffling the deck chairs.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ndence-1402354

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That doesn't mean that they will automatically vote in favour of the SNP.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They may not, however that’s irrelevant to my point. Labour is floundering, it’s current position isn’t viable. They must, rationally, look at it and wonder how they can win elections in the future. Or are they resigned to their long term fate?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Labour in Scotland has had the ground swept from beneath its feet because the SNP stole its message. As of right now, there is a belief in the favelas of North Lanarkshire and Dundee that only an independent Scotland can deliver the sort of welfarism Labour spent the entire 20th century telling them was their right. They believe this because that’s the message the SNP went big on in the 2014 referendum. For the same reason, the SNP vote in other parts of Scotland has become soft and vulnerable to the Tories.

The SNP has shaken off the “Tartan Tory” jibe of the late 20th century by presenting themselves as the Tartan Socialists of the 21st. I freely admit, if they ever manage to unite left and right around a convincing separatist narrative, they probably would win an Indyref, and do so fairly convincingly. Thus far they have failed to do so, however. Their biggest failure in 2014 was to concentrate far too much on the daily politics of an independent Scotland, with the so-called white paper reading more like a 1970s Labour party manifesto than the vision statement it needed to be.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think you’ve half hit the point. Daddy voted Labour and Grandad voted Labour are no longer going to keep the party afloat in Scotland. The “favelas”, as you put it, don’t see a Labour Party acting in their interests, or even pretending to any longer in Scotland.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

More disaster for the Scottish branch of the UK Labour Party as Sir Keir’s efforts to remove Richard Leonard fall on deaf ears. Some unelected Lords preach the best thing for the party after Rachel Reeves does - but doesn’t - tell him to go.

Train drivers union backs Leonard calling it a Blairite putsch.

Oh dear...