Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

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Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Apparently Ian Duncan-Smith doesn’t like the thing he voted for...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36045598)

Apparently Ian Duncan-Smith doesn’t like the thing he voted for...

Well that's understandable really.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36045598)

Apparently Ian Duncan-Smith doesn’t like the thing he voted for...

He sums up the entitled cake-and-eat-it brigade.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045588)

automatically do, but if they select a Republic of Ireland passport then would this mean they would?

That's what I meant, they would need to get an Irish passport, which they are entitled to do. So it's semantics really.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045606)

He [IDS] sums up the entitled cake-and-eat-it brigade.

Is that right? Surely it is the EU now that are the cake-and-eat-it brigade?

1. They want to keep our fish;

2. They want to eat our competivity (!) cake by tying our hands behind our backs;

3. They want the ECJ to govern us in certain respects.

All we want is a free trade agreement and sovereignty over what's ours.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045614)

Nope. Its we who left the EU and not the other way round. We knew what we voted for, that is unless our name was Iain Duncan Smith. ;)

1. They're happy to accept a phased withdrawal from British waters, not a sudden one that would lead to livelihoods being lost overnight. 2/3 of fish UK fishermen catch is sold to the EU so a no-deal Brexit would result in many of our own fishermen losing their livelihoods too.

2. We lost our competitivity when we said we would leave the EEA. Now, our manufacturers have to battle with increased red tape. The EU just wants to stop unfair state socialist subsidies such as those favoured by the terrible two Cs - Corbyn and Cummings. Canada signed up to this for its trade deal and I encourage the UK to step up and do the same.

3. Any agreement needs to be enforceable. If you've got an established means in place then it makes sense to use it and start building costly alternatives.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045616)

Quote:

1. They're happy to accept a phased withdrawal from British waters, not a sudden one that would lead to livelihoods being lost overnight. 2/3 of fish UK fishermen catch is sold to the EU so a no-deal Brexit would result in many of our own fishermen losing their livelihoods too.

I'm sure a phased withdrawal would be acceptable - but where has that been published? Au contraire, see https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-to-uk-waters - they want our cake.

Quote:

2. We lost our competitivity when we said we would leave the EEA. Now, our manufacturers have to battle with increased red tape. The EU just wants to stop unfair state socialist subsidies such as those favoured by the terrible two Cs - Corbyn and Cummings. Canada signed up to this for its trade deal and I encourage the UK to step up and do the same.

Why are you are you siding with the EU? You pray in aid to your argument the CETA treaty. I might stand corrected, but from my research (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compre...perty%20rights.) CETA's level playing field only extends to intellectual property rights. If you are wrong, where does that leave your argument?

Quote:

3. Any agreement needs to be enforceable. If you've got an established means in place then it makes sense to use it and start building costly alternatives.

What? What does that mean, especially in the cake-and-it-it context?

I'm really disappointed as you normally have something sensible to put forward.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045618)

What I've highlighted is the fundamental difference between Remainers and the rest of the population. We cannot divorce the reasons of the majority of voters who supported Brexit from the expectation that we will control our own affairs.

You, and Remainers on the other hand, do not accept that a sovereign UK should be fully in control of its laws, waters and behaviours. And you Remainers seem to dodge addressing this aspect, possibly for fear of being accused of being happy to let the EU govern us in part.

I'm sure a phased withdrawal would be acceptable - but where has that been published? Au contraire, see https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-to-uk-waters - they want our cake.

Why are you are you siding with the EU? You pray in aid to your argument the CETA treaty. I might stand corrected, but from my research (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compre...perty%20rights.) CETA's level playing field only extends to intellectual property rights. If you are wrong, where does that leave your argument?

What? What does that mean, especially in the cake-and-it-it context?

I'm really disappointed as you normally have something sensible to put forward.

I will try and clarify the other aspects later when I have more time. In the meantime, here's how CETA helps level the playing field. https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in...eta-explained/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045619)

I will try and clarify the other aspects later when I have more time. In the meantime, here's how CETA helps level the playing field. https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in...eta-explained/

So as to assist your fuller response, the level-playing field provision only applies to IPR whereas your claim was much wider (see below).

Quote:

The EU just wants to stop unfair state socialist subsidies such as those favoured by the terrible two Cs - Corbyn and Cummings. Canada signed up to this for its trade deal and I encourage the UK to step up and do the same

Best to back out of that one quickly so we can forget about it.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

You voted for the agreement, you can't ask to change the terms now. Tough do-do.

You'll get zero sympathy from any remoaners because we absolutely told you it was a crap deal and you still wanted it.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Kush - we are not talking about the Withdrawal Agreement. Some of its terms do survive 31-12-20 but that has little to do with the trade talks.

Or have I misunderstood you?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045660)

Kush - we are not talking about the Withdrawal Agreement. Some of its terms do survive 31-12-20 but that has little to do with the trade talks.

Or have I misunderstood you?

That's what IDS is talking about, isn't it? He wants the EU to change the terms of the WA that Parliament signed.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045660)

Kush - we are not talking about the Withdrawal Agreement. Some of its terms do survive 31-12-20 but that has little to do with the trade talks.

Or have I misunderstood you?

The items IDS isn’t happy about are part of the Withdrawal Agreement (according to him).

btw, this is what he said previously, which kind of negates his point about "small print"...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045620)

So as to assist your fuller response, the level-playing field provision only applies to IPR whereas your claim was much wider (see below).

Best to back out of that one quickly so we can forget about it.

Seph, I'm afaid that link slips below your usual standards. I can only attribute this to be shock at Iain Duncan Smith feigning ignorance of a withdrawal agreement he was praising to the high horses before! He showed contempt for voters and he has rightly been called out on this.

My previous link to the original document demonstrates the Canadian deal was more than IP. This is a pertinent extract: https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/sta...454401/photo/1
I think it's logical that the EU wouldn't want a heavily subsidised socialist state on its doorstep with easy entry into the single market or a highly de-regulated one with very low standards. Thanks to such tight negotiating deadlines, the EU can afford to push for an even stronger level playing field. You may recall that the Canadian deal took some seven years to arrange.

I'm more interested in the now and what you think about Iain Duncan Smith's apparent change of heart or memory loss?