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-   -   Trump’s Troubles (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33711548)

Pierre 30-12-2023 22:10
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36167509)
Pure Devil's Advocate stuff here:-
  • January 6th wasn't an insurrection
  • January 6th was an insurrection, but it had nothing to do with him
  • Even if it were an insurrection - he's not been convicted by any authority for it (including his impeachment)
  • Election officials aren't the proper arbiter for this in the absence of a conviction
  • the 14th Amendment wasn't designed to be employed in a party political way (were election officials party apparatus when it passed?)
I'm not saying I buy any of the above - but would these be a comprehensive list of his arguments?
For me, I would just go with point no.1


It was a riot and a low level one at that. nothing more ,nothing less.

Hugh 30-12-2023 22:21
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...b2470669.html#

Quote:
Trump team flew fake elector ballots to DC ahead of Jan 6, report says

Donald Trump's campaign team physically flew "fake elector" ballots across the country to Washington DC in a last-ditch effort to overturn the 2020 election, a new report claims.

According to CNN, leaked witness testimony from a Michigan state investigation shows how Mr Trump's aides scrambled to deliver the allegedly fraudulent paperwork to vice president Mike Pence before he could certify the election results.

The so-called "fake electors" plot hinged on the fact that American presidents are not directly elected by the people, but rather by 538 "electors" who are selected by their states based on the outcome of the vote.

Mr Trump's team allegedly pressured state legislators to ignore the vote and choose their electors by fiat. When that did not work, they assembled their own group of electors with no legal standing and pushed vice president Mike Pence to accept it instead of the real ones.

Multiple people have been criminally charged for their involvement in this scheme, and one – pro-Trump lawyer Kenneth Chesebro – has pled guilty to conspiring to file false documents.

Now, audio clips from Mr Chesebro's testimony released by CNN appear to show that Mr Trump's team went to the trouble of flying the fake electors' paperwork across the country in order to get them in front of Mr Pence before the election result was certified.

Hugh 03-01-2024 15:38
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Trump attorney Christina Bobb: “The president is elected by the entire nation and it should be the entire nation who determines who they want for president, whether they are guilty of insurrection or not.”
https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

Chris 03-01-2024 16:15
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36167708)
This is base constitutional illiteracy. The president is elected by the States, who in turn poll their citizens in order to direct the electors the states send to DC - the electors whose work there is now screeds of evidence Trump tried to interfere with, even before whipping up a mob to prevent their votes being certified on January 6.

Even if she was correct on the constitutional procedure, Trump rather awkwardly lost the popular vote in 2016 and in 2020, so he maybe doesn’t really want a system in which the actual votes cast by individual citizens translate directly to support for one candidate or another.

Hugh 05-01-2024 22:20
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
https://wapo.st/3vqlheR

Quote:
The Supreme Court said Friday it will decide whether former President Donald Trump’s name can appear on primary-election ballots, a case that ensures the justices will play a central role in shaping this year’s presidential election.


The decision to review the case from Colorado at oral argument in early February comes after that state’s top court disqualified the Republican frontrunner, finding Trump engaged in an insurrection before and during the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.


Friday’s announcement puts the justices in a pivotal, potentially uncomfortable position with echoes of the court’s involvement in the 2000 election when its decision assured victory for President George W. Bush, polarized the nation and damaged the court’s reputation as an independent institution.


The court’s brief order scheduled oral argument for Feb. 8, and came the day before the third anniversary of the Capitol riot.

jfman 06-01-2024 00:12
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Popcorn time.

Hom3r 07-01-2024 10:56
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
I think that Trump will win.


Then the UK/US special friendship will become a bit frosty.


I'm not sure about Trump/Putin.

Hugh 09-01-2024 15:55
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
https://wapo.st/3SaUsny

Quote:
In a potentially worrisome sign for former president Donald Trump, the three-judge panel’s lone Republican appointee, Karen Henderson, told Trump’s attorney, “I think it’s paradoxical to say that his [a president’s] constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed allows him to violate criminal laws.”


Judges Karen Henderson and Florence Pan both raised a point made in the special counsel’s briefs — that Donald Trump is now making the exact opposite argument to the one he made during his 2021 impeachment trial, when his lawyers told senators that a former president should face the criminal justice system rather than condemnation by Congress.


Trump attorney D. John Sauer replied that the impeachment lawyers were simply saying, “We have a judicial process in this country, period,” but they “did not say we could never raise an immunity defense.”


Pan replied with a quote from one of Trump’s impeachment attorneys saying definitively that there was no immunity: “We have an investigative process in this country to which no former officeholder is immune.”


Sauer said he was not bound by Trump’s past arguments, but also tried to split hairs by saying investigation was different from prosecution.

Mr K 09-01-2024 18:15
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
The only people winning are lawyers. The US justice system is biased , politicised and bonkers like the rest of the country. Every chance of guilty going free, and the innocent going down, depending on their wealth...

Pierre 09-01-2024 19:47
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36167989)
The only people winning are lawyers. The US justice system is biased , politicised and bonkers like the rest of the country. Every chance of guilty going free, and the innocent going down, depending on their wealth...
Much like the U.K. then.

Mr K 09-01-2024 20:22
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36168008)
Much like the U.K. then.
Our justice system isn't perfect, but a lot better than the US.

jfman 09-01-2024 21:20
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
If he doesn’t get elected he’s got a career in stand up ahead of him.

https://x.com/metalgearobama/status/...PUAs_rNhQLBD9Q

(With apologies I can’t find a link not on X)

1andrew1 09-01-2024 21:53
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36168026)
If he doesn’t get elected he’s got a career in stand up ahead of him.

https://x.com/metalgearobama/status/...PUAs_rNhQLBD9Q

(With apologies I can’t find a link not on X)
I can't disagree with that! :tu:

He may even find he has a captive audience before the year is out! :D

Pierre 09-01-2024 22:34
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36168023)
Our justice system isn't perfect, but a lot better than the US.
Tell that to the post masters.

mrmistoffelees 09-01-2024 23:11
Re: Trump’s Troubles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36168030)
Tell that to the post masters.
Tell that to the Over 2400 people who have been exonerated in the United States since 1989. When it comes to the number of wrongful convictions, the US is the undisputed leader,


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