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-   -   Crisis in the NHS (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704264)

Ramrod 02-01-2018 23:25
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
The NHS has been a badly managed and badly staffed shambles since at least the mid 90's. The recent 'cuts to it's funding' that some people bang on about are imo a red herring deflecting from the way it's been run and staffed for the last three decades. It wasn't fit for purpose back then and nothing has changed since.

nomadking 02-01-2018 23:32
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
The problem is that they can never predict when exactly any increase in demand is going to occur. Impossible to plan ahead for. the alternative to cancelled ops, is to not plan any ops over the winter months. More money won't solve anything as there's supposed to be a staff shortage.

1andrew1 03-01-2018 00:02
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35930787)
The problem is that they can never predict when exactly any increase in demand is going to occur. Impossible to plan ahead for. the alternative to cancelled ops, is to not plan any ops over the winter months. More money won't solve anything as there's supposed to be a staff shortage.
More money would enable salaries to be increased which would enable the vacancies to be filled as the roles would be more attractive.

nomadking 03-01-2018 00:14
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35930788)
More money would enable salaries to be increased which would enable the vacancies to be filled as the roles would be more attractive.
So what other higher paid jobs are these people doing?

Are these mythical staff going to sit around most of the year waiting for when, or if, a peak in demand occurs?

1andrew1 03-01-2018 00:24
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35930789)
So what other higher paid jobs are these people doing?
A range of other roles. Once salaries and conditions favour the NHS then those positions will be filled. It's a case of supply and demand.

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35930789)
Are these mythical staff going to sit around most of the year waiting for when, or if, a peak in demand occurs?
Mythical? What on earth do you mean by that?
Regarding the second point, we're talking about filling vacancies not employing people for the sake of it.

nomadking 03-01-2018 00:36
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
There is a lack of medical staff generally throughout the Western world. Most countries have to import staff. Pay has little to do with it and nothing to do with a peak in demand which unpredictable in its timing.

1andrew1 03-01-2018 00:42
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35930794)
There is a lack of medical staff generally throughout the Western world. Most countries have to import staff. Pay has little to do with it and nothing to do with a peak in demand which unpredictable in its timing.
If you want people, you give them the best pay and conditions that you can afford. If you have to compete internationally for talent then you have to be prepared to pay accordingly for it. Paying staff poor wages as others have described in this post won't attract or retain staff.
We're talking here about filling all the unfilled vacancies through making roles more attractive, not about Winter time demand projections.

denphone 03-01-2018 05:21
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35930771)
I have no problem paying more tax for a better service, but why is the the default position? Why not consider the German or French models, which work well, and the funding comes from multiple sources, including taxation?

Something needs to be done, but just to roll out the old shibboleths stops progress - we need to think differently, with a growing aging population.
l agree but can you see our politicians from whatever political persuasion thinking differently with their set ideological dogma?.

TheDaddy 03-01-2018 09:08
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35930763)
It's a shambles Mick and I hope your nephew gets better soon.

This has been coming for a long time, the NHS has been relying on luck. It's wake up time for the general public, if you want an NHS you're going to have to pay more tax. It's a message the Tory party won't give as they are quite happy to see it fail, and cut taxes for the rich. Even if they have private health care many don't realise they'll get transferred back to the NHS if they are seriously ill (sometimes having to endure life threatening transfers between hospitals).
I've a suggestion I'm going to stick on the side of a bus

we send the BBC 71 million per week let's spend that on the NHS instead

Mr K 03-01-2018 09:19
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35930787)
The problem is that they can never predict when exactly any increase in demand is going to occur. Impossible to plan ahead for. the alternative to cancelled ops, is to not plan any ops over the winter months. More money won't solve anything as there's supposed to be a staff shortage.
It can be predicted and this crisis was predicted. The Flu was going to be bad this year, forecast months ago, coupled with the Xmas break, cold weather, staff shortages and ageing population, it really isn't rocket science. We just haven't invested enough or employed and trained enough staff in the NHS. Poor management maybe a factor, but it's being used as a smokescreen to try and get away from the fact we're not paying or valuing the NHS or it's staff enough.

On top of that we've got a govt. who have an agenda to run the NHS down. Jeremy Hunt is very quiet, probably waiting for this promotion to Deputy PM having achieved all his objectives no doubt.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...size=375%2c250

tweetiepooh 03-01-2018 11:45
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35930813)
I've a suggestion I'm going to stick on the side of a bus

we send the BBC 71 million per week let's spend that on the NHS instead
That'll buy 2 boxes of plasters and a box to put them in.

The NHS needs to be more efficient but if you try they'll pay a fortune on efficiency experts and on monitoring how efficient they are.

Hugh 03-01-2018 13:35
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35930814)
It can be predicted and this crisis was predicted. The Flu was going to be bad this year, forecast months ago, coupled with the Xmas break, cold weather, staff shortages and ageing population, it really isn't rocket science. We just haven't invested enough or employed and trained enough staff in the NHS. Poor management maybe a factor, but it's being used as a smokescreen to try and get away from the fact we're not paying or valuing the NHS or it's staff enough.

On top of that we've got a govt. who have an agenda to run the NHS down. Jeremy Hunt is very quiet, probably waiting for this promotion to Deputy PM having achieved all his objectives no doubt.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...size=375%2c250
So why don't we try a different model, like the French or German ones?

Because people will scream "privatisation", when in fact, the models are a mixture of public, private not-for-profit, and private. As long as the service is free at the point of use, which was the original NHS maxim, who cares how it is delivered.

Anything but the USA model, which is the biggest cause of bankruptcy for that country.

papa smurf 03-01-2018 14:08
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35930825)
So why don't we try a different model, like the French or German ones?

Because people will scream "privatisation", when in fact, the models are a mixture of public, private not-for-profit, and private. As long as the service is free at the point of use, which was the original NHS maxim, who cares how it is delivered.

Anything but the USA model, which is the biggest cause of bankruptcy for that country.
I think your right , we can't go on like this it's just not working .

pip08456 03-01-2018 14:35
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35930825)
So why don't we try a different model, like the French or German ones?

Because people will scream "privatisation", when in fact, the models are a mixture of public, private not-for-profit, and private. As long as the service is free at the point of use, which was the original NHS maxim, who cares how it is delivered.

Anything but the USA model, which is the biggest cause of bankruptcy for that country.
The NHS needs rebuilding from the ground up. It would be a mammoth task for any Government to take on and probaibly encounter massive resistance.

Osem 03-01-2018 14:37
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35930827)
The NHS needs rebuilding from the ground up. It would be a mammoth task for any Government to take on and probaibly encounter massive resistance.
... and those are precisely the reasons it'll probably never happen sadly.


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