re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Wee Nippy's threats of a fresh referendum in the event of a vote to leave the EU is a lot of hot air. It's party management, pure and simple. There are about 100,000 permanently outraged Yessers in the ranks of the SNPee now and the last thing she wants is them getting rowdy, or worse, defenestrating her for not being nationalist enough. So, she plays to the gallery and keeps them hanging on.

Meanwhile, those in the nationalist movement with a brain (and there are some), know that the fundamentals of Scottish independence have not changed. For most Scottish voters it is a simple calculation of convenience, primarily economic convenience. Scots may prefer the EU, but they know that being in the UK, even if it is outside the EU, is preferable to being in the EU but outside the UK. The arguments over economic and monetary policy in 2014 were decisive and have not changed (if anything they have got worse, and it doesn't help the Nats that some of those that drew up the so-called white paper have now admitted that they knew it was nonsense on stilts even then).

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Given they'd also be obliged to join Schengen absolutely.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If we weren't somewhat 'in' as far as we are already and the question was simply: "should we join the EU?" .......the answer would be "NO" (or words to that effect) :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The answer can still be the same. there is that much media crap around the in/out of the EU and tons of stuff the gov is feeding us that is right and wrong information coupled with the fact that most of the country doesn't actually know what fully goes on with the EU it is difficult to make a decision.

As a country long before the EU we have managed to succeed I certainly can't see why we can't do it again. The only thing that bothers me is will we still be protected under working rights and family rights or will the gov see being out of the EU and setting their own laws a witch hunt against the population.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Full report here

Thus nailing the lie that the UK would suffer outside the EU, wheras in reality the EU has failed us.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Sir Michael Caine backs Brexit:

Linky

I heard the interview on R4 Today programme. Sir Michael was quite firm. :tu:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well if the Eurocrats have embarked upon a behind the scenes campaign to manage the situation and thereby steer the UK into remaining, they're doing a pretty poor job. Just about every week which goes by brings a new example of EU ineptitude, dithering, infighting, procrastination or flawed thinking and I have a feeling things are going to get worse, much worse.

If the EU was a sinking ship I don't think its numerous masters would even get around to rearranging the deckchairs, let alone successfully evacuating it...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If I didn't want out before the tobacco products directive would have swung me never has there been such a bad piece of legislation and demonstrates all that is wrong with the EU, that said draft proposals by some within our political system are more disgusting. As the referendum comes closer I expect things to get dirtier and nastier and if we do vote to come out I expect Cameron to squirm trying to delay the exit as long as he can. Just give us the vote now and let's be done with it we all know Cameron isn't going to get anything really significant in terms of reform he'll get mud and try to dress it up as gold.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Leaving will not be a quick process as all sorts of things will have to be negotiated and put in place before the transition can be completed. There may even be protracted legal challenges to some of what would be necessary and that would inevitably delay things.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The Out campaign wants a second referendum that would theoretically take place once all everything is ready to act as a trigger to leave or abandon the process and stay in. Although this is effectively just a strategy to 'derisk' the referendum (people would be far more willing to vote to leave if there is the option to decide not too later on) it does also show the complexity of what is too come.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Sounds like just another opportunity for us to give the 'right' answer if we get it 'wrong' first time around... ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well the Pro-EU side might do that if they lose, at the moment they need to make sure this vote carries a lot of weight. I.E "We will leave and it will be bad so think very carefully". That's also why they said the other day that the Treasury has 'no backup plans' if we leave.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's quite clear to me that the IN lot are going to try all sorts of tactics to get their way. Having said that, the EU continues, almost daily, to provide cast iron reasons why we should get out. The really big genie, uncontrolled migration, is of course out of its bottle and no amount of economic scaremongering by the likes of Stuart Rose will alter that.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The OUT side are looking increasingly desperate. Divided, disorganised with key players bought off or silenced. The UK isn't leaving the EU, its not going to be allowed, the 'referendum' is irrelevant. Quite right too, Dave's playing a blinder on this one, he's gone up in my estimation.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Outside the EU we can trade with other countries with the EU telling us if we can.

Plus we can send paedophiles to prison for whole life with out the EU saying its not legal.