Re: The energy crisis
 

It does but we have decided its better to have more expensive energy without power cuts than the other way round, politically less damaging.

Re: The energy crisis
 

More to the point, clearly shows we are a long long way from no longer using fossil fuels for generation, and are not going to be there in 7 years time.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I've just reread the notes I made when I first joined Octopus from OVO who totally messed up everything possible so my first bill covered 13 weeks. I didn't have a smart meter and the Octopus helpline guy suggested I send in a reading on the 6th of each month as my DD was paid on the 1st. This seemed to sort thing out for us and since having the smart meter fitted the bills have continued to be from the 7th of the month up to the following 6th.

I'd forgotten just what a nightmare it was, guess the relief at finally gettting away from OVO deadened the pain. Final insult was I had to get the Energy Ombudsman involved to get my money back.

If you haven't already found the Handover page it could be worth having a read.
https://octopus.energy/blog/handover-meter-readings/

Re: The energy crisis
 

We are getting a new boiler installed today as the old one sprung a leak and at nearly 20 years old. We decided to replace rather than fix considering the cost of repair. It will be interesting to see what impact a newer more efficient boiler will have on the gas bill.

Interestingly, the boiler can be used for blended gas and hydrogen (up to 20% hydrogen) so a nice bit of futureproofing is in place too considering we would like this boiler to last as long as the last one.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My new boiler does seem to use less (not a fantastic amount less) but still welcome.

Re: The energy crisis
 

There was a guy on GB news this morning (Yes, breakfast with Eamon and Isabel is my preferred viewing).

He was on there to promote the use of heat pumps, but he advised that a heat pump should not be the only source heating in a property, especially in an older property, because they're just not up to the job 365/7/24.

When asked if he had one, he said no.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

A slight diversion from the topic but we saw the issue on Sunday too. We arranged an engineer through Boxt who came on Tuesday afternoon and diagnosed the expansion vessel as the issue. It might have been the heat exchanger and he held these in his van. We got a full quote Tuesday evening and decided not to go ahead with the repair so I called Boxt yesterday who did a quote for the new boiler, knocking off the call-out charge for the engineer and the new boiler was up and running by 2pm today.

I always like to call out good service and this was a cracking example so Boxt is a definite recommendation for me

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not sure I'd employ him to sell anything :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

The problem isn’t the heat pump, it’s the assumptions behind the design of almost every house built in this country and still standing, with the exception of only the very newest.

The assumption is that Britain will always have access to an abundant supply of cheap fuel and it goes all the way back to the Industrial Revolution which was fired by coal, and then the 20th century dash for natural gas. The solution has always been to add heat to the house faster than it can lose it. We have always been able to do that because burning coal or gas has been cheap.

Heat pumps are widely used in Scandinavian countries even in older houses because they have been willing to insulate their houses adequately at the build stage. It is harder to make an economic case for them here because retrofitting the necessary insulation and, ideally, underfloor heating that is most effective at lower temperatures, is very expensive.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Apart from those in the colder, northern end, how much of Scandinavian houses of the past, were well insulated? They have plenty of trees to burn.


In the past, the whole house was rarely heated. People gathered in 1 or 2 rooms.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You really need to find a better hobby than being a contrarian.

Feel free to do the necessary research to answer your own question. ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well, when I lived in West Berlin in the 70s and 80s, the flats we were in in RAF Gatow (which had been built in the 50s) had triple glazing, between floor insulation, wall insulation, and thick insulated doors at the entrance to the building and the individual flats, and when I visited colleagues in other parts of West Berlin, that seemed standard…

Re: The energy crisis
 

I actually got as far as finding at least anecdotal evidence for triple glazing being commonplace in Norway as far back as the mid 1950s, and typical insulation depths and specifications, before I decided I couldn’t be bothered getting sucked in to feeding Nomad’s knee-jerk gainsaying of anything he reads on here.

There’s tons of material online for anyone who’s genuinely interested in learning stuff rather than just picking fights.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My house was built in 1931 - Insulation ? not really a thing then.

Its not even got proper cavity walls you can fill (downstairs they managed ok, upstairs, not so much. We did at least manage to get decent loft insulation.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I know my house was pre WW1. So yes very old.

Insulation wise its horrid, grade F on certificate, single glazed wooden framed windows, and no wall insulation.

Like Chris said, people make assumptions that every home is equal when they talk about types of heating and heating costs, those all go out the window in my home (along with the heat).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Edwardian terrace with high ceilings, cast iron guttering, damp and dry rot you'll find one day? On Homes under the Hammer, they'd say you have a home with period features and character. They never mention they are freaking freezing.

Re: The energy crisis
 

When I came back from a weekend away during cold spell early December my room temp was 3C, I felt a gust of cold air walking in to the property.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I know that feeling :eek:. I moved.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I highly recommend getting a smart thermostat fitted, you may be able to do it yourself.

I have the basic setup of a Tado which just replaces the thermostat in my hall, this lets me turn the heating off and on when away from home, so when i went away at Christmas for a week it was set to away mode which is basically off until the house temp drops lower than 10c and before a 3hr drive home i switched the heating on from Wales.

I fear you will get burst pipes if you let your house get that cold!!!

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yeah, my hive has a "frost" setting, so if the temperature falls below a certain level, the heating will trigger, even if its turned off.

[ I can also control it remotely, via the App, Web or Alexa ]

Re: The energy crisis
 

When I was selling my late mum's house, the insurance we got to cover it while it was empty required the heating to be set to 10c.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yesterday's lecky prices, free 0p per unit during some of the night, Tonite they will probably be negative. What can we turn on to make money? Isn't it crazy?
Too much wind at the north sea...

Re: The energy crisis
 

Has anyone switched to an Air Source Heat Pump (from a Gas boiler) and if so, what can they advise in terms of lessons learnt, pros & cons, etc?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

I did extensive research into heat pumps before eventually installing a wood pellet biomass system because the heat loss at my old house was awful and remedying it was non-trivial due to its construction. At the time I was looking at ground source with a borehole and sealed loop collectors due to lack of available land for trenched ground loop collectors and the relatively poor efficiency of air source heat pumps at the time.

However, that was 15 years ago and in that time, air source heat pumps have become as efficient as ground source pumps were back then. So I’m guessing what I learned then pertains to what you need to do now, which is get a surveyor out who is qualified to do a full heat loss survey on your house (ideally the one where they tape up your front door with plastic sheeting and blow warm air into the property). Find out exactly what the heat requirement for your house is, then get a heat pump installer to specify and cost quote a system for you based on that precise requirement.

Discuss with them whether you’re sticking with radiators, and how much larger the panels will need to be in each room (if at all - if your rads are very old, simply replacing them with super-modern efficient ones *might* be enough). Consider whether you’d like to switch to underfloor heating, downstairs at least. This is the most efficient way to heat a home and is ideally suited to the lower heat output of a heat pump.

As I said, all of this research led us not to go ahead with it, as we learned our house was particularly ill suited. So I can’t advise you on what actually happens when you put one in. But it is definitely worth doing the research.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Anyone here received any insulation grants yet? I understand it's quite a slow process, but I'm getting impatient! Has anyone else applied and heard anything back yet? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Waiting to hear back about my insulation grant application and it's been a few weeks now. I've heard that some people have had success, but I'm not sure what criteria they used. Has anyone else received grants or know what factors are taken into consideration? It would be really helpful to hear other people's experiences!

Cheers

Re: The energy crisis
 

Was even windy here today, when its windy in my part of the country you know its very windy elsewhere lol, as we very rarely get wind.

Will take the cheap/free energy thanks. :)

Love the agile tariff.

---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------

I am waiting for double glazing grants, but it feels like the government assumes everyone already has double glazing. Its the only way my LL will fit it, if its been paid for him.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Have two , it's what the expert abvised , and have no problems at all , best advise I can offer is to check out the company that puts it in. Caveat it's not cheap :D nagged by eco set of girls !!!

Re: The energy crisis
 

Wouldn't it be easier to rent a place with double glazing than than wait for it to get fitted, unless your rent is cheap?

Re: The energy crisis
 

From the limited research I have done already, I would tend to agree with you at this point. From what I can see, the devil is in the detail and this is rarely discussed on the information I can see in the public domain.

Thanks so much for taking the time to detail your past experience. Our house is a 1906 semi but with (old-ish) cavity wall insulation and a modern loft conversion, so it sort of meets the minimum bar. However saying that, the energy rating is probably about a D, most in our road are D.

Our rads are modern but would need some replacing with a larger "footprint" to accommodate the lower heating flow temperatures. We had a quote from Octopus who seem hot (!) on this at the moment. This came in approx 6.5k inc. fitting and new rads where required. Our concerns are how the new (external) unit integrates with the current 22mm CH circuit and so what additional building work is needed to interface into the current circuits, given the current Combi is on the 1st floor.

The other concern is the noise of the unit as we are close to our neighbours and we would not want to create a noise problem. Given that our Combi is still under the 10yr warranty, my instinct is that this is a no for us at this house. I can see though, sooner rather than later, Electricity costs decoupling from Gas given that our Wind, etc. provision will increase significantly and so this option becoming more price competitive.

It is always good to get other's opinions and hear their experiences. It helps to validate (or not) your instincts.

Re: The energy crisis
 

No problem :)

I would say if you have a modern gas boiler, on mains gas and in good working order, now is not the time. Even when your current boiler comes up for replacement you might find we’ve switched to a hybrid methane-hydrogen mains gas network that will allow you to continue with most of your present installation.

My gut feeling is that beyond a certain date all new build houses are going to be compelled to be all electric, for cooking as well as heating, and that heat pumps will be mandated, but for a variety of reasons it will be a long, long time before they become very widespread on older housing stock. I should add, despite the house construction our next door neighbours installed an air-source heat pump about a year before we sold and moved on, and they opted to sacrifice a little internal living space in order to do the necessary insulation (building the walls in rather than out, given the difficulty of doing anything with the timber shiplap exterior wall). I never heard their unit operate, but it wasn’t exactly right under our noses and I did note that they had it placed as far from their house as possible, presumably at the installer’s suggestion. So yes, in confined urban spaces noise could be an issue.

Re: The energy crisis
 

No, the current rental market is pretty broken.

I have been looking to move for almost two years.

What should be happening is proper enforcement of the energy rating legislation which requires an E and soon will require a C, mine is F.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Unit Prices not rising next month

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-means-for-you

Re: The energy crisis
 

True, but everyones costs will still rise by £66 a month as EBSS is ending.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes, I’ll be closely watching this. The energy companies will be looking to up our direct debits to ‘compensate’ but I can think of more profitable places to stash cash than in their bank accounts. It might not suit some but being in debit suits me.

Re: The energy crisis
 

you will have to pay what you owe still and losing this rebate will hurt for a while. July bills should drop and lets hope it continues for the next couple of caps

Martin Lewis has said there may be some deal start showing after July but I image they will be expensive especially if rates continue to drop

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yep, but I don’t want to over-pay as is the preference of my energy supplier which no doubt prefers to wallow in accumulated credit on the pretext that it’s better for me to have a ‘credit buffer’. They don’t pay interest on advance deposits but they will be receiving it ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

Wam home discount ends in a few days, so make sure you take advantage of it while you can. It's really easy to sign up, just enter your postcode on the website and follow the simple steps.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I found this a fascinating read.

Read more at: https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....3-e55f8e34385a
https://heatthestreets.co.uk/

Re: The energy crisis
 

We have installed something similar in Leeds, though the heat source are waste recycling centres, 26.5km of pipes so far and I believe it is set to grow as funding becomes available.

https://www.leeds.gov.uk/housing/hou...strict-heating

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes. The article mentions that type too but cites a drawback in the way some have been implemented.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

In England, it was automatic, no signing up required.

Re: The energy crisis
 

While it probably doesnt matter now, as EBSS is ending, it seems British Gas did it differently - they credited the £67 to my bank account, not to my energy account balance.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Edf have been doing the same thing ,crazy as my current DD is less than this !!!

Re: The energy crisis
 

For anyone who is on the waiting list for Octopus tracker, their CEO has gave someone a reason on twitter DM.

There is costs that Octopus have to pay for new customers related to "market stabilisation" and these costs currently make their tracker's lose money. Hence they have limited signups and have the waiting list.

Re: The energy crisis
 

link? Sorry I did not see DM.

Re: The energy crisis
 

For which, the message or the waiting list?

Re: The energy crisis
 

From Scottish Energy:

Gas SO +2.2% units +0.7%

Elec SO +9.5% units -0.2%

Re: The energy crisis
 

In comparison of what Octopus charge me currently, your standing charge is high for for Electricity so not sure who is cheaper over all and whether Octopus prices include VAT.

Gas UR 10.31p/kWh
Gas SC 28.48p/day

Elec UR 35.13p/kWh
Elec SC 38.94p/day

Re: The energy crisis
 

It is a postcode lottery for standing charges. And we still have no choice who to go to for supplies at the moment. :mad:

Re: The energy crisis
 

If the govt cap is remaining in place, as is, why are prices going up ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Here.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com...mment_79885382

Re: The energy crisis
 

Had email off Octopus with new figures. Few pence on standing charges. Have a balance of £289 so they said they would not adjust my payments after the support scheme ends. Seems strange because that buffer would not last long. Anyway done my maths and I can actually drop my monthly from £120 to £100 (before support scheme) and have adjusted the figure myself

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not had that email yet, I'm currently paying £67 a month, my balance of £268 won't last long when the support scheme ends.

What's annoying me I still haven't had a monthly statement of the cost and usage for a month, I think I may have messed it up by submitting meter readings too often, so now I will wait 28 days for them to email me to do another meter reading then maybe I will get a statement then?

Re: The energy crisis
 

you normally get a statement within a day of a meter reading. Maybe it is because you are newly joined I dunno

Re: The energy crisis
 

All I've had is the cost of the gas and electric used, no real statement so far I'm very confused.

Edit - looks like I have more options available to me if logging into the account via browser, so I get some sort of usage figures between meter reading dates.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Scottish Power has reminded me to send in meter readings on the last day of March. That will generate a statement.

I noticed yesterday that the last £67 payment (of the £400 aid) has been paid into my bank account and not debited from my bill.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I am astonished.

I learned about trackers from Jaymoss and Chrysalis here.

If you have a smart meter, lecky was 0.01p to 25p (excluding 4-7pm) during 20 hours per day last week and gas is less than 5p per kwh

If you do not have a smart meter, you can still get average prices 25p lecky and under 5p gas.

Why pay more?

And there is a button "move out", if things go to hell, and you are off the tracker in seconds.

My energy bill, from over £650 per month (posted here earlier ) is now under £300

Re: The energy crisis
 

Octopus currently have a waiting list of 6 months and only allow 50 eligible customers to join per day.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I thought the waiting list was for agile lecky.

Am I wrong to say, they still accept people for monthly average wholesale prices?

Re: The energy crisis
 

That was the lead time they quoted for Octopus Tracker. I'm not really sure what the difference is as i haven't looked too deeply being as how I don't have a Smart meter.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Agile has no waiting list so there is still a quick means of escaping the SVR hell. But Agile does need a smart meter unlike the tracker.

The waiting list was added to Tracker as hotukdeals got wind of how good the tariffs are and since Octopus have to pay the stabilisation costs for new customers they rate limited the new signups, as explained in that DM I posted.

As Ms Ntl said yep you can instantly leave these tariffs any time, no penalty.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Received an e-mail with the price changes. A massive estimated annual increase of £3.19 for Gas and Electric. Standing charges going up, but unit rates coming down.

Re: The energy crisis
 

What energy crisis? Octopus alert:

�� Plunge pricing alert! Between 05:00 - 05:30 tomorrow you will be paid for any electricity you use.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Time to give the electric kiln a run out :)

Re: The energy crisis
 

I've now had the email and on checking my account they have changed my direct debit from £67 to £134 a month affective 1st April and my balance is similar to yours.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

yeah they know prices are coming down and they see a chance to cash in

Re: The energy crisis
 

If its the tariff I seen, I highly suggest actually looking at the unit prices, not just the headline figure.

Electricity is only just above 1p cheaper than the current rate. SVR should be cheaper than this tariff in July.

Its still much more expensive than trackers have been.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The MP for energy was on Martin Lewis show a couple of weeks ago and he said they are breaking the tie between gas and electric pricing. Hopefully they will get a move on with that

Re: The energy crisis
 

Personally l would wait a few months to see how things play out regarding prices.

Re: The energy crisis
 

New gas and leccy prices start tomorrow, so it would be wise to give them your latest readings today.

Scottish Power's site is obviously struggling due to this, but they say any readings up to 5th April will be backdated to today.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Free leccy all night yesterday....in fact negative pricing, Octopus paid you 5.73p/Kwh to use as much as you would like . Madness!

Re: The energy crisis
 

brillo

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

But how much was your capital outlay to allow you to use "free" electricity?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Sorry, I do not know. I am not pro-wind or anti-wind.

I am simply delighted that Jaymoss introduced me to the Agile Octopus tariff and my energy bill is now 1/3 of what I paid Oct-Jan. Horrentus energy bills, and we were bloody cold...

Can somebody explain to me, why Octopus pay us on windy days, when there is no use of gas in generating leccy?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Now I'm confused. I thought the Agile tariff is the one that tracks wholesale Electricity prices, I never realised the price can go negative!

Re: The energy crisis
 

The agile electricity price changes every half an hour. Every day, at around 4pm, Octopus publishes the prices (for every half an hour) for the next 12 hours. Apparently there is an auction at 3:45 every day, that they fix the prices . You can plan your leccy consumption, by doing your washing, dishwashing, drying etc at the periods that the prices are low (we use "delay" start). Several times, usually during the night leccy is 0 or below zero. Negative prices, mean that we earn money by consuming leccy, more leccy more money is credited --crazy!

The bill is many, many pages long as they charge us per half an hour, and they bill us per half an hour -very analytical.

I have a smart meter.

Re: The energy crisis
 

If you on a v1 or v2 tracker tariff on Octopus you might get renewed on old terms. :) On v3 I think they being more strict as by the time that was put on the market take up sky rocketed.

---------- Post added at 21:23 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

It goes negative when supply is too high.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqSo9joCvho

Re: The energy crisis
 

What I foresee happening in the mid term is a sharp drop in electricity prices and an equally sharp rise in gas prices. This I believe will happen once the link between gas prices and electricity is broken

The logic behind my thoughts are El Gov wanting to push people towards heating with electricity instead of gas.

As someone who uses very little heating this will be awesome for me

Re: The energy crisis
 

That’ll be a bit of a challenge for the 74% of households in England and Wales that have mains gas central heating as their only central heating source…

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...rea/2023-01-05

Re: The energy crisis
 

I counter with the fact el gov want to push heat pumps and are set to offer grants to encourage the switch

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...t-pushing-them

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/1...carbon-heating

https://eciu.net/analysis/briefings/...upgrade-scheme

Re: The energy crisis
 

From your last link…

There are 25 million households in England and Wales - 74% of 25 million = 18.5 million.

18.5 million / 600k = 30+ years…

Don’t get me wrong, I think we will be moving in that direction, but I don’t believe HMG will be undertaking your assertion by driving the price of gas up sharply to do this, unless, in parallel, they have a long term policy (rather than the current subsidy which runs for two years) of providing grants/subsidies for heat pump replacement installations.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The problem with these schemes is private rented properties seem to lose out, home owners sign up, landlords arent interested though, council homes get the work done so what happens to that gap? it doesnt get plugged? Supposedly the EPC legislation should deal with this but it isnt actively enforced.

Re: The energy crisis
 

This is alarming but not unexpected:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2023/05/2.jpg

Re: The energy crisis
 

Is that factoring any subsidy though because if you factor in the subsidy we have all had the prices are not much different

Just edited the image to what we have actually had to pay like what they have actually had to pay I believe

April 22 I was paying 26p per KWH which is actually lower than the EU average according to your graph as it goes so the whole graph is flawed. If you add 12 months it is more accurate


https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1683026178

Re: The energy crisis
 

But from what I understand, you are are not on the standard variable tariff so how is your experience representative of the vast majority of the country?

Re: The energy crisis
 

oh contraire. I am on Avro Octopus which is their standard tariff for ex Avro customers. I procrastinated to much and missed the boat on the tracker and can not have it now as I do not have a Smart Meter. I just looked at my Bills and up till December 22 the unit rate was 48p and did not go up to 63p till January so your graph is totally wrong what we actually pay now is around 32 to 33p. Check your bills I am sure you will see

Countries like France also bring down the EU average. A quick Google finds France Electric unit rate is only .2 Euro less than 20p Damn EDF hahaha

Re: The energy crisis
 

I don't think that graph is meant to be one person's personal experience mate, it's an average.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I am on the standard tariff nearly everyone is on the standard tariff so how am I just giving personal experience. My rates are the same as your rates or within a gnats dangly bits of it

We are all getting the same price cut by el gov. If you are paying 60+p per KWH then you really really need to ask why

Re: The energy crisis
 

It must be including business rates, as the SVR is way below the graph shown.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It also does say household electricity so not business.

I think it must include standing charges which is fair enough. Perhaps this is what PPS adjusted means?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Here's a more up-to-date analysis:

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/0...-electricity-a

The UK is 3rd highest for residential electricity prices including taxes (February 2023) at 48.5 compared to EU average of 28.3. There is also a PPS adjusted value: 41.5 v. 30.8

The main thing is that wholesale price has long since dropped to the start of the Ukraine war levels but the current price we pay has just gone up. We're being ripped off.

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

Re: The energy crisis
 

No one in the UK has had to pay that figure due to government subsidies are they factored into the other prices or are they showing what they actually pay ?

France for example put a price rise cap of 15% so their prices are subsidised. What I think we are seeing is a biased graph that is showing our unsubsidised rate against some others subsidised

The new graph is not even right either . Feb 2023 UK unsubsidised prices were in excess of 60p and we paid 32 to 33p December it was around 40 to 45p. The graphs you are posting I am sorry to say are bollocks

You clearly have no idea on how the energy prices are calculated. They are calculated wrong due to the link between electricity and gas and green electric is not factored in yet. The prices for energy now are paying for energy bought in the past not the present. Cornwall insights has the estimated cap down to 2K from just fluctuating a little from October

Re: The energy crisis
 

What is that 63p unit rate that you said went up in January as my Octopus unit rate is 33.98 for electric?

Re: The energy crisis
 

That is the unit rate as per the real energy price cap not the government energy cap of £2500 if you look at your bills (if you have one yet) you will see both rates are there

You will see the April rates drops back down to 47p ish Julys rate is expected to be around the 28p mark means it is lower then the government cap and we pay the lower fee