Re: Britain outside the EU
 

*cough* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58351938



Probably scattered on the floor because they couldn't find a taxi or bus shelter to 'lose' them in . . . data protection my arse :rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

bigger picture Seph, a data leak is a data leak . . . . even if it's just a cookie :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm sure we can pin it on 'em somehow. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

El Gov has clearly decided to make an example of the haulage industry.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58364308

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s normally eight to ten weeks to get fully licensed as an HGV driver, now add in the inevitable delays due to covid.

Unless of course we’ve just got 100,000 unemployed hgv drivers sat flicking their plums (or respective ladies equivalent) going ‘if only there were some driving jobs going’

As per usual from this government attempts to deal with a very complex issue by issuing a ridiculously simplistic statement.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe if haulage companies employed drivers direct instead of relying on 3rd party suppliers (agencies) which take a cut, they'd get more interest from potential new drivers?

Some firms could also 'up their game' with vehicle/trailer maintenance and load safety . . anecdotal I know, but I've known a few drivers that refuse to work for certain companies.

Cheap foreign drivers plays into the hands of the unscrupulous profit driven bosses, and I'm sure once we give in to recruiting foreign drivers the floodgates will open for more than just drivers being allowed in.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not many people are obese enough to drive a Truck , I believe the minimum weight is 20 stone,thats why those who don't quite make the weigh become taxi drivers,also the skill sets are hard to learn, like pouring coffee from a flask while simultaneously rolling a cig and weaving between three lanes of traffic on the M1;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You forgot the leaving of bottles filled with pee in lay-bys and murdering sex workers.

Just to add to your already sweeping generalisations

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Looks like the boss of Tesco was right, Christmas is cancelled, again, thanks very much Krazy Kwarteng

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe if the drivers applied directly to the hauliers, instead of going through an agency?

Or is it they want to be self-employed rather than employees?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm not sure many would want to go self employed nowadays, but yes, applying direct to a company would work . . . as long as the company was willing to employ direct and not use agencies as a get out ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They used to be, to "minimise" tax - HMRC caught up with them, which is one of the reasons for the shortage.

https://driverrequire.co.uk/ir35

(Hiring companies didn’t mind either - no NI or pension contributions/liabilities).

Asda are offering HGV drivers with a minimum of 6 months experience £32k a year, for 45 hour weeks on late shifts.

https://www.asda.jobs/vacancy/hgv-dr...6/description/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There are global supply issues with blood test tubes but challenges at the UK border are not helping.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58374553

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So … one single line in that entire report justifies you trying to make it a Brexit talking point? You’re properly obsessed.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He's just bottom trawling the net for crumbs of comfort.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Which is fine so long as you’re not one of the many on benefits and perhaps end up further in either food or fuel poverty or both.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He is that.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s heading towards an illness, time to get in the big chair and get it all off your chest ………and move forward as a constructive member of society

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Looping back to this, there's an estimated eighty thousand current licensed & experienced drivers in the UK who currently are working in other careers. Which is pretty much enough to fill the shortage.

It can't be because of a lack of vacancies....
Pay is increasing to an extent, along with significant signing on bonues with certain companies

I wonder why they're not flocking in their droves back to the career in which they trained ?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Too much red tape and alterations to the working practice of HGV driving?

In the past I've done delivery jobs using a 7.5T van, used to enjoy it, but then you were suddenly required to have certificates for this that and the other, paid for by yourself of course, which made it not worth doing when there were other joba around that didn't try to hamstring you ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I would think the above is a possibility, I think potentially higher up in the priority would be those who are engaged in the practice known as 'tramping' whereby drivers are away from home multiple days.

I've done my time travelling for work, and whilst enjoyable I'm glad it's no longer a consistent requirement.

Regardless, of the above we get to ask some interesting questions.

1. How do you entice existing licenced drivers who are currently in other fields of employment back into the profession?

2. How do you make the profession appealing to potential new hires?

3. If 1 & 2 cannot be achieved, how do we fill the gap until such time as self driving/automated HGV's become 'a thing' ?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Don't HGV drivers have to regularly drive to keep license active? There was article on BBC about FlyBe pilot who could go back to trucks because we worked as driver while doing pilot training so only had short time of not driving.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Free full English every day;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good call :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Full South African breakfast is good too. Add some pap and a bit of steak.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Simple pay better wages , look at the hours worked and how about dedicated hgv lanes the trucks are hard enough to drive without having idiots getting in the way. Also cut benefits . Wales are looking at giving everyone a " minimum wage". Think it's good idea just look at Indian reservations with casinos . :confused:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How about looking at Finland, which closer to what Wales are doing

https://www.newscientist.com/article...#ixzz757FZE5EI

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

1. Pay is already increasing due to the shortage of drivers.
2. Dedicated HGV lanes would cost an absolute fortune to implement and would only be implementable in certain areas of the country.
3. What does cutting benefits have to do with it?
4. Again, i don't see what a minimum wage for everyone has to do with it
5. Same again, native american & casinos ? what?

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------


And the Finnish tax rates are.....?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Universal basic income will become a tool to control the populations of a dystopian pseudo- communist West.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

UBI or some equivalent will become a necessity in the future. Autonimous vehicles doesn't just mean no more need for HGV drivers but every driver be it a taxi, bus or even train driver.

Automated production in factories will also drive down the need for people to be employed. That's millions with no form of income or any chance of getting one.

A dystopian future indeed but nothing to do with politics, thankfully it won't get to that extreme in my time.

Politics, Local Government etc, will possibly the only future employment, what happens to the rest of the population then? Allow them to starve to death?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What is the source of your quote?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm sure the saboteurs said the same as they threw their cloggs into the looms.

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

apologies, I thought i had posted it.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._v2_-_Feb_2021

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nah, nothing so horrible as that. What Governments will do is eventually give the unemployed masses a weapon and send them to invade somewhere ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Michael MacNeil, a Ph.D student (in his sixties, so good for him) at Bangor University, who also states

https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Next_Pandemic

And

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...n_for_starters

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Thanks.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's a great essay. It was/is bad enough in the UK/ Western Europe and the US. but I certainly don't think anyone in Australia and NZ would disagree with

If you were trying to somehow dis-credit the first paper by referring to this paper regarding the response to COVID, I think it will have the opposite affect to anyone that reads the whole thing.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good idea, let's have a proper world war this time including evry country in the world and reduce the population to managable levels. Carbon footprint and global warming reduced to match. Win-win.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This tells me all I need to know about his worldview (written in December 2020)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yes, his papers on COVID are obviously sensible…

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ntline_Doctors

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I didn’t bring up any of his papers on COVID, You did.

I wasn’t talking about COVID, there’s another thread for that. Perhaps you could post things there yourself and argue with yourself about what you have posted?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Why wouldn't you pay attention to what someone has wrote on other subjects?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I would read each paper individually and critique it for the subject it is covering.

I wouldn’t blindly accept or dismiss, wholesale, his opinions or findings either way based on previous or subsequent publishing’s as that would be quite an ignorant approach.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I stopped reading when I got here.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1630420298

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If someone has bat-shit crazy theories on a number of subjects, the likelihood is that he’s bat-shit crazy, thereby tainting anything they write - assuming someone who writes a lot of bat-shit crazy stuff is rational because they write something that supports your views, is an "interesting" approach.

If one doesn’t take things in context, that would be quite an ignorant approach…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I've got no problems with people being bat shit crazy, as long as they don't start overloading my sensory reception areas with stuff my IQ can't handle.

If that happens, I simply move to a different life preserving module on a separate deck of the mothership ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I don't think it'll be that bad, vehicles will always need someone in the drivers seat in much the same way planes need a guy sat in the pilots seat, they need the accountability for insurance, driverless cars have already been responsible for killing pedestrians

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

hehe, we can send a driverless probe thousands of miles to land on a fast traveling rock in space, but delivering potatoes to the local Tesco requires the human touch ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It does in terms of liability...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Liability . . the same as everything else, that when it starts to cost more than it's worth, it gets abandoned ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We can also send a supply capsule to the ISS that will automatically dock while travelling at 17,150 miles per hour.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Bit of a liability there if it goes wrong . . . isn't there? ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Don't know, ask the insurance company.:)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good idea . .

'hello, I'd like to claim for a vehicle accident'
'certainly sir, are you the registered keeper of one of the vehicles involved?'
'err umm'

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not to mention the ethics side of a fully automated driverless vehicle.

I'm sure we've all seen/heard the scenario before

In a crash scenario, one of the following must occur

1. The driver is killed
2. A pedestrian is killed
3. The occupants of another vehicle are killed.

How does 'AI' make the decision as to who dies

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

[QUOTE=mrmistoffelees;36091531]Not to mention the ethics side of a fully automated driverless vehicle.

I'm sure we've all seen/heard the scenario before

In a crash scenario, one of the following must occur

1. The driver is killed
2. A pedestrian is killed
3. The occupants of another vehicle are killed.

How does 'AI' make the decision as to who dies[/QUOTE]

graded on class :shrug:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Asimov's "Law of Robotics"

First Law: A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law: A robot must obey orders given it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law: A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How would Asimov's law interpret the above i wonder, where one of those three conditions must be met.

---------- Post added at 17:27 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

AKA 'The Waitrose shopper'

Fair comment !

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Are lycra wearing cyclists human?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That would be condition 4 :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The AI declares it doesn’t believe in the no-win scenario, re-writes reality and becomes the youngest captain in Starfleet.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ah, also known as ‘The Brexiteer principle’

Sorry….

Not sorry….. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Don't think it does decide it just happens and has already happened, a pedestrian was killed and it wasn't their fault, it was proven to be the cars, I remember one of the executives giving a statement trying to excuse it saying well the car has done 250000 miles, how many people have you killed in your last 250k miles driving?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure most people would be willing to wait the 9 years the OSIRIS-Rex mission took, or be willing to pay over a a billion dollars to get their potatoes delivered to the supermarket… ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Isn't that their price in the Waitrose 'whoops' section?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He may be slightly eccentric, but when you read the document from the WEF which all world leaders and billionaires subscribe to………..

Well, we could all be fitted for tin foil hats

http://reparti.free.fr/schwab2020.pdf

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You are basing your argument on current AI which is still in development. So much about thinking of the future.

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Some of it maybe bat shit! Some of it maybe insightful. There’s a spectrum between full on conspiracy nut side and trust the government(s)/ billionaires judgement and altruism implicitly side.

I’m centre / distrustful. Because a little critical thought on how Western democratic governments have used COVID to impose authoritarian policies, used propaganda and fear to control their populations all against an illness that is still on average globally 95% survivable in “recorded” cases.

Then have the WEF write that report on the “Great Reset”. The WEF that world leaders and billionaires and CEOs of all the major corporations flock to at Davos every year.

So, I think I remain healthy sceptical. That’s my view.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Do you have a position on it? Or just what you can copy off the BBC? Not exactly critical thought………….

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

The Great Reset is not a conspiracy theory because it has been printed and published……..

fact.

no rebuttal of what is in the paper and no in depth analysis……”yeah it covers lots of stuff and I haven’t really given it that much thought, so neither should you…………”

As I say, you can push this towards tin foil land, but I’m more on the spectrum of things.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I read a book once that said the Moon landings were faked. And I've seen JFK.

If they're that fussed about lobbying wait to hear what 250 grand to the Conservative party can buy you!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

In all honesty I think a Great Reset would be for the best, the World is getting rather silly and out of hand now.

All someone has to do is find the damn button and have a paper clip in their possession to push it with, usually around 5 to 10 seconds does the trick.

Some Governments have been searching for years, which explains the secret Russian base under the polar ice cap (can't tell you which one as it is a secret after all).
Others believe it's down at the bottom of the Mariana Trench, which is obviously causing difficulties with access to it.
My personal opinion is that whoever cracks the Nazca Lines puzzle code in Peru will be led directly to it . . . . come on, you didn't think those drawings of birds, monkeys & spiders were just decoration did you?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Now now, we need to get back to the old normal, just long enough for OB and Pierre to pass onto the next world then we can solve the trillions of dollars of debt we are in.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I firmly believe the 'trillions of dollars of debt' is just a conspiracy theory, started on twitter & facebook by some bloke in banking. :p:


ps . . . for those without crayons, banking is not a country in the far east

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who really wants the debt of the western world solved in their own lifetime?

Nobody.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

yes, it’s all toss, put together by those who feel the need to have someone to blame when the real world doesn’t fit what they think it should be.

Critical thinking means not looking at what you want to be true, but what is actually happening - do people really think that a worldwide conspiracy to subsume humanity into a "quasi-communist" New World Order would be openly announced as part of widely reported forum?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I’ll have a side bet that you “pass on” before me. I have so much privilege and access to privileges I’ll be here for decades to come.

---------- Post added at 23:38 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------

Of course not, what is your point of view on the great reset paper then? Just out of curiosity.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'll take comfort that you are one of the most consistently incorrect members of the forum.

I'll call the priest in the 2070s.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If you posted a link to it someone may read it and answer your question.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

At least I’m consistent.

You do that.

---------- Post added at 23:54 ---------- Previous post was at 23:53 ----------

I did. So maybe you should read it and answer it?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Apologies, so you did and I missed it. My bad.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I look forward to reading this in due course. Point of accuracy - the book you cite is not a document from the WEF.
(I acknowledge one of the co-authors, 83-year-old Klaus Schwab, did found the WEF and chairs it.)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

True but it is plastered all over the WEF website so I can only assume it is endorsed by them

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Have I got this right, Kate Hoey appears on TV and says "Northern Ireland was sacrificed or we wouldn't have got brexit at all", so when she was saying "Brexit won't hurt Northern Ireland it'll brighten its future" she was lying or just didn't have a clue what she was talking about

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think the young people of today are far more sensible than to want your kind of anarchist/communist world that you want us all to inhabit, jfman. And you seem to forget that as the older generation ‘pass on’ as you put it, they are replaced by another older generation.

And of course, as people get older and wiser, they learn that left wing policies are simply the dreams of idealists which are so simplistic, they would never work.

And the new ‘older generation’ find that most ‘remainer’ types in their cohort have finally seen the value of Brexit, which is my rather clumsy attempt to return to the topic at hand.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What would have happened with Northetn Ireland then? In other news Weatherspoons has run out of beer, this is getting serious now!!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They are indeed, but someone somewhere will work out the dead absolutely shafted them with a one off windfall of selling state assets and an unsustainable low tax economy.

What part of £2 trillion of debt “works”?

Inherently speculative.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There would have been a hard border on the island of Ireland and you know it. Regardless of who constructed said border the U.K. would be held responsible for its construction.

So in your scenario we would have no trade deal with the EU and the US wouldn’t have a deal with us as any trade deal with the US is as you well know dependent on their being no hard border.

Pains me to say this but Boris is a better statesman than you at least he realises what would have happened should we have taken your route.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Anyone in power would know exactly what a no-deal aka hard Brexit would mean. Checkpoints in Ireland and car factories et al fleeing the UK. I'm quite sure that if Seph was PM he would see the same intell as Johnson did and make the same pragmatic decision.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

As much as I enjoy jousting with you that post reeks of both desperation and burying your head in the sand.

No deal equalled hard border simple as that. As Andrew says, even the mop haired buffoon understood that and subsequently agreed a deal.

Brexit has always been, is, and always will be incompatible with the situation in Ireland.

Re: Britain outside the EU