Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

How will it be any different when Trump dictates a trade deal?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, they did. :erm: I really don't think the analogy with Nazis is helpful.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Downing Street has been signaling increasingly clearly over the last 24 hours that it is confident there’s a loophole in the Benn Bill - confident enough to continue stating unequivocally that the letter demanded by the Bill will not be sent and the UK will leave the EU on 31 October.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49625431

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Great, I can’t wait to see the remainer Parliament throw a hissy fit.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Presumably this is why the filibuster attempt in the Lords was stopped: To allow the remainers to think they've hamstrung Boris but no and there's no time even with the pro-remain speaker to bring in another bill. Great sleight of hand.:tu:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The Vienna convention doesn’t come into it in this case. It is trumped by A.50.

Also the only person that can bless me is a Bishop or the pope, you are neither, although I do imagine you as a complete Bishop.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Firstly, you do not discuss such matters in topics.

Secondly, Rubbish. Nothing to do which side you’re on, so nothing odd at all. Stop trying to be smart. Re-read my last post. I said some forms of swearing is allowed. The form you tried, was not and you were correctly picked up on it. Using Asterisks was irrelevant as it’s still implied.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Part of the reason they don’t want an election is to ensure Parliament is sitting during October. There is an acute awareness that things can change.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I don’t think they’re that clever.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Once again, bless*...

I was responding to this statement

I pointed out the attorney General disagreed But if you know better than the AG, fair enough..

*anyone can bless, it just depends what you’re blessing...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I don’t think they’re unendingly clever (who is), but look at the evidence in this case. The filibuster was lined up and underway. There were 102 amendments on the order paper; under Lords’ rules, enough to keep them discussing the business motion, required prior to putting the Bill to the house, until Saturday afternoon. Yet despite the preparation and the execution of it being commenced, it stopped abruptly at 1.30am, the wee small hours of Thursday morning, at least 60 hours early.

Now *something* must have changed to cause that sudden reversal. At first I assumed a date for an election had been agreed; it soon became clear that wasn’t the case. So something else then. They didn’t simply get bored, or lobbied to death, and give up. That would surely have taken at least another 24 hours. So what changed? On the basis of what Boris Johnson, and today Sajid Javid has said, it seems now that by 1.30am on Thursday morning, their lawyers were confident that they had identified a weakness in the bill as worded, and at that point their priority would have been to get the bill passed into law with as little further scrutiny as possible, so to prevent anyone else spotting and amending it.

Remember Boris has quite deliberately used phrases like “in theory” when discussing what the Bill would require a Prime Minister to do. He understands what the Bill is designed to achieve, but doesn’t think in practice that it does.

Based on what we know so far, I think we can expect to wait until after prorogation before el gov begins to indicate what its tactics are. The Bill’s supporters will have to wait, however, until Boris fails to send the letter before they can invoke the Act and ask a judge to direct him to send it. Whoever loses that hearing will appeal it to the Supreme Court and there, according to Javid’s interview with Marr this evening, the government is surprisingly confident of victory. At that point we will most likely be mere days away from Brexit day.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I just think they saw it as futile. I think the air of confidence is simply to avoid saying they will break the law.

For the, very likely, people Vs Parliament election it's better to have Ministers out using air time to say "we will deliver Brexit" than Peers dragging out proceedings all weekend.

Although I agree with a lot of your post - it's likely to end up in the supreme court on the point of can Parliament compel the executive in this way, regardless of how well or badly the Bill is drafted.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

We will never know either way, unless at some point someone publishes their memoirs.

The constitutional question that is put to the Supreme Court is going to be momentous. We have all been bandying around the phrase “parliamentary sovereignty” in this discussion without ever really questioning the source or the limitations of that sovereignty (if any). If their lordships did, for example, rule that centuries of convention in which Parliament has allowed the government to govern means one perfunctory Act designed to force a sitting Prime Minister to write a letter is unconstitutional, there and then it will have ruled that there is something Parliament cannot do (other than bind itself).

Alternatively, there may be sufficient statute law already in existence which is not effectively repealed or temporarily set aside by the Benn Act that renders it ineffective. That would not drive a coach and horses through the principle of parliamentary sovereignty but it will render it extremely difficult for a future “rebel alliance” to do what they did last week. Who would pin their career on something so easily picked apart in court?

My feeling about this is towards the latter. A high debate about the ancient conventions surrounding the roles of legislature and executive, which in all likelihood would end up uncomfortably close to considering the outcome of the English civil war and the basis upon which the monarchy was restored, would be interesting but esoteric and difficult to do quickly and its outcome too hard to predict. Invalidating the Benn Act on the basis that it’s bad law that violates something else parliament has already enacted, and with all its usual scrutiny (whereas the Benn Act is manifestly a rush job and therefore inferior), is a more likely approach.

But then here I am making predictions again, and that’s a very silly thing to do right now...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...90202_en_2.htm

2 Report on progress of negotiations on the United Kingdom’s relationship with the European Union

(1) In the event that an extension of the period under Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019 is agreed with the European Council, the Secretary of State must, by 30 November 2019, publish a report explaining what progress has been made in negotiations on the United Kingdom’s relationship with the European Union.

(2) The Secretary of State must make arrangements for—
(a) motion to the effect that the House of Commons has approved the
report, to be moved in the House of Commons by a Minister of the Crown; and
(b) motion for the House of Lords to take note of the report, to be moved in the House of Lords by a Minister of the Crown.

(3) The motions required under subsections (2)(a) and (2)(b) must be moved in the relevant House by a Minister of the Crown within the period of five calendar days beginning with the end of the day on which the report is published.

(4) If the motion tabled in the House of Commons is rejected or amended, the Secretary of State must, by 10 January 2020, publish a further report under subsection (1) setting out a plan for further negotiations on the United Kingdom’s relationship with the European Union.

(5) The Secretary of State shall make a further report under subsection (1) at least every 28 calendar days starting on 7 February 2020 either until an agreement with the European Union is reached or until otherwise indicated by a resolution of the House of Commons.

What have I misunderstood? 7-Feb-2020?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But I’m a satanist, so that doesn’t apply. So thanks for the research you did ( which is a bit a sad, you know you can always go for a walk on Sunday afternoon, but if you wish to google “ who can bless what” consider your time well spent.

I still imagine you in a silly hat.

I know you were......and as I correctly advised, it is not relevant.

Any of of that only applies if the U.K. was to sign up to the withdrawal agreement, which it hasn’t and which it won’t.

---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------

I think that is a little bit naive from one such as you.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I disagree absolutely with the above assertions. But this is going way off topic so I'm going to agree to disagree with you there and leave it there. There's enough meat on the main topic for us all. ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Hardly. The Lords filibuster was time limited anyway. It was coming back to the Commons tomorrow in any case.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The filibuster was not time limited. The filibuster was on the business motion which was designed to time-limit discussion of the Benn Bill. If they could have stretched out debate on the business motion far enough into Saturday there was a realistic chance of them being able to prevent the Bill’s passage through the Lords and back to the commons before the earliest possible prorogation date which is tomorrow. The supporters of the bill were taking that threat seriously enough to have set up a rota to ensure there would always be enough of them in the chamber to vote down every amendment in the shortest possible time.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Wise words indeed. This is not your usual kind of Conservative government, it's quite revolutionary.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Ahhh - I thought you were a Santaist, and were on the "naughty list"...

Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I am back, whinging as usual.
But, l have totally surprised that we are not taking General Election here.

It is totally farcical that the joker Boris is running the country, and that the biggest joker Jeremy - and l am a Labour voter. could be PM. I have been watching all this stuff. And I makes me wonder WHY, our taxes are paying the wages of MPs and are behaving like kids.

They should be saying - we will take it to the country, and let us decide.

Boris, has some henchman going round sacking staff. And Jeremy, has the golden chance to have an election. And he is NOT going for the jugular.

I voted to leave - but that was ???? Now, l have changed my mind why you ask.

A certain Boris, said the money saved would be going to the NHS etc etc. What a liar, and a joker.

I want to remain.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You’ve got me there...........I sold my soul to Santa.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So many like you out there, Arthur. You're brave to say so. ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

In these farcical political times, it’s strangely reassuring to have Arthur ranting on Cable Forum. :beer:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Some things are constant, thank heavens.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

We haven’t left Arthur, no money has been saved to spend!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

He who worships Carlos Santana :)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

A interesting article by Conservative columnist Simon Heffer.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...e-fatal-tories

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

An interesting article from a French Official ;)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-things-stand


:D

It only takes one 'non' :p:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris will probably force the EU to kick us out instead this might be the best option

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I voted leave in 2016 and still want to leave. Boris as PM is defending the referendum result as any PM should. MP's need to weigh things more as they are representing their constituencies as well as their own selves. Maybe Boris' approach is flawed but parliament has had years to agree and work things out and have not really got anywhere. There are too many vested interests on both sides.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Versions of this story have been popping up all weekend. It is known that France has always been most reluctant of the EU27 to grant extensions. It’s not hard to see why they would be reluctant to do so now. There has also been some suggestions that behind the scenes the UK delegation has been letting it be known that if we remain after 31 October our presence will become highly obnoxious - possibly to the point of refusing to appoint our Commissioner, which would render the EU in serious breach of its own rules.

Parliament might (or might not) have forced Boris to ask for an extension, but what if the EU refuses? Will the rebel alliance dare legislate to force revocation of Art.50?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I am sure that Boris has a strategy to persuade as many EU leaders as possible to vote 'no' to an extension. The more of them on board, the better, but we only actually need one to vote against. Then it is almost a certainty that we will get a 'no deal' unless the EU comes to its senses and gives us an acceptable deal at the 11th hour.

In the meantime, Boris can have a lot of fun adding attachments to that Benn letter that will dissuade any serious talk of an extension by the EU and lots of little legal shenanigans that can be tested! There must also be some arcane rules of parliamentary goverence that can be used to thwart the Benn initiative.

One way or another, the opposition takeover of parliament will be thwarted and post election, Bercow will be out on his ear.

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

That is the only scary thought I have about this, but it would be politically rather disastrous for Labour to take such a route, don't you think? It would be the clearest sign yet that Corbyn wants us to be locked into the EU.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Farage says Boris is going to go for May's deal and hive off Northern Ireland. Would explain to why no filibuster or Lords amendments - the amendment to have another vote on a deal remains intact.

With the best will in the world to Old Boy, while people with no intention of voting Labour would have a fit those that would probably wouldn't mind revocation.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

. . . and you've always said Farage tells porkies :D :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So if we can rule anything out...;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

very big liar just like Johnson

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

How can the PM be held accountable for something not within their "gift". Parliament has 3 times turned down the "deal". The EU Parliament has to approve any changes. Strange that Parliament and the Remainers have never said what is acceptable to them in a "deal". They are the ones looking like they don't have a plan.


As long as the EU recognises we are prepared to leave without a "deal", leaving the backstop issues firmly in their court, then the EU should be prepared to make the "deal" simply that of regulatory alignment until the end of 2020. After that point it would be no different for them on Nov 1st 2019 as things stand. Of course central to that is the UK convincing the EU we are ok without a "deal". The UK courts would have jurisdiction within the UK, the EU courts inside the EU. The only people in the UK Parliament likely to object to that is Labour, as they want the "deal" to be worse than it currently is.


From the Political Declaration.
Does that mean we always have to follow them on everything, including tax rates, or does it it mean they have to follow any changes we make? Take a wild guess. The EU, as usual, will make it mean whatever they want it to mean.


Eg The "chlorine-washed chicken" issue is a competitive edge one, not a food safety one. Chlorine washing is used in the EU for salad and vegetables, so it's not unsafe and deemed safer than blasts of air and water as the EU insists on for chicken.
Link

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Plenty of other politicians as well seems to know the art of lying Dave.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

yep all them lie Den but them 2 are the biggest ones



Boris Johnson would not win an election outright, polling seen by No 10 suggests


https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...gests-11805584

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Speaker John Bercow to stand down on October 31st assuming GE vote does not pass tonight

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Jump before you’re pushed. A pragmatic solution to his impending demise. :tu:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Also defuses the potential setting of a precedent of a major party putting forward a challenger in the Speaker’s constituency at Election time - future Speakers may not be in such safe seats.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

With the likes of the SNP’s Pete Wishart, hilariously devoid of self-awareness, calling for “this remainer parliament” to choose a new speaker designed to give one last “middle finger to the Brexit cult”, should the new speaker turn out to have been too closely involved in recent events, or should they rapidly make a nuisance of themselves to the government, I wouldn’t bet the farm on that precedent not being challenged.

I’d say there is a very good chance of Farage putting someone up against a remainer speaker in any case, especially if they represent a Brexit leaning constituency.

Bercow has presided over a bonfire of convention, asserting parliamentary sovereignty at the expense even of challenging the most ancient convention is that parliament legislates but it does not attempt to govern. Granted many people think he’s done a grand old job, but in the longer run his undermining of the principle of respect for convention may have serious unforeseen consequences for our constitutional settlement.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The current odds on favourite to take over the role as speaker.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...9Cwhen-speaker

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Gets a book out and onto the speaking circuits with the best Brexit gossip.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I think it's likely No 10 will make clear they'll challenge any Speaker put in before an election.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

More Project Reality - British battery manufacturer will have to open factory in EU, not UK, in the event of no deal
https://www.ft.com/content/6f34d594-...7-807ebd53ab77

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ments-49636684 @19:28

I wonder what the Government is basing its planning and mitigating actions on, then?

Having been involved in very many risk assessment/mitigation efforts, you assess what the upcoming scenarios are, what are the risks arising from these scenarios, score these risks/issues by likelihood and impact, and agree what mitigating actions/plans can/need to be put in place to reduce/remove the negative impacts - if Yellowhammer is not being used for these purposes, what is it being used for, and what planning/impact assessments/likely scenarios are being used?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I think that is a key problem for the UK. People said, "All politicians lie, BoJo is no different."
The reality is that his lies are in a different league, which is why The Times sacked him. They may work successfully for a short campaign like Brexit but in the medium and long term, they tarnish your reputation. How can you negotiate with someone who's inherently untrustworthy?

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:59 ----------

I'm not sure that I would trust Michael "Pinnochio" Gove these days. He's been taking honesty lessons from his boss.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

A good day for democracy.
The vote passes by 311 to 302 - a majority of nine.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ments-49636684

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

ERG members now talking up the positives of a Northern Ireland only backstop. It'd win a Northern Ireland only referendum.

In fairness, there's no Ireland in the word Brexit.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Shouldn't think the DUP would be too impressed with that proposition.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Given the parliamentary arithmetic, the DUP are no longer of critical importance.

If a deal of any kind comes before the Commons before 31 October, the rump of the parliamentary Tory party can be relied on to vote for it, but what everyone will really be looking at is whether Labour does. Labour has to, really; if it doesn’t, it is going to be absolutely slaughtered in northern England at the election they have now publicly accepted has to follow after 31 October comes and goes. Not many Brexit-voting natural labour voters will be persuaded by the nuances they put forward as justification for refusing to back the WA earlier this year. Labour simply has to back a deal.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Ironic considering that was what the EU proposed originally, only for Theresa May to negotiate it to a UK-wide backstop, a big concession on the EU's part. So can't see the EU having a problem with this.
It's whether Jeremy will bail BoJo out considering all the bad blood between them. Perhaps the chicken jibes weren't such a good idea after all.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If my calculations are right if the ERG backed the third vote on TMs deal it would have passed.

Chris is on the money here. TMs future was tied to the DUP (in that she couldn’t lead the Tories into another GE). Boris isn’t tied in the same way. He wants a general election. After he delivers any kind of Brexit he must fancy his chances to win a decent majority.

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

I think the Conservatives could squeeze this through without the Labour Party.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The deputy chair of the ERG has previously said that simply removing the backstop would still not cut the mustard for them.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-08-28/...deal-backstop/

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I think the ‘risk’ is that most will follow Mogg/Johnson and not Francois when push came to shove. A pre-Brexit General Election might not give a desirable outcome, and there’s the danger of no Brexit at all from there.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If the Tory rump, minus the ERG, votes for any deal Boris brings back from Brussels, and Labour sits on its hands to try to keep all its supporters happy, then the vote will pass even without Bill Cash etc. Incidentally, not all the ERG will always vote the same way, and at least one of them will vote with the government as he is now in the government...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

NI-Only backstop has been the most likely outcome for a while now I think so I wouldn't be surprised. It gets us back to what the EU originally proposed as well.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If Boris delivers any sort of Brexit next month, Labour will have nowhere to turn. It will have to agree to an election, which Boris would fight without any of the Gaukeward squad standing in any constituencies and, one assumes, any new candidates forced to attest in their own blood that they’re fully behind the leader’s Brexit strategy (the substantive negotiations still being ahead of us). If Brexit is anything other than the No Deal kind, Farage won’t go away, but I think it will be fairly easy for Boris to neutralise him by simply pointing out that Brexit has happened and there’s no point to Nigel any more. Without their platform and funding via their MEP seats it will be increasingly difficult for them to continue and to get any significant hearing anyway.

There are still too many variables to make a comfortable prediction, but it is possible at least to see a scenario in which Boris delivers Brexit next month and acquires a governable, compliant Commons majority shortly thereafter.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So, France will not block an extension. Great news! :D
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49640344

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

well done to all MPs stopping the trap

---------- Post added at 01:21 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------

how exactly with no majority it -43

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If he delivers a deal surely he brings the 21 back in and tries to heal the division in the party? Some won't come, but I think most will.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

'Likely scenario' is a million miles away from 'worst case scenario'. If effective mitigating measures are taken to avoid a worst case scenario, then the negative impacts have been removed, haven't they?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No.
Mitigated=Reduced.
Revoked=Removed.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I think that's right, and even if Corbyn continues to sit on the fence, some Labour people will come on board as well.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I'm still waiting for a remainer to provide 100% that a no deal Brexit or a Brexit in general will be a disaster/crashing out.

With out the saying "Prove it won't"

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I think most of those 21 are Conservative history and many seem to have made plans to move into other areas.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I'm still waiting for a brexiter to provide 100% that a no deal Brexit or a Brexit in general won’t be a disaster/crashing out.

With out the saying "Prove it will"

;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I was being ironic (I think you knew that).

Neither can be "proved 100%", only evaluated using available information, and then impact estimated using that evaluation, with levels of confidence on those estimations - just like when a business puts together its 1 year, 3 year, and 5 year plans.

And like those plans, they are continually reviewed for changes in the environment and amended accordingly - not just carry on with the original plan because "that’s what we agreed then".

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Our politics is irreconcilably broken either way.

As the Taoiseach pointed out yesterday all the stumbling blocks of a deal are the stumbling blocks of a future trade agreement. The fact we would have left, instead of be leaving, doesn’t change that.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Exactly. It just puts us in a weaker negotiating position as we go cap in hand to Ireland and the EU. Please sir, can I have some more...trade? Embarrassing.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The latest polling intention released last night.

The tracker poll of polls puts the Conservatives 9 points ahead.

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Parliament suspension ruled 'unlawful'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But the challenge for others is the Brexit solution for going forward is "things will be better" - high on emotion, low on detail.

The last 3 years have shown that we’re not very good at negotiating (and you can’t just blame the EU for being "obstructive" or "perfidious", because if you don’t understand/agree that other major countries will be equally, if nor more, "tough" in negotiating, I’ve got a bridge you can buy...).

I don’t live my life hoping "something magic" will make my life better, but that appears to be our Government’s current approach.

YMMV

Re your 2nd letter comment

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/br...johnson-video/

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Suppose it will have to go to a proper court now and waste more money.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

There will be an appeal on Tuesday.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Nigel Farage offers Boris Johnson no-deal Brexit election pact.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ggression-pact

Personally l cannot see this happening.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Since when have remainers been worried about wasting money? It helps their negative "cost of Brexit" balance sheet.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

<cough>
£100 million "Get Ready for Brexit" information campaign
£400 million spent on Brexit preparations 17/18
£900 million spent on Brexit preparations 18/19
total cost so far £2 billion
additional cost budgeted of £4.2 billion

Total HMG available for Brexit £6.3 billion
<cough>

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Annual payment to the EU roughly £9 billion

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I miss when the country was divided over if smoking in pubs should be banned or not

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

yeah, another total screw up leading to job losses . . :rolleyes:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But far more important is far less people are dying of cancer don't you agree...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Are you sure about that?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Why,the non-smokers didn't suddenly rush to become pub customers and public houses started closing in droves as smokers stayed at home and bought their drink from supermarkets.

I do agree that some pubs should have been allowed to declare a no -smoking policy but to force it on all...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yep, stayed at home drinking and smoking in front of their kids . . well thought out policy wasn't it.

Oh, and improved (legislated) ventilation in separate rooms would have been enough to allow smoking in some places . . with of course the obligatory warning signs for those who were too thick to understand the difference between smoking and non smoking areas

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Passive smoking can affect other peoples health when smoking was allowed in pubs before it was banned and that fact is undisputable.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ths-who-report



---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

Pretty irresponsible to smoke in front of children don't you agree?

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------

Public houses starting closing in droves because it was cheaper to buy booze from the supermarkets and that trend is continuing to this day.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Not arguing with someone who can't see the bigger picture

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They started closing in droves because drinkers had to go outside in all sorts of weather to have a smoke. Drink was always cheaper in supermarkets.

It was a stupid decision which will have a lasting effect on communities.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Well, my work here is done

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I agree. The positive effect on health within our most deprived communities will be lasting.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Too many facts there for some Den ::)
Pubs are also closing because the latest drinking generation prefer to do other things.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The banning of smoking was not THE reason for pub closures but it was more than one nail in the coffin.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

From the UK Government's Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I'm sure Iran says the same about their judges;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So Boris is the same as Ayatollah Ali Khamenei?

Interesting viewpoint...