Re: Brexit
 

There probably are others who support the marchers. Not as many as those who want to leave, though, and that is the point.

As for your nonsense about this being a Tory issue, you are not making the connection that the majority are in line with the view that the EU is bad for us.

However, let's not just issue a health warning. Let's get outta here! :Sprint:

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

We all know that this is mainly about the NI border and the backstop. Nothing else to see here.

Re: Brexit
 

So on what I asked you have no answer for.

All I want to know is what is this peoples vote you marched for?

What is the vote you actually want, if its on the deal what from do you want it to take and what do you expect to achieve?

Re: Brexit
 

I think Seph is asking what's in the 95% not what's in the 5%.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes we could have another vote on staying or leaving the EU but I honestly believe that the outcome would be closer but the result would be to leave still unfortunately.

Re: Brexit
 

Well, Theresa May is currently talking about staying in the single market and customs union until 2021 so I reckon you won't need one for a bit. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

At least one shadow labour minister has it right regarding a second referendum.

source https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8505261.html

Re: Brexit
 

At least one Conservative MP has it right regarding a second referendum.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ew-brexit-vote

Re: Brexit
 

Have IQ’s suddenly dropped on this forum?

A second referendum, which won’t happen but if it did, would have to take place before March next year. Also a bill would have to passed in parliament to repeal the withdrawal bill. Or at least to say if the country voted to remain to repeal the withdrawl bill.

I don’t see that happening in 5 months.

Therefore we will leave in March with, or without, a deal. Any second referendum would have to take place when we’re outside of the EU, which would mean having to negotiate re-entering the EU. Which would mean joining the single currency and a shed load of other things we opted out of when we were members.

We are leaving in March 2019. There is nothing that can be done to stop it. It would be unlawful.

Failure to grasp this concept is mind blowing.

Re: Brexit
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: Brexit
 

The losers March on Saturday wasn't about a vote on the deal - the Stop Brexit posters showed the lot of them for what they are, abusers of democracy, they want another vote with the option to Remain in the EU. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

I know that Mick.
You know that Mick.
None of the remainers here will come out and admit it though. That includes one who went on the march.

Re: Brexit
 

No, but seemingly respect for other viewpoints just has.

Re: Brexit
 

In years to come you can say i was there just before we left the EU, that's me in the photo waving a bit of cardboard around ,we were all fighting for a common cause [The we hate Trump,universal credit,the Tories,Nigel Farage,borris,david davis and brexit] campaign, dumbocracy in action, it was a nice day out and the bus was free.

Re: Brexit
 

But do you agree with my assessment, and if not why?

Re: Brexit
 

I signed this petition.


Stop possible second referendum on E.U. membership



https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...J9XAT85WC240hQ

Re: Brexit
 

Me too

Re: Brexit
 

Do you mean respect for comments from those who are hell bent on overturning the result of a democratic. vote? I have zero respect for those people.

Re: Brexit
 

me too

Re: Brexit
 

+1 .. They should be put in prison for being a threat to our democracy ..

Re: Brexit
 

I would just like Andrew , Ian, or Mr K to comment on my post. Do they accept my assessment? And if not, why not?

Re: Brexit
 

No, I don't think IQs have dropped on this forum is my answer to your initial question.
In response to the rest of your post. If civil servants are preparing for the possibility of a referendum then you don't need to be Einstein to understand that this is a possibility.

Re: Brexit
 

Don't hold your breath Pierre.

Re: Brexit
 

Andrew, please read my post and respond accordingly

I’m not sure what you have posted there?

In regards to the law, and my post what is your response?

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Andrew, and others, I’ll spell it out for you.

Agree or not?

agree or not?

Agree or not?

agree or not?

Re: Brexit
 

But is she is dictating HMG policy re: Brexit

15 All .. new balls please

Re: Brexit
 

I have read your post and duly responded.
I am not a lawyer and from the sounds of things, neither are you. But to help you understand where I'm coming from, if civil servants are preparing for a second vote then it's a possibility. Therefore their legal advisers must believe it is lawful or has a possibility of being lawful.
Whether you are indifferent, in favour or opposed to a second vote, the actions of the civil service cannot be disregarded.

Re: Brexit
 

Some on this forum need to take some chill pills. Prison, really? :)

---------- Post added at 22:49 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Yet again, you mislead. There was no majority for Brexit .. not in the country, not even in the electorate.

Please stick to the facts .. keep the debate honest.

---------- Post added at 22:50 ---------- Previous post was at 22:49 ----------

No but good manners have.

---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

Bad laws can be repealed.

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry at this. I think it is a joke but I do wonder if you meant it?

Re: Brexit
 

Nope. This is a side show any way so we’ll end it here.

Re: Brexit
 

10,000 signatures in 2 months. Not bad. It may reach 30,000 by the time it is removed ..

Re: Brexit
 

[QUOTE=1andrew1;35967537]I have read your post and duly responded.

No you haven’t, just answer my point legitimate points



But you seem to be ignoring the very real fact that exiting the European Union is enshrined in law. It will happen and cannot be stopped unless a law is passed to do so.

Re: Brexit
 

The fact that 10 MP's from NI who were bribed £1+ Billion to help Mrs May and who are shackling her ability to negotiate with the EU are a "side show"?

*drops microphone*

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 23:01 ----------

[QUOTE=Pierre;35967550]There is a clue here somewhere :)

Re: Brexit
 

Absolutely, and this will need to be put before parliament and voted on before March next year.

Otherwise we’re out.

I don’t see a lot of a action about this? If we need to to stop Brexit now politicians come do a propose a law to stop it, and vote on it, and implement it.........a bit quiet though isn’t it?

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

irrelevant.


Within five months......unicorn country.

Re: Brexit
 

I don't think this is one of the bigger issues facing a second referendum. As you've said elsewhere the law could be changed and the EU is hardly new to fudging things if they want to do so. The referendum would probably require a delay to Article 50 as a prerequisite but I think they would get it. We would also need our Parliament to change the law but that would be easy, you don't need a complicated bill. Just a few lines revoking the previous one. Parliament can work super quick if it needs too.

The most likely second referendum scenario is that May's Brexit deal is voted down in Parliament and now we have No Deal as the default prospect. Then somehow (this is the most unlikely part) the government decides that this 'isn't what people voted for' and puts the question out to the country. In this case they ask the EU for a delay and the EU grants it on the condition that this is not a delay to reopen the deal talks but to decide if we're staying or leaving without any deal. I suspect the EU would like that scenario.

The bigger problems I see with a referendum are: 1) Who actually calls it and why? and 2) If Remain were to win then what? Huge problems unless it was an overwhelming victory.

---------- Post added at 23:15 ---------- Previous post was at 23:11 ----------

Prisons are already overcrowded. You'll need quite a lot of new prisons tbh.

Re: Brexit
 

You don't know the meaning of the word honest.

Because all you said above is nonsensical - two parties in last years snap election had manifesto's on respecting the leaving decision, they obtained the largest vote share, thus, what you say about the electorate is dishonest.

One party stood on a platform to hold another vote - they gained very little seats, the UK does not want another vote, that was very clear in 2017.

The majority of the people who voted in the referendum voted for Brexit - therefore we are leaving the EU, you need to bring yourself back down from the losers march on Saturday, whatever wishful spiritual energy you picked up on Saturday, with the gang of democracy abusers, is short lived because we will still be leaving the EU.

There will be no second referendum, because the country does not want it, that much is still very apparent!

---------- Post added at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was at 00:45 ----------

We keep going - Best of 3, may be 5?

Then we can watch selfishness destroy democracy in this country, because the losing side will keep insisting on another vote... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

I suspect a lot of it is boilerplate stuff that's relatively uncontroversial. Keeping the open skies agreement, nuclear material agreements, how meets are scheduled between the UK and the EU blah blah blah.


[/QUOTE]

If this were to happen we could have to clarify with the EU that we can revoke Article 50 (without looking at legal options) if so we would also have to ensure we maintain membership on the current terms. Any refusal to do that would kill Remain's chances stone-dead.

Re: Brexit
 

There is no way that the EU would allow us to keep our rebate and opt outs. We are to be punished for even thinking of leaving. That means an extra £4bn a year and having to dump the pound for the Euro. That would be just the beginning of the botty spanking.

Re: Brexit
 

Debate by insult, nice ... but you have form here so no surprise.

So you think I am a liar but you mistake me for the Leave campaign leaders. These are the Liars dragging this country into the abyss.

Re: Brexit
 

Over 14,000 now :dmonk: the momentum is gathering.


over 15,000 now


over 16,000 now

Re: Brexit
 

That's just speculation though. The other side is that the same factors that gave us the rebate are in play. We're one of the major powers in the bloc and they'll want our budget contributions. If they were offered the chance for this whole thing to end then I think they'll probably just go 'sod it' and revoke Article 50 and move on. The only concession I would expect them to require of us would be some mechanism by which we don't try to leave for another 10 or so years.

Also the rebate is more at risk than joining the Euro. They probably don't want us in there with the risk of us trying to change/screw it all up. The Euro has given them enough of a headache for the last decade without now having to add one of the major European economies to it.

Re: Brexit
 

'Democratic arithmetic'


Raab REJECTS second Brexit vote - 'Protest can't trump referendum'



Ah well never mind it was a lovely day and the buss was free.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...ic-Raab-latest

Re: Brexit
 

There was no insult, just facts. So get a bloody grip.

Total rubbish - it's the same crap said for years now, with talk of recessions right after a leave result, hundreds of thousands of job losses also, a emergency budget, tax rises. ALL turned out to be project fear, we do not need to be in a con job corrupted union to do our own trade deals.

There was plenty of bullshitters in either campaigns, but again from you, it's one sided rubbish.

Re: Brexit
 

What are you on about? Are you trying to draw a distinction between the proportion of the electorate that voted and the proportion that did not?

It is you who needs to be honest. The fact is, people were asked whether they wanted to leave or to stay. The majority who voted said they wanted to leave. It was made clear from the beginning that the decision of the electorate would be final.

That is precisely what is happening and remainers need to swallow that.

And what Mick said about there being very little support for your view at the last General Election is also true.

Please, stop daydreaming and get real, this nonsense has gone on long enough.

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Have you not been following the news, Seph?

End to free movement, the price of leaving, ECJ jurisdiction ending, all that stuff.

The finer details will be presented when the EU signs up to the deal. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, and remember, the backstop was accepted by us earlier and now we've gone back to it.

So just be a little more patient, and all will be revealed. Not long to go now.

Re: Brexit
 

Do you write TMs speeches OB ? ;)

Think you'll find we've many years of never ending 'transition' ahead.

Re: Brexit
 

Don't know where you get that from. There needs to be a transition period for all our ducks to be in a row, and the extension TM was referring to was only if needed (which she thought we wouldn't) and would be limited to just a few months if required.

Nothing to worry about in my book, but those who want to leave without a withdrawal agreement will be annoyed.

Incidentally, I am now persuaded that TM will cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party once the withdrawal agreement is signed, and there will be a 'coronation' to replace her. That person will guide us through the negotiations for a trade agreement with the EU. It will be a major task to get it through before the end of the transition period. Highly likely to be a committed Brexiteer!

Re: Brexit
 

Yes that would be Mr Corbyn :D

Re: Brexit
 

Not sure what a "buss" is :) I went on the train and paid for a ticket ..

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

Yup :) Mr Steptoe, the committed Leaver ..

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ----------

*sigh*

You said:

We all know, well almost all of us do, that only 37% of the *electorate* voted to Leave so please drop the "majority" rubbish.

Protecting jobs, the economy, etc. is not nonsense. It may be to you but not to me ..

Re: Brexit
 

You know very well that the majority who voted said they wished to leave. You have absolutely no evidence for your apparent view that all those who failed to vote wanted to remain. The proportion of leavers and remainers was in all probability the same, except for those who do not involve themselves in politics at all and didn't care one way or another.

Protecting jobs and the economy is what we all want and your view that all this is in jeopardy is not accepted by those who voted to leave.

New trade deals and release from the bureaucratic and protectionist nature of the EU will do wonders for our economy. I'd take something for that depression if I were you, it's clouding your judgement!

Re: Brexit
 

[QUOTE=ianch99;35967605]Not sure what a "buss" is :) I went on the train and paid for a ticket ..[COLOR="Silver"]

Money well wasted, well done you, did you take a banner/piece of old cardboard box that you had crayoned on.



buss is a term used in the "aina" or in other words the hawaiian islands to describe the state of being high/drunk out of your mind.


A bus is a thing you can moan about after a losing referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

Corbyn doesn't know his arse from his elbow and couldn't organise a nosh up in a chip shop. He could get others to organise a good demo, though. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Sounds qualified for the job then ! ;)

Let's face it this is tearing the Tories apart, which is a minor consolation in the current shambles. When the Brexit hangover comes, Jeremy will be there to pick up the pieces, enjoy :)

Re: Brexit
 

The Conservatives are arguing mainly about whether we should have a Brexit with or without a deal.

I'm afraid Labour don't know what they want, and with Corbyn at the helm, they are rudderless. The divisions on this subject are not confined to the Conservatives, contrary to what you might have us believe, Mr K.

Re: Brexit
 

The Conservatives are arguing about everything. The latest one was on murdering the Prime Minister ! Very House of Cards lt'll all make a smashing mini-series sometime :)

Re: Brexit
 

If you truly believed that you would be sticking up for British business and advocating a remain vote. Instead, you're aligning yourself with the far right and far left in advocating we leave the EU. You're ignoring evidence that it will harm the economy as your views would have to change and instead brush it away.

---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Really horrible. We've joked about extremists in the past but sadly reality is worse than fiction here. the Conservative Party needs to get a grip on such people.

Re: Brexit
 

He has to get elected first and current polling has him/Labour behind the Tories, despite all the shenanigans in the Tory Party.

Re: Brexit
 

Ah, but you don't believe in polls Mick ! Or does it depend on what the poll says ? ;)

Has to be said Labour were a distance behind the Tories at start of the last election, but that closed dramatically during the campaign and which ended up making TM very 'weak and unstable' - she's never recovered. Brexit fall out is the extra random factor next time. If things don't go well, then rightly or wrongly, those in power, get the blame.

Re: Brexit
 

RTE are reporting that the EU will offer may the UK-wide customs union but have it as a separate arrangement.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/...006113-brexit/

Re: Brexit
 

I do not believe in polls for specific reasons, but that does not mean the information I have posted is irrelevant and by crikey, all the crap going on in the Tory party with Theresa May, Labour should be leaps and bounds ahead in the polls, there is trends, not all of them are accurate and it is this why I do not trust polls completely, less so with Media polls who have a biased agenda.

But because it's the terrible trio, McDonnell, Abbott and Corbyn, why Labour are polling behind the Tories - they should be well ahead and they would be with a different leader and shadow cabinet.

Re: Brexit
 

as I said before no deal getting closer everyday as both side seem to be hardening on backstop

Re: Brexit
 

As you well know, Andrew, it is not true that all British businesses wish to remain. Some do, but the majority, and particularly the SME's want to have the advantages that Brexit brings.

Your so-called evidence ignores the historic fact that economists get it wrong time and time again, because presumably they give more weight to the problems than the advantages.

They are wrong again this time, as you will see before long.

By the way, the electorate voted to leave the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Oooh, do you have some data on the majority of businesses backing Brexit? I would like to see that, it would make interesting reading tonight...

Re: Brexit
 

Brutus and his conspirators.;)

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

Not sure l believe opinion polls after the last election.

Re: Brexit
 

95% was just an off the cuff figure to stave on her murderous back benchers (for this week anyway....). Why not 94% or 96.2% ? All cobblers which the muppets have swallowed.

You could always ask her if you like and report back because I don't think anyone knows ! https://email.number10.gov.uk/ (maybe ask for a signed photo too ;))

Re: Brexit
 

Pure and utter fiction. Brexit is hated by most businesses. We can all put our heads in the sand and pretend every economist is wrong but businesses are more sensible than this.
There's only a few key businesses that support Brexit and one of them - Dyson - has chosen to invest in Singapore not the UK.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

the same Singapore that done a free trade deal agreement with the EU

Re: Brexit
 

Was it about a certain kind of hegemony, perchance? ;)

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------

That was probably one reason for locating it in Singapore - guaranteed access to a market of 450million in Europe. We can only guarantee a market of 65million going forwards.

Re: Brexit
 

exactly :clap::clap::clap:

Re: Brexit
 

Meanwhile, the Government is looking at chartering a flotilla of boats to bring in food and medicine in the event of a hard Brexit. This makes Project Fear look like a watered-down version of reality.

Re: Brexit
 

To bring in food and medicine from where exactly? :dozey:

Re: Brexit
 

Indeed, if things go badly we could be looking back wistfully at Project Fear thinking "if only".

Everyones favourite entrepeneur ;) James Dyson certainly didn't put his money where his mouth is.

Re: Brexit
 

exactly it all right for him to go to place with a trade deal with EU but our small businesses wont have that option what a mega HYPOCRITE

Re: Brexit
 

[QUOTE=papa smurf;35967609]Even after the edit this did not make sense :)

The fact that you just resort to inane comments about crayons and Hawaii means you are patently unable to construct a reasoned argument.

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

I hate to burst your MBGA bubble but many who voted Leave did not want a No Deal, WTO based omnishambles. One of the reasons why the people should have the right to be consulted now this circus is approaching the end game.

As David Davis said:

Re: Brexit
 

Whether one agrees or disagrees with their protest peaceful protesting is a part of democracy.

Re: Brexit
 

Wrong. The truth of the matter is that most leavers didn't actually analyse the method of leaving. They just wanted to leave, forging a trade deal with the EU and other countries. Simple as that.

It was always for the politicians to actually make that happen.

We do not need yet another referendum at all. Let's just get on with implementing the decision of the majority of the electorate who could be arsed to vote.

Re: Brexit
 

As is a referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

Do you not mean 'as was the referendum'?

Re: Brexit
 

l never said it was not.

Re: Brexit
 

Pathetic.

Re: Brexit
 

23,000 now.

Re: Brexit
 

As far as l am concerned the referendum result should be respected but protesting is one of the freedoms of democracy whether one likes it or not.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45954022

So here you have an unelected EU Commissioner ordering a democratically elected Government of a sovereign nation to redo their budget.

This is why many people voted Brexit.

This is the EU Commission exerting direct authority over a nations government.

I don’t have any sympathy for the Italians. They know the rules, but if they had still had their own currency and control of their own affairs there are lots of things they could have done, same with the Greeks.

How long before an Italian referendum?

Re: Brexit
 

Great news

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Wasn't long ago leavers were predicting Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands would all leave so I guess it's time to roll out another suggestion.
As a member of the Eurozone, Italy has signed up to certain commitments and is being warned that it is in danger of breaching them. I see nothing undemocratic in that.
Like you, I don't have too much sympathy for the country. In or out of the Eurozone, I think its electoral system discourages growth. If it doesn't want to follow the rules of the Eurozone then it should leave the Eurozone.
Quote why many people voted Brexit for rules that don't affect the UK suggests that some leavers didn't know what they were voting for. That would be incorrect as they all knew what they were voting for.

Re: Brexit
 

According to your previous logic, 99.97% don’t support Brexit.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...0#post35967450

Re: Brexit
 

Aren't the English one of the biggest Hegemonists in World history ?? Mind you we are of German descent ;)

The Empire has gone old chap, and so has Hitler thankfully. Together we really are stronger, alone we will be weaker without a doubt. However we'll always find someone else to blame , while producing nothing, not even Dyson products....

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

Not as pathetic as that post.

Re: Brexit
 

Hence the name Anglo Saxons.

Re: Brexit
 

It can’t voluntarily ......unless it leaves the EU.

The EU would then have lost 2 of its 4 biggest budget contributors.

It can be expelled, but then that would be admission that the single currency doesn’t work ( unless you’re France & Germany) and as we saw with Greece, that is not allowed by the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Thank you, finally. My point exactly ...

---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 22:10 ----------

Exciting!

Re: Brexit
 

325,783 for peoples vote will of the people ?

Re: Brexit
 

That makes the Queen a hegemonist* :)

*Of German descent with an interest in topiary

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

*cough* name dropping :) *cough*

Re: Brexit
 

So they all knew exactly what they were voting for but at the same time hadn't worked out how they were leaving. Schrodinger's leavers. ;)
My ceiling paint is drying quite nicely. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Seriously ?

17.4 Million or 325,783

Which is bigger?

---------- Post added at 00:49 ---------- Previous post was at 00:44 ----------

Utter Rubbish.

Why?

See above post, no need to Google. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

[QUOTE=Mick;35967728]Seriously ?

17.4 Million or 325,783

Which is bigger?[COLOR="Silver"]

missed point I was replying to pip celebrating 23,000 on no vote petition was just letting pip know that peoples vote petition was bigger I know what referendum result was

Re: Brexit
 

On the contrary - I understood your post the first time.

My point still stands on the numbers.

Re: Brexit
 

Then 29 million did not vote positively leave either. :rolleyes: