Re: Brexit
 

Cambridge Analytica got a fair bit but there is no punishment when caught ..

Re: Brexit
 

What election did they vote in ?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Well it’s hit the fan now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48720176

His majority was over 8,000. The Limp Dums will fancy their chances because they held it until 2015, but this part of Wales recorded a massive Brexit Party vote in the Euro elections last month. If the Tories are sensible, deselect Davies and run with a candidate who does nothing but promise that Boris will deliver Brexit they should hold it. In any other scenario I think there’s a real chance of Brexit splitting the vote and letting the Lib Dems back in.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Along with Peterborough, this sends the right message to MPs - you can't break the law and expect to remain as an MP.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Tory leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt said: "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim I have only ever know Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP.":shocked:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48720176

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

He broke the law just like the Labour MP for Peterborough so it was pretty inevitable what course of action would transpire.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Well that's our 'Parliamentary democracy' for you old chap ;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Er no, that’s our simple majority electoral system for you (aka ‘first past the post’, although that’s meaningless in the context of a single constituency by-election).

Our power structure, in which Parliament is sovereign, would still be the same if constituencies used a proportional voting system.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I wonder if Remainer Mark Field will be the next MP out of the door?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48718725

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Unlikely. The protester doesn’t want him to be charged (the CPS can do so anyway but probably won’t in the absence of a complaint).

There’s been a lot of froth from the usual suspects today, and I think those people should ask themselves if they’d still have the pitchforks out if the protester had been a man, or the MP anyone other than a white, middle-aged Tory.

Yes, he went in hard but it’s pretty obvious from the video that he became a lot more restrained in his actions as he became more confident she wasn’t concealing a bomb or a weapon.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I'm inclined to agree with you that this won't go much further.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

It seems they have not listened to your advice Chris.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48736879

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I can't think why they would want to run the guy whose been convicted.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Very strange decision in my view.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The Conservative Party has been making strange decisions ever since Cameron called the referendum, which mostly involve shooting themselves in the foot. This one tops them all for stupidity, though.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

So this will split the Leave vote (with the Brexit Party) and let the Lib Dems win. Interesting .. if this does happen, the new PM will inherit a wafer thin working majority.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Maybe they genuinely can't get anyone else to stand ?:D

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I'm reminded of that famous Sherlock Holmes Quote "How often have I said that when you have excluded the impossible whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

It’s a very strange, tin-eared response to events isn’t it. I’ll be surprised if he hangs on to the seat. The government’s majority is about to shrink by another 2.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Maybe he has compromising information on the constituency chairman or something.

Remember 10,000 actively signed the recall petition. His majority is 8,000 and turnout comes in around 40,000. Now I would guess that a good proportion of those 10,000 were not Tory voters but they're still choosing to stand a candidate in a seat where 1/4th of the electorate went out of their way to boot him out early.....

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The extremists make me sick, leaving or staying isn't the be all and end all of everything and neither is their perverse version of either, a pox on all their houses imo

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

:tu:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I get that No Deal is the perverse version of Leave but I don't get what you refer to as the perverse version of Remain that people are advocating. Can you clarify?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

We voted to leave any version of remaining is perverse.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The latest Westminster voting intention.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/st...25049643569153

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Pro-remain parties strike byelection pact to fight Conservatives.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-conservatives

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

What's the point of a political party that won't fight an election.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

It has happened before many times if l rightly remember.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

or a political party that has no policies ..

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Yawn:sleep:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

You can't be talking about the Brexit party then as it has a policy to ensure we leave the EU.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

That's a policy, not policies.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Until such time as they run in a general election they need nothing else.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I said policies :)

---------- Post added at 13:42 ---------- Previous post was at 13:41 ----------

Or stand for a by-election perhaps?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Britain Elects releases its latest Westminster voting intention.

via @ComRes, 05 - 07 Jul
Chgs. w/ 09 Jun
‏

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Tory MP Charlie Elphicke charged with sexual assault.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...sexual-assault

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Skills minister Anne Milton has resigned from the government.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Skills Minister?

What the . . .

Will anyone miss her?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

They might well do if there is a no confidence vote in a few months.;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

But . . . what in Heavens name does a Skills Minister do?

. . . and at what salary :D

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Basically in charge of vocational training IE apprenticeships..

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Ah well it's young people, they don't matter anyway.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Aren't they all in university getting into a lifetime of debt?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Conservatives Commons majority now down to one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-49200636

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

But using the Remainer formula from European Parliamentary Elections, if we add the parties vote share together that want Brexit, it’s 50.3%. Tories, Brexit Party and UKIP. :D

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Closer than expected probably because Boris has seen a substantial polling bump. The Tories would have won had they not put up the same guy who had been convicted and recalled IMO. Pretty stunning contempt to the electorate from the local party which has cost them the seat.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

l will leave the maths to you.;)

---------- Post added at 07:02 ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 ----------

Pretty staggering that they put up the same discredited candidate when it was as clear as glass that any other decent candidate would have retained the seat for the Conservatives.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The interesting thing here, with Labour's vote so depressed, is whether Labour would still attempt to put forward a vote of no confidence in the government. The Corbynistas must realise that they will be decimated at the next election now unless they do something drastic, such as dumping their current leader.

And if another party (eg Lib Dems) call for that vote of no confidence, which way would Labour MPs vote?

Turkeys and Christmas come to mind.

Boris needs to play this very carefully.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Defies logic. Why risk anything when the majority is so slim? Plain entitled arrogance from the candidate and Party.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

This isn't really an area Labour was ever competitive in and they didn't put much into it since they knew they would lose. It's hard to read too much into it.

---------- Post added at 08:46 ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 ----------

The majority was ok but it wasn't about 'risking' it. They were always suspected to lose this seat. If anything it appears more a case of them writing it off with this selection rather than assuming they would win either way.

What's changed is a swing back to the Tories from the Brexit Party relative to the EU elections and national polling which they clearly didn't think would happen. Had they approached it differently they might have held the seat.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Maybe so, but the EU vote was spectacularly dreadful for both main parties. The indications are that the Conservatives are making up lost ground now with their new leader, and a landslide vote for Brexit at the next election is now unlikely, so their vote will not be so badly split.

Labour, however, is in great trouble, with the prospect of many of their members deserting them for the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives.

They may have wanted that vote of no confidence before, but now they must surely be reconsidering.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

You should add a ridiculous set of graphs and show the dodgy maths if your doing it properly;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The EU vote seems to split along the EU vote from 2016. I agree though that the Tories should be happy with this result but also kicking themselves they really they could have won it....

They are.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Given the smaller party's didn't stand it makes the lib dems look weak,in a general election they would have to stand alone as i doubt the other partys would sacrifice seats.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The poorer the Labour Party performs, the stronger it appears is Momentum's grip on it.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The raison d'etre of the official opposition is to govern so it would be perverse in the extreme not to make the attempt if such an opportunity exists.

What is interesting if any Labour MP's vote with the Tories in such a no confidence motion. If they did, in order to get a No Deal Brexit per their personal wishes, they should be expelled and deselected immediately.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Maybe so, but if they ignore the reality of their position, they will be annihilated.

Suits me. I would have thought you'd be devastated!

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

You deliberately miss my point. A member of a Political Party has a duty to ensure his party can gain, or at best, influence the ability to govern. If he/she actively attempts to block this aim then they will have betrayed their party and colleagues.

To vote against a bill whilst in Government is different. If an Government MP believes that a motion compromises the national interest then they are entitled to vote along these lines. The national interest supersedes party interests ..

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

Why devastated? I do not support Labour. Yes, people are able to not support Labour and Tory at the same time. It is allowed you know ..

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Former Conservative MP Sam Gyimah joins Lib Dems.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49703214

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I don't get how you go from conservative to iliberal undemocrat ,unless you just want the wage and the politics don't matter:shrug:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

He is very much a centrist politician and he obviously believes the Conservatives have lurched too far to the right thus he has decided to go to another party who he finds far more appealing then the Conservatives.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Umm, they withdrew the whip and made him not welcome..... The Tories left him, not the other way round. Moderate voices are not welcome any longer in the narrow right wing oap white male clique that the Tories have become. Its a dying voter base, literally.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Didn't anyone tell you we are living longer, personally i'm doing it to spite the younger generations,i haven't finnished killing the planet and the EU yet,any hoo my suppertime steak is ready ;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The Sunday Times (and the Mail) is reporting that Dominic Cummings told Tory special advisors that if the Government loses in court they'll just prologue Parliament again.

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/sta...40164081868800

And this seems to be flaw in the Benn act that might have been spotted; https://waitingfortax.com/2019/09/15...-the-benn-act/

Essentially Boris Johnson can get Parliament to pass the Withdrawal Agreement before immediately prologue again preventing the further legalisation required to avoid no deal.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Why not just abolish parliament altogether, have a dictatorship?? His first go at silencing them may yet be ruled illegal. Grasping at straws methinks....

And who elected this Cummings bloke anyway?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

He's just a political strategist hired by the government ,why are remainers so terrified of him :shrug:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Point missed completely...

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Yes, I agree, and their voters will desert them in droves. Which party will benefit most? Well, the Brexit Party and Liberal Democrats should do well out of it, and the Conservatives, under Boris Johnson, may be (to the surprise of some), the choice of many.

If Boris does well in getting an EU deal, or alternatively in getting us out without a deal, a grateful electorate will reward him, and the Brexit Party will be doomed.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

Wanting a 'no deal' Brexit is not simply a right wing aspiration as you imply. A lot of Labour voters want this as well.

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

Are Brexit supporting Labour voters in Labour strongholds part of a right wing clique, then?

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

It won't be 'proved illegal' as you put it. Ever heard of the Bill of Rights?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...david-starkey/

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

l never implied anything other then why another Conservative centrist politician left the party to go to another political party as that is the real reality and if some don't like that reality then tough..

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

And that is the vexed question when there is a general election as no one knows how it will work out as the 9 year polling graph trend l saw earlier this week suggest that there will be no majority government if those trends play out at the forthcoming general election.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Lets face it TM lost her party members while in power she let them go rogue. Boris on the other hand is taking no crap and trying to bring stability back into the party don't you think?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Boris Johnson like Jeremy Corbyn is a great polarising figure within their own parties as we have to remember what party members might like others who support both those parties might have a entirely different perspective on.

On stability the clear consensus is that both leading political parties are as unstable as they have ever been currently.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Why would a working class Labour voter favour no deal, which is essentially a Conservative attack on the state structures by privatisation in a future trade deal with the USA, over some kind of deal with the EU?

No deal is absolutely a right wing aspiration and it’s important it gets called out as such.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I would be happy with a no deal why should it get called out? privatisation has been happening for years before brexit was mentioned so what's new?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Because it would go further. Saying a similar event happened before Brexit so it won’t be so bad after, or due to, Brexit is a false comparison.

Much like the 2008 banking crisis was used as an excuse to roll back the state any post No Deal recession will be used as an excuse leaving many state assets to US vultures. Farage wants us all to have medical insurance for a start.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I was responding to your comment about the Conservatives lurching too far to the right, so my comment was pertinent.

Brexit has split Conservatives and Labour. Corbyn's about-turns and the rhetoric of Starmer, McDonnell and Thornberry may have led some to think that a 'no deal' Brexit' is an aspiration only of the far right, but that is way off beam, and is clearly designed to confuse. I was trying to correct that position.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Just to prove how up and down the opinion polls are here is the latest one.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The position will change dramatically when Boris delivers Brexit, deal or no deal. The public want decisive leadership, not all this wishy-washy obstructionist politics we have grown used to over the last couple of years.

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

Agreed, Gavin.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Talk to moderate voting Conservatives and those who have left the party and that is their regular train of thought.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Maybe you'd better ask them! The fact is, that's what they want, and remainers will never understand because they are so wedded to the EU.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Well three plus years of this shitshow has not changed anything so suffice to say many don't share your over optimistic confidence.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

You really are clutching at straws with these arguments, jfman. Anyway, carry on regardless...:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Only a minority of MPs have left the party, Den and the vast majority of Conservative voters I speak to are all for Brexit.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

It's not over-confidence, and clearly you are underestimating Boris.

He will win the appeal on Tuesday because the Bill of Rights clarify that the courts should not interfere with House of Commons procedure.

Parliament will not re-convene until after the conference season. When it does re-convene, we will have the Queen's Speech, and if further wrecking tactics look inevitable, Parliament can be prorogued again until 1 November. Then a General Election will be called for and the opposition will have run out of options to oppose it. The wreckers are running out of options now.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I don’t have to ask them - I can ask in the hypothetical here if I please. Indeed, if you as a leaver can understand why then I invite you to explain it to me!

---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

Is any part of my statement untrue?

The banks were bailed out, indeed essentially the failure of capitalism bailed out, to the tune of billions and the public at large got austerity.

The 2008 economic crisis wasn’t because the council used to empty my bin once a week.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Strangely enough, here in Leeds North-West, a majority of Conservative voters I talk to are for Remain - just goes to show, we can't count on localised anecdotes to give the full picture... ;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I see zero chance of any of that happening.

---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:08 ----------

Well we’re almost there now aren’t we, with Parliament denying the execution of the result of the referendum to the electorate.

Whether you are dictated by an individual (Saddam) or a group (Chinese Gov’t) or Parliament....it’s still a dictatorship.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:15 ----------

You very adept at saying that, very rarely do you back it up with actual point though..........

---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:18 ----------

I don’t know geographically where you live, but that is one of the most naive statements I’ve ever read on here.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Where i live the people voted heavily for leave,and funily enough i have never interogated anyone on how they voted because it's none of my business,i seriously doubt you go around interogating folk on how they voted either ,your story has a wiff of bull but that in itself is nothing out of the ordinary;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Enlighten me. Why “no deal”?

How do the poor, decimated, industrial towns and cities benefit from no deal over a continuing trading arrangement with our largest trading partner?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Well, that little problem of free movement allowing Europeans to take their jobs has been well reported, for a start.

Really, if you do not understand all this, there's nothing I can say to make you understand. All these arguments have been stated over and over again on this forum, and frankly, it's getting really boring having to make the same points over and over again.

The fact of the matter is, if all those remain-inclined voters who are attempting to stop Brexit do not understand the issues by now, it just goes to show that even if matters were set out in detail and without the fibbing at the referendum, they still would not understand.

I do hope that this is the last we will see of referenda - they are too divisive and disruptive.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Ending free movement doesn’t rely on “no deal”. Theresa May’s deal, for it’s faults, delivered on that.

I’m going to ignore the rest of the post because, once again, you’ve answered the question you wanted to answer. Not what was asked.

What benefit is there to working class Labour voters to have “no deal” over a deal? You told me you could explain; evidently you cannot.

Are you making the astonishing claim that working class Labour voters didn’t know what they were voting for?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I very much doubt “economics” came into it. The disenfranchised areas in the midlands, North and also in other areas around the country. That have seen through membership of the EU and the 4 freedoms seen manufacturing plants moved to Europe and Eastern Europe. migration issues.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...dustries---an/

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/06...d%27s+Diary%29

https://independencedaily.co.uk/the-...oh-no-it-isnt/

And i’m Painfully aware that with any anti-EU article, there is a pro-EU article that can debunk it and vice-Versa.

However, certain areas have seen a massive decline, New Labour with Blair forcing through the Lisbon Treaty and not implementing controls ( that were available) on immigration, and generally ignoring their heartlands in these areas so much so that the BNP got a foothold.


New Labour embraced the Westminster bubble

Labour didn’t save this.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...1600-jobs.html

But criticised Tories when it eventually went under.

The days when Northerners would hang monkeys and blindly vote for any knob wearing a red rosette are happily over.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Thanks for this insight which also doesn’t answer the question. Unless your answer was xenophobia I suppose.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

You’re priceless.

You usually give the impression as someone fairly switched on, but in these 2no. Posts you have been proven to be as blind and ignorant as most o/s of the M25, and certainly South of Watford Gap.

And your considered response to the defining issues in the Labour heartlands ......” well you’re all racists”...... just like the 17.4 milllion others and basically anyone that wants Brexit. Yeah you and they are all just racists so no need to delve into the issues.

Job done, racists, fcuk ‘em.

Right what’s next? Oh yes, the destruction of democracy.