Finally...some good news for the Pound
 

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

and yet, so far, it looks to me like it's the very well off (the CEOs, the billionaires etc) who are squealing about brexit. I wonder why.....

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That, we can agree on :tu:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Another set-back for the Brexit wing of Government.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-customs-union

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Absolutely pathetic IMO and one suspects nothing will change going forward either.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

On a work call right now but will post this morning's links relevant to this topic later. Morning people.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Give it time...

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how exiting i love looking at the plethora of other peoples graphs and charts that you post daily .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

You're welcome. Pleasure to bring facts and informed opinion into the discussion. I appreciate you prefer the Arron Banks style but BS eventually fades, reality is annoyingly persistent.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2016/10/6.jpg

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I dunno, the EUsceptic media and more 'Brexit' minded politicians seem to be pretty keen to shut debate and discussion down as soon as possible. I wonder why?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think the increasing rhetoric from papers and politicians call for people to stop complaining and boycott companies is a a indication of their nervousness. These are not actions of people with confidence.

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At least you are not getting your hands dirty old boy for once.;)

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I sense there is a major wobble out there; not since Brexit, but since the Ice Queen suggested a hard Brexit with no access to the single market. We've elected another lunatic (oh no, we didn't elect her did we ?!). Philip Hammond seems to be the one with some sense in that cabinet, so his career will be over soon...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Linky

He's doomed. :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

You're safe for a little while as I need to contemplate how I can share much of the content outside of paywalls.

In the interim, just for you, in the spirit of going onwards and upwards:

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/ar...u-s-investment

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10...tish-business/

For that one remaining person who seriously thinks Jeremy Corbyn voted remain:

Hilary Benn And Kate Hoey Battle Over Key Brexit Select Committee

Opinion piece:

Britain must unite to build a new relationship with the EU - Gisela Stuart (£)



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Probably. A Chancellor behaving like a finance minister rather than Comical Ali. Disgraceful behaviour. Needs firing.

Just as an aside it's kinda funny. This forum happily gets on the case of Jeremy Corbyn supporters over their wanting to deselect MPs for being disloyal to the leader, don't seem to be objections to such sentiments being raised about anyone who doesn't toe the Brexit line.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Because us brexiteers are very aware that if we give the remoaners an inch they will try to mercilessly exploit it to stop brexit. We don't want to discuss it, there is nothing to discuss. We want to get on with it.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yes and it's not like EU related referenda are ever re-run in order to get the 'right' result is it? The only people with anything to gain are on the remain side because they believe the longer they can string out the process, the more likely it is that the issue will be fudged in their favour one way or another.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I made this remark elsewhere:

Cheers for proving the point. If you aren't prepared to even consider changing your point of view based on the available evidence that's your problem.

Your remark suggests a profound lack of confidence. If there's so little confidence that 'you brexiteers' can't handle the scrutiny of the position that's a better argument for continuing to question it than I could ever make.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

On the flip side here's the Chancellor, changing his thoughts based on circumstances.

Naturally immediately seized on in the comments section by people desperate to claim conspiracy, Project Fear, etc.

Good to see one group, at least, happy to change position based on data.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The whole of the 'scare' predictions about business not investing or leaving the UK become null and void and would need to be reworked if the rate of Corporation Tax gets reduced to, say, 10%.

This is one mans analysis on Sterling.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Hadn't seen much of Ashoka Mody's stuff on this. Will have a look. Thanks.

On the corporation tax stuff, good point, no idea how the UK would do if we tried to become a 'tax haven'. I must admit I struggle to see how that'd coincide with rebalancing the economy.

I've seen a couple of approaches on using tax cuts to balance impact ranging from George Osborne's plans to the extreme ones from Madsen Pirie - 0% corporation tax, 0% capital gains tax, flat rate income tax after a tax free allowance of minimum wage.

I'm not sure if anyone's really crunched the numbers but will check that out. Be tricky to see how it could be revenue neutral without huge economic growth as a result.

---------- Post added at 21:11 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

In other news the pro-remain Hilary Benn beat staunchly pro-Brexit Kate Hoey to chair the Commons select committee scrutinising exit from the EU 330-209. It was noted by Bloomberg and others that this is an outright majority of MPs.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37707700

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The EU comission is still an unelected, anti democratic bureaucracy so of course I'm not changing my point of view. Why would I? :confused:

I absolutely do have a problem with confidence in this matter. It was a bloody miracle that we managed to get a majority out vote and the remoaners are using every trick in the book to turn this ship around. There were massive forces working against brexit and there still are. Of course I'm worried. :(

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iirc, cutting tax usually results in a greater tax take for the govt because people and companies are happier to pay what they perceive to be a fair tax rate rather than using tax avoidance vehicles to dodge paying it.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Don't be worried. Although the vote was close if it came to a Parliamentary decision to overturn it then I, as a Remoaner, would be with you in arguing that it shouldn't. There are a lot of Remain voters who think that too.

I still will object though to various parts of what Brexit would entail. I don't think think companies should collate lists of foreign workers, I don't think EU citizens here should leave, I think we should embrace the liberal type of Brexit envisioned by some rather than the nativist Brexit envision by others and I think we should have as good a deal as we can with Europe whilst restricting unskilled migration.

Actually think about it you may still be worried as it occurs to me I don't have that much sway over central government.....

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Remainers, Scots and Lib Dems want Theresa May to have ALL the power to invoke Article 50

A SHOCK new poll shows the vast majority of Scots and Liberal Democrats now want the final decision on invoking Article 50 to belong to Theresa May and not parliament, paving the way for a smooth Brexit.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/723...e-50-EU-Europe

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;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Really? They are appointed by elected representatives. You don't like your commissioner you vote out the people who put them in place.

I don't remember voting for the PM or the Chancellor. I certainly don't remember voting Boris Johnson in as Foreign Secretary. They were elected as MPs only and then appointed to their positions of power or elected by a selectorate that did not include most of us.

If the EU Commission is unelected and anti-democratic so are the holders of cabinet positions, especially those from the House of Lords.

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:07 ----------

Laffer Curve.

Obviously once the rates miss the peak of the curve revenue drops.

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Ya. There were clearly no 'massive forces' working for Brexit and the Leave.EU campaign wasn't at all founded on anti-immigration rhetoric, much of it lies. Vote Leave, while better, was also immensely economical with the truth.

The remain campaign was a sloppy Project Fear with extensive hyperbole and some claims that were simply wrong, although as posted above Arron Banks' main criticism was that it was too factual. The leave campaign was largely blowing sunshine about a glorious future up the hindmost alongside Project BS and, now it's happened, the BS is unravelling. The BS peddlers who sold the public a vision of a pain-free Brexit then a dash to the stars, such as the Minister for Brexit, have been shown as either delusional or liars.

I've read a few people noting Brexiteers pleading persecution. Looks like they were right.

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Just as an afterthought given your concern about democracy: I'm sure you're hoping for the court case on Article 50 to decide that Parliament is sovereign in this regard, given you voted in the referendum to restore the sovereignty of Parliament, and our elected representatives will have a say. That would ensure the most voices throughout the nation are heard, especially given that the nature of our departure from the EU was in no way settled by the referendum itself.

It would be pretty grim, don't you think, if Brexit were served by a man and/or woman neither of whom were elected by the public to their positions, but were only elected to the Commons as MPs?

Trying to use Crown Prerogative based on centuries old common law dating back to when we were a full monarchy to bypass Parliament doesn't strike me as particularly democratic.

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The depressing part is that the PM didn't condemn the sentiment, just the wording. Usually such behaviour would raise widespread alarm bells but authoritarianism is fine as long as the aim coincides with what you want. Never mind that, inevitably, at some point it'll be used to push through something you don't. The government is supposed to try and bring people together and get them on board, instead government MPs are actively trying to shut down debate, ignoring reality and shunning 48%+ of the population while the PM looks the other way.

Strange times indeed.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Theresa May to tell EU leaders there will be no U-turn on Brexit

Theresa May will today tell other EU leaders to forget any notion that Britain will change its mind about Brexit, as she meets them all face-to-face for the first time.

The Prime Minister will use her first European Council summit to kill off any suggestions of a second referendum, after the idea of a dramatic rethink was floated by its President.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7370401.html

could do with a graph but i cant find someone else's work to copy and paste
but hey ho onwards and upwards .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Of course. To say anything else would be insanity at this stage. The ramifications politically would be enormous. Though I'd point out that what she said at the Tory conference and the position since don't really mesh, and that what we do may actually end up not being up to her, but Parliament.

If we end up with a bad deal and still go through with it even though it'll cost our economy and quality of life that to me is far more anti-British than continuing to make any arguments.

Article 50 will be served. The terms of negotiation and the decision on the final deal should at very least involve Parliament heavily, and possibly even all of us through a referendum, with the option to take the deal or to remain as we are.

Sorry if my use of citations and data bothers you. I appreciate evidencing opinions may seem novel, and that sharing the views of experts and those directly involved rather than heavily slanted editorials or outright lies from tabloid journalists with agendas could seem strange.

There's still over 2 years to go. Most of what's being said is posturing which, while it carries consequences, isn't the end game.

Onwards and upwards indeed, wherever that may lead. :)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think at this time now everyone knows how we stand, then if we're going to do it, now would actually be a really good time to hit that button.

I suspect as time goes on, and uncertainties mount, we'll be less inclined to do it, especially as a result of that uncertainty mounting, the pound devalues further & more companies bail out.


I feel there's a real risk of now or never, which I expect the pro-remain guys are also secretly hoping for too, expect to see lots of 'delaying' type tactics.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I hope there aren't too many hoping for a never. They're going to be pretty disappointed. It can't be served right now due to the outstanding court case. Even if that court case and the inevitable appeal are successful it will still be served, just on Parliament's terms rather than the government's.

I'm not aware of many people who don't accept it's going to happen. Extend and pretend isn't going to work unless the extension is really, really long which isn't feasible.

The major collision point will come when negotiation is completed, at which point I would hope Parliament at very least will get a vote on whether to accept the terms or remain in, and ideally the entire country.

A referendum or Parliamentary decision, while it doesn't appeal to Theresa May's control freakery, would be far more palatable politically to her. If we get a good deal, awesome, off we go. If we get a bad deal and it's in the national interest to remain where we are, not so good.

Who knows, perhaps the EU will make some changes of its own. Stranger things have happened.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

When negotiation was concluded, if we wanted to remain in, we'd have to re-apply as we'd be out. That wouldn't be so good either, as we'd have lost all the things we'd already uniquely gained when we originally joined in the 70's

I feel reasonably sure at that juncture we'd be heavily punished by the EU if nothing else, then as a deterrent against others who may be considering it.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

When on holiday in Cyprus most non political locals would also leave the EU if given the chance. (Expats and politicos would stay). This I have already mentioned.

Currently we are hosting students from Italy (older teens) and consistently they say that many in Italy would also like to leave. All have been from northern Italy and many have both parents working if this helps on demographics.

I don't think we are as alone as some would make out.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The EU's 'democratic' system that elected a president nobody wants

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:D

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Our economy and quality of life may well suffer for a while but it will rise again and then we'll have that and control over our affairs.

UK determined to retain eurozone clearing after Brexit – Davi
 

"Senior European officials, including the French government, have warned the City of London will lose its role as a hub for eurozone clearing activities following a failed case by the European Central Bank to repatriate clearing to the single currency area last year.
But speaking to MPs in the House of Commons on Thursday, David Davis said retaining clearing would form a key part of its exit talks with Brussels."
https://www.ft.com/content/6ebb6cea-...1-830d17b280d5

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 ----------

How will our economy and quality of life improve? And how long is a while? A year? Ten years?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Dislike and mistrust of the EU is not a uniquely british thing nor is the desire to leave by growing numbers in many EU states people have had enough. They are tired of badly thought out and implemented expansion, they are tired of the EU's inability to respond rapidly to changing circumstances and the real effect they have on the citizenry. Right now the EU is hanging by a thread and it's continuing to fray so the way some talk as though our exit negotiations are a case of us having to take what the EU offers is rubbish.

Whilst there may be some brexit supporters that were stupid enough to believe it was all going to be painless and we'd get everything we wanted i very much doubt they represent even a minority of the total that voted to leave. Nor do i believe a large number of leave voters did so because of the campaign run by vote leave it was a complete shambles bordering on comedy at best and pathetic at worst. Most people voted leave because of their own experiences of being in the EU club my vote was decided before the campaigns started and i did my best to avoid the campaigns. I didn't trust a word out of Boris's mouth as it was clear the nations best interest wasn't his primary concern, but this ripping each other apart has to stop and both sides need to grow up and start respecting each other and stop tryingvto constantly insult or belittle each other.

In or out of the EU the UK was going to face problems which one will cause greater damage longterm none of us know for certain there are no experts on this because this hasn't happened before and no one really believed the vote woukd be to leave which is the main reason remain lost. My biggest reason if i had to pick just one for why i voted leave was because i mistrust the EU they don't tell the truth about where the grand plan ends and rarely divulge muchbof any substance unless they have no choice.

It's time to come together get behind the process and work together to make the best of it that we can for the good of the country and ourselves as right now the fractious infighting is doing positive and achieving nothing at all. The know it alls on both sides need to step back and let things calm down so we can proceed in a better way.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

How will our economy and quality of life improve being shackled to the EU and all it's massive problems? How long will it take for that to get sorted out? Just interested in why some people seem to be unable to see just how bad things over there are and why they'd want to be part of it.

It's all very well having doubts about the UK's economy but where's the EU heading?

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Amen to that and if the EU is so unwilling to compromise as a result of something as important as this why on Earth would anyone want to be stuck with that? Why would anyone have any faith in where the EU's going? Someone please tell me why we should have confidence in the Eurocrats and their single-minded vision of the future?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Brexit: UK government's plan to export 'tea, jam and biscuits' ridiculed online

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/br...-a3373336.html

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Because presumably the remainers think that is a price worth paying to ensure our current economical model stays as it is.

Re: UK determined to retain eurozone clearing after Brexit – Davi
 

That's a stupid question. How old are you? Five? "are we nearly there yet?" :dozey:
However, personally, I'd say about 5 years till we get back to normal......that's a guess obviously.

Re: UK determined to retain eurozone clearing after Brexit – Davi
 

I appreciate your second sentence and will let others judge your first.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I am now of the opinion may actually wanted us to leave but only voted the way she did to keep on cameron's good side.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

For those interested in how scrapping EU tariffs in the event of a hard Brexit could affect the prices of goods there's a useful guide here of EU tariff levels.

For example the EU puts 35% on all imported wine from outside the EU so while leaving might make French wine more exepensive, American and new world wines are likely to face smaller or zero tariff in the UK as we don't need to keep an indigineous industry happy. Same applies to shoes and textiles. The EU applies levels upto 100% on some goods.

If we scrapped many of the tariffs much of our imported foodstuffs that we cannot grow here will become cheaper.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Cheaper and bigger perhaps, brexit might not be so bad after all and I'm sure we're all grateful to Dave knuckles grandfathers for their sacrifice in the pursuit of bigger biscuits, they gave their yesterday's for our tomorrow's coffee morning or something like that

http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/...-after-brexit/

Re: UK determined to retain eurozone clearing after Brexit – Davi
 

10/10 ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Virgin Media CEO urges Teresa May to bring clarity to Brexit turmoil.

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/4...Brexit-turmoil

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

i think most people wanted to leave but were to afraid to take the leap .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'd agree with that !

and @Ramrod, your answer to 1andrew1 suggests you're still in school shorts ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

'If you don’t like it, CLEAR OFF' Audience member ORDERS Remoaner MPs to 'do their job'

The panel, consisting of Remainers Ken Clarke and Angela Rayner, were asked by audience member Gary Young: “Is it time to stop complaining and positively embrace the will of the British majority?”

But Clarke reiterated: “I am against referendums”, only to met with groans from the audience in Hartlepool.............

missed this last night so its catch up tv at teatime.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/723...oung-clear-off

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I am of the opinion that Parliament should play an important role at every level during Brexit,it is after all the final authority and we have just voted to make sure that Parliament remains the final authority ,setting Parliament aside during Brexit seems a bit undemocratic to me

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I agree to a point. certainly no more referendums.

In no way should parliament be allowed to block Brexit. But it definitely should have input into what Brexit looks like.

I think this is very important for Scotland, and the SNP MPs would have a major say.

So input yes, derail no.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The Canadian European free trade deal has collapsed, nine years of considerably less complicated, weaker negotiations to get no where, we have this to look forward to I fear

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Wallonia continues to have concerns about the threat of surging pork and beef imports from Canada and an independent court system to settle disputes between states and foreign investors, which critics say may be used by multinationals to dictate public policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ster-walks-out


time to beef up negotiations or trot on ....

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

They are still looking to sign thursday next week ,the issues are all down to the EU and the fact that they have to please all 28 members because of the rules of the single market.This issue highlights everything that is wrong with the single market and the EU and why we need to be as far away from it as possible until it is scrapped or considerably changed .If one tiny little region can hold the whole of the EU and Canada to ransome then it shows that the single market simply does not work and trying to negotiate anything with the EU is an unnecessarily difficult task.

Canada's Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland said: "From Canada's perspective, our work is done.

says it all really.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Wallonia, half of Belgium, sees CETA as a backdoor through Canada for the USA to wield more power over the EU economy, work standards and even ethics is some ways. It has always maintained this stance despite EU bullies trying to change their minds.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Half of Belgium ... wow. So comfortably less than half the population of London.

Don't get me wrong, if that's the way the EU wants to operate then great, but IMO it's another example of it rapidly becoming unfit for purpose. I still firmly believe that in the long run we will be a lot better off out.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Has the old phrase 'the tail's wagging the dog' ever been better exemplified?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But I thought the EU made countries give up control? ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

This is an example of one thing I've seen since brexit that really worries me. The attitude that "you disagree with me, therefore you are wrong and deserve punishment". That is the basis of fascism and is what I thought we were fighting in both world wars.

Look at The Sun and Gary Linekar. All he said is "The treatment by some towards these young refugees is hideously racist and utterly heartless. What’s happening to our country?". A point which is true, and a question I'd like to see answered. The Sun's response? To call for him to be fired for propagating "Migrant Lies". Having said that, I suspect The Sun knows more about lying than most.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It does - monetary policy would be just one very important example, fishing rights would be another, especially if you happen to be a trawlerman. There's a big difference between having direct control over your own affairs and simply being able to obstruct the majority from pursuing what their goals are, as in this case, even if a compromise is eventually reached. ;)
Maybe that's why virtually everything significant the EU does takes so long and seems to result in a fudge.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm fed up of people say where is the £350m promised for the NHS.

Despite the fact the bus said "Lets give the £350m to the NHS"

In my understanding that isn't say we'll give.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm not sure the present impasse answers that charge in any meaningful way.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Correct, not being the incumbent Government, the Brexit campaign had no power to promise anything and didn't except for the fact that we'd have the power to decide our own affairs, including spending any money saved in EU fees (£350m or otherwise) on the NHS if we so wished.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I mean maybe they shouldn't have put it on a bus then.

I also think we're going to find that the money saved on EU fees is going to be less than we're losing elsewhere. I don't expect the upcoming budget is going to be welcoming.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

IMHO People need to read things properly.

I only got a "C" in CSE English and I understood what the sign said.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The didn't put a promise on the bus, they put an aspiration. It's perfectly clear, perfectly reasonable and it stands. It'll be HMG who decide what the money's spent on but who knows what the amounts involved 2 years down the line or so will actually be. :shrug:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...5&d=1476609435

'I'll try to give you £50' is an aspiration.

'I'll give you £50' is a promise...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

'Lets give' is not the same as 'we will give'

It's a suggestion, whereas 'we will give' is a statement.

Learn to read.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Serious question.. would people be prepared to accent a CETA or TTIP style deal between the UK and the EU, US or Canada?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I can see Audi's, BMW's & Mercedes (plus others) stop being sold if a decsent aggreement isn't reached.

Can you see the German losing all those sales?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No let's give isn't a suggestion, learn what words mean

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's still not the same as 'we will give'

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's just a weaker way of saying it, the meaning of the words isn't really relevant imo, it's what they intended people to believe that's important and in that respect they were duplicitous imo.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

well the EU is still taking the money every week and that's not up for interpretation ...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-of-brexit-uk

If that does actually happen we're going to lose a hell of a lot more than £350 million a week.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Unpatriotic Brexit voters set to deprive our Royal Family of £1m a year funding
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ances-after-b/

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Now we're unpatriotic as well is there any negative term not yet applied to brexit voters fed up of the whole thing.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

'Let's give', is a suggestion,

'We are going to give.' Is confirming an action.

'Let's go to the park.' Is a suggestion.

'We're going to the park.' Is a confirmation.

You need to take up your own advice.

Either way, I and many others had made up their mind, way before any promises had been made and let's not forget, there was LIES on either side of the campaigns.

---------- Post added at 03:07 ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 ----------

I saw that comment from 1andrew1 and it was pathetic. It was an uneducated remark/attack, typically attributed to a narrow minded remoaner. I believe the social term, is 'trolling.'

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Still its very typical of many of the insincere , prevaricating , mendacious politicians that are prevalent in this country sadly.;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Let means allow or permit and let us is a exhortation of that, not a suggestion of it. Still let's not fall out over the meaning of words, it's not like the English language is important enough for the negotiations to be carried out in it

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7373556.html



---------- Post added at 07:20 ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 ----------

They're part of the reason we're leaving, people are fed up with them feathering their own nests.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

And do you think anything will change regarding our perfidious and duplicitous politicians now we are going out of Europe TD?.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yes, they won't be jumping on the EU gravy train anymore once they've been found out to be a waste of space in parliament for a start

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think he is intentionally mocking the use of unpatriotic to describe Remain voters.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

if you say so :ghugs:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

except that no where in that article linked was unpatriotic used ,it was all on 1andrew1.

Anyhoo ,all the Crown Estate could do is raise the cost of a lease on Regents street to cover the shortfall ,which is not considered to be major problem anyway

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Just demonstrating that the term "unpatriotic" can also be applied to people who voted to leave the EU and that overall it's daft to call people unpatriotic because they voted in one particular way.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

unpatriotic
not enthusiastically supporting one's country and its ways of life :shrug:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

l support this country and its way of life but l did not vote for Brexit so put that in your pipe and smoke it.:p:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

This entire argument is utter nonsense - is anyone seriously suggesting that the Brexit campaign* had the power to make any spending pledges? Come on guys, let's get real just for a few minutes. Whatever the intention or the figures quoted (which we can argue about ) the statement (along with all the others made by both sides) was an aspiration and that's all it could ever have been. I'd wager that every single person who's now claiming it was a promise would have been jumping up and down screaming if the actual wording chosen by Brexit had been "We promise to spend the £350m we'll save on the NHS". Forget the numbers, the Brexit campaign would have been shot to pieces by the media for promising what they had no power to deliver. They weren't because they didn't, simples.

It's funny how the argument has shifted from the £350m pw to spurious claims that a campaign group could somehow dictate future government policy. It's laughable.

* as opposed to the government of the day

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

well thanks to the intervention of my children i no longer smoke [or should i say no longer allowed to smoke] but i get what your saying you patriotically support the Brussels/EU model of what being patriotic is .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's not it though. There have been attempts by some to redefine patriotism as unquestioning support of both Brexit and the governments pursuit of a deal. It's an attempt to shame political opponents.

Now it's not something that especially bothers me, it's hardly a new tactic in politics and I don't really care if people think I am patriotic or not. I just find that fact than 1andrew1 use of it suddenly does bother people when applied to Brexit supporters amusing. I think he got the reaction he was looking for. ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

What a load of gibberish guff but alas that is becoming increasingly common from you.:)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

You could argue that supporting its way of life suggest no change in the status quo ie remain in the EU.

I wanted to demonstrate that you can be accused of being unpatriotic whichever way you voted. To accuse people of being unpatriotic as papers like The Express do is not constructive and can be offensive.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Sadly one can be accused of not being patriotic by some who obviously cannot debate like rational , reasoned adults thus they tend to throw these labels around willy nilly which frankly is pathetic IMO.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Agreed although compared to the US our politicians are pretty angelic!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

yes you could argue that supporting the EU is patriotic but patriotic to which state ?
i think the worry now is that some will act in an unpatriotic/undemocratic /unBritish way to try and reverse/ undermine the democratic decision made by the British people to take back control of the UK and leave the EU.

---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

make sure the saddle is nice and tight one wouldn't want you to fall off that high horse your perched on ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's why Brexit must be full. Otherwise the remoaners will slowly and sneakily slide us beck into the EU fold.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

and that would be unpatriotic bordering on treachery .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Agreed. As soon as I read the labels "Brextremeist" or "Remoaner" in an article it's usually a red flag to indicate that the article is going to be blinkered and unconstructive.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well l never expected that from you old boy.;).

MPs aim to force government to show its Brexit negotiating hand
 

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

:rofl: :dunce: Funny that because you just described most of your posts, in this thread, in that entire paragraph.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm sorry you feel that way.