Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Hi there,

I'm the author of Dephormation... I'm going to be looking for a new home shortly. My VM contract terminates 20 April so no more vm.d.g ... Can I join you lot instead? :)

Hi Pete and welcome to CF.

I'm a new member here myself but I'm sure you will be welcomed with the same friendliness they seems to be offered to all new members with a vested interest in the Phorm privacy issue ( I think that would be the 99% of the UK NOT trying to make a buck from this ).

Thanks for the great work with the Dephormation addon. It's exactly the sort of thing we need and hopefully if we can ever get an answer out of Phorm regarding their OIX partners you and others could work towards an addon that warns the user they are entering into data transaction with a server who is agreeing to share our browsing habits with Phorm.

I think there is an inevitability that we will all run out of people to complain to. I see it that all we can do is refuse to accept the responses and continue to complain, rewording the complaints with any relevant information so that somebody will have no choice but to take note.

Good to see you here. I'm personally of the opinion that CF will be the best place for people to gather for an exchange of information that might finally lead to us being able to mount a legal challenge as this technology becomes more insidious.

Regards

Craig.

Florence

14-04-2008 19:35

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I have today sent an email to Simon Watkins the email is quoted below.

Quote:

Hello Simon Watkin,

I have read the email about Phorm from you today, I feel you have been misguided on how Phorm plan to intercept my clicks.

Intercept is the correct word and following RIPE rules the layer 7 which seems Phorm either forgot to explain to you or were economical with the truth actually diverts my request to one of their boxes which then pretends to be the site I wish to visit, altering this sites cookie with the phorm details then at some point finally allowing me access to the site I wished to visit.

To me this is unlawful interception of my surfing habits on the second point I already block all advertisements online never see them so why would I want this company to snoop on my clicks to target me with adverts from only companies signed upto their packages. Which might not be the best deal on the internet but a dearer option due to all the backhand payouts to fat cats in Internet service providers. There are many websites online that specifically say you cannot do what phorm will do for 3rd party gain. This will then make the person visiting the criminal if the website brings legal action against them. The fact Labour are willing to allow this to come in shows they have totally disregarded the affect on the population, the website designers who many have the sites copyrighted, the sections of websites that people can visit but are locked so only those with the password are allowed to see which does exclude phorm and finally no regard for the people of UK who vote the prime minster in power normally just the present one isn't in by public vote. Infact you are opening a whole Pandora's box with this ruling which might come back later on and bite you back.
I hope that you will review this and take a look at the illegal trials undertaken by BT and Phorm in 2006/2007 where thousands of people where intercepted without their consent.

I am waiting in anticipation to see if their is a public inquiry into the trials by BT, These trials need to be investigated and those responsible brought to trial for the illegal activities without such an outcome those passing the book become distrusted and as voters we/I will look at who I can trust to give my vote to.

Hope to hear from you soon plus all replies or lack of a reply will be posted on the cableforum thread on phorm and Virgin media.
I do not give my consent plus due to VM stance on phorm I am in the process of moving from Virgin Media to a smaller ISP that has no intentions of joining phorm.
Regards.

Florence.

Hi Pete and welcome I also am a migration from VM to Aquiss.

Portly_Giraffe

14-04-2008 19:42

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34528399)

I don't know if they are trying to deflect this by dealing with the advertising bit rather than the privacy bit?

I have tried to ask a clear and unequivocal question by emailing the folk at commsdata@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk - that is:

"Between 23 September and 6 October 2006 and again in June 2007, BT trialled Phorm, a technology for intercepting, reading and analysing private Internet communications. At no time was consent sought from or granted by either the tens of thousands of users whose traffic was intercepted or the owners of the websites which they accessed.

Please tell me whether you intend to instigate criminal proceedings against BT and named individuals such as Emma Sanderson for breaching the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000."

I'm not optimistic that they will answer this, but if they do I will let the board know.

serial

14-04-2008 19:52

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Hi Guys, over on badphorm we've spotted this which you might find interesting:

http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-m...-200804142351/

"Hugo Drayton, the CEO of digital advertising company Phorm, Phorm has initially populated the OIX with data gathered from BT, Virgin and Carphone Warehouse on usersÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ internet browsing habits."

BeckyD

14-04-2008 20:11

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Found another article published today regarding how long companies should retain our data:

http://www.adotas.com/2008/04/phorm-...consumer-info/

Quote:

Phorm says the “three pillars” of its technology are:

It does not and cannot know who the user is
It cannot know where the user has been
It provides all users transparent notice and they can switch the Phorm service off at any time

:rolleyes:

Bonglet

14-04-2008 20:11

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I have posted letters off to a few places not going to say where or who or why incase some phorm guys jump on and use there strategic partnerships to skew it up ;).

amateria

14-04-2008 20:15

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial (Post 34528439)

What data gathered from Virgin Media users?

---------- Post added at 20:15 ---------- Previous post was at 20:13 ----------

Can anyone get to this meeting? It sounds as though it could be much, much more interesting than the meeting in London.

Pasanonic

14-04-2008 20:17

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial (Post 34528439)

Thanks for that.

I only became aware of that meeting today and as a Manchester businessman I enquired to the possibility of tickets. I've not had a reply but there now appears to be a resale of standard tickets at Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£41 and if I can get assurances I can record the meeting I'll try and get there.

unicus

14-04-2008 20:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasanonic (Post 34528289)

( thanks Pheonix labs, still no working version for us Vista users I note )

When I tried (then dumped) vista I got this version of PG2 working;

http://phrosty.phoenixlabs.org/pg2-rc1/

Pasanonic

14-04-2008 20:33

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unicus (Post 34528485)

When I tried (then dumped) vista I got this version of PG2 working;

http://phrosty.phoenixlabs.org/pg2-rc1/

Cheers. I'll give it a go. When I last tried I was on my Vista 64 machine. I'm also running two machines with Vista 32 Ultimate including my main machine so I shall see if I get results with this.

Ravenheart

14-04-2008 20:35

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I've just printed a couple of letters, which I'll be posting tomorrow, hopefully we'll get a good reply from both organisations ;)

Winston Smith

14-04-2008 20:39

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial (Post 34528439)

Err, what? Where did they get this data from. Does this mean they ran trials with Virgin and CPW and kept them better hidden than BT managed, or did those two ISP's just hand over data without asking?

davidb24v

14-04-2008 20:49

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Just read a couple of the links posted recently.

From here http://www.adotas.com/2008/04/phorm-...consumer-info/ they say:

Quote:

# It does not and cannot know who the user is
# It cannot know where the user has been

and yet this link http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-m...-200804142351/ says:

Quote:

Phorm has initially populated the OIX with data gathered from BT, Virgin and Carphone Warehouse on users’ internet browsing habits.

Is it me, or are those statements just totally contradictory? You can't "populate" anything with that data which you don't (allegedly) retain surely?

I tend to hope that the second link is just a misunderstanding on the page author's part but given the way this phiasco has unfolded I do wonder.

Phorm are telling whoever they speak to what they think that person/organisation/group wants to hear. Maybe they're planning to stand for election somewhere :rolleyes:

Dave

Kursk

14-04-2008 20:50

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Reflecting on yesterday's particularly torrid episode on Cable Forum, there's one thing that strikes me as being rather sad about the discussion and that is that Simon Davies, MD of 80/20 Thinking and campaigner at Privacy International, was crossing swords with the very people whose values are so very much like those that he has so vociferously and effectively delivered for a good part of his adult life.

There is a classic story about the late great George Best who was encountered one day by a hotel waiter: George was looking worse for wear in a bed strewn with cash, a voluptuous blond and a sidestand of champagne. The waiter, remembering the only thing that mattered to him which was George's footballing genius, asked George "Where did it all go wrong Mr Best?"

George was wealthy, successful and used to recount the story himself for comedic purposes, but he possibly missed the inherent pathos . In the eyes of his fans, George's new life had cost him the very thing that made him what he was. Their hero.

As tomorrow's meeting in which Simon will sit with his client, Phorm Ltd, who represent the greatest threat to online privacy in the UK for years, I offer this question:

Where did it all go wrong Simon?

Pasanonic

14-04-2008 20:54

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Dave, with regard to the statement on how do regarding the population of OIX I have left a message ( in administration right now ) asking them to cite references for this information or for them to amend the post to read correctly.

I am of the opinion that this is not statement of fact but rather a misconception by the author and therefore an erroneous comment.

Craig

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