Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ah OK, I see what you’re getting at I think. Of your choices, my preferred option at present would be option 2, be in the EU but not as part of some kind of federal arrangement. Basically what David Cameron came back with, avoiding the ‘ever closer union’.

Obviously, we are very unlikely to be in the EU for much longer so, from a business perspective, working for an international company, selling to other international companies, being in a customs union and single market would be ideal. Hopefully having some say in those would be great! Doing business with non-EU/EEA countries is a massive pain.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So in this post, you said:

I even defended you in this post by saying:

Now I am assuming that it is your own interests / buisness to protect your family members / siblings from having pictures of what is up their skirt taken by someone.

Correct?

So by your own definition, if it is your own business to protect your family (and nothing else though I assume that you might be advocating to try protect the interests of every woman?) then are you suggesting that your advocacy is a deport-able offense??

(The irony, that if it was an illegal immigrant who was the culprit yet you were the one who got deported lol).

I am confused, did you mean Gina's business interests? But even on that front, it makes no sense. The whole point of leaving the EU is so that as Brits we become the most selfish nation on the planet and protect only what is ours, take control of what we can, and so on.

Isn't she just assimilating with the selfishness of your average two bit nationalist?

Or are you suggesting that we should engage in acts of voluntary repatriation for those who don't share the mentality of the state first doctrine?

Your post makes absolutely no sense to me and this part, please explain / elaborate only right now Gina Miller seems to have the mechanisms of capitalism worked out and you seem to be suggesting that she (as a citizen) is deported, having her citizenship revoked...(while giving evidence of your own well meaning acts of selfishness, all at the same time).

Please explain. (I swear I can't be getting your comments this wrong and you seem like a sincere and nice guy so correct me on this, please. :))

As much as I hate to say it (and not in personal regard to you, I hope that your job works out) but I do kind of want to see some of the real life consequences of leaving the EU come home. It is not very Christian of me to wish ill but a little "reality" for those who believe in the cake and eat it / land of milk and honey stuff would not be a bad thing. Mick said to me earlier that no amount of anything would make him regret his vote / wish that he voted to remain. And I was glad of that - like I am about what you just said. I like principle and people who fight on grounds of sincerity - you are not a hypocrite and are willing to put your money where your mouth is.

Like I said in my previous post above, it is the reality of the situation that businesses and jobs are going to disappear - that is not fearmongering. I am glad that people like you are willing to stand up and say "if my job goes, then so be it". That I can respect. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yeah and to what nation would they be sent? Voluntary repatriation...to where?

:erm:

Natural born citizens with no other citizenship...I can't imagine Hom3r was being serious in his post. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

To be fair though David, you don't like your job...

I have to admit a degree of admiration though regardless.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That would be my stance too.

To clarify - discussing the negative impacts that Brexit is cited to bring or has brought is not some kind of conspiracy to thwart Brexit. What I find particularly interesting is how the Irish border can be solved. That tin can has been well and truly kicked down the road and because it's not being discussed right now, doesn't mean it's gone away. A hard Brexit would mean a hard border no ifs and buts and maybes. Theresa May has promised no hard border but David Davis has now said that a hard Brexit is a possibility. So many contradictory statements from our government.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

A hard borderin Ireland would be introduced by the EU not the Uk. And serve them right. When Ireland was up schmitt creek in 2008, we bailed our friends out with a 7 billion loan. That’s how they thank us by playng the Good Friday card (the Agreementdoesn’t even mention the border).

The border thing is just an EU wheeze to keep us in the Customs Union.

Just as well that May’s backstop is covered by nothing is agree till everything is agreed.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Factually incorrect. To trade on WTO rules, you need a hard border. So the UK and Ireland would need one in place in the event of a no-deal Brexit. So, nothing's being played, this is a reality.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Thank you - the kind of response from you does set my mind at ease that the majority of people here do not espouse the views that Hom3r was advocating and I was unsure if he meant it or not - I assumed that it was either a very crass joke or just flippant sarcasm.

The definition was perfect on your part - his comments specifically espouse the doctrine of fascism.

Yeah it sadly does pass off the impression of what Roger Helmer did through his parliamentary run - tar and feather the entire party of UKIP as voluntary repatriation proponents when nothing could be further from the truth.

Farage of all people even said after the debate that the first thing that Britain should do is unilaterally guarantee the rights of all EU citizens otherwise it makes Britain look like a banana republic. Sadly with views like hom3r's (if serious) make the UK look exactly like that - labelled as a banana Republic.

Thank you again for your post - it would indeed be wrong to see everyone who voted leave labelled as those of having crazy views and I hate the idea of that - whether it is in regards to gender / race / nationality / age etc etc.

More sane people who voted leave coming forward with their own opinions / views will expand the debate and the more voices the more rational the issue will be, because most of us still have faith that the decency of human beings (whatever side of the aisle that you are on) will prevail - shutting out people from the debate / out of the country is exactly what you described it as - the precursor to fascism.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You may well be right about WTO rules. But that was fathest from my mind. Up front was the EU/Irish ploy at using the Good Friday Agreement as a means of making life easier for Ireland. The perfidious Varadkar had WTO farthest from his mind when he commenced his perfidy.

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

Your kind words about me are appreciated.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You say "do not tar all Brexiters with that brush" but then you paint yourself with another: "those Brussels turds". Using such language encourages no-one to enter into a serious adult debate.

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

You keep saying this but having that many people in your country does not preordain economic prosperity. Don't forget a lot of our "in-house skills" as you put it are vulnerable to Multinationals deciding to off shore them if the economic outlook is not favourable to them.

The industry I work in, IT, has seen many highly skilled UK workers made redundant not because they were not skilled or productive but because the company wanted to employ cheaper staff in Eastern Europe, India, China, etc.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:51 ----------

Just a reminder that we are a sovereign state, just not in the way you want.

I had thought we had left behind the childish Project Fear labelling. If you object to the information presented, just explain why it is wrong and present your own counter argument, backed by facts.

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Not true, I for one tried to reply to your assertion that the EU is a project designed to make Germany richer. You just do not like the answers.

I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago and after visiting the various WWII institutions, can clearly understand why they are motivated in the way they are and why they are so nervous of the rise of nationalism across Europe.

As Churchill said in 1957:

I feel he would saddened by the attitude of many in the UK ..

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

What is it with "perfidy"? :)

Don't you see the job of the EU, which includes Eire, is to get the best outcome for their members, not for us. We are the ones who are divorcing them! Maybe we can get a divorce on the grounds of our mental incapacity ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The problem is, Andrew, you see every difficulty as an insurmountable problem.

As an example, one simple way of overcoming the border issue between Ireland and Northern Ireland is to give NI membership of the WTO in its own right. That particular solution was put forward by Pascal Lamy himself, who is the former Head of the WTO.

As I have said many times before on this thread, solutions to intractable problems are often found by thinking outside of the box.

The NI border issue is a complete red herring and is not a 'barrier' to a successful Brexit. Solutions are available, although Barnier seems to enjoy rejecting everything put in front of him. He'd better make the most of it, because the clock is ticking (tick tock :D) and it will soon be time for him to get real and stop messing about.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Barney knows that, it's bluff pure and simple and I like the rhetoric we are using, no deal is back on the table, as is the prospect of losing our contributions fully and having a neighbour who doesn't give a toss about his fair and level playing field. All this talk of businesses leaving is all to do with money to, they're worried their bottom line will be effected, that's why imo the end deal will look remarkably similar to what we have now in all respects and the only people that'll upset is the extremists on both sides and who frankly gives a toss about them

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I did not say that they had something to do with each other. Your use of such adjectives to describe the EU betrays a lack of objectivity. You seem blinded by your hatred of the Eu to assess what might be a reasonable compromise.

You equate the use of the "turds in Brussels trying to screw us" as "serious adult debate"? Nil points from the UK jury :)