Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've tinkered with the wording so that it's as it would be in an actual notice:

"We hereby serve notice that in accordance with sections 1 and 2 of RIPA, that we send and receive electronic communications (website traffic) on our following websites:

LIST OF WEBSITES

and that

- we do not consent, either as sender or recipient, to any interception of any of our website traffic for any purpose whatsoever
- the fact that our website has been made available for download subject to its terms and conditions of use may not be construed as consent to any interception of our website traffic
- in particular, we do not consent to any interception, either as sender or receiver, of our website traffic, even if the interception were for the purposes of ascertaining whether or not we consented to such interception."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phew! Take a few hours off to do domestics and look what happens...

I'd love to see Phorm get its backside kicked up to its neck from as many angles as possible. I'd love to see BT get dragged through the courts and crucified (yes, there is a degree of maliciousness there but I've already briefly mentioned why and nothing will change that - karma will repay BT for what it's done to me) and I'd love to see Virgin Media do what The Guardian did and reject Phorm with a really bitchslapping (can I say that mod?) statement. Then for the investigatory powers to tell Phorm they are illegal under RIPA.

The only way things like that are going to happen is if we keep on target with the facts and the issues. If things get personal we don't help ourselves. Keep it professional, respectful and on target. The most successful backside kicking I've achieved has come not when I've gone nuclear but when I've kept it professional. There's a lesson there. Annoying when there are people out there who deserve nothing less than a darn good kicking but the result is more important.

I'd like to thank Simon for coming to CF and engaging us in discussion. He didn't have to. He could have just said "See you on Tuesday" and left it at that. It's Phorm and the ISPs that should be our targets here. Yes, 80/20T have been commissioned to do a PIA. So let's input into that process rather than start slating people involved in it. If you're going to win the game you've got to play by the rules. Remember, Simon has come here with a background that's nothing like Phorm has and 80/20T has a published code of ethics to which they must surely expect to be held to account.

These little factoids about strategic companies are all very interesting but if you set your scopes too wide you pull in too much information to analyse and lose focus. We know some of the circumstances surrounding the PIA. Perhaps more will come to light on Tuesday (full Terms Of Reference would be nice). Let's read the PIA closely, highlight the areas which seem questionable and ask why those conclusions were reached when the PIA is published.

We all believe in our message. Tuesday is an opportunity to get that message across to media outlets and to push it into the PIA even more by asking the questions Phorm don't want to answer. I personally don't think the two bods phrom Phorm will be all that interested in what those opposing them have to say. When Ahmedinajad spoke at Columbia University did he listen to what the Chancellor of the University had to say? Did he take it seriously? No, he didn't. He was never going to. Same with Mugabe and Gordon Brown's demanding the Zimbabwe election results are published.

Generally I've got a short temper. A real illegitimate sort of temper, if you know what I mean. One very respected leader in his sector I was working for took me to one side and we talked for a while about work stuff. "It's how you get the message across as much as the message itself," he said. "Keeping your lid on, staying professional is always the better way, even when it's an issue you believe so passionately in, as I know you do here. I think you are right but you need to get the right message across." Of course, he could say that because he had a huge and disarming smile :) Something I do not. He was also 6ft 5in tall and built like a wing forward, something I am not.

On a slightly humorous note, anyone who wants really serious personal abuse should head on over to rec.arts.drwho and say how much you love Sylvester McCoy's portrayal of The Doctor. Then sit back and watch your mailbox melt with the flames. Not a course of action I'd recommend, mind...

On another side note, has anybody thought of contacting The Sun or The News Of The World about this? They've done a good job humiliating Max Mosley, after all...

Goodnight all, see you anon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you think about it Simon has a point.
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22...t-beaten-death
http://www.is-watch.net/node/980
etc.
We in this country (ies - from where I am posting) have the rights and ability to challenge this kind of thing.
Alexander, if you were on the same crusade in China you would have a tin hat on and be waiting for the sounds of black helicopters.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

We should indeed be targetting the ISPs. But what does Simon's PIA have to do with the ISPs? Phorm's PR keeps saying "but Phorm will not be processing any personal information" and that may be true. But if the ISPs don't intercept my data, then the question of Phorm processing or not processing my personal data does not arise.

So what Phorm would or would not do, given the chance, seems a side issue. Unfortunately, as far as I can see, neither 80/20, Simon nor PI are engaging with the interception issue.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hmm

i realise there are many life and death things out there my concern on this does not diminish in any way my concerns over them

i do however put this above what government does in snooping on me

we can vote them in and out of power and if its mi5 et al to think we can stop them is laughable in my book and hence of much less concern to me

but to let businesses gain control in any way how ever slight OR even give them the capability to do so at almost the flick of a switch does bother me considerably

i can see no way to interpret dpa ripa or the European directive on communications in any other way than what they have done or are about to do is illegal

and to say that what they do after they steal our data is some how good because they remove personal information is laughable

bit like the post office opening all my letters photocopying them blacking out names and addresses and saying they never looked while they did so

i would still be expecting them to get prosecuted just for opening it

non elected persons should never with out my explicit consent ever see anything of mine

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

some basic information for any shot video footage of the event:
depanding on your footage cam spec, another perhaps better option for far better quality in sound,vision and filesize.

as well as YouTube, you might also put an AVC encoded copy on the Vuse/Azureus3 torrent network.

for simplicity, just run your edited footage through VLC and use the H.264 transcode mode inside an mpeg container.

AVC, aka(H.264/Mpeg4-part10) being the better option today.

http://www.vuze.com/app

they even have an HiDef user content section , grab a copy and run it in Vuse GUI mode to see a selection of content and its quality, far better than tube...

---------- Post added at 00:20 ---------- Previous post was yesterday at 23:54 ----------

sure, we all get that..., but the simple fact is while its commendable 80/20Thinking and others are giving a % of the take to 3rd world and other related rights projects world wide.

who exactly is looking after the rights we all assume we have that our commonwealth mothers and fathers, grand parents etc have died for in this country and elsewere?

weres the diligence in this country (or upcoming in the US for that matter) making sure we dont sleepwalk into the surveillance society.

we already had the past CCTV, and thats now a money maker were you cant get easy access to the footage even after sending a DPA request, the same might end up being true of the IDcard in whatever form they slip through, and now this DPI interweb connected ISP/Phorm part of the puzzle is nearly upon us.

do you really want this to be yet another hourse+gate+close, situation by not using diligence right now, and for as long as it takes, using any lawful means available.

they even bypassed the usual "we need it to uphold/stop the law breaking" excuses, and went directly to the "its free and good for you" PR.

we all know just like the CCTV, the Govt and other 3rd partys probably think they can cash in on the data gathering later big time...,the UK CRA's for one concreate example looking to use this same DPI layer7 kit for profit.

diligence is required, and right now, IN THIS COUNTRY.

---------- Post added at 01:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:20 ----------


more to the point, rather than jump right now (doesnt that make two BT people posting here now that have proof? i forget) cant he be helped to put his case to scotland yard and have them give him a case No. that can be followed up with the injunction as was talked about.....way back now.


or are we leaving that to another day ;)

im suprised no bobbys,lawyers or QC's have posted to this thread, or at least not publicly announced their job as a sidenote to their personal comments so far...

iv asked a few and pointed them here so there must be some at least reading.

---------- Post added at 01:32 ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 ----------

can you make it available in plain old text format, not everyone has MS products or compatable MS Doc readers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

care of the
Charles Arthur

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...omment-1046919 Tech blog.

Gnasherx makes some excellent points on the guardian blog in relation to my earlyer post "did they follow the PIA rules, i wonder" on this CF thread, see #27 for the PIA links.

to improve the odds and try and get some clear answers before tuesday relating to the PIA , i have included his questions here.

---------- Post added at 05:48 ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 ----------

;), its OK Simon, you might be the CEO of your company , but your also just a bloke,that eats, sleeps and the other thing just like the rest of us.

remember, its people that make a company, and people are just people at the end of the day, no matter were they sit on the board.

you can come and go as you please here, after all this is the open Independent cable forum message board, dedicated to helping everyone that needs/ask for help on many matters, not just Broadband or web matters.

im thinking of putting you up for a Nominations for the Most Helpful Post of April 2008 :angel: run by our very own Incognitas without fail every month.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/27...il-2008-a.html
Bump.

you can be just another member here if you like, but we reserve the right to ask a question now and again, and your right to ignore it if you please.

with that in mind, you might also take a look in your Expanding rollerdex, and give Neil as call... and tell him to get himself over here, we have several idea's that we want him to understand regarding the VM business model and products and what we want from it, he's missing a lot of real feedback he might find interesting here. ;)

---------- Post added at 06:19 ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 ----------

:clap:

how Dare you say that , everyone knows john pertwee was the finest portrayal of the Doctor ever..., along with the UNIT Family story lines :mad:
:( ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Pertwee

---------- Post added at 07:54 ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 ----------

BTW, did anyone remember to email Tim Berners-Lee and tell him to come look at this CF thread and perhaps contribute?.
----------------------------

---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 ----------

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/me...ng-808600.html
---------- Post added at 08:06 ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 ----------

INTERESTING...... bringing in the Phorm UK CEO into the news stories.
something to watch out for, and add some more names to the searchs.

and he talks up the paying crowd on the same day and time as the PIA down london....

see below.
http://www.phorm.com/about/exec_drayton.php
http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-m...-200804142351/
---------------------------------

---------- Post added at 08:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 ----------

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/105105373
"
---------- Post added at 08:15 ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 ----------

http://www.manchesterdigital.com/eve...=view&id=67716
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

URGENT

Ok now I'm extremely concerned, a few days ago I installed a programme called Peerguardian 2, I never use P2P but it alerts you when other things are sniffing around too, a few minutes ago an alert set off and here's a link to a screen of the results

http://brumjo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Phormactive.jpg

It has since gone off a few times, and i now have a blocked list full of it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

that ip is mentioned here

does that mean someone on the BY part of the VM network have pluged in and trialed the Virgin Media/Phorm DPI boxs.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...grul/comments/
"
A reply to the alleged 'Tech Team' at Phorm

By Anonymous Coward
Posted Sunday 9th March 2008 07:14 GMT
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/04/29.png "In terms of future safeguards, the key is transparency. We will communicate any changes and our claims will continue to be subject to external scrutiny by formal audit, partner due diligence, customer vigilance and media interest."

Thats a hell of a statement to make especially in light of BT's response to their customers "We cant talk about that".

Thats about as far away from transparent as you can get, trying to dupe customers into an extended contract and failing to disclose the T&C.

Will you still guarantee that even in the face of an RIPA order? As far as I can see your organisation is about as transparent as a brick wall.

And now we discover that you are effectively intercepting layer 7.....
You arent winning friends here, given how un-transparently this was revealed to customers you have a lot of work ahead if you want to win trust.

Did the people who's data was pimped to you in the trial get the option to opt-out? were they even told what was going on? Did their ISP communicate what was going on? Did the T&C's mention anything about it whatsoever? Or did they try to cover it up becuase it looked like something very wrong was happening on their network and our businesses interfaces to that network.

You sir and your organisation have all the transparent features of a brick wall.


"But what our research shows is that users worry about security online and prefer to have more relevant advertising."

*******s, users want no advertising, irrespective of whether that is achievable or even cost-effective is another question.

Given the prevelance of anti-spyware and anti adware (funnily both key revenue streams for your organisation) I'd say that the evidence points to the latter.

Those of us who have had to deal with one of your lovely toolbars know exactly how difficult it was to get rid off them once they were on a system.
Needless to say:-
88.208.250.66
88.208.250.85
88.208.248.102
*.live-servers.net

Will be blocked on all ports on my corporate firewall tomorrow. I'll review whether *.fasthosts.net.uk should be as well.

And while you may claim that you were never in the business of spyware/malware, any system that 1. Tracks a users browsing habbits; and 2. Allows you to alter the content of any site that individual visits; sounds a whole hell of a lot like spyware/malware to me, Just because you say you dont do it, does not mean you cant or wont.

PS: Still no KE with horns or cat for that matter. Wishing all the guys at phorm a real shitty day."

---------- Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

and here
#2009

---------- Post added at 09:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

what on that 192.168.1.100 BTW , your router perhaps?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've just phoned VM, once I got through I asked the customer service rep could they tell me when Virgin enabled the Phorm spyware system. She asked me to hold on one moment and put me on hold, then after a minute or two they hung up.

I'm redialling now

Edit: Second CS rep claimed it was a technical problem and I had to phone the 0906 212 1111 number. I said I wasn't paying for that and she said ohh well then I can't help you.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Stop

---------- Post added at 09:20 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

you want to get a copy of the raw stream first before it goes away for proof later if it is infact something.....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I also have installed Peer Guardian 2 and have been following the thread here and on the BT forums, this morning I can no longer reach the BT forums at all as all attempts are blocked by Peer Guardian and showing Phorm .com as the problem.

Does this mean that it is now live and no one bothered to ask for consent ?:mad:


Also showing Phorm.com when viewing this thread.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Would it be possible for some one to publish a list of standard letters, to ISP's & MP's

I am sorry if there is a list of standard letters, but I did not see it!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How would I do that Popper?

thanks

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok all new article on the register:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/14/bt_phorm_2007/

".....Today Phorm said the 2007 trial was actually performed on "tens of thousands" of lines. It refused to provide a specific figure, but at the absolute least there are 38,000 BT Retail customers unaware their communications have been allegedly criminally intercepted in the last two years. The number could be as high as 108,000."