Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36102446)

Cash in hand work is easier to find for those who are not asylum seekers so they get rid of ID come here and work on the side hidden and unknown

And that won't be those travelling in boats:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...n-small-boats/

Quote:

However, we do have official information regarding how many Channel migrants claimed asylum for 2020 up until September. In oral evidence to the Home Affairs Committee on 3 September 2020, the Director General of UKVI stated that of the 5,000 people who had made it to the UK in 2020 to that date, 98% had claimed asylum.

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 16:18 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36102455)

Almost 26,000 'boat' people this year into the UK.
I'd estimate another 250 to 350 thousand here legally.

Lets go for a rather conservative figure of 300,000 migrants into the UK this year then. That's 300,000 that need food & drink, power for heating & cooking plus a roof over their head to do it in. Jobs, benefits, or student loans to be able to have those things, with schooling and health care when required.

How any was it last year . . 300,000 also?

Next years estimate anyone?

Close to a million extra people now aren't we . . . now look at some of the headlines lately regarding shortages and price rises.

However, it's not bad news, far from it. Economic experts have revealed that migrants contribute ££thousands££ more to the UK than people born & bred here, so we're on a winner, we just can't see it ;)

And legal migration and asylum seekers via the channel crossings are two completely different issues.

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36102446)

First point. Prudent question and I refer to my answer on certain asylum seeker statistics. Cash in hand work is easier to find for those who are not asylum seekers so they get rid of ID come here and work on the side hidden and unknown

Again the deflection is placed on them rather than the people exploiting them, if this is the reason then the focus should be on the people employing and housing them illegally and why our government isn't doing anything about it

Quote:

When Brexit was voted for I knew any benefits from it would not be seen for a number of years. I do not rule it as failed just because things have not magically changed straight away

I'll refrain from saying that's convenient and simply point out it's only now ponces like rees Smug are saying the benefits may be fifty years away, before they were saying it would be the day after and the easiest deal ever

Re: Britain outside the EU

You got sources for all that, Carth?

Ben & Andrew would need to see these!

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36102456)

And that won't be those travelling in boats:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...n-small-boats/

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 16:18 ----------

And legal migration and asylum seekers via the channel crossings are two completely different issues.

do you honestly think we know of everyone who comes over?

Re: Britain outside the EU

sources are out there - examples: some not quite 'up to date' but you decide if they're now much different

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/rece...3-0e250df6dbba

Quote:

The average UK-based migrant from Europe contributed approximately £2,300 more to UK public finances in 2016/17 than the average UK adult. In comparison, each UK born adult contributed £70 less than the average, and each non-European migrant contributed over £800 less than the average.
The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), and the average non-European migrant will make a positive net contribution of £28,000 while living here. By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59375590

Quote:

The Home Office said 886 people arrived on Saturday, bringing the 2021 total to more than 25,700. The figure for last year was 8,469.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...rexit-pandemic

Quote:

The number of new immigrants and size of the UK foreign-born population has grown in recent years. From March 2019 to March 2020 (at the time of writing, the most recent period for which there were data), the United Kingdom received 708,000 migrants. Accounting for non-UK citizens who left the country, immigration increased the country’s population by 347,000 over this period.

. . and yes Ben, legal migration and asylum seekers via the channel crossings are two completely different issues but have the same needs when they get here.

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36102463)

do you honestly think we know of everyone who comes over?

No, but you have to use what you do know to shape policy and views.

And by that you have to build in 'unknowns' into your data - although he got ribbed for it at the time, the Donald Rumsfeld 'Known Unknowns' and 'Unknown Unknowns' is valid way of quantifying things you don't know for analysis.

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36102474)

. . and yes Ben, legal migration and asylum seekers via the channel crossings are two completely different issues but have the same needs when they get here.

We block asylum seekers and refugees awaiting a claim decision from working, so of course their state support needs are higher. But in addition to what you posted, this shows that legal immigrants do not have the same needs:

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...5/CBP-7445.pdf

Quote:

Are non-UK nationals more likely to receive out-of-work benefits
than UK-nationals?

No. Non-UK nationals at the point of NINo registration are less likely to be receiving key DWP out-of-work benefits than UK-nationals.

According to the Labour Force Survey, in the first three months of 2016 people born outside the UK comprised 17.6% of the working age population. At the same time, in February 2016, 7.4% of working-age individuals receiving key-out-work benefits were non-UK nationals.

Re: Britain outside the EU

Of all the posts I made I only really expected to get pulled up on the Farage videos. Any comments on the content? the French escorting immigrants into British waters and leaving them there? Surely no one thinks that is ok ?

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36102481)

All fake mate, lots of old newsreel footage expertly edited by those damn Ruskies to take attention away from their new stealth sub offloading boxes of Cornish Pasties on the Irish coast near Galway . . . all conveniently labeled 'made in the UK' of course ;)

or sumfink

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36102485)

Hows about when an ITV This Morning Reporter Witnesses it ?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...glish-channel/

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36102481)

You should expect that people will ask you to back up your benefits statement with evidence that it is the reason. Otherwise, it becomes a circular "I'm right, you're wrong argument" and not a useful discussion where we all learn something.

I doubt anyone disagrees on what the French have done seems to be wrong. Maybe something to raise with your MP?

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36102434)

Ianch is still living the Brexit referendum. A hopeless position.

He talks of deflection from other political issues and that is pure BS. Illegal immigration is an issue in its own right with huge long term implications for society (the children and the grandchildren, etc); same goes for those who overstay their visas, a deflection that he has introduced

This is priceless! I point out that the issue of migrants arriving by boat is dwarfed by the issue of those who overstay their visas and I am "deflecting"? "I insist on obsessing on channel crossing migrants, it is the only thing that is important in the UK at the moment". Jeez ..

Meanwhile, behind this smokescreen of distraction, Priti Patel has been:

quietly been stuffing even more punitive anti-protest powers into the policing bill

Quote:

She’s done it very quietly. Away from prying eyes, in the parts of parliament which journalists don’t pay much attention to, Priti Patel has effectively criminalised the act of protest. The Government waited until the final stages of a bill’s legislative process and then suddenly proposed a series of amendments, leaving reporters and human rights groups very little time to raise the alarm.

The mechanism she’s used is the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts bill, which first went before the Commons in March for its initial debate, and is now being turned into something even more alarming in the House of Lords.

The bill was already a stunningly draconian piece of legislation. One of its chief provisions was to allow police to impose severe restrictions on protests on the basis of noise. If they were loud enough to cause “serious unease, alarm or distress” to a single passer-by – a description which covers any demonstration at all – the police power was triggered.

But the most far-reaching and alarming part of the legislation is called an SDPO, or Serious Disruption Prevention Order. It is one of the most egregious assaults on individual freedom we’ve seen in modern legislation.

An SDPO is basically a protest Asbo. It can be imposed on anyone convicted of a “protest-related offence”. This category alone is extremely broad. It potentially applies, under the provisions of the bill itself, to the examples above – possessing superglue near a demonstration, or holding hands during a protest.

But even that is not enough. Amendment 342M.2.iii allows it to be imposed on people whose activities “were likely to result in serious disruption”. In other words, you do not even have to have been convicted of a crime. You do not even need to have caused disruption. It’s enough that you might have.

Once the order is imposed, it eradicates your rights to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. Those under an order can be forced to report to the authorities whenever the courts demand it, as often as they demand it. They must “present themselves to a particular person at a particular place at… particular times on particular days”.

---------- Post added at 19:18 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36102422)

Farage is a great man (I would only vote for him if stood for the Conservatives)

Surely, you don't mean the unpleasant individual who was responsible for this do you?

Farage Defends 'Vile And Racist' EU Poster

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFC_iPjX...jpg&name=small

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36102500)

No - you are the "priceless" one. The migrants issue is not by any means dwarfed by other issues, It is one of many. There is serious risk from non-documented male migrants who could be ISIS terrorists. See Lithuania for details:

https://baltics.news/2021/10/15/up-t...-side-of-isis/

Quote:

The Deputy Minister of the Interior states to LRT RADIO that there are indications that up to fourteen migrants associated with terrorist organizations have entered Lithuania illegally from Belarus.

Do you support the influx of undocumented migrants? Do please answer this question.

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36102502)

Still obsessed I see.

Yes, I do support the UK taking its fair share of Asylum Seekers. I am surprised you don't.

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36102508)

Still obsessed I see.

Yes, I do support the UK taking its fair share of Asylum Seekers. I am surprised you don't.

If they are seeking asylum why do they end up here? the rule is you seek asylum in the first safe country. They are breaking the rules leaving France and therefore are no longer asylum seekers

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36102509)

the rule is you seek asylum in the first safe country.

No it's not as I posted earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36102350)

As a refugee, you would want to claim asylum in a country that you could feel safe in, rather than a country that is 'safe'.

For instance, refugees that don't speak French or who have any understanding of French culture may not feel safe there as they would be cut off from interacting with others.

Also - https://fullfact.org/immigration/ref...-safe-country/

Incorrect. The UN Refugee Convention does not make this requirement of refugees, and UK case law supports this interpretation. Refugees can legitimately make a claim for asylum in the UK after passing through other “safe” countries.