Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

it's not reducing heavy downloaders to tears, what it is doing is affecting people who do the majority of their surfing when they get home, it is most definately not affecting heavy downloaders, as i think you will find in several threads they say themselves they dont care because they just download after 12pm.

it seems that you are labeling everyone who complains as someone who downloads illegal content and that seems to be the whole basis of your argument.

so how about you do me a lemon

and i think you'll find i haven't "flamed" anyone, however i have an opinion just like you.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

I agree! :)
I really disagree when people accuse anyone who complains as being an illegal downloader or they are the reason anyway why all this throttling is there for. there were hardly any problems at all with speeds for everyone before the 20MB and the throttling. but all of a sudden there is loads of problems. why????! :Yikes:

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

(i got bored again :dunce:), came up with this using slightly sketchy numbers and my math may be off (more than likely it is lol). i based it on how long it took me to download 400mb which was about 15 mins, if anyone wants to correct it feel free as i'm not very good at this kind of thing just looking for insight. this is what traffic shaping is doing to the various packages.

4pm - 12 am - 8 hours traffic shaping is in effect

2mb = 6.4gb max traffic / shaped for 6 hours = 3.2gb @ 1mb speed + 700mb @ 2mb speed

4mb = 12.8gb max traffic / shaped for 6 hours 40 minutes @ 2mb = 6.4gb @ 2mb speed + 1.5gb @ 4mb speed

10mb = 32gb max traffic / shaped 7 hours 20 minutes @ 5mb = 16gb @ 5mb speed + 6gb @ 10mb speed

20mb = 64gb max traffic / shaped 7 hours 40 minutes @ 5mb = 16gb @ 5mb speed + 6gb @ 20mb speed

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Just a thought:
If its people maxing out their UPLOAD speed that causes more impact on the whole network, why not INSTEAD of limiting download speeds, why not just limit the upload speeds during peak time, then anyone that wants to download can, and still that small majority that just use the net for emails and general browsing could still do so!

Or am I talking bubbles?

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Users have been crying out for decent uplaods for years, we still have crap uploads, the fact is the ISP needs to spend cash on upgrades instead of pocketing or wasting profits (read yesterdays news).

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

so if im reading you right florence, they told you or implyed, that this whole 5% figure perhaps comes from as far back as the 512k download days for the amount of data that could be downloaded in the 24 hours and hence the figure for tier's we see today?.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

And that is basically the problem. Companies want your money but they dont want you to use *what is advertised*. Even now there is no clear link to their new FUP (not AUP) on the signup page. And muck talk about 'unlimited' Why would a casual Web Browser even care about 'unlimited'. The Advertising Standards Agengency or whoever need to give these companies a big kick up the backside.

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/webs...duct.do?id=227

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

are you making the classic mistake of assuming that the AUP is the contract?, it's not.

the T&C is the only consumer contract, and theres the matter of 'reciprication' any clause most cover both partys in equal measure or it can become null and void.

true you may need to fill out a county court fileing, or report the matter to Ofcom for them to get/seek assurances from the company that they will not try and enforce any null contract clause, but the option is there if you are willing to write the letter and send it registered post at minimal costs.

the moral is 'just because someone writes a clause into the consumer contract doesnt make it right or proper or lawful', challenge it and see how long it lasts, and that goes for any consumer contract even cable and ADSL broadband service providers.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

i was just thinking and thought i remembered there being no mention in the original contract of any kind of a limit or restriction and no mention of a fair use clause. either way that is all in the past now as i accepted the new contract which does mention fair use/acceptable use when i got upgraded for free because my old stb broke.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

and its also understood that the 'Autobahns' is engineered for the given amount of traffic per hour and allowances made for peak times, put more traffic on there than it was designed for at peak, and the need for traffic shaping I.e speed limits becomes a factor FOR SAFETY reasons.

its also assumed that the owners will be monitoring the needs of the traffic, and if its seen that there is a growing need to add more capacity as your selling more machines, they build on another lane or two all the way from your entry point to the most popular destinations with a view that its better to spend the tax money on moving the traffic faster than risk the major pileup day after day, every day....

---------- Post added at 01:35 ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 ----------

the moral is 'just because someone writes a clause into the consumer contract doesnt make it right or proper or lawful', challenge it and see how long it lasts.

perhaps if people started posted here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...xed-broadband/ and asking/posting the right questions, they may get some good advice as to the law and their rights and protections under it, just as they did with the banks charges and forcing the companys to refund the unlawful charges and and perhaps have them reform the consumer contracts for the long term good of all.

---------- Post added at 02:22 ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 ----------

i cant see anyone saying you need to justyfy your choice of broadband package, but seeing as you bring it up, it does seem that you would have to justify it to your mum and dad who are paying for the account your using....

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Good points, but generally in any network, road or data, you will reach a crunch point that occurs for a while whilst that extra lane is built. And during the building time you can expect even more pain. It could easily be argued that this is where the VM network currently is at. The extra lane needs building, but they are currently planning the lane etc.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Right, for the final time.

IT IS A SPEED RESTRICTION! YOU CAN STILL DOWNLOAD AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE!

That probably still won't register with most people, but you have to stop saying its a limited service - it's not!

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

YES IT IS! And whining in massive letters will not change this fact. As you say, the speed is limited, thus the service *is* limited in some way.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

You don't, but your basic arguement seems to be that shaping is great because "I have never been shaped", but this appears to be by virtue of the fact that you have a connection that massively outweights your needs.

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Which brings us back to the use of the word unlimited, when there is quite clearly limits in place :)

Re: how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING
 

Indeed, when flawed assumptions are the only way to backup your point of view you have to wonder how valid that point of view is.

Quite!