Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

What I actually said when Johnson was fined for breaking his own rules was that he either lied or was incompetent enough to not know his own rules which he had broadcast to the nation about.

Johnson should resign over his fixed penalty notice and if Starmer gets one, he should do the same as well. The trust of a nation in its politicians is not a minor matter. It's the bedrock of a functioning democracy.

---------- Post added at 22:19 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------

I'm sure he won't stay on if he is fined. He would become an electoral liability as Johnson has become and the job would cease to be fun. At least if you're PM you get to enjoy power even if you do get difficult TV interviews and even then they're optional.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Everything, beyond this statement is totally irrelevant. But thanks anyway.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

BREAKING: Labour Party staff were drunk at the Starmer curry and beer gathering in Durham, a person familiar with what happened tells Politico’s Playbook

LOTO, Labour and Mary Foy MP do not deny the claim. - Alex Wickham, Politico’s Playbook.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1652092234

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Would you expect LOTO and the Labour Party to respond to such requests on a Sunday? This is not a rhetorical question, I don't know the answer myself.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I thought the labour party under Corbyn was bad but sir beer has brought it to a new low.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Yes, because Sunday morning TV and Sunday newspapers are a big thing, and significant revelations often emerge. There absolutely would be someone in the press office on a Sunday and while it might be Starmer’s day off they absolutely could get a line from him if they wanted to. The choice not to engage is deliberate. You may speculate as to the reasons.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

NEW: Tells you all you need to know.

A YouGov poll says Labour Supporters say Keir Starmer should resign more than Conservatives.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1652093511

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Personally I'd wait until there is a reporting source other than Alex Wickham the godfather of Winfred Johnson.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

But using sources like the left leaning guardian/mirror for attacks on Johnson is completely fine…. Got it.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Nothing do to do with it being a left or right site - it's the direct personal link of the reporter to Starmer's/Labour's political rival.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I don’t care who he is. I believe his inside source.

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

BREAKING: Keir Starmer considers pledging to resign if fined over ‘beergate’
Colleagues urge Labour leader ‘regain moral high ground’ over Boris Johnson. - The Times. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/k...gate-j7flbzv2n

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think he should. Otherwise he won’t have an answer to the millions of questions he’ll get on this. Saying he is awaiting the result of the investigation but will resign if found to have broken the rules is an effective answer.

Plus most Labour supporters will want him to go if he did break the rules.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

But it’s a bit of a change of tact don’t you think, all last week and over the weekend, Starmer was a confident ‘not broken rules’ to the extreme position of potential resignation by Monday, he ducks out of Q&A session (essentially going in to hiding). Further credible revelations of the event being a total piss up event.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Not sure it's a massive change of tact. He'll still say he is confident he didn't break any rules. Just adding if he is found he did break the rules that he would resign.

We'll see if he announces it but it's the easiest way for him to have an answer to this question for the next few weeks.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I just don’t buy he’s feeling confident. A confident man doesn’t run from the press, which is exactly what he’s done by cancelling the Q&A event he planned for later today.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

If he really does say he'll resign if found to have broken the law I don't think it's a sign of confidence so much as giving in to the reality of the situation. Everyone knows the chances of a fine are high but if he is fined it's better that he resigns anyway, so why not announce that now and avoid weeks of awkward questions?

This story isn't going to stop. The Daily Mail has had, I think, 12-13 days on which this has been their headline in the last 14-15 days. The investigation is reportedly going to take another month. Labour could just say 'we don't believe any rules have been broken, if they'll have Starmer will resign and so now let's await the results of the investigation'.

I say if because I have little faith that a politician would do the right thing.

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

Starmer will make a statement at 4pm where he is rumoured to confirm he'll resign if issues a FPN.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It's the sensible thing to do. I genuinely think he will be cleared but no skin off my nose if he's not. But if he's not cleared, he will aim to bring down Johnson too.

---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:03 ----------

That's what false equivalence stories aim to make us think - they're all as bad as each other so I may as well vote for anyone.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think it's more likely he'll get fined or not, at least 50/50, so we could be about to have another leadership election in the Labour Party as well.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I firmly believe he’ll be fined, he’s told that many versions of what’s gone on that it raises strong doubts it was a working session, given what we now know. Boris and No. 10 co got a fine for giving him a cake whilst they claimed they was at work. Organising a piss up and a curry, late on a Friday evening, isn’t working.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

At least we won't have weeks of speculation on what will happen if he does.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It puts the ball firmly back in Johnson's court so we'll just have weeks of speculation about his position instead.

However, as we saw with Dominic Cummings, Durham police's previous approach was not to issue retrospective fines over lockdown breaches. So Starmer could just be ticked off but not fined so would have no reason to resign if he made his resignation dependent upon being fined. See 3.16pm here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I wonder if Kier will offer to stand aside until the police investigation findings are made public? Might be a good move.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

will this have any sway on the outcome of the investigation as Durham has a labour police and crime commissioner.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It makes it a bigger decision for Durham police but then it always was going to be so. Same with when the Met had to decide if they would fine the Prime Minister.

I don't think the Commissioner gets involved in these decisions and it would be a scandal if they did.

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Starmer is giving his speech now.

Says no laws are broken. Was simply eating late. But if the police issue him with a FPN he'll resign.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Least your not naive like me for expecting them to do the right thing

I get confused, was the cake ambush the same one as when they went down the off licence with suitcases to replenish or was that a different one?

And yet they were telling us for weeks to move on, don't we know there's a war on :rofl: what a grubby rag

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

He’s only let a select amount of the media in. Absolute set of planks @ Labour Party.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Different one. I am not sure the suitcases of wine is being investigated.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

After the drubbing he just got from Beth Rigby i don't blame him.

I guess he now wishes he hadn't climbed on that high horse when bojo was investigated

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

BREAKING: Rayner says she’ll go too if she receives a FPN.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

She'll have to step down if she wants to run for leader ;)

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Is there anything in the rules to stop Kier stepping down and standing again?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

His past performance pre this fiasco

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Thanks

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

This was the press pool allowed in for the Statement. No room they told other journos. Not a good look Labour! Same old same old!

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1652110578

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think he is a coward for not drinking a can of 1664 during the speech.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

He's got 2 glasses of water, must have a very dry throat ;)

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Probably been out on a session. That's why he couldn't be contacted yesterday.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

How’s everyone’s Monday going?

I know of a few police officers in Durham now have the future of British Politics in the palm of their hands. :D

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Starmer has planned it that way ,he's saying the fate of the labour party/ future prime minister is in the forces hands,he's a devious bent git.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

What if the Durham Police issue the fine because it forces Johnson’s hand, Keir is just collateral damage?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Bojo won't resign, he's paid the fine and apologised to parliament and the people, it was starmer who weaponised a slice of cake to make political gain.
But now starmer is trying to influence the police by releasing this statement.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It could go either way with this. The statement could be argued to make it less likely they issue the fine because they don't want to be seen to take down the LOTO or more likely because they don't want to have let that influence the decision. And so on.

As with the Met Police these people aren't thick. They know the consequences. I think the level of attention this case is getting makes it more likely rather than less IMO. After all, as with the Met Police and No 10, this case wouldn't have been taken if those accused were ordinary people.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Absolutely agree that he should resign if there is a fine. Credit to Rayner for saying she will do this too, Sunak could learn from her in this respect.

Two points on your other comments:

• Everyone seems to take as gospel there were 30 people attending who all had several beers and a curry for £200. These two figures don't reconcile.
• You were allowed to work together in the same room then and in fact you could even go out for a working meal for 30 people back in Autum 2020
  https://www.squaremeal.co.uk/restaur...486484ec2675be

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Some people could have shared one single potion of Indian food, some portions can be that large, they may have got a discount, you can’t really measure people there to a £200 curry bill.

Your last point is wrong. Mixing in doors, sharing of food, at the time of Starmers curry & piss up event, wasn’t allowed.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Didn't it change to 15 people?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It probably did, problem is the accounts of it have changed so many times. :spin:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The only reason Sir Kier should resign is because he went on and on at the Prime Minister to do so just for being investigated by the police! Guilty before the evidence was even tested!

A fine for a breach of the lockdown rules is nothing. If it was an offence carrying a prison sentence, that would be different.

Yes, some people are indeed upset because they may have lost loved ones during the pandemic, and that's understandable, but associating the party allegations with their cicumstances is grossly over-egging the pot. The rules were on place to protect them and they would have been in place no matter what was going on at no 10.

People have become very picky in recent years and its time that we started debating the real problems we face in this country and the rest of the world. This self-righteous nonsense needs to cease. We nesd to get a collective grip.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

He has been very crafty in tying his resignation to a fine being issued. Durham police don't do retrospective fines as Cummings found out.
Starmer will be found guilty and not fined. He has been asked repeatedly whether he would resign under these circumstances and has refused to answer.

He is some piece of work that's for sure.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Genuinely interested to know, where on the scale of law breaking do you feel being picky stops and real concern should begin? Are you suggesting that every law when broken that results in punishments below your bar should be repealed? Quite a strange stance from someone who seems staunchly behind the party that prides themselves as the party of law and order don't you think?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

100%, make the media work for you.

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

To influence a police investigation, yes it is.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I read in The Times it was 15 people. This works out at £13 a person which makes more sense.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

So the people who made the rules and told dying people their loved ones could not visit them at their death beds did this, while those people were dying. 15 parties in total. Some with Karaoke machines, swing breaking, official photographers and suitcases of booze:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSORnHUW...jpg&name=small

Yes, just as bad as a constituency office curry ...

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Bless.......

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It was a planned piss up and curry night.

I don’t think anyone has said here Boris isn’t still in political jeopardy, but surely even you can’t surmise that the amount of lying from Labour is just as bad as the Tory party lying here?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The Tories lied about multiple parties and did so to Parliament on a couple of occasions. Not sure why it's different, there was just more of it.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Lying to parliament hasn’t been proven it’s being investigated by that committee they all voted for few weeks back.

It’s immaterial because rule breaking is rule breaking. Starmer stood on his moral soap box, used emotional stories about family members not being able to see dying loved ones when he himself had organised a curry and piss up night and claimed he was working, when he wasn’t.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Well this has not been proven either yet, it's being investigated by the police. Maybe Starmer has evidence they were working whilst eating? Who knows.

As I said he should resign if fined and now it turns out he will.

As you said rule-breaking is rule-breaking and if Starmer goes for one incident then so should Johnson. Especially so if Johnson gets fined multiple times for multiple parties.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I appreciate that this is a sincerely-held belief of yours, Mick.

However, whilst I am no Starmer fan, everything I’ve seen about that period indicates there was an exemption for working meals.

For example:
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/...us-b79350.html

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...rules-23909439

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

TBH I don't care as much now he said he'll resign.

The worst-case scenario was Starmer is fined and then both Johnson and him pretend none of it happened and you have two lying leaders who broke laws they voted for debating each other every week. At least now there will only be one.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

No but your a bloody good comedian :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I notice that while Twitter goes in to meltdown with special mentions for Dan Wooton of GB News, Dan Hodges of the Mail on Sunday and Harry Cole of The Sun, senior conservatives are very quiet on all of this, even Nadine Dorries.

Either they have a pretty good idea of the outcome, are worried how this might affect Boris Johnson, or are letting their client journalists whip up the fury while keeping their hands clean. I suspect a little of each

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The Times has already reported that Senior Conservatives have been trying to die down talk of resignation and got a bit angry when some Tory came close to suggesting it the other day.

The ideal for the Tories is Starmer is fined and stays. Him resigning probably won't cause Johnson to resign but still looks bad and the next Labour Leader has a clean slate to attack especially if it happens before the Sue Grey report arrives.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

There isn't any chance of anyone in Europe taking the UK seriously again. We're an irrelevance.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The Mail seems to be tying itself up in contradictions! Monday it crticises Starmer for not clearing the air, Tuesday it criticises him for clearing the air!

Of course, all this comes on top of its previous headline that criticised the opening of a police investigation into the No 10 parties!


No respect to their readers' intelligence.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1652179532

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I like Vienna.

And yeah it's typical people don't know who the opposition is in most countries I would say. I doubt many people in England could name the most senior member of the opposition in France, Germany, Italy e.t.c.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I think you're right.

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------

In terms of Europe and Ukraine we're centre stage and not an irrelevance.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Priceless ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSUloBEX...jpg&name=small

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Did he have 30 pissed up law breakers with him? your post is a little short of info.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

That must be a reference to Johnson as there were only 15 people involved at curry gate.

Congratulations on stepping up and criticising Johnson, I thought your adoration of him knew no limits. My bad. :angel:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Ah, so you were there then? Tell all .. does the 30 include his wife *and* the official photographer? :p:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Police are facing renewed pressure to investigate the so-called 'Beergate' event
Keir Starmer admitted sharing a lockdown curry with up to 30 Labour officials
Sadiq Khan suggested 'equivalence' with Boris Johnson's birthday gathering

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-birthday.html

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

It was down to 15 people by yesterday.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/stat...60902552784896

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

The punishment is a fine - not the loss of your livelihood. As I said, a sense of proportion is required.

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

Give us a break, please! If and when he’s found wanting you can criticise. Like for Sir Kier, we are awaiting a verdict.

---------- Post added at 17:27 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

He didn’t lie if he thought it was true.

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------

Yes, as I said many moons ago, pretty well everyone was breaking the rules in some way or other, but kidding themselves that they weren’t. This whole ridiculous debate is so trivial, it’s hard to take any of it seriously.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

tbf, given his long history of telling porkies, he could have been lying about thinking what he said was true…

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

True, but you couldn’t prove it!

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Dan Hodges has gone full "Wibble!"…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1652207477

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Just how deep does this go!?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

To be fair, I think what's required are politicians that set an example and face the consequences of their actions. I'm disappointed Kier at the very least didn't step aside pending the outcome of the police investigation particularly as he was demanding Borris should resign. I'm not however disappointed with Borris as I think we all know he's no better than a snake oil salesman and a particularly bad one at that.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

He's always been a bit like that, I think.

There's a difference between changing jobs and dying in shady circumstances like a Russian oligarch.

Meanwhile, two interesting points have come to light over the video of Starmer:

1. The entrance to the Miner's hall is 100 yards past the front gates, so video taker Ivo Delingpole was not just passing by a window as claimed.
https://twitter.com/cirian75/status/1523740121895702528

2. It was taken by Ivo Delingpole, the son of Breitbart, Telegraph and Spectator writer James Delingpole. When the video of circulated last April, he tweeted about it without mentioning that his son had filmed it.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-sink-starmer

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Wonder why you didn't point this possibly out to to posters who said that Starmer lied? Do you think Starmer is more honest than Johnson?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

we all owe him our thanks for uncovering this illegal booze up that sir beer tried to cover up.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Please just make it stop now. Nobody cares anymore. I don’t care if Johnson stays or goes. I don’t care if Starmer stays or goes.

Can we please just concentrate on getting the economy back on track, tackling inflation and interest rates and looking after the vulnerable.

You know, like important stuff.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

These don't get much traction on forums like this because it's a longer-term problem with few developments a day. We can keep complaining about it but the story doesn't move on so weeks can go back with everyone discussing how bad inflation/cost of living is.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Tell that utter nonsense to Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, who rates the UK quite highly, how much is the corrupt EU still paying to Russia for its gas?

Go look it up. :zzz:

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

BREAKING: Beergate sees Labour poll lead plummet to 1 point lead.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1652219231

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Worked, then…

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I thought I had, actually! Both were most probably of the view that they were not breaking the rules. But Starmer lied about Legs Rayner not being present, he said it was a ‘spontaneous’ decision to have a curry when in fact it had been pre-planned and he told us that food was not available at his hotel.

There may be more to come out about Boris, of course, but for now we only know for certain that he has received a fine for receiving a cake between meetings.

Starmer was not between meetings - it was a party after work.

I know who I think is more guilty - at least so far.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

"Legs Rayner"

Thank you, Benny Hill…

Note you never say "multiple adulterer serial liar Johnson*"

*difference being all those are true, rather than being made up by the Daily Mail…

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

If Boris resigns or is pushed Labour will be clamouring for a general election (as opposition tends to when leader of ruling party changes) so, in one sense, they don't mind if Keir is fined and resigns and "forces" a change in PM.


I agree with Pierre that the whole things is media fodder, it generates lots of interest and comment but really is inconsequential compared to other matters that all our politicians should be focusing on.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I don't think Johnson would be forced into resigning, they'll just accept how it looks.

Labour won't mind because they get a clean slate for the new guy/gal. Starmer has done the hard work in terms of addressing 2019. Corbyn and his allies have been pushed out to the fringes of the party again, the rules have been changed to make it harder for a fringe candidate to win the leadership and a lot of the Momentum lot have left the party.

Starmer has earned enemies internally for this though and still has a bit of baggage from the Corbyn years. Plus although he isn't hated he is pretty bland so it's not a huge loss for them to put another face on the party.

Better that than having a fined Starmer stay in place after he called on Johnson to resign for getting a fine.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Once Starmer is binned will jezza get the labour whip back?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

No.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

I wonder what Gove put on his cornflakes before his BBC Breakfast interview?

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

That white stuff called sugar.

Hilarious but a distraction - the government did promise an announcement to help with the cost of living in the next few weeks, and seems to be back pedalling.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Yes. 'Sugar'.

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

:D:D:D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1652270800

Re: Partygate & Beergate discussion
 

Consistently so. :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1652272549