Re: The energy crisis
 

so what do you actually get?

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/w...-prescription/

Re: The energy crisis
 

The cynical in me sees that system as ripe for abuse. :erm:

Re: The energy crisis
 

So nice to" know" someone my electric bill is bailing out:shocked:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Two sticks and a piece of coal

Re: The energy crisis
 

The private gas companies were nationalised in the 1940's under the Atlee Government until the Thatcher Government privatised British Gas in the 1990's and there is now growing calls for renationalisation again.

Just been listening to an interesting programme;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001j3lj

What happens when a Government nationalises a company? Will I get the FTSE valuation of my shares on the date of nationalisation, or what the Government decides to pay it's owners?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Think Railtrack and you might get a rough idea.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Just been switched to octopus can't access my Bulb account now and need to create an octopus account, hoping everything is as it was with my £300+ credit.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I've always found Octopus pretty helpful and easy to contact if anything goes wrong although admittedly I haven't needed to speak to them for several years.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Will create an account after work, it's annoying I can't see my old balance though to compare.

Edit

Just had to change my password as requested in the email, I have a balance of £309.38 which I believe to be correct as long as it is a Credit!

No account Bulb history yet, I read somewhere that will be updated later.

Edit

My payment history is available from the app, not sure about Bulb statements.

---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

So I submitted my meter readings now my account balance has changed to £273.37 down from £309.38 that it gave me 15mins ago and I know I was just over £300 on bulb.

Edit again!

So submitting the meter readings has taken -£4.38 off for Gas and -£31.63 off for Electricity, I've never had this happen after submitting a meter reading with Bulb or anyone else, anyone else seeing this issue or is it normal?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1676473871

Re: The energy crisis
 

It is normal. Calculations are instant. Sometimes the gas shows as pending till new values are issued. Bills are issued as soon as both calculations are made so you will get one soon

Re: The energy crisis
 

But the payment will still be taken on my DD date based on whatever meter reading I pay before that?

Pretty confused over this.

And what's this spinning thingy game, is there a catch if I win something?

Re: The energy crisis
 

My Bulb account is still active.
Although I'm no longer with them, they still need to do my final bill.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Don't worry you'll never win anything on the 'spinning thingy game' ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

yes
if you look Octopus will allow you to set your own DD date and amount but it should all match up with what it was before

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

you never know your luck hahaha

Re: The energy crisis
 

I've been with Octopus for 3 years and have done the spinning thingy every month and have never won.

Don't forget to spin the wheel for both gas and electricy accounts and get your consolation prize of silly errr I mean interesting QI titbits. :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

They said I could spin it again if I got a smart meter.......it's a big no from me! Lol

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Thx.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I was going to say it be hard as its nigh impossible to get a GP appointment, but what you quoted sounds like they going to reach out.

--

Regarding Octopus tracker, Seems Octopus are a little uncomfortable with the flood of interest in the tariff or they having to manually change people over, is now a 6 month waiting list, with 50 been processed a day.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My Bulb statements are now available on my Octopus account.

Re: The energy crisis
 

After almost 8 months in our new house, Scottish Power’s new build team have finally woken up and opened us an account. I’m about to log in for the first time and see what we owe them. And as soon as I’ve paid it I’m transferring us to Octopus. No way am I staying with a company with customer service this awful.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You will be well set with Octopus. I called CS the other week and I could understand who answered and they were very helpful. If the cap rises in April I will jump on the tracker too

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

By the time it is all in place it will be warm again

well that sucks and blows my plans. They are now saying you have to have a Smart Meter too which you did not have to before. Damn procrastinating. i was gonna call and switch Monday before the site changed

Re: The energy crisis
 

They certainly couldn’t be worse. Scottish Power actively works to keep you off the phone lines, actively tries to prevent you talking to a human via web chat (they give you generic bot-generated answers and then close the chat - don’t even give you a chance to follow up) and when you do finally find your way in to the human-monitored section of the web chat you wait 15 minutes for someone offshore to read your issue and tell you they can’t help. Scottish Power is utterly dreadful.

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ----------

Does anyone know how Octopus manages solar panel payments? I thought there was a tariff with automatic export readings taken from a smart meter but they haven’t asked me about my panels during sign-up.

Re: The energy crisis
 

they posted this on Twitter this morning

https://octopus.energy/smart/flux/

---------- Post added at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 ----------

They also have this

https://octopus.energy/outgoing/

Re: The energy crisis
 

Thanks … I did eventually find the details for Outgoing though they don’t make it at all obvious during sign up that this is even an option. Not great for new build buyers who haven’t made a conscious decision to install solar panels and may not know what they need to do in order to benefit from them.

Anyway, I have signed up, and now I’m going through the rigmarole of the meters not being on the national database. No doubt this is something to do with the utter incompetence of Scottish Power, who with any luck I will be free of in a week’s time. I have sent photos of the meters to Octopus. Once the account is active I will action the switch to the Octopus Outgoing tariff and finally start getting paid for what I’m generating. Or at least, I’ll be ready to start getting paid once I have excess … at this time of year we have discovered it is best to time appliances like the dishwasher to operate from late morning to early afternoon and just use the solar power ourselves.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Glad you are sorted

Re: The energy crisis
 

Does this mean that you will have lost out on any solar power payments up until now? If so, thst really isn't fair at all.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Most suppliers require you to manually claim for power generated on a quarterly basis - even if you have a SMETS2 standard smart meter which is entirely capable of automatically reporting export KWh to the supplier, at the same time as it reports import kWh (import being the electricity you’re actually buying from the grid to run your home).

Octopus is one of the few - perhaps the only - supplier that offers a tariff which will read both import and export values from your meter and pay you for the export amount, effectively buying it from you.

I could possibly get readings in to Scottish Power for what we generated over the past 8 months; it is more than 600kWh which at the rate Octopus pays would be worth around £90. However, I don’t have a starting reading for the meter so I can’t say precisely how much of that is actually ours (I’m guessing probably about 75% of it is, but can’t be sure). Also my panels aren’t registered with Scottish Power and their customer service is truly, truly awful to deal with.

Sadly I’m inclined to put it down to experience (the experience being never ever deal with Scottish Power ever again). As soon as my Octopus account is live I’ll arrange it with them and have done with it.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I know what you mean, sometimes life is too short to bother with these things (and I'm sure they know this). It's a shame that you stand to lose approximately £67.50 though if you owed them £67.50 you can be sure they'd be chasing you for it!

Re: The energy crisis
 

For your entertainment, here is the transcript of my web chat with Scottish Power this morning.

:banghead:

I have since paid the outstanding amount (at the first opportunity, obviously, as they never allowed us to have an actual account with them before today) and started the process of switching to Octopus.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Also, has anyone here recently switched to Octopus and fancies sharing a referral code with me? It looks like we both get money off if so?

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think they need to click through the link to join so you need someone intending to join. Both get £50 iirc . You could have been referred too but if you already joined you missed the chance

Re: The energy crisis
 

Possibly not - I just checked my account and there’s a section that says:

‘Apply a referral’ is a hyperlink. Worth a go, on the off chance someone has a code anyway.

---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------

… it seems to have worked anyway. Looks like we’re both getting £50 :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1676560005

Re: The energy crisis
 

Awesome cheers Chris

Re: The energy crisis
 

And thank you also :)

Re: The energy crisis
 

I was tempted but a lot of forums forbid shoving codes in peoples faces so didnt give you one, sad I missed the chance now. :(

Not a single family member is interested in moving so I havent managed to get a single £50.

Re: The energy crisis
 

M&S Energy to close and switch customers to Octopus Energy

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...xjEWVJAHlhe1LI

Re: The energy crisis
 

I wonder how close to 6th place Octopus are now

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1676561887

apparently with the Bulb take over they are 3rd already

Re: The energy crisis
 

Thanks for sharing. Quite impressive as they were a start-up and not formed from the original power companies as British Gas, E.on, EDF and Scottish Power all were.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They, and Bulb, successfully identified a gap in the market for customers wanting to buy renewable energy and get straightforward customer service while they were at it. Bulb, sadly, was found wanting on the wholesale energy buying side of its business. Its customer base is a good fit for Octopus, which offers similar green credentials, albeit with a slightly more complex tariff structure (Bulb’s was extremely straightforward - one price was it). While some Bulb customers may have been attracted by its simple pricing I suspect most won’t be in a hurry to leave just because Octopus offers a few additional options.

I was with Bulb for several years prior to my house move and was very happy with them. I was gutted for them when they went under. By the end of next week I will be with Octopus. Again, the reason for my move is the reputation for straightforward customer service, green energy and now, thanks to the solar panels on my new house, Octopus’s willingness to operate a tariff that will automatically pay me back for what I generate. Simple customer focused things like this can create a successful business over time, as their new status as 3rd largest supplier in the UK shows.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My experience of Bulb has been poor on the customer service side, hence why I moved to British Gas the other week.
Under normal circumstances I would not have considered BG as they were always more expensive, but with the current cap, thats a non issue.
I expect once (if ?) pricing returns to some sort of normality, I may have to move again (quite possibly to Octopus).

Re: The energy crisis
 

If she's so concerned about the GDPR, then why has she told you that a customer,whose account you're not linked to, is in substantial arrears? AIUI the fact that you are married to this customer is neither here nor there!

I ended up with E.on after my supplier went bust- they are as bad as Scottish Power.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not sure how BG still has such a strong customer base, I guess down to brand trust thing for millions.

My sister who works for Centrica even says she thinks they bad but ironically is moving back because finally the staff 25% discount actually now takes it below other providers. I thought I would maybe get a £50 octopus referral from her but its hard to argue with a flat 25% discount right now, probably best deal for her.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Now that I've moved from Bulb to Octopus I've been comparing my variable rate unit rates between my last Bulb Bill and what Octopus will charge me on 1st March.

Octopus is more expensive now than what my last Bulb Bill says, but I think there was a price rise in the last month or so can anyone tell me what the old Octopus unit rates and SC was for the period through January 1st to February 1st please?

1st Feb Bulb Bill
Electricity
Unit Rate 33.46p/kWh
Standing Charge 37.08p/day

Octopus current variable rate
Electricity
Unit Rate 35.13p/kWh
Standing Charge 38.94p/day

1st Feb Bulb Bill
Gas
Unit Rate 9.82/kWh
Standing Charge 27.13p/day

Octopus current variable rate
Gas
Unit Rate 10.31/kWh
Standing Charge 28.48p/day

Re: The energy crisis
 

areas have different rates. my leccy for example is 33.2p on octopus in my area

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yer but did we not all get a unit rate and standing charge increase between my last Bulb Bill and now as I'm trying to find out what the Octopus rate was back then as I'm sure they were cheaper than Bulb?

Re: The energy crisis
 

My unit rates went down in Jan. I am surprised Bulb were cheaper though. Do all the figures include vat

Re: The energy crisis
 

What were your unit rates for January that's the figure I want to compare against as I thought Octopus was cheaper?

VAT goes on after if I've read this right.

29 December 202248556.0 Customer Read

28 January 2023 48703.0 Customer Read
1 February 2023 48731.5 Estimate
Energy 14.7 kWh @ 33.3870 p/kWh £ 4.91
Energy(1) 160.8 kWh @ 33.4610
p/kWh
£ 53.81
Standing charge 34 days @ 37.0820 p/day £ 12.61
Cost of electricity used £ 71.33
VAT @ 5% £ 3.57
Total electricity costs for this bill £ 74.90

Re: The energy crisis
 

octopus show rates in vat on the account page

34.something to 33.2p

Re: The energy crisis
 

So the 35.13p/kWh I see on the variable rate tab on the Octopus app includes 5% vat?

Octopus sure know how to confuse people they originally confused me after I submitted meter readings as my available credit got reduced and to me that makes no sense.

Re: The energy crisis
 

on the main page the tariff info on mine says all prices inc vat

Re: The energy crisis
 

Did not have that on the mobile app but see it now from the web browser.

I still can't find what the old unit rates were for Dec/Jan to see if they have increased, but as long as it's not more than Bulb then I'm happy.

Re: The energy crisis
 

After logging in from a web browser Bulb Customers are presented with this which helps, also tells me from 25th Feb i'll be paying £67 a month(same as my old Bulb DD) which will be taken on the 1st, so time to submit my readings

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1677072038

Re: The energy crisis
 

I did something stupid with my meter key and had to phone eon, where I moaned about having one and the guy said it was cheaper than the dd tariffs available, he read out unit rates etc but I wasn't really listening tbh, I was angry at myself and switched off after ranting, still doesn't seem right to me though

Re: The energy crisis
 

What's a meter key.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Pre pay thing used to top up, often referred to as a key

Re: The energy crisis
 

If [or when ?] Labour get into power, you'll have a whole new energy crisis to deal with.

One of Starmer's 'five missions' is "removing fossil fuels from all of Britain's electricity generation by 2030".

This despite the fact that almost 42% of current generation is from Gas, and 2.5% from Coal.

What does he think is going to generate all this electricity in [just under] 7 years time ?
(when of course, we'll likely need even more to than we produce now, to charge up all these electric cars).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yeah l remember having one in our previous abode.

Now we top up through our mobile.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I believe that's the Conservatives' promise too. I'm sceptical of both of them. Happy to be proved wrong.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You believe wrong, theirs is 2035.

(I dont think thats entirely realistic either, but its more realistic than 2030).

Re: The energy crisis
 

We will hopefully have one more nuclear plant up by then, but yeah 2030 seems too ambitious, probably election campaign nonsense, I think its doable by 2050 if we get our act together on tidal power and more nuclear power. Increasing wind and solar capacity combined with battery storage will help as well, currently I think we dont store much if any of the generated wind power meaning we have periods of excess where people like me get paid to use electric, and periods of shortage when there isnt enough wind.

Re: The energy crisis
 

getting rid of gas is just madness.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well, we’ll get about 3.5 GW from Hinckley Point C when it opens (should be 2028) but we’d need 8 of those to replace all the gas. Plus we’re going to lose 7 old nuclear reactors at the same time HPC opens. So it’s swings and roundabouts really.

There are signs of sanity from the Labour front bench in Scotland, where the SNP is presently using its planning powers to forestall any talk of new nuclear north of the border, even though just a couple of nuclear plants would take care of Scotland’s entire base load requirement with plenty to spare. Labour now says it is favourable to new nuclear in Scotland.

The problem with nuclear as designed and deployed in the UK in recent decades is, first, it takes far too long to design and build, and second, it costs an absolute smegging fortune to do. But as it’s the most carbon efficient means of providing reliable base load we really need to find a way to do it. Rolls Royce’s new Small Modular Reactor is one possible way forwards. They’re small so should be easier and cheaper to build. And there are multiple sites in the UK with decommissioned reactors on them already so possibly easier to get done without too much local opposition.

SMRs are a lot smaller - around 470MW as opposed to 3GW or more for the traditionally-sized stations the government has been trying to get built for the last 20 years. But in terms of cost per megawatt, they should produce twice as much electricity per £1 of construction cost as their larger alternatives.

However, the first Rolls Royce SMR will not be built before 2029, so in answer to your question, no, there is absolutely not a snowball’s chance in hell of Labour or anyone else getting gas entirely out of our energy mix in the next 7 years.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's sensible if we replace it with something else cleaner but you can't just take it out of the equation otherwise. That's just fantasy politics.

Re: The energy crisis
 

"Labour says it will work with business to more than quadruple offshore wind power, triple solar, and double onshore wind by the end of this decade, while backing nuclear, hydrogen, and tidal power."

Re: The energy crisis
 

Gas generates 25,000 gigawatt hours as of right now. Each of the 20 plants in the UK is producing an average of 1.25 gigawatts - fractionally more than you need to power a Delorean.

Anyone fancy calculating exactly how many wind farms and solar farms we would need within the next 7 years, given that there’s just no way we’re going to get any new nuclear within that time apart from Hinckley Point, delivering a useful but fractional contribution of 3.6 GWH?

Re: The energy crisis
 

The actual energy price cap has been reduced from £4,279 in January £3,280 in April.
However, this isnt going to help anyone as the Govt cap is going up from £2,500 to £3,000.
That presumably just means they'll be paying less subsidy to the energy complanies for the difference.
It does seem like it makes a case for keeping the govt cap at £2,500, but that seems unlikely with the current lot in charge.

Re: The energy crisis
 

There is a budget 15th March so they could announce it then. They have been under pressure to do so from opposition and public opinion ie the likes of Martin Lewis

Re: The energy crisis
 

Even worse the cap was effectively £2100 with the £400 credit, so % wise it's quite a large bump.

The amount of pressure now compared to last summer, is very low, without the political pressure I agree with you that any shift of policy is unlikely.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Someone, sometime will have to pay for any help given and once again it will be the middle income earners who also are most likely to have invested in insulation and energy efficient devices and are likely to have more energy efficient behaviours who will catch it in the neck. Certainly we should help the vulnerable but people have to realise that the more help given the higher taxes will have to be to pay it back.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think all the parties want to switch away from fossil fuels & use greener alternatives instead to create energy. This is to stop greenhouse gases.

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:35 ----------

They seem unrealistic as it's all about doing a lot in a relatively short amount of time. The situation is now believed to be so serious that action has to taken quickly, so let's hope it can be achieved.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think Octopus are losing the plot.

I got an email today saying they have "accepted" the meter readings for my transfer to them.

Great .... except I havent requested any transfer to them.
Even better, they sent this message to my ancient IRESA email address.
They went out of business almost 5 years ago.

Best part is I went to their [Octopus] site, requested a password reset on that old address, and it worked !

I have no idea WTF are they doing ..........

Re: The energy crisis
 

On the site or app it should list your meters ID numbers do they match your current meters?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Were you with Bulb? If so, maybe they've sent you - and probably thousands of others - the wrong message.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I was (I left them 3 weeks ago).
However, as I said, the email address they used is not my Bulb account address, its a very old IRESA address.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Guessing they got an out dated bulb database, maybe that email address was given as part of a previous WHD information? As the providers do work with the DWP for WHD.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Uh huh…. Not sure where you got that from, however

https://heycar.co.uk/blog/electric-c...nd-projections

Also, The vast majority (circa 95%) of people that are EV owners charge solely at home

Most EV sat nav now comes with route planning inc charge stops which also includes real time availability of chargers , there’s also 3rd part apps such as zapmap & Chargemap

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

To add, I’m not proposing that EV’s in their current form work for everyone BUT in time things will improve making ownership acceptable to the masses.

In my car I can go from 5% to 80% charge in 21 minutes on the fastest chargers, which I generally only need to use if I’m driving somewhere like Maidenhead. Put the car in charge, nip to the loo, grab a coffee and a cigarette and I’m pretty much good to go.

Never had a problem with a charger being out of order or unavailable

Re: The energy crisis
 

Atm ....

The vast majority of cars dont need them, that will change.

Re: The energy crisis
 

What worries me about an EV battery is the cost of replacement in an accident if the battery is damaged, something between 6k-10k I've heard mentioned, this could mean alot of cars get written off by the insurance companies.

Re: The energy crisis
 

That's fair, the infrastructure has to be scaled to keep up with as demand increases. At the moment we're way behind certain other countries such as the the Netherlands.

Tesla have already opened their supercharging network to Audi, now there are plans to open it further by the use of a 'magic connector'

Re: The energy crisis
 

So I was moved over to Octopus from Bulb, no issues just had my £67 monthly DD taken from my bank(still called Bulb on the DD though) and also been debited the £67 for the energy support scheme.

No actual bill yet for the energy used.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Again, that's fair comment, however, insurance companies seem to be writing of more and more petrol/diesel cars when they suffer from less and less damage.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My friend whom has had no end of problems with charging his car ,has gone back to petrol saying he will change back again once many more points are available. Looked for points to charge next time I go to see friends , totally hopeless , can't see it changing anytime soon , route:monkey:s to quite to warrant them , perhaps a modern pony express model would work !!!!!:D

Re: The energy crisis
 

There’s always going to be cases such as that, but they’re not the norm infrastructure has to be improved in certain areas of the country and as EV’s continue to increase share it will, the tipping point will come

Re: The energy crisis
 

Still don't think most folks realise their bills are going to shoot up again in April. Warmer weather and lower wholesale energy prices, they might of thought different.

Re: The energy crisis
 

When do monthly bills drop at Octopus, my DD was taken a few days ago but still no bill?

Re: The energy crisis
 

What date in the month is the government subsidy credited to your electricity bill?

I have a bill pending but I don't want to fully pay it if there's going to be a credit to the account shortly after. I'd rather that money stayed in my pocket.:D

Re: The energy crisis
 

They credited on 28th Feb £67 to Octopus.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I am on a smart meter and my DD comes out on the first of every month with a bill being generated a week later on the 7th of each month.


You can edit the amount and date of your DD payments which may alter the date your bill is produced but I haven't needed to alter the dates so I'm not sure what would actually happen.

Re: The energy crisis
 

my DD is also on the 1st so I'll get my bill the same as you I guess.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Just checked my Octopus Balence History and the credits have been added to my account one either the the last or first day of the month. So Februrary's was on the 28th the same as Snoopz

Re: The energy crisis
 

Thanks for looking Jo and SnoopZ. I'll log into the supplier and see if the credit is there.

No point in giving them more money than I need to.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Have you tried their android app it's quicker?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Looks like the the Govt have realised the proverbial will hit the fan in April, and keep subsidising bills for a few more months anyway
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64830701
Won't cost them as much any longer as wholesale prices have gone down.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Indeed, I was going to post the same link.

They are probably hoping the actual cap will come down again in July.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Martin Lewis posted about it earlier. He says suppliers are expecting it too also but it is not definite yet. If things continue the next price cap July should be lower anyway. Global warming actually helping

Re: The energy crisis
 

It felt inevitable, when a consumer champion like Martin goes public and then gets 100+ entities to back him, it would have been too much political damage to ignore him, social media has loads clipping his video explaining how the government will be saving money from the ofgem cap going down, so word was spreading.

My current gas tracker deal and agile deal run out in the summer, so will be interesting where things are then.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Two coal stations had to be fired up today, a third was put on standby.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64879044

Re: The energy crisis
 

Thing is, like anything of this type, is costs more, wastes more fuel, and puts more into the atmosphere firing these up and then shutting them down, rather than just keeping them running.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Still not received my monthly usage bill from Octopus so dropped them an email.

Edit - their reply which still doesn't help me as I've submitted atleast 2 meter readings in the last month and all its done is said how much gas and electric used in £s and I still don't have a breakdown of units used etc, is this normal?

My last Meter reading was Feb 22nd so I guess I should take another reading on March 22nd to get the amount used and do the maths for the units used myself from month to month?