Re: Coronavirus
 

No point to them if they can't be staffed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

More areas to enter Tier 4 from Boxing Day and two cases of another new strain of COVID-19, linked to South Africa, have been identified in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55421730

Re: Coronavirus
 

The latest South African strain of Covid doesn't sound good for the recently returned England cricket team....

Re: Coronavirus
 

We've had the china flue the Essex flue now the SA flue what's next:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I thought the Essex virus was something else.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah the one that makes your lips are arse swell right up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: NHS COVID-19 official figures over last 24 hours show 39,237 positive cases, the highest ever recorded and 744 people have sadly died.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We had our team 2020 close out call today and, as it is 'the season to be jolly', we had to reflect on the non-work positives personally of the pandemic.

Here are mine;

• We spent a lot more time in the garden early summer as there was nowhere else to go
• Getting to know our neighbours
• Exercising more (thanks Joe Wicks)
• I really upped my cooking game this year. Even now I am curing some salt beef and getting ready to sous vide some duck breasts in chinese spices
• Cheap steaks in the supermarket due to restaurants being closed
• Really concentrating on supporting small businesses when they were open (we are now good friends with our local microbrewery)
• Wearing masks on a cold day is great!
• Saving a hell of a lot of money from not going out

What are your upsides?

Our household is lucky as we could work from home (never been busier to be honest) and the kids could go to school when they wanted as were are officially 'essential'. We are a lot better off than many to be honest

Re: Coronavirus
 

Other latest Covid Stats: Nearly 21,000 people are now in hospitals across UK, up nearly 3,000 since yesterday, with Covid-19. (Almost at same of peak of first wave).

The today’s total 744 death toll is the highest since 29th April. The second wave is on course to be worst than the first.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My son is isolating because his partner tested positive neither of them have left the house since, they had the shopping delivered and no one was allowed into or out of the house, earlier they ordered a takeaway and told the delivery chap to put it in the front garden, every thing was fine until 10 min later when there was a knock on the door, it was the police, someone had reported a covid breach, they asked is there a Garry here my son replied we don't know a Garry, the police said he just walked in here with some bags, my son replied we just had a takeaway delivered this is a bit malicious isn't it, the police just turned around and left.

And this is the country we now live in one where nosey curtain twitcher's report you for eating fish and chips.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Snitchy neighbours?

Re: Coronavirus
 

would seem so.
the police said it was an anonymous report.
we still don't know who Garry is though.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's concerning considering those April numbers are some weeks after the lockdown came in. We're only now seeing some areas having an equivalent lockdown.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's a good response time by the police.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's on a par with a motoring offence, if it was a burglary they wouldn't turn up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just a pity they ain't so quick with shoplifters.:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

They don’t have to be - shops are heavy... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Garry was probably still wearing his tag when delivering. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Next time I get burgled I’m going to report it as a Covid violation, people from multiple households were at my address. Then I’ll explain what happened when they arrive.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's pretty common. ;)

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------


That deserves a :D

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------


That too..:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The beds are at over 90% capacity, and they don’t have staffing levels to cover this, with staff isolating or off sick.

Also, it’s not distributed evenly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55362681

The other challenge is that COVID patients often need Critical Care beds, and there are less than 6000 in the U.K., of which 2000 are neo-natal or paediatric.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publica...e-services-nhs

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's one thing to have general hospital beds, but beds that can be isolated, with monitoring equipment, and possibly needing ventilators is quite another.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nothing - they normally run at 85-90% capacity; there have been lots of programmes on TV about how operations (in ‘normal’ times) are delayed due to lack of beds, so COVID has amplified this.

It’s important to remember not all beds/wards/staff are suitable for all patients - a day ward won’t have the facilities to deal with Critical Care or Post-op recovery; it’s like expecting a car garage to be able to deal with HGV - different equipment and staff skills.

For instance, in February this year (pre-COVID), over 80% of the England’s ICU beds were occupied (we only have just over 4000)

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistic...2020-auY71.pdf

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure you didn't mean it in a gloating way, but that's rather like saying the family next door perished in a house fire, but on the upside we were able to turn the heating off to save money and we were as warm as toast!!!

---------- Post added at 02:25 ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 ----------

In my experience it's rare for the police to acknowledge, let alone apologise, for any mistakes they make. Despite this arrogant rudeness, they go on to expect the public to help them with future incidents.

---------- Post added at 02:34 ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 ----------

On breakfast TV a doctor explained that having the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching the coronavirus, but if you do, it should mean that you don't get any serious symptoms from it. It might also mean that a vaccinated person can still pass it on, so it's still important to wear masks, socially distance, ventilate in open spaces and adhere to regular hand washing.

They need to make this clear to people as they are vaccinated so that infections aren't transmitted because people believe that the vaccine itself made them become invincible.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Richard, only you could have read it that way.

Congratulations, once more you have lived up (down) to your first name contraction... :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd like you to read this:

https://www.headway.org.uk/about-bra...itive-effects/

If I have read it in a different way to non disabled people, this is likely to be the cause.

I really hope you start to at least try and be more understanding of those with neuro diverse conditions. As an example, things like dementia are expected to sky rocket over the next few years and all of us are at risk. If any of your loved ones are affected please, please don't react with rude belittlement as it will be the last thing they will need whilst confused, frightened and looking to you for support.

For the record, I don't think the post was done with any malice, but was trying to look on the bright side of things, but I do think it was unintentionally insensitive to those who have suffered because of this virus, up to and including permanent disablement and death.

---------- Post added at 08:58 ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 ----------

This morning's news has said that there is yet another strain of this virus from South Africa:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...entified-in-uk

I had high hopes that the vaccine could give us all some hope that we could get back to normality, but it now looks like it's playing cat & mouse with us.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It certainly wasn’t meant with any malice and I am sorry if it came across that way. 2020 has been a rubbish year in our household on the whole not just with COVID but other things including the death of a close relative and my kid being sick in hospital. However, over the course of a whole year, there will always be upsides.

On the call were colleagues in Belgium, France and. Germany, some of who had much more stringent lockdowns than me in the UK and struggled a lot with those. We had weekly support calls and ad hoc calls at other times. We were all very, very busy with work with little outside to compensate for this due to lockdowns.

I guess it depends on the individual outlook on how you would summarise the year. On the whole, it was rubbish for me and I wouldn’t want to repeat it but there will always be good things over the many days. It’s not black and white.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who would have thought giving the virus more opportunities to mutate was a bad idea?

Another further nail in the coffin for the achieving herd immunity through widespread transmission brigade. I suppose we are long past nailing the coffin and now lowering it into the pits of the earth.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Anger is an aspect of grief. Grief may be at the loss of freedom caused by disablement, and not just at the death of a loved one. And it may manifest itself as anger at the world for going on as normal while the one grieving is in pain. How can they carry on as if nothing has happened? How insensitive are they? I’ve experienced this, as I’m sure many here have, both in the death of a loved one and also in dealing with major, life-changing tragedy. The world can seem an especially cold place when grief is raw.

I don’t intend this as criticism, but rather as advice for your own mental well-being: please stop looking for examples of insensitivity. The whole world is insensitive by the measure you’re using, and it is unfair of you to expect others not to attend to their own mental well-being by focusing on the positive aspects of their lives. Their positive decision to be thankful for good things is not a slight against those who have suffered. It doesn’t imply indifference and it should not be taken that way.

At its best, this is a forum for mutual help and support as well as a place where we have our rough edges smoothed off by having our ideas and prejudices challenged. I’m convinced Jon’s post was absolutely in that spirit and I commend his suggestion as something we should all have a go at over the next few days. I certainly will do.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm also 100% convinced Jon's post is well spirited and as someone working from home throughout the pandemic can equally relate to teams trying to find out what to talk about in these end of year meetings in lieu of Christmas lunches. An obvious part is to focus on what went well, than what went badly. I can also relate to much of his post.

There are obviously things that haven't went well - many people are clearly isolated, struggling with childcare, perhaps even struggling spending time with their families as there's little/no escape or balance to their lives any more. They work and live in the same space, with no commute to clearly delineate personal life from work life. However to sit and mull these over at what is a challenging time of year for many, as we go into ever greater restrictions, adds to value.

I lost weight in lockdown 1 but put it all back on in the brief spell the pubs were open. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Spent more on toilet roll though......

Very lucky here too, I’d worked from home the previous 12 months before this all started so no real change, if anything my workload increased. SWMBO was furloughed from late March till early September so she had a lovely time.

Only thing that’s really changed is my overseas business travel has stopped. Which is a shame as I love spending time with colleagues in the US and Far East

Re: Coronavirus
 

Personally l think Jon's post was a good and interesting read.:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s got to the point now where I do want to travel again! I was getting a bit sick of travelling to various airports and industrial estates across Europe and beyond but I think I am ready to restart this now after a year or so off..

Thanks everyone for the support of my post BTW!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sadly Travel will be buggered for at least two years if not longer.


Also, I expect unless you've had a coronavirus vaccine and any boosters you ain't going anywhere outside your country.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My retired parents always went on a foreign cruise generally once a year with 2 of my younger brothers but l think its going to be fair while before they ever do another if ever.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A cracking read!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yep, I think you're right I'm afraid :cry:

I hope there will be some kind of agreed 'vaccine passport' for those who want/need it along the lines of the Yellow Fever Yellow Card

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

What would a vaccine passport achieve?

I was under the impression that the vaccine neither prevents you from catching Covid or passing it on to others. :shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is certainly some evidence that both the mRNA (Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna) and Adenoviral (Oxford/AZ) vaccines reduce viral load either in animal studies, human studies or both. Lower viral load means less virus to spread even if infected.

Of course studies are ongoing here which is why, at this point, you can't say that either types of vaccine prevents infection or infection spread specifically. We can only say it prevent symptomatic infections.

If the human studies confirm what was seen in the animal studies (lower viral load and rapid infection clearance) then that's where a vaccinated but infected person would be a lower risk and that's where passports would be handy

Re: Coronavirus
 

You're right, it's exactly what a doctor said this morning. The only upside appears to be that it will probably prevent those who catch it from getting the most severe affects of covid.

So, as you say, what is the point of a vaccine passport?

Also, though I can understand why they're doing it, the mass testing of the lorry drivers isn't foolproof. We're really just grasping at straws and hoping for the best as that's all that we can do at this point in time.

The mutations in the UK & South Africa have really added fuel to the fire.

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

That's some positive news, I suppose it's only a matter of waiting to see what happens and hoping for the best now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Money.

If you wanted to sell say, 90,000 tickets to an Anthony Joshua fight at Wembley you wouldn't need to maintain distancing if you only sold tickets to those who had been vaccinated. The aggregate of all the sectors you could fully reopen - to those vaccinated only - and economic impact on their supply chains is huge.

No passport and everyone is left applying the precautionary principle, restrictions, distancing, etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which means you could have 90,000 people crammed together in a large arena, and only 500 of them *may* be carrying the virus with the ability to infect others . . sounds perfectly safe to me . . get the pubs open

Re: Coronavirus
 

But the doctor this morning said that a vaccinated person might still be able to pass it on, so it's still important to wear masks, socially distance, ventilate in open spaces and adhere to regular hand washing.

Until they know more for definite, I think that they will have to hold off from using covid passports as any sort of guarantee of safety, otherwise it's just a possible illusion of safety.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But they're all vaccinated. So who do they pass it on to within the venue who is at risk?

You are right that distancing, masks, etc will remain important within the wider population and in general but there will be overwhelming pressure from many sectors of the economy to develop environments these aren't necessary for those vaccinated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The vaccine doesn't stop you catching it . . . . so all 89,500 if using the SAGE computations :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D

Yes, but...

Re: Coronavirus
 

So has smallpox been eradicated or is is still around?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Eradicated.

https://www.who.int/health-topics/smallpox#tab=tab_1

Re: Coronavirus
 

IIRC it's been eradicated from humans but smallpox still exists in labs and possibly unknowingly perceived somewhere else in ice/test tubes e.t.c.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Precisely my point. If vaccines were that ineffective, it would still be around.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How long did it take to eradicate smallpox . . . or to fully develop the working vaccine?

Re: Coronavirus
 

As long as the R value gets below 1 consistently the virus will decline to the point of eradication or to something you only can get from kissing your cat or something.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hence all the memes of people piling out of nightclubs with their walking frames and sticks. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

The point of vaccination is not to eradicate, but to control.

We have not eradicated flu, or measles, or many others, they still exist, but we dont have lockdowns and masks/distancing etc every year becasue of them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Very good point.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Even if we were to eliminate it in humans, there's the reservoir in wildlife especially bats, where it is reputed to have originated. Along with an uncountable number of other viri that could jump species.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What goes around, comes around ;)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/new...?ocid=msedgntp

Re: Coronavirus
 

It kept popping up in remote locations that hadn't been vaccinated. Teams of people were then sent out those areas to vaccinate the local population.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, they could still pass it on to each other (albeit that they probably won't get too seriously ill from it). These extra infections could then be passed onto the wider population as you say.

---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

It must surely be hoped that eradication is the end result though.

One thing that seems to be different between the two is that flu must come in seasons or at certain times of the year, hence why we have flu vaccinations at a certain time of the year.

Covid doesn't look to be doing this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think flu does appear all year round. The flu vaccine is based upon the ones going around for several months beforehand. That is how they try and guess which one(s) is going to flare up and cause a bigger problem.
Cases of Measles flare up because of those that haven't been vaccinated for one reason or another(eg too young).
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Smallpox vaccination has a long, long history but the modern idea of smallpox vaccination started wit Edward Jenner who noticed that milkmaids didn't get smallpox. That seemed to be because they were exposed to cows that get Cowpox. He took Cowpox extracts and inoculated volunteers who didn't subsequently get Smallpox. This was in the early 1770s.

Fun fact interlude - the word 'vaccination' has a root 'vacca' which means 'cow'. Cowpox - Variola vacca is where the word vaccination comes from.

The vaccine went through many stages of development and improvement over the years but the WHO embarked on the Smallpox eradication program in 1972 where outbreaks were isolated and everyone close to the outbreaks were vaccinated. The disease was decalred eradicated in 1979.

The only stocks of Smallpox exist in defence labs in the US and Russia. However, the DNA sequence is public so anyone in principle could resurrect it.

Smallpox was relatively easy to eradicate because;

• There are no asymptomatic carriers
• People are only contagious when gross symptoms are present
• There are no animal carriers for Smallpox
• Diagnosis is very easy

Not many diseases are as easy to get rid of. Polio will probably be the next one.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s probably not worth the time, effort and expense when all the vulnerable groups will have been vaccinated by the spring. This will have resulted in a marked decline in hospital admissions, and emergency restrictions will no longer be necessary.

We don’t need the whole population to be vaccinated before this happens. The whole point of the lockdowns, tiers and other measures were to ensure that hospitals were not overwhelmed. Roughly half of all deaths in the first lockdown were care home residents.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don’t see any reason to agree with either of those points of view.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If all of those things hold true then yes, however if not the “expense” of such a scheme will be tiny compared to its economic impact.

If there are delays with vaccines, or they’re not proven to be as effective against new and emerging strains then the big question over reinfection could leave some restrictions in place for much longer than Spring.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nothing

Re: Coronavirus
 

It'll make lots of money for whoever makes them, and a load more for whoever fakes them ...

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m sure Matt Hancock will have friends who can step in.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh I don't know, if the vaccine passport is blue, it'll be cool ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D:D

Please call the donors' hotline today stating the amount of your last donation and the contract you wish to be awarded. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good News. The Oxford vaccine should be approved within days: https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-27/...ross-the-globe

This is much easier to administer and is by the far the one we have the most orders for. It's predicted we'll dramatically escalate the number of vaccines as a result.

Bad News though is hospital admission are set to exceed the April peak: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ak-first-wave/

What's also worrying about that is that last time the lockdown had been in place weeks whereas in different parts of the country it has not been that long if at all. January is going to be brutal.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Great news on the Oxford vaccine. Reading the article it suggests that it could be rolled out from 4th January if approved. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fp...020174305.xlsx (tabs 1g and 1h).

Possibly more areas going into Tier 4, infection and hospitalisation numbers rising, and stats show that year 7 to 11 pupils have the highest % of the population testing positive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55464932

That seems counter-intuitive...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Gove has said elsewhere that some years at secondary might be online for the first week at least. Sage advising all schools to close for a month.

We know what happens when Government delay implementing Sage advice. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

They invent a new strain:shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Your knowledge of epidemiology and virology appears to being hindered by the tin-foil cap you are wearing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Rather surprisingly, those tin foil hats seem quite good at keeping the virus at bay :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I feel sure they are tracking new strains and just waiting for the right political moment to release knowledge of them to cover up balls ups like putting London in the wrong tier and allowing the virus to run rampant.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not to encourage tin foil hat wearing there’s also the fact Covid has been running rife in schools, which weren’t closed in fake lockdown.

Re: Coronavirus
 

When the kids go back next week and that turns out to be a colossal mistake, expect word of a new new strain running rampant through kids and not being the governments fault for sending them back to school:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: UK Daily cases of Covid-19 rises to 41,385 the highest tally since the start of the pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

So basically, they are all doom & gloom, as usual.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or maybe they're just telling it how it is, unlike politicians.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yup, Lock down harder cos that's working so well, ruin all businesses, hide under the table /become a hermit, you know the drill.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lockdown did work. Every lockdown was met with a reduction in the number of cases, followed by the numbers in hospitals and then a reduction in deaths. It may be costly, it may not be sustainable but it did work.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

Major incident in South London as a hospital nearly runs out of oxygen: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-b1779468.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder who will be the first to go public on the debatable merits of widely deploying a 62% vaccine vs a 95% one.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Glad to see “seasonal flu” has decided to piss off for some reason? Just not bothering this year.

Lazy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It might be due to people not mixing as much, and when they’re out and about in shops, they’re wearing masks, and that 30 million people are getting flu shots this year, double the number of last year?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Absolutely right. i know quite a few people (including myself) who had their first ever flu jab as an adult. It's been a good wake up call. And as you say the Covid precautions don't just protect people from Covid.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm curious what you gain on a personal level from being in perpetual denial. Does it make you sleep better? Do you run a crematorium? I'm truly at a loss as to why someone would be so consistently wrong on a single subject. With millions of 62% vaccines a mere weeks away from deployment this is surely a time to be jolly.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Denial of what?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The reality/severity of the Covid-19 pandemic and it's impacts on wider healthcare provision.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Never denied it’s “real”

Its “impact” on health care systems is a matter for those systems and those countries.

Do I believe it could have been, and still could be handled better, absolutely.

Are you giving all nations a free pass and a big tick ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Far from it. Some have worked very poorly with the tools at their disposal.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly this.

People are distancing when out as well as wearing facing covering and washing hands a lot more.

However I am at risk due to diabetes, kidney failure and on dialysis, and as yet have still not had my flu shot. Had it every other year (usually in Oct) when GPs were running the scheme. The NHS have dropped the ball in organising it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They have concentrated on the over 60s. However you should have been contacted and I can only suggest that you should chase up with your GP as I had to.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l have several long term complex medical conditions and l had my flu jab done in early October and l am in my 50's.