Re: Brexit
 

I am talking about minority governance.

Bored with the referendum and the negotiations which seems to be no more than a way of trying (and failing) to hold the increasingly fractured Tory party together, whilst not upsetting the DUP in the process.

Re: Brexit
 

Stop clutching at straws FFS. :rolleyes:

It was 4000's odd tweets, hardly influential if at all.

I reckon, President Obama's interfering lie that the UK would be at the back of the Queue for trade, influenced more people to vote Remain than those fake twitter accounts did leave.

Re: Brexit
 

Absolutely. There is a great deal of 'zero summism' afoot in Brexit discussions and even Brexit policy. Neither the UK or the EU hold all the cards, it's somewhere in between. Of course, the relative impacts may differ depending on the size of the economies and balance of the types of trade.

You see it in the press and yes, even in this forum and we're all geniuses in here...

It's certainly possible to find some mutually agreeable common ground but so much comes down to politics rather than trade. Theresa May for example, must be seen to 'win' and, in a zero sum argument, the EU must lose or at least be seen to lose.

In other news, I read on another forum (sorry, I have been seeing other forums behind your back) a comment from a trade expert about the Northern Ireland situation. If the EU are offering a customs union and possibly single market for at least Northern Ireland, what about the other three freedoms (goods, services and labour) Nothing has been said about these. It looks like some red lines may have been broken somewhere, either on the UK or EU side.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

'gosh' . . you mean there actually are people that believe everything they read on social media platforms :shocked:


*looks at sig below and grins* ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Some have their views reinforced, some are enraged, and some learn/question from what they read.

Like all media, it's how you approach it predicates what you get from it...

Re: Brexit
 

Sad to see this. We need to show some respect not threats to our hard-working, impartial civil servants. Their roles will become more important post Brexit.
https://www.ft.com/content/a1def03a-...2-7574db66bcd5

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-cost-estimate

Re: Brexit
 

Whether one agrees with Brexit or not there are no excuses for death threats and vitriolic abuse.

Re: Brexit
 

obviously Andrew is mainly right. However I take issue with the matter of the Olly Robbins part of the quote. He is not impartial and so far as I can see, the tail wagged the dog in so far as the ill-fated Chequers plan was Robbins’ work of dark art. Robbins the Remainer.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

... And another thing. If the Torygraph is to be believed, TM has gone in with her extension offer outwith Cabinet support. IMO, this really puts her in dead man’s shoes in the parliamentary sense.

John Redwood put it well on the Radio when he said that the EU would be laughing all the way to the bank as we pay more in, with our position even weaker and no intention on their part of giving way.

Re: Brexit
 

. . . a post-Brexit customs option preferred by Brexiters would cost up to £20bn


oh look there, one of my most hated sayings. I take it from the phrase 'up to' that it could cost anywhere from as little as £10 up to 20 billion then :D

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

That's from 10 - 20,000,000,000 totally impartial pounds :rofl:

Re: Brexit
 

you forgot to mention the awful German hegemony... ;)

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.ft.com/content/c3893322-...2-7574db66bcd5

Certainly, the website gives nothing away about who's behind it. http://mainstreamnetwork.co.uk/

Re: Brexit
 

The Torygraph today reports that in any future relationship deal, the awful hegemonist ic EU will insist that the UK aligns with the EU’s tax models. Their reasoning is to keep a level playing field - as in UK not allowed to lower corporation tax, etc.

The corollary to this is that the awful hegemonist EU actually fears the UK as a free, no-deal agent. So should we be seriously worried about a Hard Brexit?

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

I’ll bear that in mind.

Re: Brexit
 

According to industry, we most definitely should.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ver-cbi-survey

Re: Brexit
 

I'll just add the bit you didn't copy & paste from that article Andrew ;)


John Longworth and Richard Tice, from the pro-Brexit Leave Means Leave group, dismissed the survey as no more than “political propaganda”.

They said: “This lightweight survey, with a sample size of just 236 companies, is not indicative of the overall mood music of businesses up and down the country who just want the government to get on with it,” they said. “The CBI are crudely being the mouthpiece for ruthless multinationals and political elites who are prepared to sacrifice our long-protected democracy for their own pensions and profit margins.”

Re: Brexit
 

Contrite phrases cannot dismiss the words of Jaguar Land Rover. And how would his statement increase his pension? I doubt you or anyone believes it would!

---------- Post added at 09:26 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

Not looking good for Theresa May
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-save-job.html

But chances of a second referendum seem to have risen as civil servants plan for the possibility.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ndum-c5lt9djws Registration required for full article

Re: Brexit
 

I wish you would stop posting links behind sites that require subscription/registration, because I refuse to do either!

Re: Brexit
 

I wish remain would stop posting crap all the time about a 2nd referendum or lets have a march because we don't respect the ones that voted leave.

Re: Brexit
 

It's going to be like this for a while even after we leave. The country is divided and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

Re: Brexit
 

Yep, as I see it the country seems to be divided four ways:

1) Those who voted leave and are generally happy

2) Those who voted remain and are quite upset

3) Those who couldn't be bothered to vote and are now kicking everyone but themselves

4) Those who were ineligible to vote and are crying about the unfairness of it

To be honest though, I haven't seen so much anguish since Dirty Den was killed off :D

Re: Brexit
 

No l am certainly not upset as life goes on but there will be quite a few on both sides of the fence who will not have not been enamoured by the complete omnishambles we have had in the two years since the referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

Raab just upped the ante. As long as he gets to the table on the new stand fast basis, we might be getting somewhere. His position is that if there is to be an implementation/transition extension, at the end of the defined period, no backstop applies. A transition period implies there is a political statement that outlines the future relationship.

That statement, if arrived at, must not hide or contain anything that gives the vaguest hint of taxationalignment as that would tie our hands into anti-competitiveness. I doubt the anti-democratic awful hegemonist EU would agree to this and so we would crash out at some stage.

So we should get their taxation position sorted out up front because if they have the slightest notion of going down that route, there must be no-deal and we are 100% out on 30-March.

Re: Brexit
 

You forgot: -

5) Those who voted leave and realise what a huge mistake they made.

Re: Brexit
 

159-Days 8-Hrs 44-Min and 53-Seconds :D

Re: Brexit
 

The bit that you missed referred to the very small size of the survey and indicated the information was nothing more than propaganda. This put the words of Jaguar Land Rover in context, which you deliberately left out of the copy of the article.

The problem here is, Andrew, tnat you have a mindset which is unable to grasp that there are also upsides to leaving the EU, which might just outweigh all these downsides that you seize on with great relish.

Even Barnier admits that we are 90% there now withba Brexit deal, and all the unlikely stories we heard about what the EU will not agree to are being conveniently forgotten now. The only real problem remaining is the NI border, but much of the agitation about this is contrived.

A solution will be found. Frankly, even with a hard Brexit, this particular problem will remain, so it will be resolved one way or the other.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

No, it's not, so perhaps you will help to support her, or there will be no deal with the EU. Some more positive comments, please, instead of all the depressing claptrap of Project Fear.

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:08 ----------

I have yet to meet a single person with that view, Angua.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

I doubt that they can even pronounce your favourite 'h' word, let alone know the meaning of it.

Re: Brexit
 

First, it actually isn't undemocratic. We don't directly vote for it, but then we don't directly vote for anyone in the cabinet. In the case of our government, it's picked by the party with the greatest number of seats. In the case of the EU, the decisions are made by a group that is not directly elected, but then implemented by the (in theory) elected governments of each member. So, the people who are telling you that the EU is bad because of all these awful restrictions we have are the ones choosing to implement those restrictions.

As for hegemonist. Odd that you should say that when we, a relatively small nation, managed to create a huge empire. The ultimate hegemony.

Re: Brexit
 

you soon will when we fall of the cliff edge OB

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Ah, but did you notice the mattress below when you looked down, Dave? :D

Incidentally, if you don't want a hard Brexit, presumably you are now rooting for Theresa. After all, we will only avoid a 'cliff edge' if Theresa negotiates that deal with the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Are you trying to drum up support for the beleaguered Theresa May? If so, I think it's the likes of mutinous Rees-Mogg and treacherous BoJo whom you should be turning your attention too as unlike Dave, they have a vote in Parliament. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

You may wish to direct that comment to the ERG, Davis, Bojo, et al, who I am sure have a higher profile with the EU negotiatiors than some posters on CF...

Re: Brexit
 

Leavers knew that the consequences of a leave vote would mean years of uncertainty and an ongoing debate about the relationship with the EU. So why they're complaining about a situation of their own making is somewhat bewildering.

Re: Brexit
 

I know some wanted it to rain yesterday but it was glorious sunshine. Maybe the sun shines on the righteous? :)

Here are some pictures to prove I actually did get off my arse, travelled to London and exercised my right to protest:

Attachment 27604
Attachment 27603

I like this one especially:

Attachment 27605

We met a few other protesters there .. which was nice .. over half a million I think.

Government starting to take this more seriously:

Civil servants ‘war-gaming a second Brexit referendum’ amid impasse fears

Next step writing to our MPs .. game on!

Re: Brexit
 

The truth is no one gave it a second thought .

Re: Brexit
 

700,000 ?? A good turn out I'd say.. Peaceful protest shouldn't be ridiculed.

Would riots get more of an audience as Brexiters have threatened if they don't get the 'pure' Brexit they want ? Suspect most of them would just post rants on the Daily Fail/Torygraph rather than get off their elderly backsides.

All words and no action is the Brexit modus operandi.. Boris/ the Moggster are perfect examples. TM is safe if those wet blankets are her main rivals.

Re: Brexit
 

Imagine the Leave campaign in the event of a second referendum? Will they be in televised debates claiming how easy it will be to get a trade deal with the EU, how easy it will be to sign trade deals around the world, how leaving won't harm the economy. Who will now believe what they're saying?
When they line up their illegal money for Facebook ads, Nick Clegg will be watching and stop them.
For all the reasons above, Leave doesn't want a People's Vote. They know they can't win any vote without lying and cheating and enlisting the aid of foreign governments that are hostile to this great country of ours.

Re: Brexit
 

All back home now moaning about universal credit.

Re: Brexit
 

I know I shouldn't, but . . .

:rofl: :D


*goes to sit on the naughty step before being told to* ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Nope, bollocks. I voted leave and STILL very glad to leave. So that is not a correct statement.

---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:07 ----------

Wtf for?

The MPs gave parliament the mandate to give the people a vote already, that occurred in 2016 and significantly more people voted leave.

There will be no second referendum and rightly so as we don’t keep having votes because you don’t get the result you want.

Glad to know the march was all in vain.

Re: Brexit
 

You cannot lump everyone who voted leave into one bunch which is what the post I was responding to was claiming.

Odd how plans are being looked at by civil servants for the possibility of another vote.

Re: Brexit
 

700K ?

Is that all?

I’ve heard several estimates but Remainers would over inflate the numbers especially if Diane Abbott did the counting, does not matter. Doesn’t come close to 17.4 Million who voted to leave. Come back when it does FFS.

All the money People’s Vote put in and they could only muster up a few hundred thousand protesters. Over 1.5 million marched against the Iraq war, so less than half that amount yesterday, obviously means the country doesn’t feel the need for a second referendum.

---------- Post added at 23:36 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

They will not succeed.

So nothing odd about it at all.

Re: Brexit
 

I doubt she would do the counting. She voted for Article 50.

Re: Brexit
 

The Iraq War protest was about 1 million. The march on Saturday is the largest protest since then even if the numbers are probably inflated up from 600,000

Re: Brexit
 

So the Iraq was a protest was way bigger and the government of the day, that’s Labour, completely ignored the protest and the war raged on. So quite rightly the Losers vote March should also be rightfully be ignored.

There is absolutely no justification to hold another referendum, that the losers want to have a chance to stop Brexit. But say Remain wins this time, why the hell should this referendum be the deciding factor, why should we listen to the results of the second referendum when the first was ignored?

Let’s make it the best of it 5 FFS just to be sure. :rolleyes:

The people in U.K. had a vote, in 2016, leave won the majority vote, thus deciding that the U.K. should leave the EU in its entirety. That meant to me, leave every aspect of the EU. No staying in the corrupted union via the back door. It was very clear to me what I was voting for and I do not regret my vote to leave the corrupted EU. We need to get on with leaving.

Re: Brexit
 

People can't expect a second referendum to happen just because of one protest. That would be absurd and protests are not an accurate representation of the feeling of the entire country.

What it does do is maintain the pressure reminding the government, if they had somehow forgotten, how divided the country is. It's a further sign of the strength of feeling around Brexit and that once we leave in March that the division and anger won't go away.

Re: Brexit
 

Certainly dwarfs anything Leave could assemble when they were trying to change the status quo. Dark money paying for Metro newspaper advertising and social media can only go so far.

Re: Brexit
 

And you agree if the protesters get their way, democracy will be abused in the sense that a precedent will be set, that if future votes don’t go the way of the side that lost, the losers can protest and demand another vote?

It’s not a true democracy when there are demands to hold the same vote, again and again. It’s the EU way but UK needs to say no way, we had a vote and it’s all that is required.

Re: Brexit
 

No, Andrew, I'm just stating fact. Without an EU deal, we have a hard Brexit. Go figure.;)

Re: Brexit
 

Are you joking?

Leave won by 17.4 million people- we were victorious in winning the Democratic vote, we showed up at the ballot box, you tell me why the victors should assemble to march when we bloody won?

Such absurd thing for you to say Andrew. It’s complete bollocks.

Re: Brexit
 

The leavers are add odds with one another because some want a clean break and others want a deal with the EU.

The 'hard Brexiteers', for want of a better term, are fearful that Theresa May's Chequers plan will ruin our ability to forge new trade deals and tie us into the EU rules so that we are not truly independent. However, I think there are misunderstandings about that, and when the full details of this deal are released shortly, the vast majority of leavers will see that this is a sensible arrangement that TM has negotiated.

Dominic Raab on the Andrew Marr Show yesterday was a breath of fresh air.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

700,000? How many do you think would join a protest by the Brexiteers, who are in a majority? No amount of protesting by a vocal minority, even if it is a large minority, is going to change this decision.

We will leave, almost certainly with a deal. I am sure Parliament will have taken notice of the protest and opt to accept the deal rather than go for a complete break. It's the only compromise on offer.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

You really do live in a different world, don't you, Andrew? Why waste taxpayers' money as well as valuable time on another vote if Theresa May has delivered on the referendum decision? It's typical EU tactics to keep asking until they get the decision they want, following which no further votes will be entertained.

The EU is not democratic. They don't allow the wishes of the majority their say and they don't care. I, for one, no longer wish to be part of such a repressive institution, and frankly I am amazed that you should be raging against leaving it. I can only explain this by assuming it's the result of the Stockholm syndrome. Nothing else makes sense.

Re: Brexit
 

This flaccid argument has been tried before.......

The Cabinet is made up of "democratically elected" MPs, appointed by the PM.

The EU Commission is made up of "appointed" representatives.

---------- Post added at 09:21 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

we had a peoples vote, it was called the General Election. The Lib-dems, SNP and Greens all stood on a platform to reverse the referendum.

Nobody voted for them.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes, and MEPs can't actually put forward proposed legislation that their constituents want. Their power is only to 'suggest' amendments or vote on legislation proposed by the unelected EU bureaucracy. This organisation has been set up to avoid democracy but only to appear democratic!

Re: Brexit
 

Did she know what she was voting for.

Re: Brexit
 

No, but Jeremy told her to do it. Wasn't really her fault. :D

Re: Brexit
 

It's just been on the Jeremy vine show met police estimate between 130,000-170,000 of the great unwashed turned up.

It is estimated that over 66,000,000 people did not attend the march.

Re: Brexit
 

Bit touchy this morning aren't we Brexiters ? :D. All going to plan ? What was the plan btw ?? Any answers greatly received by HM Govt. !

Re: Brexit
 

Citizens themselves can suggest legislation however.

The parliament and council can and do amend and reject laws coming from the commission much like parliament does in the UK with bills from the government. Of course one big difference is that the legislative bodies of the EU (Parliament and Council) are elected either directly or indirectly* by the respective populations of member states unlike the House of Lords in the UK.

* by indirectly, I mean the Prime Minister who is voted for by the respective party and appointed by the Queen in the UK for example.

Re: Brexit
 

Source? Just looking at the march that seems way off.

Re: Brexit
 

If a million who marched in opposition to the Iraq war made no difference a handfull of luvvies and UC claiments can safely be ignored.

And this is in London, that hotbed of EU support. The rest of the country just wants May to get on with it.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brexit-...ay-2018-10-20/

Re: Brexit
 

I'm sure if you get your googling finger out you will find the real figure from a reputable source .

Re: Brexit
 

The plan is to leave the EU in it's entirety, not a hard question at all. It's just Remain imbeciles in government, trying to thwart the result with project fear and delay tactics, but you knew that already, you are so disingenuous Mr K. :dozey: :dunce:

Re: Brexit
 

I did Google and the only source for the Met Police making any statement on the crowd size says they cannot estimate the numbers. The only time I see the number is on Brexit Twitter with them all claiming they're Met Police numbers but no original source for the number. Looks like a made-up fact passing around the Internet.

Re: Brexit
 

I like Papa’s assertion that 66 Million really couldn’t be bothered to protest on Sat.

Whether it’s 500,000 or a Million on Saturday. Democracy already prevailed on 23/6/2016.

Re: Brexit
 

Did it really when only a quarter of the population voted for Brexit? And as we've seen it could mean a wide variety of different outcomes, which we have no say over? Would you be happy with Brino deal, which seems more likely by the day ? Or would you like the opportunity to reject that? People aren't asking for another Brexit referendum, they are asking for a vote on the deal, which Brexiters don't seem to understand/ignore.

Re: Brexit
 

disagree no deal looking more like everyday as no way will it get past parliament with all the government infighting getting worse each day rumours are pm only 2 letters away from a leadership challenger and no deal disaster for UK

Re: Brexit
 

Could you please explain what possible difference such a vote would make?

Re: Brexit
 

95% agreed with the EU now, apparently.

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

Don't be silly, Mr K! 52% of those who voted indicated they wanted to leave. 'Nuff said.

Re: Brexit
 

Ireland border still to do the hardest task and it wont get past parliament the infighting is getting worse OB

Re: Brexit
 

Says who? Did you listen to Dominic Raab yesterday?

When the full details of the deal are available to read, much of the opposition within the Conservative Party should melt away, and Labour will be hard pressed to vote against it.

Re: Brexit
 

remember other 27 parliaments got to vote on it too OB I hope your right about our parliament just cant see it though

Re: Brexit
 

And they seem to think that Barnier is the best thing since sliced bread. So if he puts the deal forward, they will agree. Incidentally, it is also in the best interests of European countries to have a deal with the UK.

Re: Brexit
 

More nonsense about population numbers. It is irrelevant. Those ineligible to vote or could not be arsed to register to vote and or vote on the day, do not count.

You dismiss easily, the referendum was the largest democratic process in modern British history, again because you didn’t like the result. Yet, had Remain won, you and others would be gleeming and not de-legitimately proclaiming that not enough people in U.K. voted.

Re: Brexit
 

What percentage of the population turned out for the march in London?

Re: Brexit
 

Between 0.75% and 1% depending on which numbers you take.

Re: Brexit
 

All relative Smurf. At the same time Nigel Farage was holding a 'Save Brexit' rally which attracted 1,200.... I make that about 600 times less and 0.002% of the population.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...ople-1-5746597

Re: Brexit
 

Wow all this fuss over less than 1% of the population wanting a peoples vote .

Re: Brexit
 

Bless...

Re: Brexit
 

That's 99% who don't want one [i'm using the remainer calculator] to work this out ,the same calculator they all used after the referendum.


99% of the population held a sit in/not turn up protest against a peoples vote.

Re: Brexit
 

:D:D

Re: Brexit
 

Problem with the 95% is that nothing has been spelt out as to what is in that 95%.

Re: Brexit
 

The easy bits are in the 95%.

Seems TM and her 'plan' are safer than ever thanks to her psychotic back benchers wishing her a horrible death. That seems to have backfired somewhat. Got to hand it to the old girl, she's the best of a very bad bunch. Could see her get some support from Labour in upcoming votes - she won't need the loony right/DUP.

Re: Brexit
 

A peoples vote on what though?

Mr K states it is on the deal but can't tell me what difference it will make. Perhaps Andrew, Ian or Dave can but they are all silent.

What format other than a binary vote (remainers love those) can it take?

Agree or disagree with the deal, what other possible options could there be?

Suggestions please.

When will this vote take place? Before it is presented to Parliament or after it is rejected by them (as it is looking will happen).

---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

Also needs the EU to agree and of course that peoples vote that you won't answer for me.

Re: Brexit
 

I answered in the post before you asked old chap ! . A vote on whatever deal they come up with (if they do come up with one). It might be that Brexiters aren't happy with it either, (eg. not nutty enough for them). If we reject it, they have to go back and renegotiate.

Re: Brexit
 

No they don't. We just exit the EU with no deal. Can you not see that?

Re: Brexit
 

Well that could possibly be an option in another vote. The people really would have only have themselves to blame then, which might be an attractive option for the politicians.

Re: Brexit
 

Quite right, pip. And without a deal, the NI border issue remains. Some are really not thinking this through!

Re: Brexit
 

Yup, and I for one definitely elected Arlene Foster and her lovely DUP chums to decide my future.

Democracy in action! :dunce:

Re: Brexit
 

It means that there's only 5% yet to go, most of which concerns the NI border issue.

Both Barnier and May agree on that figure.

Re: Brexit
 

Getting nervous are we?

Re: Brexit
 

You must be joking. Preparing for the street party already!

Re: Brexit
 

I wouldn't exactly describe the first 95% the easy bit. Most remainers didn't think we'd get past the cost of leaving the EU!

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Why would anyone be getting nervous over a mouthy 1%?

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

That's the nature of a coalition, of course. I thought you wanted more of them...:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Is it too early to apply for a visa to visit Paris in the spring?

Re: Brexit
 

Sorry, I have just been enjoying the show. On what you ask? Well I could talk about:

• A campaign run by criminals
• A campaign lead by Liars and Charlatans
• A proposal to restructure the economy based on no, yes zero, planning
• A backdrop of years of right wing media lies about the EU and immigrants
• dog whistle racism used to encourage anti-immigrant hysteria
• the fact that immigration from outside the EU has always been higher, in some years much higher, than from the EU
• the fact that our Government has had the ability for some time now to control EU migration but chose not to use it
• the fact that the country was not told that the vote would leave them, and the country, poorer

Yes, the list is endless but all of this does not matter one whit. You see, this is a religious thing. It always has been. Facts and evidence mean nothing if you have Faith. They are, by definition, incompatible.

Here is a Leave voter that represents the end of the Leave spectrum but he really believes this stuff and there are a lot like him:

"Let's get back to being the British Empire" - this leave voter at the #SaveBrexitRally in Harrogate explains why he doesn't want a #PeoplesVote

Yes, I know, I will get the same old crap about "I know what I voted for", "the EU is corrupt" and "Jean-Claude Juncker ate my goldfish" but I don't care.

This whole process is a Tory debacle: a rats in a sack civil war that is taking the country down with it. I for one am not happy to watch this play out and do nothing. I did my bit and I am proud of it. I stood up for what I think is right.

Last thought, for the literal amongst you: if you have a march of 500,000 that means there are many, many more in the country who support you: those who could not make the journey for myriad of reasons.

This is democracy in action: the people trying to stop the country being taken down by a cabal of elites, political opportunists and free market capitalists.

Time for dinner :)

Re: Brexit
 

No more votes, Mr K. We're going.

Re: Brexit
 

This is a fundamental fact some people haven’t grasped.

March next year we will exit the EU. That is law. Deal or no deal.

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:13 ----------

She’s not in the cabinet, next point.