Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

It was no such thing. Putin didn’t get Trump elected. The American Electoral college did via the American electorate. But let’s blame the Russians as it’s convenient.

It’s Absolute rubbish from you as always. It was divided and weak under Obama with his setting of red lines and then not acting when they had been crossed, covenient you forget about this.

Trump and Republicans increased military defense spending considerably. Crooked Hillary would not have bothered had she won, thankfully we avoided that disaster.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

He's played a blinder with Trump. Shower him with praise and job's a good 'un. North Korea has learnt this too.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

But he was suppose to be going to war with him over a year ago FFS. :rolleyes:

Cannot ever win with you liberals. :dozey:

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Threats and posturing seems to be a Trump trademark, with little courage to back it up.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Utter rubbish. Must have slipped your mind, a bit like you forgot why you voted for Brexit that President Obama made red lines regarding the gassing of children in Syria, while Trump took decisive action, twice, second time involving France and U.K. in the joint effort. There was plenty of courage.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Why the name calling? What generic label shall we use for you?

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I guess you forgot that Trump avoided military service when portraying his apparent courage.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

The new "little Rocket Man":

Donald Trump: US will build up nuclear arsenal

What a moron ..

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

When, where ?

Video of him being discussing himself being courageous regarding his military days please... :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 09:29 ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 ----------

:rolleyes:

But you had no issue when President Obama initiated a trillion dollar upgrade to it's nuclear arsenal. Including the Pentagon's plan for a Nuclear tipped Cruise Missile.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/22/u...?module=inline

And President Obama campaigned on wanting to become a Nuclear free world.

You just don't get it that it's just not possible, if other major players in the world are upgrading their arsenals, China, Russia and Pakistan. The U.S, our major ally is spending like crazy to keep their arsenals also up, so may be Trump is not such a moron after all, if he is then so is Obama for wanting to do the bloody same.

Same old Trump derangement syndrome yet again. :rolleyes:

More hypocrisy and one sided BS.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

There is the recording of him bragging how he likes to grab female anatomy as a way of introducing himself. That's pretty courageous, especially if they have a good left hook ;)

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

No video, just a quote he gave to an author of one of his biographies...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/09/u...e-in-book.html

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Not this shit again - get's boring when you keep bringing the same tiring arguments over and over again, especially when it has nothing to do with what Andrew was going on about.

Was a video of him from 12 years ago as a private citizen him boasting of being an Alpha male moment - he apologised for making those comments but he did make them in a private setting, which a news media decided to exploit 11 years later during an election campaign.

I know of women who have bragged grabbing hold of mens bums and crotches (and the men have often enjoyed it). So what gives... ?

I work in the healthcare sector which is predominantly more women and have done so for over 25 years. The conversations in the staff room and on breaks these women and I have been party to - some of them have behaved no better.

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

Was that it ?

Hardly bragging about courageous activities in the military that Andrew was on about. All the rallies Trump has done and not one video of him bragging about his courage in the military service ?

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Are any of you healthcare chums running for President Mick ?

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Point of the question ? :rolleyes:

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

That we usually have higher standards for our leaders than others I would suspect.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Didn't stop Crooked Hillary slagging off Trump supporters by calling them deplorable's. She acted no better in that regard. You do not slag off or try to offend the electorate like she did.

At the end of the day, Trump won despite those comments he made 13 years in ago, in a private setting, he was not speaking in public and he wasn't running for President in 2005, when he made those comments.

He apologised for making those comments and most Americans have moved on from this issue, only those who have no other argument to give, keep throwing up this issue.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Do you mean unlike the current holder of the Presidential office? http://time.com/5430884/trump-midter...uments-voters/

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1540394293

Update - amended image size (originally posted from a tablet, which doesn't have facilities for re-sizing).

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Yawn. :zzz:

The pathetic Democrats have become a radical mob, that's totally truthful!!!

She cast the first stone Hugh - so don't try that one with me.

Btw that image is too big.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Agree that image is huge!
I think the tweet in question is written by his social media person. It's not one of his early morning ramblings but a well-crafted and succinct message.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Yet he is happy to hand guns to people with mental health problems.

Oh the irony.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Oh how you have not done your homework properly.

Four Senate Democrats voted to overturn that law. The law itself was arbitrary and was a convoluted mess of afflictions and the “disorder list” that had no bearing on if a person, with a mental illness, was a danger with guns. There was no scientific application to the law, just personal opinion that was bureaucratic and very unconstitutional.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

See the Trumpster is now criticising the quality of the cover up rather than the actual murder of Mr Khashoggi by the Saudi regime....

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

So what ?

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Since this is basically a US Politics thread: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/n...ve-device.html

Someone has been sending explosive devices to Obama, Clinton and Soros.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Have they upset someone?

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

White House has apparently received one as well and CNN has been evacuated.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Either from a lone wolf nutter or from a extreme group l would say.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Sorry, no White House device: https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1055107019319984128

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Still means people with MH issues can get a gun. Don't give a monkeys who supported it, it was one of Trumps earliest decisions.

Whitehouse refuses to release picture of Trump gun law repeal.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

So his excuse for insulting half the electorate is that "she did it first"?

Very Presidential...

If it's wrong for her, it's wrong for him (or anyone) - otherwise, it's double-standards; one rule for her, no rules for him.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

No Hugh that’s my excuse and I’m not the president.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Well that narrows it down to 90% of the US !

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

That is rather a outrageous generalisation Mr K.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Governor of New York has also received a suspect package

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Still it's double-standards; one rule for her, no rules for him.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

It is a Trump supporter nutter targeting Democrats and CNN as they see it anti Trump.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Stock market went down 4.4% today as well.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

You should give a monkey's about the total inaccuracies you keep posting.

No it does not mean all people with mental health issues can get a gun, and it was not one of Trump's early decisions and I will explain below in more detail....

Let me guess you are stereotyping all people with Mental health issues as some kind of danger to society if they have a weapon, how very prejudice can you get?

However - you are still wrong on many fronts.

The new rules never went into effect before being rescinded, and more crucially, did not change any existing laws regulating who is allowed to purchase guns, those laws still exist!!!!

Laws exist right now, that seek to limit gun sales to anyone “who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution” per Title 18 section 922(g) of the United States Code.

The new Obama rules/laws would have unconstitutionally captured people fit to own a gun, with a mental illness, that would not have presented themselves as a danger with guns.

Not all Mental illnesses present psychotic tendencies and it is rather arrogant and ignorant to think down this path, as well as being discriminatory in nature.

While Trump signed this repeal in to a law in Feb 2017, it was nothing to do with him. This was an act by the Republican controlled congress.

The rule was rescinded using a legal procedure called the the Congressional Review Act.

It allows regulations passed in the final days of one administration to be rescinded with a simple majority vote in both chambers of Congress during the first 60 days of a new administration. Trump just happened to be the Republican President to sign it, almost one month in to his presidency.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

What a hypocrite Trump is. Calling for people to be nicer to each other when he's at the root of most of the vitriol and will have no doubt have inspired the bombers.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Insincerity and hypocrisy comes in many forms Mr K..

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Then why won't they show pictures?

The Americans have the most bizarre and lax gun laws, varying from state to state, yet cannot get to grips with the idea that access to guns is a huge part of the problem, and see easier and broader ownership as the solution.

Trump is in the pockets of the NRA & GOP. He could be known for doing something, instead his legacy is more deaths, more racism and more hatred.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

This is America at the moment though. People believe the other side are actively evil and when you believe that and successfully dehumanise people to the point they're nothing more a caricature of evil then stuff like this can happen. Even after yesterday it isn't hard to find relatively prominent Republican commentators dismissing this or saying it's a false flag from the Democrats, in their world they simply cannot fathom that anyone on the right might be a bit mad and that maybe the Democrats are not just pure evil.

That's a minority though, the kind of people who've spent years subsumed in hateful communities on Twitter/Facebook/Internet and have completely lost any rationality or perspective.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

The bigger worry is these relatively isolated groups are gaining numbers, where outright racism is no longer seen as taboo.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45973436#


Unbelievable! The man has no idea just how farcical his words sound.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Like this man.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-new-playbook

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Our advantage is not having a 2nd amendment.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

But then so are posts like this of yours and others that attack the man for just being Trump, when other presidents had similar policies or worse, it's total hypocrisy, which this whole thread has become.

As I was the thread starter, via the CF account - I am still deciding whether or not to close this thread soon, no such thread/hate blog existed for Obama and Bush and they were not saints either!

It's just become a Trump hate blog with users applying their own personal feelings, without actually knowing the facts of the matters they are complaining about, the mental health and gun selling is one such example recently.

The media has been completely hostile to Trump with constant attacks. I have no sympathy for news outlets that distort and make news up for their own agenda - CNN being the prime suspect. They never accepted he won the election in a legitimate race, rather wanting the war mongering opponent, who absolutely cheated in the election with getting the questions to the debate, paying for a fake Russian dossier on Trump and she gets a free pass from them and the law.

Trump is the President, no amount of negative stories, and 90% Negative news coverage of the man is going to stop this any time soon. If some nut job who has snapped, has done this bomb thing, I can understand how they have become enraged - the Democrat side has behaved appallingly and the media has been complicit or just plain ignorant to the calls, calling for Republicans everywhere to be targeted, Maxine Waters a Democrat Congresswoman, who is constantly calling for Trump to impeached, not that long ago, suggested Trump should be Assassinated by saying words like "Take Trump Out" and calling for the Democrats everywhere to go to Restaurants and target Republicans and tell them they are not welcome, which has happened, with Sarah Sanders, press Secretary being told she has to leave a Restaurant not that long ago.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

No one is saying that Obama , Clinton and Bush were saints Mick but Trump is the incumbent president currently so its quite obvious that as that incumbent president there is going to be far more news and opinions about him then anybody else currently as supporters of Donald Trump cannot just expect their opinions to be heard as they have to understand there are two sides to every argument as there is to many other things in life.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

The mid-terms are coming up. Maybe a new US Politics thread but it would have the same feelings expressed.

Nah, if someone is unbalanced enough to be sending explosives to people then they probably would have snapped at some point.

American politics can be brutal. Remember that whilst you're upset that people won't accept Trump is the legitimate President Trump himself suggested Obama wasn't a legitimate President by saying he wasn't born in America. The rational response to this is not violence.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I absolutely don't care one iota who accepts him or not. I don't live in America.

I have said from day one. Trump can be an idiot and say/do absolutely stupid things. But then so can any other politician.

But I am glad he won over his totally tainted opponent and that's where my support ends for the man. I just don't get the negative hysteria and I won't jump on any of these silly, hysteria bandwagons.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Yep, despite my highlighted quotes in your post, I still don't care one iota and still have zero sympathy for news outlets, not sure what's wrong with saying this, as they do not negate each other.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Well, enjoy not caring about people who don't accept him, while caring about people who don't accept him.

It'll go well with not jumping on silly, hysteria bandwagons, while talking about how Crooked Hilary paid for a fake dossier and was the one who really collaborated with Russians and and and....

Oh, and how the Democrats are responsible for enraging someone to send bombs, because they've acted appallingly in encouraging violence. Y'know, much like...
https://twitter.com/Mikel_Jollett/st...80557812822016

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

His words were completely hypocritical..unless he really can't make the connection between what he twitters and the actions that his words seem to have engendered in the worst of his supporters. He cannot use the language he does at his rallies and then turn around and accuse the media of instigating this behaviour. He needs to take a good long hard look at his rhetoric before accusing others.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

He is a salesman to whom the deal is everything, no matter who gets trampled on the way.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

All one sided rubbish. The media is just as complicit in its behaviour. They should rise above it.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

You seriously believe Trump is advocating people send bombs?

Ok then. Which is not what he has ever stated ever, but ok then.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

...

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

No what you mean is you don't have a plausible answer lol

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

No, I had a plausible answer, then I deleted it because I don't want to be drawn into a never-ending circular argument in this thread. But seeing as we're going there:

"If some nut job who has snapped, has done this bomb thing, I can understand how they have become enraged - the Democrat side has behaved appallingly and the media has been complicit or just plain ignorant to the calls..."

*point out that Trump has actually, literally, encouraged violence, so it's not exactly just 'the Democrat side'*

"You seriously believe Trump is advocating people send bombs?"

No, I don't. Nor did I ever say that. My fairly clearly explained point was that if you're saying the Democrats choice of words and comments have encouraged violence, then literal encouragements of violence are also... oddly enough... encouragements of violence.

But feel free to chime in with snippy comments and lols, because that's apparently the tone of debate across the UK and US now, so we might as well all lower ourselves to that level.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I have seen the appalling comments that Trump makes in the speeches to those rallies he gives..How can that reporting be complicit in lying? If he advocates violence then what can the media do.Not report it?Seriously do you think I'm stupid enough not to understand what I'm hearing and seeing? Even if he's joking it's not good sense to utter it to his followers whom may just take him at his word.:(

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I do not ever recall him ever saying it's ok to bomb his critics.

The Democrats started this when you got them telling their crowd to target Republicans/Trump supporters, they are not better and that is why I said you are posting one sided rubbish not because I think you are stupid, so wind your neck in.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

No one has stated that Trump said it’s OK to bomb his critics.

What Trump has said, repeatedly, that it’s OK to commit violence on his critics and people that disagree with him.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ackages-936274

These are Trump’s own words at rallies.

'I’d like to punch him in the face,'

‘I’d like to knock the crap out of them,'

‘Maybe he should be roughed up,’

“Try not to hurt him but if you do, I’ll defend you in court. Don’t worry about it,”

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

And the Democrats have behaved no better.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

One of his more deplorable quotes:

Trump says Clinton’s guards should drop their guns ‘and see what happens to her’

and let's not forget:

Donald Trump hints at assassination of Hillary Clinton by gun rights supporters

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

US politics, as a whole, has gone off the rails.

All this rubbish is the result of the two primary parties vying for power when the entire system was designed for the people to have the power, not the political parties.

The ONLY thing that will get the US back on track is for the American people to wake up and realize that NEITHER party is doing what it's supposed to do. The American people need to wake up and remember that it is THEMSELVES, not the politicians, who are responsible for managing their own affairs. The American people need to wake up and remember that the more responsibility they abdicate the more they are subject to the whims, fancies and follies of the idiots they elect.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Happy to agree if you can provide evidence of Democrat Presidents or Presidential candidates using the same type of language..

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

:tu:

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

You do not get to decide where the buck stops when it comes to presidents, senators or congresspersons, who have engaged in violent rhetoric and I certainly don't have to justify just presidential persons to you, so no Hugh, I am not playing your silly game, I really don't care if you agree or not, I know Democrats have behaved appallingly, I don't need a second opinion.

When politicians from the Democratic side have engaged in violent rhetoric, you only have to look at the stuff Democrat Congresswoman, Maxine Waters has said, talking about taking out Trump, asking her followers to harass Republicans wherever they are and tell them they are not welcome. Democratic Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal’s comment that says she hopes Trump is Assassinated. Democrat Vice President, Joe Biden, saying he would prefer to beat up Trump behind the gym.

---------- Post added at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 ----------

Same above applies to you also. :rolleyes:

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

got any links?

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Google has. Should try it sometimes, take a leaf out of Hugh's book. ;)

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

May i point out other search engines are available.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

And here is a video of Democrat Congresswoman, saying to her followers to harass the Trump cabinet and tell them they are not welcome.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Is she a President/presidential candidate as Hugh asked for ? And it's hardly on the same level of Trump's encouraging of violence against non-believers.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

.

Can't you read FFS?

Like I told Hugh after his post asking same - you or him don't get to stop the buck at a politicians behaviour regardless of their position.

Either side are complicit in divisive behaviour.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Yet in Top Trumps of political divisiveness there is no one trumps Trump.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Seems like a very liberal minded bomber as none of them have detonated.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

A bomber is a bomber papa pure and simple.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

They've arrested someone.

As for whose to blame I think we need to be careful in blaming entire groups and other people. There will always be some random nutters around and that'll do these kind of things irrespective of the climate at the time. That said politicians do need to tone down the rhetoric about 'the other side'. People seem to actually hate each other.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I would say if someone hates enough to make and send a bomb they would make sure it detonates we are at number 12 now and not even a puff of smoke.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

You're confusing hate with competence.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Bit like a box of Standard fireworks I was once mis-sold....

Let just see how 'liberal' the person they've arrested is....

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

And all bombers hate someone.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45996655

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I was suggesting they are not real viable explosives given the bomber had 12 attempts .

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

It's the intention to cause terror, whether the devices are viable or not.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I beg to differ.-End of discussion.

---------- Post added at 17:08 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------

You have to ask why none of them went off.

Mid terms coming up - someone targeting just Trump critics - the Democrats couldn't stop Kavanaugh confirmation with 36 year old dodgy sexual accusations.

I wouldn't put it past them to do something of this magnitude, just look at what happened in the 2016 U.S Elections, Hillary and the DNC paying for the fake Russian dossier and Hillary getting the questions to the debate, prior to it taking place..

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Who do you think did it then Bill or Hillary? :D

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Because the guy wasn't very good at it and also they were intercepted in most cases by professionals who know how to handle suspect packages?

Well he has been arrested and, if it is him, we'll soon see if this theory was right. I think everyone is greatly overestimating the competence and logical thinking capabilities of the type of person who would send bombs in the post though.

Also I don't see why the Republicans are worried about the mid-terms. We all know that if the Democrats win the house it will be declared 'rigged!!!' by the Trump fans anyway.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

I don't think Democrats will take house according to early voting data, which suggests there will thankfully, be no blue wave, which is good.

Democrats have behaved totally un-American as of late. They deserve to lose but we shall see.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Apparently the arrested man's van is plastered in pro -Trump stickers - now there's a surprise :rolleyes:

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Too convenient if one is trying to deceive.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

That's the outside of the van.I wonder who he has plastered on the inside of it ? Hillary maybe or ? Answers on a postcard :):)

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Oh and he's a Republican voter, a cunning disguise...

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Close up shows the Trump stickers are fresh - in the Florida sun, they would have faded by now - I smell a Set-up. A bomber wouldn't be this forensically careless.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

They would be if they're stupid enough to vote for Trump.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

The question is who radicalised him?

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

Probably The Donald.

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

It would be unwise to vote against higher jobs, brilliant economy and more take home pay, something that's happened under Trump, something you continually whinge about regarding Brexit - at the end of the day, it's called democracy and nobody is "stupid", for how they vote.

You know talk like this is exactly why things like this in America is happening right now. Calling certain voters "stupid", is divisive and rather playground stuff. Grow up. :rolleyes:

Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 

here's the man arrested, he doesn't look very liberal.....

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/10/11.jpg