Re: Brexit discussion
 

If our hardworking civil servants are disparaged for their independent analysis and everyone in the UK who publishes an impact assessment is deemed a lying, treacherous remoaner, what chance do you stand with your facts?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It seems appropriate to remind people of the first post in this thread

Please adhere to these guidelines - if you feel you can't, please walk away from the keyboard until you can.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

In my opinion, that is one of the things that swung it. The Government (whoever they were) had long ignored the voices of dissent, and once the chance of a vote came along we embraced it willingly.

It appears the pen is mightier than the (s)word. ;)

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No, it's not reality. This is yet another flawed forecast that factors in all the negatives and simply fails to take account of the new opportunities.

Just as a vote to leave the EU did not lead to the near disaster as predicted by the remainers, so the real deal at the end of all this will produce more benefits than setbacks.

There may be some wobbles between now and then, but that's just because the markets don't like uncertainty. It will pass.

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Did you notice that you used 'civil servants' and 'independent analysis' in the same sentence? :p:

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Are there figures if we take in to account the new opportunities? The leaked report, for its' sins, does include the effects of a UK/US trade deal (2% of GDP rise) I haven't seen anything for deals with India, China, etc.

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The reports do include the benefits of trade deals with many countries. For reasons I can't fathom, old Boy ignores this. The Government's analysis states free trade with the rest of the world would add less than 1% in GDP whilst leaving the EU would result in a 2%-8% reduction in GDP. https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonard...P3#.pn0jkvELzp

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Well, that says it all, doesn't it? Less than 1%. That's all these 'independent civil servants' were able to bring themselves to admit!

The rest of the world is rather bigger than the EU, and 'less than 1%' is an embarrassing understatement that will come back to haunt them.

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I find this bit interesting "leaving the EU would result in a 2%-8% reduction in GDP"

It seems strange they couldn't narrow it down any better than 2% - 8%, which is a rather large margin considering less than 1% was the other 'option'

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8201286.html
We really need to wake up to what Brexit will mean in practice, the rest of the World owes us nothing.

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The band is dependent on what model we go for: EEA, Trade agreement, WTO.

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Wrong.

Only tell half a misleading story, as usual, they also warned Brussels too, warning them the UK and EU is benefiting, not just the UK but also the EU and enhances the global economy as a whole.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The activists who are still fighting Brexit

Theresa May is facing calls to spell out what she wants from the next round of Brexit negotiations.

But these four people believe remaining in the EU is still the best option, and have dedicated their lives to stopping Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4290...ighting-brexit

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It would be great if instead of criticising and moaning about our hard-working civil servants you could instead more positively share your alternative calculations and your expertise in international trade with us all.

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Nobody knows because Brexit has NOT happened and stop telling other members to stop being critical to Civil servants, if they want to be critical of them, they can be, they don't need your permission or approval. At the end of the day, they get paid to do a job, nobody owes these folks any such gratitude.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I've not said that they need my permission or approval. Conversely, I don't need your permission to stick up for this great country and its civil servants.
If you and others want to criticise our hardworking civil servants because what they produce doesn't fit what Farage, Rees-Mogg preached etc it's your choice.. but constant sniping at servants of the Crown is not positive for democracy as the best people will leave. It's demotivating and you wouldn't like to be in their shoes.
In the context of Brexit it would be fantastic to hear some positive well-argued reasons as to why our civil servants are wrong. I guess I'm saying let's move on from a "I'm wrong, you're right" type of thing to something better argued. If there's a conspiracy theory behind it or well-calculated data, let's hear them.

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Hmm. Is this what "taking back control" looks like!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...brexit-eu-says

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oh, more analysts announcing impending doom . . . http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...-hit-uk-trade/

some snippets:

Over 2017 as a whole exports rose by £62.5bn, outpacing the £55.5bn rise in imports and so reduced the deficit to £33.7bn.

Despite the drag from trade in December the economy still accelerated overall in the final quarter of the year to grow by 0.5pc, even with these specific headwinds.

“Excluding oil and erratic items, growth in export volumes exceeded growth in imports in the fourth quarter, suggesting that the underlying picture for net trade is much better than these figures suggest,” said Paul Hollingsworth at Capital Economics.

The National Institute for Economic and Social Affairs estimates that UK GDP grew by 0.5pc in the three months to January, with both the manufacturing and services sectors contributing to the expansion.

"We are forecasting GDP growth of close to 2pc this year assuming a soft Brexit scenario," said Niesr's Amit Kara.

"At this speed the economy could start to overheat unless the Bank of England withdraws some of the stimulus that it has injected by raising the policy rate."

Mr Kara anticipates an interest rate rise in May, and another hike every six months until the base rate reaches 2pc.

Doesn't sound like a doomsday scenario to me, but it is short term . . . and we haven't left yet (added for Andrew) ;)

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I was not criticising, I was making the point that they are not neutral, as you like to think they are. Civil servants tend to be left of centre in their politics too, so being negative comes naturally to them!

Once again, I point out that the forecasts about how we would fare after a Brexit vote have been way out, but your deference to ‘experts’ and ‘independent civil servants’ is clouding your judgement.

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Every civil servant I've met has been pro-Brexit. Yes, they hated Farage but they saw Brexit as creating more jobs for British civil servants. If anything, their motivations would be to encourage Brexit, not discourage it!
The forecasts we're seeing now aren't Project Fear. They've been scrutinised millions of times over by a Brexit-focused Government. We're also not seeing contradictory forecasts from other organisations. All are saying that Brexit means a reduction in growth and that's what we're seeing now as the Eurozone outpaces us. Maybe you'd Prefer Bill at No. 35 to do your cataract operation on his day off from Tesco. I'd prefer to trust experts if I can understand their logic.
Optimism on its own doesn't change the facts of geography and economics. Simply saying that because Project Fear has not come to pass, all economists' predictions will always be wrong is flawed.That clearly isn't the case as they would all be out of jobs.

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Can't wait for the toryexit...:)

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Never in a million years will the racist Labour Party be in government, as it currently stands, as a severely Anti-Semitic, Momentum-hard-left led party, that offers discounted tickets to rallies, based on ethnicity. But this thread is not about who will be in government, threadexit .... >>>

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Plenty of talk about the recent EU negotiations.

Less emphasised was the fact that a long-scheduled meeting between EU and UK negotiators on Friday, to discuss the post-transition future relationship, had been cancelled following a “diary clash” on the British side. Of course, that's a polite term to cover the fact the UK side still haven't agreed amongst themselves what future relationship they want with the EU.

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The EU are starting to get the jitters. Bullying the UK will not work. Even Sir Foghorn Clegghorn is singing a different tune.

Our negotiation tactics are doing fine. We'll tell the EU what we want when we're ready.

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That's a good point - what would be the impact of a 'no deal' to the EU? I would be interested to find out what the government intends in terms of import tariffs and regulation at the most favoured nation (i.e. no deal) level.

At present of course, we work under the EU tariff schedule where MFN tariffs range from very low up to nearly 50% for dairy products for example. Should we look at reproducing what we have now post leaving or change emphasis? The current schedule is highly protectionist over agricultural products and commercial automotive industries. What would people on her like to see?

If we firm up what our import tariffs would be, then we would have a baseline for negotiation.

One other point - could we and should we continue the 'everything but arms' program where we do not charge import tariffs on the 47 poorest countries? I would suggest yes but I would be interested in other peoples opinions.

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Since the vote I've met people who voted leave who have now changed their mind once becoming more informed about the implications, conversely some who voted to stay have said they would vote leave if another referendum takes place due to the behaviour of the EU during Brexit negotiations.

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Looks like Barnier has overplayed his hand.

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The EU are nothing but a corrupt set of bullies and I’m glad it is backfiring on them politically for trying to take the tough stance on us.

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Yes, it's beginning to dawn on EU countries that they need GB. Barnier is stuck in a rut with his attitude and needs to step up.

---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 ----------

If every Civil Servant you've met is pro-Brexit, you must associate with a very discrete group of Civil Servants!

You may be right that at least some forecasts are not designed deliberately to put fear into the minds of voters, but I am afraid they are not taking full account of the opportunities to be gained from Brexit. Furthermore, they are not taking account of the fact that there will be a minimal adverse impact on trade if we get the deal our government wants.

Despite all Brexit forecasts so far, there is little evidence that any of them are anywhere near right, and the siren voices who proclaimed a major impact immediately following the vote to leave have been proved hilariously wrong.

I find no reason at all to believe that the economy will suffer post Brexit. The EU isn't that great.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I can give you a simple example of the impact of leaving the EU and customs union that will have an impact...

Switzerland is in the EU single market but not in the customs union. For every export to Switzerland from the EU, a 'preferential certificate of origin' is required which states that the goods were made or significantly processed in the EU and therefore covered by the Switzerland/EU trade agreements. This ensures that the correct tariffs, if any are applied to the goods on import.

If and when we leave the customs union, all exports to the EU from the UK will require either a preferential (deal) or non-preferential (no deal) certificate of origin to ensure that the goods originated in the UK and not imported from a third country and shipped through the UK to the EU, thus importing to the EU 'through the back door'.

Certificates of origin are not an EU thing, it is an internationally agreed instrument of global trading.

The company I work for estimates certificates of origin take 3-5 'man minutes' per order to complete. So, for a 1000 orders, that's 50-83 man hours. That's 2 additional head count for a small number of orders.

At present, 45% of our exports go to the EU and will need this certification where they didn't before.

On the plus side, that's additional employment. On the minus side, that's a significant increase in costs to an exporter meaning they will either have to take the cost or increase pricing to maintain margins, making our good less competitive on the global market.

Ignoring every other tariff and non-tariff trade barrier, something simple like certificates of origin will have an impact...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But you are simply describing a problem which can be resolved by having a trade and services agreement, incorporating a bespoke customs agreement for the UK. It’s not really what I would call rocket science. It is simply a matter for negotiation.

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It is possible to avoid the certificate of origin issue I posted and that’s where goods clear customs in one country and can then be exported freely to other countries. To be able to do that, you need a common external tariff. The EU want to impose an anti dumping tariff of 100% on Chinese steel but the UK doesn’t. If the UK imposes a 20% tariff, what’s to stop China importing to the UK and then the UK exports to the EU at a lower tariff. That’s what this certification stops.

If there’s a common tariff, then the certification isn’t needed. Unfortunately, that’s a customs union which HMG has said we’re leaving.

Personally, I think we will be in a customs union with the EU after leaving but it won’t be called that.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The customs agreement will address such issues. It is not a problem that cannot be resolved.

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Unlike Northern Ireland.....

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Well that’s where a customs union but obviously not ‘the’ customs union comes in. Solves a tiny aspect of international trade I raised as an example of trading friction and a big aspect of the Northern Ireland issue.

However.... This will be the governments toughest sales job ever both to members of their own party and the general public.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That customs union or customs agreement will presumably mean that the UK can't negotiate its own trade deals. Which Old Boy, Rees-Mogg, et al will need a lot of convincing on despite the detailed insight you have shared with us.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The whole point of departure from the EU is that we will be free to conduct our own trade deals. Any customs agreement needs to recognise this. The border between NI and Ireland is also capable of being resolved.

We do not yet know what either agreement will look like but all will be revealed eventually. The government is deliberately keeping its cards close to its chest, and for good reason. When you look at Barnier's stance, and the growing reaction to that from other EU countries, it is clear, as it has always been, that ultimately the EU must face the reality of our leaving and that without a deal, the EU will be much worse off.

I know it is frustrating for everyone that things are moving so slowly, but the government know how the EU operates very well. May has not lost her way on this, and some of the voices off are necessary to show the EU that she has little room for maneouvre. The detail of Britain's proposals will be revealed when Barnier and his nasty friends are willing to listen. Shouldn't be too much longer now - be patient!

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Vicious rumour ( being spread by me) That she is moving the date we leave forward, smart move imo

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We can either do our own trade deals or we can have seamless trade with the EU. As Jonbxx has explained, we can't do both. Which is it to be?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The former. A mutually beneficial arrangement for the latter might be possible once M. Barnier learns respect for the UK; he is walking a knife edge.

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If we go and strike our own trade deals, it is not possible to have frictionless trade with the EU. It doesn't matter what mood Michel Barnier or anyone else is in. Those are the rules of international trade - customs and regulatory compliance dictate this, it isn't a decision that can be made bilaterally

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This is one of the key thing that Old Boy needs to appreciate.
It's not about being negative or positive, Brexiter or Remainer. It's about the facts of international trade.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh well, striking our own deals it is then. Au revoir Barney.

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It’s only an additional burden for 45% of our exports that never existed before. The point I was making was that this 100% will affect exporting businesses if they ship to the EU so to say there won’t be a cost is incorrect.

In other news, the letter presented in 2016 by the Japanese Ministry for Foreign Affairs to the UK and EU has just been published. It’s pretty blunt! The requests are on page 4 with extra details further on.

You can see it here - http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000185466.pdf

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Japan knows it's playing on the slide, not the climbing frame. They're just trying to make sure their economy doesn't hit a brick wall by ensuring ours does :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't believe you are thinking outside the box. Clearly, the government believes there is a way through this.

For example, you can have frictionless trade for certain goods and not others. I haven't looked into this, but it may be possible to give the UK some sort of agency status to conduct certain affairs on behalf of the EU, and the EU on behalf of the UK.

It is a question of looking in detail at the rules and working out how they can be applied in this situation. It is not as black and white as some are making out.

The government has said often enough that our future outside the EU is dependent on our being able to strike our own trade deals. If what you said was correct, why do you think the government is proceeding in the way it is? Problems are rarely insurmountable.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It’s the third largest economy in the world, twice the size of the UK’s.

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Because this government (and previous ones) have such a great track record in getting the outcomes they expect... (Referendum, 2015 General Election, etc.).

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Ha ha! Yes, but we all know how fickle the public is! Just one event during the run up to an election or referendum can change everything.

I guess it would be repetitive to remind everyone of all the economic forecasts that have been completely wrong. Wasn't the economy meant to have nose dived by now, incidentally? :rolleyes:

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Now you know none of that matters don't you. lol

All the speculation and 'what ifs' do but the facts of what's actually happened despite all the remain side's numerous predictions of doom about what would follow the vote can just be forgotten and in no way cast any doubt on the validity of their argument. Talk about being selective eh?...

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The EU is backwards, for the 21st Century that fact you have to be in a "club" and pay billions into this club in order to trade and make rules is prehistoric. We need to be out of this club we are being used not just by the EU but the world that is using the UK as a means to gain access to the EU.

The world needs to know that we are standing on our own 2 feet now. Where was the EU when it came to paying back the billions of $$ in order to save it from WW2 no thanks for that.

Especially when you get the likes of Junker making fun of the UK "******" and people want to be part of this club.

I would sooner go off the cliff edge than stick around in a club that more than likely sniggers at the UK when we are not around.

Racists they are and we can't even claim back on investments put into the EU but they are happy to take billions in a divorce bill for future commitments.

How many are these so called experts actually genuine in wanting to leave or had back handers to say these dooms day things?

As I already said companies currently putting prices up and using Brexit as an excuse is utter bull they don't even know how all this will turn out yet but have made a mockery out of the general public riding on the back off it.

The governement needs to step in on this as well.

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Nothing at all to do with the drop in value of the pound against the euro and dollar is it?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The drop in the pound was actually helpful for trade. It was over-valued anyway, that was pretty well known. This really is clutching at straws! Look again at the predictions that were made about what would happen immediately after a vote to leave.

It. Didn't. Happen.

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Takes a special kind of pig-headedness to be wrong 100% of the time and not be man enough admit it.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. :D

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The bremoaners are peeing me off, with the constant going on and on about stopping brexit.

We're leaving get the fuff over it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Do you think that a decrease in the value of the Pound can lead to a rise in the cost of imported goods and services?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Do you think it hasn't happened before, and won't again?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes, the value of GBP has gone down in the past and will go up again. However, we live in a globalised world now. The level of self sufficiency of the UK is lower now than ever - we need to import goods just as much as other countries want to import what we make and use services we provide.

The effect of globalisation means that exchange rate fluctuations make a bigger difference than ever to the UK population and business. Sometimes it will work in your favour (my salary is in GBP and is set but underlying this, I am officially paid in USD so I am cheaper to employ) Sometime it doesn’t (my company sells to the UK in GBP but accounts in USD so the UK branch is making less money)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What it does is increase our ability to export our products.

As for imports from the EU, if they get to expensive, we will import from elsewhere.

So the problem is....

Sorry, you've got me there. :shrug:

---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:48 ----------

I assume that you are referring to the minority of the country who are trying to deny the will of the majority to get out of EU domination.

If so, I agree.

If not, we have a problem. ;)

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

It's simply desperation, Carth, don't worry about it!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Indeed I have as I'm talking about a decrease in the value of the Pound which makes all imports more expensive.

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

They've recently signed a free trade deal with the largest trading bloc in the World, so the country is pretty sorted out trade wise.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Whereas our exports are cheaper, making it good for British businesses. And our ability to trade with other parts of the globe reduce or eliminate the downsides of EU detriments.

Trust you to paint the negatives at the exclusion of the positives, Andrew! Please let's have some honesty in this debate.

Are you dependent on the EU for your pension, by any chance?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I just asked a reasonable binary question which people seem to avoid answering "Do you think that a decrease in the value of the Pound can lead to a rise in the cost of imported goods and services?"

That's not negative or positive.

Honesty is not pretending you can have your cake and eat it and accepting the knowledge of people who actually work in import/export like jonbxx even if it's uncomfortable.

With regard to your EU pension question, nope, I'm not Nigel Farage and you can't claim your £5! :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Your reassurance is accepted! :)

However, the main point I was making, which I'm sure you will not disagree with, is that a decrease in the value of the pound makes it cheaper for us to export our goods.

I think that, being an honest person, you would agree that this is a fact.

I hope I have not misjudged you.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Which is good if you were to export more than you import. Except in the UK........

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, Andrew is also concerned about out imports being more expensive. I omitted to answer this properly last night, there was a lot going on here.

What I should have said was that while EU exports are more expensive for us to import with a weaker pound, with our new found ability to trade with additional countries, those same goods may be cheaper. The EU is not necessarily the cheapest to import from, I would say.

Anyway, the cheaper pound does not seem to have affected the average man in the street much, so it's not a reason in itself not to leave the EU.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The UK isn't much of a primary manufacturer (raw materials) What's left of our manufacturing base is secondary manufacturing - making things, not materials basically. Those raw materials need to be shipped in from somewhere so while a low GBP may help exports, it adds to the costs of the raw materials used to make what we export which will impact margins.

Fun fact of the day - cars produced in the UK contain only 44% of UK made content, the rest is imported. Most trade agreements require >50% of a product to be made in country for preferential trade deals to apply. UK manufactured Nissans and Hondas would not be regarded as UK made. Some canny trade negotiations would be required here.

Source - Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders https://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/up...ew-Figures.pdf

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You could probably say the same about most things . . . especially if you buy from the major supermarkets.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not sure you understand Jon's point. The inference is that Nissans and Hondas will no longer be exportable from the UK.

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Which countries will we be able to trade with that we're not trading now? The EU opens up access to free trade with markets like Korea, Japan, Canada, Chile and Turkey that we wouldn't get automatically. There may be a village in Africa that we might be able to sell a few pots of Marmite too if we had a free trade deal with it but membership of the EU provides the largest free trade deals. And that's before we've even counted the 500m EU residents.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Considering the EU imports probably 10 times the amount of cars and car parts into the UK than the UK export to the EU, I'd suggest the EU need to tread carefully if they try to shaft us on any deals regarding the Auto industry.

They need to strike a good (fair) deal or it may bite them in the exhaust manifold.

And if the motor manufacturers pull out of the UK, just slap their imports with a massive tariff - I can go without a new car for a year or two while their stock piles up :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's interesting the ones insisting on "a fair playing field" are the EU and they're so desperate we cooperate they've gone as far leaking that very statement to the press, I'm confident we'll get a deal that suits us, it won't be as good in terms of trade as we have now but it won't be that bad either.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Are you aware that the USA is not a small village in Africa? :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The same USA that is becoming more and more protectionist and talking about imposing tariffs on imports?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I must have missed a statement from the EU. Would you be able to put a link up?

Many thanks in advance!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Interesting interview with Sir David Warren, British ambassador to Tokyo from 2008 to 2012, and now head of the Japan Society, the leading independent body in Britain on UK-Japan relations. Some extracts below.
https://www.ft.com/content/786c8efe-...6-b9ccc4c4dbbb

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes and it's the same USA that wants chlorinated chicken and the NHS included in any deal and Mrs Mayday is desperate enough to give it to them

Seeing as you asked so politely

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/eu-seeks-p...165151876.html

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But not steel.
The Trump administration said it was weighing broad-based tariffs and quotas to curb imports of steel and aluminum in the name of "national security

Or stock exchanges
SEC blocks Chicago Stock Exchange sale to China-based investors

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, that's your interpretation. What President Trump said in his State of the Nation speech was that he wanted 'fair and reciprocal trade deals'.

I have no problem with that. It's a demonstration of how all agreements should be negotiated. Why are you so afraid of that?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

you have no problem with USA wanting to take over our NHS as part of deal?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

My God, the indoctrination of this tired old narrative knows no bounds, Dave!

The NHS will always be free at the point of delivery. Why should it matter who delivers it, as long as they are competent?

I've seen enough of the people I know who have opted in the end for private health treatment that they have paid for, who say they are amazed at how well they were treated compared with their previous NHS experiences.

Why should I, or anyone else, worry that my treatment is provided by the private sector if I don't have to pay for it?

Oh, and by the way, the last period of Labour Government introduced a fair amount of privatisation, so let's not go down that ideological route!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Let's go down that route, the creeping privatisation of the NHS can only end one way and it won't be fee at the point of use. We are already seeing private patients being given beds in NHS cancer wards at the expense of the public. Private ambulances are costing more and more for a worse service and who does oily little Gideon Osbourne invite to discuss opportunities with, our closest neighbours in Europe or America, yes didn't need two guesses did you. The thing I find most worrying is the lack of transparency, if what's happening is good for the public you think they'd want to tell us all how well they'd done rather than hide figures.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You see, that is the lie that those who are 'weaponising' the NHS want you to believe, and you've just sucked it in!

There are no plans to have people pay for NHS treatment, which will remain free at the point of delivery, whether the public or private sector is providing the service.

Tha academy schools are run by the private sector, but they don't expect parents to pay for their children to get educated there, do they?

As for private patients in NHS wards, you forget that whether you are a NHS or private patient, you still have the right to NHS care. It should also be remembered that private patients take a lot of strain off the NHS.

As for private ambulances, they are being brought in to take the strain of an overloaded health service, caused by an ever growing number of people using it. Without the private sector, you would have even longer waits following 999 calls.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Academy run schools: Struggling the same way as ordinary schools and getting Government help with funding. I may be wrong (often am) but I thought the idea of an academy school was to place it in private hands to save tax payers money?

Private patients take a lot of strain off the NHS is it by using NHS facilities, equipment and personnel? Used to be called 'queue jumping' at one time. And don't get me started on NHS dentists v Private dentists

Private ambulances 29 September 2017 One of the largest providers of private ambulance services in the Eastern region went into administration today. “We have been very concerned about this company for months. Both patients and staff have suffered. We know of numerous cases of vulnerable patients not being collected from hospital and ambulances that failed to meet even basic standards of road worthiness.”
https://eastern.unison.org.uk/news/2...dministration/

It all seems to me to have the look of 'Carillion Mk2' about it :(

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Revealed: rightwing groups plot to ditch EU safety standards on food and drugs

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

All for our own good I should think. Chlorinated chicken and hormone injected beef here we come. All part of the Brexit dividend....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Another fear mongering bullshit story. Sourced from the crappy leftie, vomit inducing guardian.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And your news sources are Mick? ( you rarely post any links to your valuable info ;) )

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't understand why you feel this incessant need to use childish names for all the people/groups/institutions/entities etc that you don't agree with or like. I'm beginning to wonder if deep down you feel threatened by them.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I certainly don’t feel threatened by the lefties from the guardian. And calling them lefties is not childish.

My turn for question time... I don’t understand the need why you keep saying ‘cheers Dave’ at the end of every post, but there you go. (Here’s a tip, get a signature that does it for you.) :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

it's a lot nicer signature than your usual sign off Mick.

Cheers

Mr K.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don’t care how my sign offs look, here’s another....

Back on topic.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I would use an automatic signature if adding 'Cheers Dave' to what's already there didn't fall fowl of the 4 line automatic signiture rule - increase the maximum line count and I'll happily automate it. That's why I type it every time.

So I take it you don't think calling them 'crappy leftie, vomit inducing' is even slightly childish?

Regards

Dave

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Paul does :)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...24&postcount=3

But then I guess this isn't a forum with close links to newspapers in general or the guardian in particular

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Erm, that is totally misleading to bring that here. Paul is on about people using Vomit Media instead of Virgin Media, this has nothing to do with me using the words ‘vomit inducing’, nor is it childish.

This will be the last time I say back on topic, unless people actually want a forum break?!?!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Just like many other bullshitting rags..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

https://www.ft.com/content/9cd44aa0-...e-08320fc2a277
It's a shame such enthusiastic Brexit supporters are now realising the practical reality. A privileged few might benefit, the majority won't.
(sorry for posting from the 'lefty vomit inducing 'Financial Times' ...)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Financial Times is one of the most reasonable rational newspapers and there ain't many of those..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes but it's rubbish for stories on diets, soaps, the weather, strictly/x-factor etc ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The arrangement proposed by Brussels . . . just say no, it's that easy

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Just as they can say no to our begging for a 'transition', which is needed as Brexit is going to be incredibly damaging.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You could always avoid meat that is 'Made in America' if it worries you.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not so easy in restaurants and processed foods to determine country of origin.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Add on top of that the food companies ability in telling us what we want to hear and not what we don't want to hear makes it a bewildering confusement at times for the consumer..