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Re: Unstoppable migration?
It is quite bizarre how some people just cannot accept any downside with these levels of immigration. It's like they've been brainwashed into believing that any criticism of it is tantamount to blind racism and xenophobia and has no foundation in reality. These same people tend to whine on about lack of services, housing etc. without for a moment acknowledging how difficult it is for those services and our infrastructure to cope with such huge and rabid population growth, let alone make progress. Despite having 1.5m unemployed of our own, their argument seems to be that we need more migrants to do the jobs which need to be done (most being low skilled) and make up for our increasingly aged population. It's not temporary migration tough is it. Our population has been growing (largely as a result of migration) by around or the last 1,000,000 every 3 years for well over a decade so what does that tell us about the future? The proponents of uncontrolled migration have nothing to say about how we're going to cope with the increasing demands placed on our services when the migrants themselves grow old. Maybe they think we can just keep importing more people ad infinitum or maybe their stance is a political one and for reasons best known to themselves they'll only be happy when the UK has 100m people, 150m, 200m... It'd be nice to think that even they will have some sort of upper limit in mind but what are their plans going to be to suddenly stop any further immigration when that point is reached and just what is our environment going to be like at that point? Have they really given any thought to this at all I wonder? Population growth on this scale is unsustainable for all sorts of reasons but it's not easily reversible. That isn't racism it's something called FACT. Once the damage is done it's done and the lack of foresight evident amongst those who support uncontrolled migration is as astounding as it is worrying.
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Which was that they are all not, blindingly obviously, here to work the land or work in our NHS as some would have you believe. |
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Excellent post Osem :tu:
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It shows how much investment we need in public infrastructure to sustain this population growth. Social housing NHS Education Policing Roads Social Security (welfare) Whilst it may seem the solution is to stop immigration, that alone would create a bigger staffing problem for services such as the NHS and also would not address the remaining circa 250k annual growth in the population. I read a big barrier to new housing asides from the private companies deliberately building slow (to maintain supply and demand balance) is the difficulty acquiring land to build properties on. This country probably needs to do two major shifts in policy. Mass social house building. Compulsory purchases of land from private landowners. |
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No the figure isn't all immigration but the bulk of it is and the you can add on top the higher birthrates prevalent amongst migrants which also add to our huge population growth. You can build as many homes as you like but at what point are we going to say enough is enough? Homes need roads, services etc. where are they going to come from. We cannot build our way out of the housing problem unless we can control population growth at a manageable level. We're talking about having to build the equivalent of 2 cities the size of Oxford every year just to keep pace with net migration. Where do you suggest all these houses are built and how are they going to be serviced? |
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It has been announced that "settled" migrants will be able to bring in their families after brexit. The thin end of the wedge before real negotiations get rolling.
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I suggest a combination of managing population growth and investment. Management can be achieved by applying quotas to immigration, as well as limiting the amount of social security payments to large families to discourage constant breeding. However we need some form of growth, and growth is natural anyway, so we have to also invest more in infrastructure so yes that means. Housing Roads Schools Hospitals Police Social Security Other forms of public servers etc. This is funded by growing GDP, and not irresponsibly cutting taxes just to keep a wealthy few happy, we probably should be increasing taxes right now not decreasing. The barrier to this is the amount of people in the UK (probably a majority) who think society is not important and everyone should just look after themselves. As a result people dont like paying taxes. The stuff I listed, was happening routinely throughout the 50s,60s and 70s before we had a shift of thinking from the 80s onwards. The only way we could consider what we doing now as reasonable is to start killing people to avoid the growth. Also 10% of NHS staff is not some insignificant number, thats a lot of people, also I expect they congregated in certain parts of the country e.g. I think well over 10% of NHS staffing in Leicester is manned by immigrants or immigrant parent families. Nearly every pharmacist is owned by asians in Leicester as well, may well be british born asians but at some point in their family tree probably migrated to here from India or Pakistan. Nearly all my delivery drivers from tesco are not white british, pretty much every taxi driver is not white british, my postman is a muslim, these people arent just benefit unemployed scroungers, many do contribute to the country. So alot of the blame is from governments not investing in infrastructure to handle the growth. Been blunt I would say infrastructure is far more important than government debt, even if we went bankrupt I would say it has to be done. The current thinking is very short termist. Also there is money been spent but very badly. Think how many homes the HS2 costs would pay for. To this day ignition is probably the only high earner I have seen admit on a forum he would accept paying more taxes. Just about everyone else who has the means see's it as theft. |
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If there is any left then maybe I will think about giving some to "charity". We are in a Me first society and not a We first society. We should take some lessons from the Nordic Model although there are some things that do not seem appropriate. Maybe we should start the cull with the immigrants? |
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Maybe the Italians should just build loads of new homes eh?... :rolleyes: |
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There is no level of realistic investment that can keep pace with the level of immigration we have had for too long now it just isn't possible without bankrupting the country. We have a limited level of social resources and we have to not just cut the numbers coming in but deporting the large number that are here that shouldn't be. It isn't going to be pleasant and it isn't going to be easy but it's got to be done the situation in some areas is already creating issue's and it's spreading to more areas.
We have had a period of austerity we have crumbling public services and communities that have had their entire balance interfered with creating unnecessary social tension. All because one group of cretinous politicians wanted to play a big social experiment thank you new labour and gutless politicians afterwards thank you conservatives that did nothing beyond rhetoric to correct it. |
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It's quite evident that there's been no foresight applied to this problem and migration has been used by successive governments to suit themselves - Labour in terms of social engineering but both parties in their blind pursuit of increased GDP the 'easy' way. Forget the difficult stuff like productivity, lets just expand the population to make the number grow. If we thought we had an age/pensions time bomb a decade ago, well it's going to get a lot worse and the answer is to have controlled migration but to restrict those who are allowed to remain and gain citizenship rights. That's the unpalatable reality and the longer we leave it the harder it will be to tackle these problems. The same applies to the mass migration we are seeing in Europe and elsewhere. It can't be allowed to continue because there are countless millions around the globe who'd like a new life somewhere else and the more who're taken in, the more will come, the more desperate they will be and the harder they will fight to be accepted. What we have now is chaos which is being exploited by people traffickers and causing many economic migrants to take their chances. We can't accept them all but where are our leaders in deciding at what point enough has to be enough? |
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Add to that there is growing opposition to immigration in a number of EU states this is not just a problem within the UK and it has to be sorted out starting now because I don't want to start seeing headlines of violence against immigrants. My biggest criticism at all the western european governments is this race to the bottom they are all engaged in when we should be spending the time and resources being wasted atm raising these other countries up in standards rather then lowering ours down which is not tenable for much longer.
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The 'going bankrupt' bit would be the inevitable result. ;)
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No it's economic fact if we're talking about current immigration numbers.
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We're drowning in them. :( |
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I see Austria's migrant welcome has turned a bit frosty with troops now being mobilised to prevent them crossing into the country from Italy. Wasn't that long ago that Austria was being lauded by some around here as some sort of role model for migrant welfare...
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Meanwhile Austrian border guards greet migrants:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...4&d=1499328787 Attachment 27004 |
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This, together with a good training strategy for our own citizens, will keep control of immigration and relieve the overwhelming pressure on housing and public services. |
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A bit different to the migrant ferry service laid on by misguided charities. |
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Can anyone seriously deny this? By welcoming migrants of all types (the minority actually genuine refugees) Europe has opened floodgates it's going to find very hard to close. The politicians can't keep fudging this issue. |
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As predicted years ago by Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.
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If any of these Africans are qualified nurses or Doctors we should take them. We could send boats over, a bit like Dunkirk. |
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Surely their own people will need Doctors and Nurses...
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When's that ever stopped us before |
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...-nhs-brexit-eu All part of the Brexit dividend and our hatred of those that have had the cheek to come here and care for our ageing population. |
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Oh fgs he's off again "hate" nobody with half a brain hates anyone working here in our care system be it the NHS or the many care organisations and companies that employ many and we have a lot in our town it being a retirement town and they are not leaving in droves either. You really are an alarmist of the lowest kind happy to spew any rubbish as long as it's against brexit why don't you just leave the UK and go to your beloved EU then we will all be happy unless of course you don't believe what you say because if you do isn't it a no brainer for you.
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And this is the reality of the EU's migration refugee/asylum policy in the Med:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-e...-mediterranean http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40504374 |
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Italy plots ‘nuclear option’ to send migrants north
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It wouldn't surprise me. I think a number of countries have long been 'rubber stamping' large numbers of migrants and letting them head off elsewhere and I can understand why they'd do that for several reasons.
They're quite right about the blatant double standards evident too. Not a peep when an EU minister claims millions will swamp the EU but rabid screams of right wing extremism, racism etc. when Nigel Farage rightly predicted what has happened. It's so easy to shout, scream and hiss at the messenger when you don't like the message isn;t it but the facts and images are out there for all to see. |
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If Italy was allowed and had a very hard border to the north, or better still further south within Italy, how many of them would come? Do they see Italy as their final intended destination?
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Meanwhile back in Blighty...
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1 in 4 births to a foreign-born woman.
We are being invaded? |
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We are being bred out and sooner then a lot think will the UK become a minority white nation not right wing knuckle dragging just fact birth rates in the white group are already low and last i heard still dropping though that was a couple of years ago so might not be applicable now. It's another of those subjects no one is supposed to talk about lest they immediately be labelled racist and incur the wrath of those more enlightened then anyone who dares raise the issue.
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An interesting read about how a US management consulting firm was brought in by the German government to help speed up their struggling asylum system and the repercussions thereof. Essentially speeding up the decision making system to reduce the huge backlog of applications but resulting in a significant increase in mistakes being made and a vast number of appeals now clogging up the courts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.758ed19deea5 They may understand how to make efficiencies but do they understand the legal systems or do they even care? Sound familiar? I reckon politicians put rather to much faith in 'consultants' than they should but of course they rather like being able to take any credit going whilst having the option of blaming the consultants when it all goes wrong. The consultants carry on talking the talk, picking up their millions and saying what their paymasters want to hear... |
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"Co-existence can only work in Germany if we all speak German" and wants all immigrants to learn the language.
Maybe that should extend to the Turkish "guest workers and their families. Or the tens of thousands Merkel let in? Or just those who speak English? http://www.bbc.co.uk/…/german-minist...-people… |
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We keep being told that we need foreign workers to run our economy, however, with automation on the horizon there won't be enough jobs anyway.
If we are to allow EU migrants, refugees, economic migrants etc into our country (even those where it can be proved that they will benefit the UK holistically), the very least that we should do is make their entitlement to stay time limited whilst it suits and benefits us. In time their will not be enough jobs for those morally and legally entitled to be here, let alone anyone else. A citizens income may well have to be introduced, but it will be expensive and should be limited to certain residents to keep costs down. |
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35 Men found in 3-bedroom house in London, majority if them said to be Eastern European.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/20/rogue-...-home-6942510/ Come here for better life, yeah sure or to do very cheap Labour for a rogue employer. But forget London, this is widespread, I live next to a property where about 20 Romanians lived. They did not follow refuse rules, just chucked their crap and their babies nappies in the alleyway. They have since moved out but they left the house and outside it, a right mess, curtains with burnt holes in them, hanging out of the windows. I have said before, not against anyone coming here from afar, bringing with them skills needed for the jobs market, but I'm against this shambles, 35 men crammed in to a house. |
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The scale of fraud being committed is staggering. Does anyone seriously think the rogue landlords and any illegal tenants are paying tax, paying their way, being a net contribution to our society? That's just the start. How much benefit money is getting paid in one way or another to landlords operating premises just like this one and what do we imagine these people are using the money for or involved in? Charitable works or more criminal enterprise and exploitation? |
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Been on the news that the amount of recent immigration has contributed to the fact that we are to face a water shortage in the future.
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Yes, other reasons (including climate change) were also given for this projected water shortage.
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I can only find climate change and population growth as the factors given, not immigration.* http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44215418 Quote:
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*population growth is not just immigration. |
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One of the things I am amazed at is that with the increase in new houses being built there are no new water reservoirs being planned. Here in the south-east a water company (Southern Water) stated that if we do not get a steady winter rainfall that there will be a water shortage in the summer.... Really!
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It won't all be down to immigration, but I think a lot of it will be down to immigrants moving here and then having children. The practice of having large families (especially since the invention and provision of contraception) has reduced massively, so I don't think it will be that. ---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ---------- Quote:
Yes, those that work are making a contribution, either financially, or filling hard to fill vacancies or in skill shortage areas. However, looking at the wider picture, even those that are working still need somewhere to live, will need require NHS resources, education, ante natal care and be claiming in work benefits. ...and will be using water! I can't remember the specific country if was, but a Radio 4 programme highlighted a country that used to have water as plentiful as we currently have. When the water had to be rationed, they were reduced to having to do things to limit their water consumption e.g. - Adopting a toilet policy of 'If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown flush it down'. - Limiting the number of showers and the time taken to have one. - Putting a bucket in the shower to catch the used water to use for the toilet. - Putting containers outside to catch any rain to water plants, flush the toilet or give to pets. - Reusing water used to boil vegetables again and again. When it can no longer be used, it still isn't thrown away, it's used to water plants! I hope that we don't get to this stage over here. One thing that water companies could do is to offer to fix all leaks for free. We ourselves can take measures too, but it's not always as simple as it seems. Some people find that their shower pump stops working after a water saving head is fitted and a friend, who owns a hotel, put brick type things into his toilet cisterns. He ended up having to take them out again because the reduced water flow stopped the sewage from being carried away to the main sewer and thus caused a blockage! ---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ---------- Quote:
As a shareholder in a water company I did argue at the time that this was a very short sighted decision. |
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I agree Re: privatisation (even though I lay myself open to accusations of being hypocritical).
I can't understand why, if as claimed, we need more people in the UK, the Government is doing all it can to limit people here from having children with its benefit cuts. Surely, people should be being bribed into having children if this is the case. This was the original intention of Family Allowance (now Child Benefit). Perhaps they believe it to be better to let another country pay to raise a child and then 'import' them here as adults?? We are creating a rod for our own back by doing this with mass automation around the corner. There won't be enough work for those currently living here, let alone any more. |
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No fear!! :Yikes: ---------- Post added at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:01 ---------- Quote:
You would not get the investment in the first place without privatisation. Profits are gained through eliminating inefficient public sector practices. I'd have thought that should have sunk in by now. This left wing mantra is getting annoying now. I can only assume they don't believe it themselves and think that the more they chant it the more it will get chanted back. |
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The problem is when you just lock open the doors to hordes of people when there's not enough housing to accommodate them and when our services cannot cope with further increases in numbers. Immigration needs to be regulated or you create an unacceptable burden on the people who already live here. The problem with the EU on this issue is that it doesn't care about these practical problems, and its undemocratic nature means that it doesn't care about the impact on the population. It's the continuing failure by the EU to acknowledge this problem, let alone address it, that has caused so many people to call for immigration to be controlled, only to be called racists! My God, what a shambles. |
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Excellent post OB :tu:
I'm sure some people won't agree, but probably one of the influencing factors of the Brexit vote for many. A finite amount of resources cannot be shared efficiently among an infinite amount of people |
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I agree. From what those who voted leave say to me, this is the main reason why they did so. Not one has mentioned sovereignty etc.
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Looks like the customers always come last :( |
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Still, its the mugs in the SE that will go dry first, and they certainly aren't having any of our lovely Northern water. If they want it, they'll have to pay lots ;) |
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Never again do I want to see Romanians living in our subways and openly defecating in our parks. ---------- Post added at 22:44 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ---------- Quote:
I do hope that they somehow make it clear that this is not a permanent arrangement though. As automation takes hold for many of these unskilled jobs that they fill, we need to be able to have an exit strategy in place for them, or we will end up having to keep them once they are surplus to requirements. An alternative idea to fill any vacancies was floated today by the justice strategy: https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...david-gauke-EU |
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Yes 60% of the public must be a odd lot it seems.;)
https://news.sky.com/story/majority-...shows-11193313 |
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I also think that rail shouldn't have been privatized either but for the omnishambles it had become. I'm actually against privatizing anything that is part of the infrastructure of the nation but that then leaves the problem of unions, inefficiency, jobs for life etc. to be dealt with before those utilities can function at their best. |
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Privatisation was good because it ensured the badly needed investment that was required.
What is so sacred about water in terms of the public/private debate? The water is free - what we are paying for is the means of getting a pure supply of it to our homes and the means of disposing of the waste as sewerage. We were relying on old Victorian pipes with no public money available to replace them. That's why water was privatised. As for the railways, nobody surely who used the railways while under public sector control would want to go back to that! Pre-war trains, window frames so dirty that if you put your hand on them, you could only remove the grime with soap and water, revolting turned up sandwiches which I wouldn't feed to the birds.... Honestly, who wants that? In my part of the world, we had a two-carriage train to London, which was not well used. The fact that we now have a modern eight-carriage service with most seats taken speaks volumes for the difference privatisation has made. |
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B R pork pies.... Yes I remember those :D
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So does my stomach..... he, he, he.
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It's worked so well that even this Govt. has had to renationalise the East Coast mainline ! |
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