Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

One can't lie when there is clear medical evidence from the consultant supporting someone's medical condition..

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Which is why those with a medical condition that prevents them from working should not have to go through demeaning tests.

What is naive is just taking someone's word for it that they are not fit to work. There will always be those who try to take unfair advantage, and they make it more difficult for genuine claimants.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Medical conditions can affect people to differing degrees. Some "conditions" have no actual proof other than the word of the patient/claimant. Classic example is back pain.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well the warning signs are there for all to see and if they are not heeded then the price the government will pay will be considerable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45824590

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-like-poll-tax

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45892109

Tens of thousands of people on sickness benefits will receive backdated payments averaging £5,000 following government errors.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The warning signs are all there for the DWP and the Government given that the large-scale transfer of claimants to the new Universal Credit system will not happen until November 2020 now because if the same problems happen with Universal Credit as has happened when ESA was rolled out then it will make the ESA roll out problems look like a tea party.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

UC is a great way to cover up underpayments as it's all lumped together and not broken down into components.

I called the DWP today as I thought my son was not getting the rate of ESA he qualified for a while back.

Over an hour on hold until I got to speak with a numpty that spoke very poor English.

"Ah yes, I see the problem" after 20 minutes of explaining the situation and being told I was wrong. "The correct payment will be made at the end of the month, but arrears will take a little longer".

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It's the 'audits' that occur after the health assessor has passed the original case as acceptable that have been causing issues because it's not clear who has been doing the 'auditing' which strangely reverse what was decided at the original assessment. It's been found in some cases that the audits have removed some of the medical evidence entirely..and this has been in cases of health issues and disabilities that are progressive not regressive. I would provide a link but I'm unable to find the interview I saw on the BBC yesterday morning.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Can’t find the BBC link, but here us one from the Scottish Herald.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...tampered-with/

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Those examples are based merely on what the claimant says. Just because an assessment says "patient claims X" doesn't make it true. Eg if somebody is claiming to need prompting to prepare a meal then there has to collaborating indicators, Eg are they underweight, do they need prompting about other activities.



Auditing is a standard part of the training process for assessors. There are also other types and reasons.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Wait until you have had a decision back from the DWP, if you're not happy with the result, phone them and ask for a copy of the assessors report. Everything that went on in the assessment should be there for you to check if there's anything amiss.

Get a copy for future reference even if the outcome was a good one.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It's based on what the nurse said - from the link

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The assessor would still have ONLY been reporting what the claimant said and NOTHING more. There has to be some other indicators or proof that the claims are true, because they are things ANYBODY can say. There are matching sections in the report where the assessor has to justify what they are saying. If they are unable to properly do that, then they are pulled up on it by the audit process. The audit process works BOTH ways. If an assessor is seen to be too harsh or is not applying the rules properly, then that can also be highlighted.


Eg If the assessor states "breathlessness on exertion" and that is backed up by GP and hospital reports, 2 weeks in intensive care with double pulmonary embolism and heart failure, but later states "no problems" and justifies that with saying "not breathless when brushing teeth", shouldn't they be pulled up on that?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

My son's assessor wrote that we told him he had travelled to the center by car. But we told him we were lucky to catch the bus in time that morning. That was the first thing he said to her.

Cars, or car journeys, were never mentioned at all, either verbally or on the claim form.

And that was only the first lie on her report. The Tribunal was not happy about that at all...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l have gone to the Tribunal several times in the last 20 years Taf and made sure l was fully prepared for it by going through the assessors report with a fine tooth comb and it amazes me that once we got to the Tribunal within 5 minutes the decision was fully reversed as it showed some glaring errors in the assessors report.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The letter I sent off for Mandatory Reconsideration highlighted each and every l̶i̶e̶ inaccurate statement the assessor (or perhaps DWP staff member) had put in their report.

The Tribunal went through them one at a time, dismissing each as "total fabrication" or "prepopulated form filling" (copy and paste from other reports). This is why many assessors refuse to have their sessions recorded.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

A fortress mentality that fails benefit claimants, say MPs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...cs_uc&ns_fee=0

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

£300 fine for fiddling £20,000? It's better than working...

And does this mean that the DWP is searching social media to catch this sort of fraud?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hand-outs.html

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

More likely been grassed up.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Be interesting to know if there's any 'comeback' on these 'assesors' , if their decisions get over turned. Suspect there isn't much, and just get brownie points for the numbers they turn down. Any successfully appeals are just built into the system as I suspect most don't bother .

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

A slap on the wrist.:td:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

My daughter's DLA to PIP process is gongs as badly as expected.

Her "invitation to claim" arrived on 5th October.

I did the telephone claim for her on 8th October.

Her claim forms, dated 19th October, arrived today, 27th October.

Due back before 19th November, so under the 28 days they say you have to complete and return them.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I had the very same problem, I only had 3 weeks to complete the form. Then you get letters and text reminders as the time pressed on.

The key is to include as much evidence as possible. Get patient copies of all the letters from the hospital. Letters from your GP outlining your conditions. A personal letter from a partner (or parent in your case) on how it affect you and the claimant etc etc etc.

I sent in around 37 pages from various consultants in the end and then had the assessment (at home) which was a bit weird looking back at it. It was rushed and the assessor didn't want to listen to anything I had to say which at the time I thought would go against me. But I ended up with 18pts, and 12pts so no change to my DLA. The result came back that the assessment was conclusive to the evidence provided. So that explained the rushed assessment.

Still doesn't change the fact it was so stressful and hard going. Filling in the form took until 3 days before it had to be sent in, and I sent it in my own envelope so it could fit all the other bits of paperwork and sent it next day recorded delivery.

Good luck, just plough through it, a question or 2 a day if that what it takes. Make a full photocopy of the completed form before you send it in.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

At the assessments they won't bother much asking about matters on what they've already agreed with. At my assessment they didn't ask anything mobility related, which at first worried me until I got the results back.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l had a home assessment and they asked me several questions mobility related but as soon as they asked me to get up and try to walk she said she had seen enough.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 ----------

l can only echo much of what you have stated Peanut.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I went through it with his twin sister exactly 2 years ago. And I help people on a FB forum that formed to help people through the process. Especially when the goalposts get moved by DWP...

Now that I know how the descriptors work, we will tailor our responses to match what they are looking for, that way it'll be easier to take her case to MR or Tribunal if required.

Bl**dy stressful though, especially getting the supporting evidence in time.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If you're having problems filling the forms in and gathering information, just phone the DWP and tell them you need more time, at least a week or two more.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

3 ex-comrades were refused PIP. 2 are now "hospitalised", the other one is having a very hard time with bills. They go through the same process as civilians, with no leniency it appears.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l cannot say l am surprised at that Taf as my Dad served in the Royal Navy and fought in the Falklands and after he left the services he went down to the local DWP job centre and their attitude was appalling to say the least so much so that he vowed he would never go down there again as he felt they belittled him and humiliated him.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

After a mad scramble to get all the supporting evidence together, my daughter's PIP application form is now on its way to the DWP. Next step will be the face-to-face assessment.

I've felt sick to the stomach with anxiety the past few days, even though she qualifies according to several online questionnaires.

I noticed that the First Class Freepost envelope is now Second Class.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Did you send it recorded or signed for? Because they sometimes tend to go missing.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Signed-for of course. I've had DWP forums "disappear" before. And all scanned onto a USB stick just in case.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I can believe it. Veterans get no special treatment from the DWP whatsoever, in fact an ex soldier was sanctioned and literally starved to death by David Cameron's new benefit regime (largely unchanged by Theresa May):

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...oldier-3923771

By contrast, in America, I believe that veterans are treated with a lot more respect e.g. being allowed onto planes first, free drinks etc.

---------- Post added at 21:22 ---------- Previous post was at 21:18 ----------

Yep, if they lose the forms it's your fault!

There have been several cases where the DWP were insistent that paperwork hadn't been returned to them. The claimants were given the run around and experienced delays, had to fill in duplicates and had to go through the hassle of appealing the start date.

Then the paperwork was found within the DWP office...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Do you get copies of the face-to-face assessments?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

After the palaver with her brother's claim I most certainly will.

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 ----------

Renewal DLA claim forms for BOTH our twins "were not received". I had copies to resubmit, but the day the new forms arrived, the originals were found to have been "sent to archive" instead of to an Decision Maker.

Similarly, photocopies of my bank statements, etc., made in front of me, failed to "enter the system" and a threat was made to cease my Benefits. That took weeks to sort out despite me taking all the paperwork in for recopying as soon as I was told.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Our son's Disabled Bus Pass stopped working, so he took it for exchange at the council offices.

He was told that the criteria is PIP-and-DLA-based only now, 12 points required (cannot walk at all, can only walk up to 20 metres, must be escorted to even places he knows well). This also allows for an escort to travel free with the holder.

There are 2 other levels of PIP that they will accept at a "lower level" (cannot communicate - 8 points, and moving around - 8 points).

They do not care that his GP was the one who organised it for him (many years ago) when he was on High Mobility DLA as they have no record of that information.

The only hope he has is the one other thing that still remains, "driving licence rescinded or refused due to a condition other than alcohol or drug dependency". But so far I have waited on the DVLA's (expensive) phone line for ages only to be cut off. They should have a record of the form his doctor sent to them, stating that he was unfit to drive.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It's still happening...

Six stone man with COPD found fit for work. Despite letters from his doctors, he was forced to leave hospital to appeal against this decision:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...nsion-benefits

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Its sadly been happening for quite a while as it was Labour who first introduced ESA and the Conservatives once elected followed on from them.

When claimants are assessed its nothing more then a tick box exercise where normal human common sense goes out of the window and replaced with ruthless callousness.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It was initially a tax free payment called Invalidity Benefit. In 1993 the Thatcher Government changed it to a less generous, taxable and harder to get payment called Incapacity Benefit.

When Blair came into power in 1997, they introduced ESA and said that this would focus on what the sick & disabled can do as opposed to what they can't do.

In 2010, when Cameron became PM, he made the most savage cuts to sickness/disability benefits ever known in the past. Some people had their ESA stopped immediately, others kept it for up to a year and some have had their payments slashed by 1/3. This is the first time ever that an extra amount to help cope with the extra costs of sickness/disability has not been made to many people. Even the first incarnation of social security had provision for this in the form of 'outdoor relief' (as opposed to indoor relief- the workhouse).

In addition, Cameron introduced a 'stricter benefits regime' (including extra and more prolonged benefit sanctions) and made massive cuts to the budget for ESA, which is why we keep seeing these cases where people have been found dead after starving, this 64 year old gentleman having to leave his hospital bed etc.

May has said that she intends to look at stopping the needless repetition of tests for ESA & will look into simplifying renewal claims for PIP for the most severely disabled.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The changes (ESA and PIP) were brought about to reduce costs, including fraud. But the method has been too harsh, punishing the innocent along with the guilty. And it's costing them (us) more.

The wait for Tribunals, which often overturn the DWP's decisions, are rapidly rising. 18 months in some areas, so the DWP wants Tribunals to be switched to online. Imagine waiting 18 months to fight your case, unable to work, unable to claim Benefits, and sometimes all alone with no support, financial or emotional.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That's true, they have put sick & disabled through hell these past few years, it is costing the taxpayer more and people have had their support cut or stopped completely.

Government figures show that fraud for these benefits are less than half a per cent of all claims running live on the system. Efforts to weed out fraud have been made by every Government since Major, starting with the 'Benefits Integrity Project'. Each time, the vast amount of payments have been found to be correct, with a small number being overpaid and a small number being underpaid, so the net benefit (after administration costs) has actually cost the taxpayer more. As a result thousands of people have died, either through starvation or suicide.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34074557

Cameron then moved the goalposts and then proclaimed how many claims were not legitimate because his new rules meant people were now being disallowed their benefits on review.

I didn't realise that the backlog was so large for appeals, it's a disgrace. Figures show that appeals not carried out in the prescence of the claimant are less likely to succeed- I think that this is why this is being done.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Amber Rudd to scrap benefit reassessments for disabled pensioners in welfare shake-up.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...ments-disabled

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...port?CMP=fb_gu

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Nice bribe for people in an age group more likely to vote Conservative.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Not a chance in hell from me.:td:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Manna from heaven wouldn't satisfy you if it was handed over by a Conservative, richard.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yup, PIP costs 20% more than the DLA system it replaced for working age peoplr and it's rollout is five years behind schedule, not to mention the stress & worry brought about by the changed goalposts and abysmal administration/quality of decision making.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Over 70% have won their appeals after being rejected in their initial PIP assessment.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yep. All needless worry for the claimant and extra costs to the taxpayer.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I saw the new GP with my son for something else, and he asked if my son had a Disabled Bus Pass. I told him it had been rescinded, so he found a form and filled it out saying that my son would be refused a driving licence, and would need an escort on journeys he did not know well.

Bus Pass reissued, but it has to be renewed every single year. Plus he was told that the rules are about to change, and refusal of a driving licence may well be removed as a reason to get a Disabled Bus Pass in future.

In the meantime, his twin sister had her DLA-to-PIP assessment around Xmas. It just came back with ZERO points for ALL sections. Obviously the ex-ER Nurse had no background in Psychiatry, and even ignored the psychiatrist's letter confirming hher diagnosis and treatment.

I am preparing the Mandatory Reconsideration letter now, but expect it to be ignored, so it'll be a long wait for Tribunal again. :mad:

Quietly slipped into the news, hidden by BREXIT and Rudd's announcement to ease the pressure on OAP disabled, came the news that they want to combine PIP and Work Capability Assessments (ESA) assessments "for efficiency". To screw the disabled more quickly I say.... :mad:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-work-14089513

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Even the good news fails to be greeted by you, jfman!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Is that why Labour didn't introduce it for post-pension age DLA?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

PIP was introduced by the Tories under Cameron.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Too high as in too many won at Tribunal, or too high as in they didn't manage to put people off claiming?

A step in the right direction

So they won't screw you for PIP, or screw you for ESA, they can screw you out of both at the same time. And yet another computer system to screw up at the same time!

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...and-experience

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Knowing HMGov that will happen.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Not being religious or a Tory or Labour or Liberal voter either, damn does not leave a lot does it.:D

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It’s hardly good news that the benefit system is being skewed away from the principle of supporting who is the most in need.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

And there is the phrase behind it all, repeated over and over by Cameron.

"Most in need".

They are taking away aid for those "less in need" to give to those "most in need".

But who sets the levels of need? And does that level change?

To get the highest level of PIP Mobility (and therefore the offer of swapping that payment for a basic car) you need 12 points. So that means either....

Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.

OR

Cannot, either aided or unaided, – (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre.

So loads of people have had to hand back their Mobility cars....

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yup, they changed the goalposts from DLA and then proclaimed how many people were getting help that didn't need it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Are you actually aware of what some pensioners have to live on?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Seems to me that there are any number of claimants on more than average income that are draining the system of funds needed by the genuinely needy.

Something has to change so that the poorest in our society get the benefits that they actually need as opposed to those that see them as some kind of "top up" right for the luxuries in life.

How many times do I see the huge 4x4s and people carriers pull into the disabled bays at the local carvery to see the occupants leap gazelle like into the restaurant for a meal. :rolleyes:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It all depends what part of the country you are talking about as some pensioners have a fair bit of disposable income while others struggle to make ends meet.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

That may have been me and my family, taking my 90 year old mother-in-law (who shuffles very slowly) to Sunday dinner - strangely enough, if she is in the car with us, we are allowed to park using her Blue Badge...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

They have at least the minimum income as guaranteed by the guarantee element of pension credit and the associated passported benefits. PIP income is disregarded as part of this.

A disabled individual of working age doesn’t receive this and has to live on much less. Equally someone just over state pension age no longer qualifies for the mobility element of PIP. So you could have two individuals born on the exact same day, with the exact same medical conditions affecting their day to day lives to the exact same extent and one would retain PIP for life and the other never qualify based on the onset date of their condition.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Any current DLA/PIP entitlement when you reach pension age, continues afterwards.


Not sure what figure you're using for disabled pensioners, but the working age amount can easily add up. Eg ESA support group, plus PIP standard rate daily living, and enhanced mobility clocks up around £1,300/month. Then add housing benefit and council tax reduction.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That’s my point. Someone aged 67 who has their conditions deteriorate after state pension age wouldn’t qualify, but someone who qualified for PIP when they were 64 could retain it for life. That reads inherently unfair.

In all cases pension credit plus add ons exceeds ESA/Universal Credit plus add ons.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Same post-pension ages rules applied for DLA.



Attendance Allowance is there for care needs.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

I don’t really know why you’ve quoted my post.

The fact the same rules applied to DLA doesn’t make the system “fairer”. Attendance allowance does exist but is a lower rate than both components of PIP. My original statements on this matter hold true.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

At one time, there was only two sets of benefits for everyone- Mobility Allowance and Attendance Allowance.

Then they introduced DLA for everyone under pension age. They introduced a new lower payment for people with milder disabilities (which was scrapped when PIP was introduced). At the same time they scrapped Mobility Allowance for those not already on it after pension age.

I found it very odd to take away help with mobility for those with mobility problems arising after pension age as old age is often the time that most people become disabled as the body begins to wear out.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

People often equate being disabled with problems walking. This isn't always the case, the person you saw might have had something like terminal cancer before it had really taken hold or an invisible disability like a mental health issue.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

You’ve answered your own question: “most people become disabled as the body begins to wear out”. The costs involved would be astronomical to a group that’s already a significant spend from the public purse in pension payments. Before someone jumps in that they paid in there’s no side pot waiting to pay out pensions - it comes from the taxpayers of today.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Mobility Allowance wasn't for those over 65 and was means tested.
From Hansard
If somebody has such a severe mental health condition that they qualify, then they almost certainly shouldn't be driving.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

I think we’re missing three more likely scenarios:

1) 4x4 driver didn’t have a blue badge at all.
2) The car had a blue badge but the person entitled to the benefit wasn’t present. (Not a legitimate use of the badge but who is going to know?)
3) It’s an entirely fictional event.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

I've never known it to be means tested :confused:

We can't be sure that it was the disabled person driving though, although some conditions would still enable a person to drive, whilst others preclude this.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Pretty sure that's incorrect info on that site, or perhaps it's referring to the Motability scheme and has been transposed??

AFAIK, the principle has always been to make disability benefits tax free and not to be counted as income when calculating other benefits, so as to ensure that disabled people benefited from the extra help in full. I've never known it to be means tested.

I'll ask someone who will know, it would be interesting to find out if it was actually means tested when it started in the 1976.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

DLA and PIP are not means tested, Carers Allowance and ESA are.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

I've asked someone who is a benefits expert, he said that whilst it had some strange rules, such as being required to have 'enhanced facility for locomotion', it was never means tested.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Oops.:dunce: Just looked at the web address of the reference I used and it is for Ireland(ending .ie).

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

That explains it then :D

At least we now know that it's means tested in Ireland.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

How the DWP refers to claimants in private and sometime accidentally in public seems at odds with Amber Rudd's high opinion of DWP employees.

"in this lying bitches [sic] case"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...as-lying-bitch

The DWP argued the woman could not be disabled enough to be eligible for PIP because she drove a car, was responsible for two children, and was claiming carer's Allowance.

Only a few weeks ago Amber Rudd told us:

"Across the DWP, there is already huge commitment to helping disabled people navigate the obstacles they face. It is obvious to me that my colleagues in jobcentres and policy teams in Whitehall are in their jobs because they want to help people – and they do enormous good every day."

"I want to build a strong relationship, based on trust and mutual understanding, between work coaches and claimants"

Just to add that, depending on the circumstances, it is perfectly reasonable for someone to be a carer and disabled at the same time.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

That article refers to "cut and paste" and it was obvious in my daughter's assessment report and award letter.

And the usual lies and calculated omissions to try to make her seem not disabled at all. Total refusal to accept her psychiatrist's letter about diagnosis and treatment, in fact the letter was listed as "documents received" and never again in the whole report.

The request for Mandatory Reconsideration has been sent off, but I won't hold my breath that it will lift her from zero points. So then it'll be a long wait for tribunal.

I ended the request letter with a quote:

"As The Rt Hon Amber Rudd MP recently wrote:

"72% of PIP appeals heard found in favour of the claimant. Now that number is too high"."

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

How about reading that quote in context?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...and-experience

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

In some cases yes, but it would appear contradictory if someone was deemed to be unable to manage their own care needs (dressing, personal care, preparing meals etc) but claiming to care for another person for 35 hours per week.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

The regulations don't preclude this, but yes, it all depends on the circumstances of the people involved.

The whole culture seems to have changed at the DWP from wanting to help people, to viewing them with suspicion and contempt.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

While the regulations do not preclude this it would be a peculiar set of circumstances where someone can provide care to another person for 35 hours yet require attention throughout the day and night to support their own care needs.

I would doubt its a culture change at DWP as it is among the electorate. People voted for the benefit freeze as part of a Conservative manifesto. Reducing public expenditure has consequences.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

With DLA it was possible to have a problem in just one area, eg not being able to bend down, but with the point scoring system of PIP you are likely to need problems in several areas in order to qualify.


The emphasis with sickness and disability claims has always been that the claimant has to "prove" their claim. It would be nonsense to simply take their word for things.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

I think one of the problems is that with Incapacity Benefit and DLA many claimants ended up on benefit for years unchallenged creating a sense of entitlement.

The current system does not allow this, with periodic and regular reviews to check if conditions have improved over time with treatment.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

A sense of entitlement to some but please don't put every claimant in the same boat..

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Oh certainly not.

The amount of fraud and error in the benefit system is tiny, despite what certain newspapers portray. With appeals statistics as they are clearly something is wrong with the evidence gathering and application of the regulations.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

An example of this was in the the recent episode of "60 Days on the Streets". A "homeless" guy on the streets of London complained that his benefits had been stopped after 20 years. Further investigation found that not only was he not homeless(home in Merseyside), he had refused on principle to attend the assessment. He complained of mobility problems, but was obviously able to get from Merseyside to the streets of London.

---------- Post added at 18:43 ---------- Previous post was at 18:36 ----------

The problem with any fraud figures is they will either refer to identified fraud or estimated. Neither of those is going to be accurate. Any identified fraud figures are not going to include those not yet identified.


How many of the 28% not upheld at the Tribunal stage are fraudulent, or are marginal cases and could have gone either way, or based upon a misunderstanding of the rules.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Richard, please don’t talk bollocks.

My wife works at the DWP, and I often socialise with her work colleagues - whilst there are, like in any organisation, some horrible people, most of the people I have met have a great deal of sympathy and empathy for those claiming.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Atos and Capita are PAID large sums to collect medical evidence from GP's and hospitals. They apparently do so very rarely, relying on claimants to provide it all. So money for nothing, more profit.

And even when current medical proof is provided, they appear to ignore it altogether, just relying on their paid "medical professionals" to come up with a vindictive attack on the claimant.

Would you like a young ex-physiotherapist giving you treatment for a mental illness or disability? Or an ex- nursing auxilliary (care nurse) ?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

I’m familiar with the subject area and I’m inclined to agree that private sector involvement is a problem.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

The problem with Atos and Capita and anybody else they use from outside is very much at the root of the problem as it was a system far more trusted by all involved when it was done in house by the DWP who employed their own medical professionals rather then someone with a limited medical knowledge who knows diddly squat about the claimants medical condition to start with and the needs the claimant might have on a day to day basis because of their medical condition.

Currently the model as it is is nothing more then a tick box exercise rather then a thorough assessment it used to be when it was done in house at the DWP thus that is why we have so many that go to appeal and win their appeals because many of the individual cases are riddled with mistakes and inaccuracies to start off with.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Of course there is good and bad in any any organisation, but the organisational culture changed when David Cameron introduced his 'stricter benefits regime'.

Take a read of this:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...isabled-people

Some claimants have even been sanctioned for arriving at an appointment early, because they were afraid of being sanctioned for being late!

The DWP denied that staff had sanction targets to meet, until proof was discovered that this was an outright lie.

Oh and they now want access to peoples private medical records:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8797991.html

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

The issues were there long before 2010.

This thing about targets is the usual utter nonsense. If your performance is too far away from a certain level in EITHER direction, then it possibly needs looking at. Nothing whatsoever new about that concept. On the one hand it is easy to not hand out sanctions when you should, but also possible to hand out too many when perhaps you shouldn't.

Just imagine SNP in charge of benefits. They would be handing out English money at every opportunity.

The DWP do take on changes. That is mentioned in the annual independent reviews.

And when the DWP do that, there is constant complaints.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Wouldn't giving access to medical records provide proof to support the claim?

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

That is completely different from The "culture" in the DWP is to implement policy, not to interpret it (this is actively and strongly discouraged).

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Does not the signed declaration on the claim form give then access to that?.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

I would have thought so...

In fact, in the linked article, it states As long as privacy concerns were followed, and the patient had to authorise release of the information, it seems OK.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

Makes perfect sense to me - would be a waste of time and money to ignore a ton of useful evidence - this kind of thing happens when people take out and claim on private insurance policies but obviously need to give their consent.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

There may be instances where access to medical records would help, but on the whole, the mass of info might overwhelm decision makers and they would cherry pick entries. It will be full of medical terms and abbreviations.

Any references to what the patient/claimant has said as to how a condition affects them, doesn't carry much weight unless it is within what can be expected with that medical condition.


Often with a medical condition there is a point where nothing more can be achieved and you don't bother the GP. That seems to be taken as a negative thing and a sign that there is no problem.