Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/st...37840218292224

:(

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Rupert Murdoch as the saviour of Scotland? :rolleyes:

Will the last person out of Scotland turn out the lights in the event of a Yes win.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hold the bus. Salmond's own private polls have him in the lead. Lmao of course they do. Wonder how accurate they are!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Obviously the guessers will give old rupert abuse and tell him it's none of his business just like they do for anyone who comes out in favour of the union.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not really. I feel Yes have never addressed the fact that you'll be voting explicitly for separation and division. They've dressed it up as a americable administrative adjustment where Scotland would be richer but keep all the parts of the Union that they like. Hence the Currency Union, a single energy market (a.k.a UK-Wide subsidises for renewable energy continue), keeping the Queen, quick entry into the EU with the UK opt-outs still in place and getting rid of Trident both physically and financially (but staying protected under the NATO umbrella, for free).

It's important to know that Scotland will be a Independent country. We will not be together other than sharing a land border. The rest of the United Kingdom would be a rival economy to Scotland. We will attempt to entice businesses south of the border as Scotland tries to do likewise in tempting them North. We will attempt to rival your exports (well, we'll concede Whisky) and if, as suggested, Salmond cuts corporation tax then we may well do the same. Who would win a tax-cutting race to the bottom? The smaller country with a commitment to more public spending or the country run by Conservatives will a commitment to cut public spending?

We all lose either way.

On most logical levels Independence makes no sense. It's very costly to both Scotland and rUK. It weakens us both. Yes are winning however because they have a more hopeful and inspiration message, even if it's unlikely to be delivered, and the Unionists cannot match it.

---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------

I don't know if the story is true or Salmond is lying but they won't rig internal polls as they're used to direct the message and tactics of the campaign. You would only want to rig public polling that you pay for.

---------- Post added at 09:15 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/508691329207894016

Makes sense. Murdoch has been cryptically hinting at this. Clearly has strong ties with Salmond. Undercuts the BBC and sticks it to Westminster.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:tu: - And in a world where integration is the key splitting up a hugely sucessful union makes no sense at all.

They've promised everything and whenever challenged their plans fall apart dramatically.

There was something very telling on the news up here last Thursday or Friday. They were doing a vox pop on what would be on offer in iScotland, one woman was agreeing enthusiastically with free childcare etc. until she was told the taxpayers would be funding it.

That's what No are up against. People willing to take the good without question and any disagreement is scaremongering.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think there's a whole lot of folks in Scotland only hearing what they want to hear right now and of course Salmond's always been the embodiment of presentation over substance. I'm not sure they fully appreciate that if it all goes pear shaped there's no way back.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yougov may be closer in terms of the split between Yes and No, but that's only half the story. The other half of it is direction of travel, and Yougov has shown a very dramatic shift from No to Yes over a very short period of time, which has not been replicated by Survation or by Panelbase.

The issue of weighting is critical here, I think. Yougov has lessened the significance it attaches to voters who were born outside Scotland and this has caused the dramatic apparent fall in support for No. Whether this now makes all things equal with regards to the other polls, we won't know now until we get the actual referendum results.

I believe there is a TNS-BMRB poll coming this week. Their polls are conducted face to face, not across the internets, and are part of a wider market research project, so they may well catch a different set of opinions. It will be interesting to see whether they come up with something different than Yougov and Panelbase (and Survation?) which use a sample of internet volunteers.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I don't think they do.

My wife is Scottish and she lives here with me in England, she's engaged quite a few old friends in Scotland, and once the veneer of friendliness has worn off, it generally degenerates to 'well its nowt to do with you, you don't live here any more, you have no say - besides you don't know what you're talking about'.

Then we invariably get directed to 'Wings over Scotland' or some such comedy site.

I genuinely now think that enough Scots have been sold by the 'English oppressors' line (yes really...) that they'll vote for iScotland regardless of any consequences.

I also believe once salmonds make-it-up-as-you-go politics fall apart, it'll end up - somehow - being the English's fault again.

One things for sure though, whatever the outcome, there now exists a massive undercurrent of bad feeling between the Scottish & English people that just didn't exist before.

Than's Cameron for being a limp wristed indecisive politician... and thank YOU Blair for allowing Devolution to start this whole sorry mess starting - way to go fellas.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes I am looking forward to that poll too. Whatever happens the comfortable led to No has gone now.

The Government and Labour have been shocking over this. Only now do they think they better pay attention. In late August Westminster and the media were more interested in Clacton than Scotland. I am pretty sure losing a seat to UKIP is less disruptive than losing the entirety of Scotland. The politicians have been coming out with suggestions for policy that haven't really not helped Darling. UKIP want to hold a rally up there! Hopefully now that the prospect of Yes winning is very real they'll decline to do so. Labour have done pretty much nothing, Darling and Douglas Alexander excluded, to campaign for fear of being tagged too closely with the Tories.

All the Westminster parties need to shut up and focus on this for the next 10 days and do what they can to help which means getting more involved (Labour) or stop feeding the Yes campaign's talking points (UKIP).

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It'll be the fault of the English for not giving us whatever we want in negotiations plus a bonus.

This campaign has turned so poisonous it's untrue with NO signs being vandalised at every turn and some people if previously thought of as reasonable polluting my Facebook with David Icke level nonsense about secret oil fields that MI5 have kept quiet till someone who worked on the drilling crews mum leaked it on twitter (seriously) and having to take pens into the voting booth incase MI5 rub out the pencil marks and change their votes.

---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

We've still got the prospect of the clowns in the Orange Order staging a march in Edinburgh to look forward to which is a massive own goal for the No camp if it goes ahead.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The more information people receive over the next 10 days then the more likely the Yes campaign will succeed according to this study:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...-yes-1-3534372

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Might already have been answered, but not going back through 136 pages (being lazy).

Was a reason ever given for excluding England, Wales and Northern Ireland from this referendum? If it is going to have such a dramatic effect on the UK if Scotland leaves why was it only allowed to happen in Scotland?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Because they'll be the ones to go Independent. It's their decision. You cannot force someone out of the country or force them to say in.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Because it is not a referendum on ending the UK, despite the hyperbole in the Press this morning. It is a referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. As such, it's a decision only Scotland can make.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Is this the demographic of the scottish population now?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/09/40.jpg

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The foreign vote could swing it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...th-border.html

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's getting very dire indeed:

https://twitter.com/ian_a_jones/stat...93722219241472

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...eferendum-live

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

All to play for.

Clearly Osborne et al are now having to make offers of concessions beyond those which they had originally anticipated.

This is funny to watch.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What turn out will be needed to make it legal? What if less that 50% turn up to vote, surely you need a high turn out?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

On SKY News press preview last night they suggested, based on the postal votes submitted so far, that it's going to be the biggest turn out for any vote in Scottish history.

They way things are going this vote could be decided by a margin of as little as 30,000 votes. The future of a country decided by the slimmest of majorities. Whatever the outcome, almost half the population will not get what they want. It's going to take a long time to mend what is a country divided.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The first to get over 50% wins, no matter what the turnout is.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nope. No minimum turnout needed.

As things stand the turnout will be high 80s maybe even 90s. A lot of people who would never normally vote are for this one which could be an issue for No.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

How did it come to this...? :(

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The under 18 vote could swing it. Too young to do any of the below but somehow considered trustworthy and educated enough in life to help decide the future of a country :confused:

Vote in an election for your local councillor, MP (UK Parliament), MSP (Scottish Parliament), MEP (European Parliament).

Stand for election as a local councillor, MP (UK Parliament) or MSP (Scottish Parliament).

Earn the National Minimum Wage rate for 18-21 year olds.

Become liable to register and pay the Council Tax.

Serve as a juror.

Buy alcohol in licensed premises and consume alcohol in a bar.

Buy cigarettes & tobacco.

See any film/hire any video.

Buy or possess fireworks.

Place a bet.

Hold a credit card.

Work behind a bar.

Be tattooed.

Hire or buy a sunbed.

Be licensed to serve alcohol.

Hold a basic commercial pilot’s licence.

Hold a licence to drive a medium-sized goods vehicle.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This just reinforces my point I made earlier. Why the hell did Cameron allow such stupid things like 16 yr olds voting??? There's no precedent for it, he should have just said 'Sorry salmond baby, 18 yrs and above only' I mean what could Salmond have done.

I suppose as consolation, if it all goes wrong is Cameron gets sacked (and placed in the history books as the PM who lost Scotland), next consolation would be that the Labour inbalance is resolved.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

For me this is why the Scots should vote Yes. We can consign the Liebour party to the dustbin of politics for the next half century.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I suspect a lot of the 16 / 17 year old voters will be voting "Yes" in order to try and change these things for those coming behind them.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm not getting a sense of any anti-English feeling.... well not any more than you usually get from Salmond's loonies.
I think it's mainly disillusionment with Westminster and the politicians of all flavours. The No campaign aren't helped by some of the unofficial mouthpieces. I'm sure Boris Johnson and George Galloway (I know, I know..) have both added votes to the Yes campaign for different reasons.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I wonder if Cameron can last if they leave?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If they're anything like the 16/17 years old ones I know, they'll be voting for themselves and nobody else, and certainly not those very young or not even born yet!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The only study/ poll that I've came across suggested that most 16/17 year old voters would vote no. That was quite a while ago so that age group may well be being influenced by the upswing in optimism for what independence could bring.

In a totally unscientific poll of the 16/17 year olds in my family the results indicate a 2:1 in favour of a Yes vote. Interestingly 100% of the females intend to vote yes while the male vote was split 50:50.

The results are up to date. I conducted the poll with all 3 of them on Saturday ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I wouldn't trust the 16 year old version of myself to make any life changing decision. I thought I knew everything back then but in reality I knew nothing.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yup - A yes vote will mean that although the English may only be part of the way towards their independence, at least we'll be able to console ourselves with the notion that a whole load of Labour MP's from Scottish constituencies will no longer be having a direct input into our affairs. :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Bit late now, the Gordon Brown damage is already done!

Personally I think having Alistair Darling, an ex-labour chancellor of the exchequer who was appointed by Gordon Brown, as a representative automatically gave negative connotations towards the No group. You choose a cute likeable fluffy bunny type character, not one associated with a party that almost broke the UK financially.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think losing Scotland will rank worse in history than presiding over a banking crisis.

People are also underestimating the impact a Yes vote will have on both the Scottish and UK economies. 18 months of negotiation, the loss of oil revenue, the banking sector moving south. Sterling has already taken a hit today. It will likely continue tomorrow with the latest poll set to confirm it's neck and neck. It will hit the skids if Scots vote Yes next week. How many people have their pensions invested with a Scottish firm? Standard Life? Scottish Widows?

We're 10 days away from turmoil. The UK being torn asunder will be destabilising force than might even rival the banking crisis. You don't lose 10% of your GDP, 9% of your population and 30% of your land without consequence. This will dominate the United Kingdom for the next couple of years. The EU and UKIP will be footnotes compared to the Scottish Question. A question for which our Government doesn't appear to have prepared an answer for.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Complacency was never a good idea. They really are getting frantic now.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This is utterly mad. The Conservatives have spent the summer on their usual anti-EU infighting, UKIP and the rather more understandable distraction of ISIS. Labour have spent the Summer doing nothing even though they're probably best equipped to deal Scottish Independence. So complacent. Hell, after Clacton there were more polls about that seat than Independence until this week. :mad:

It's also insane that Scotland could leave. Scotland will live in the same economic climate as the rest of the world, they will fact the same pressures that the rest of the Western nations do. How will they afford this society they want to build? If they try to raise taxes then people can just move south. They have oil but those are already included in the per-head income and yet still spend more than they earn (as we do as well).

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Calm ;)

Anyone who believes a two thirds say no has turned into 50/50 or worse overnight needs their head examined.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's rather pathetic really.

Dread to think what they'll manage to extract from rUK either way going by the ridiculously sycophantic way Osborne et al are desperately trying to suck up to the Scots and beg them to vote no.

I'd be more inclined to vote yes on the grounds that I don't want to be ruled by such a spineless, nerveless bunch.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hello Alistair. Have you not some important damage limitation to be getting on with?

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

Agreed.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Faith is restored that Scotland will vote No, as Gordon Brown has got involved now :D

The curse of Brown!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A cautionary tale from the other side of the pond:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/op...heck.html?_r=2

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:18 ----------

TNS poll are Yes 38, No 39, DK 23 if social media speculation is to be believed.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It should simply be about membership of the union as it is now, if we have to bribe them to stay then every scot should vote yes and be done with it. Our whole political class has been pathetic during this whole process and have shown such low calibre we should get the general election early to vote the lot the lot of them out. The damage is largely done socially there is a huge dislike of each other on both sides of the border that will carry on long after this all finishes however it finishes. Ruk will take a hit if Scotland goes but not as big as Scotland will and ruk has the means to recover from it not sure the same can be said for Scotland.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You're forgetting Salmond's 'arc of prosperity'... :rofl:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What he said.

Shameful, bribing people to stay in ffs

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Consequences are too big not too at this point. I am not a massive fan of offering this so late, I would rather the Government prepare for separation in case. Still the shock and ramifications of a Yes vote are immense enough than they'll do whatever they reasonably can.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Daily Record gave it as a tie at 41% each, implying 18% don't know, but they only mentioned it in passing so it's unclear whether they had the press release yet.

Nobody else has broken the embargo so we may just have to wait until after midnight to get some clarity.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

How many elections have labour won thanks solely to Scotland?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

From the Guardian 7 minutes ago:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ent-gap-yes-no

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Scottish independence: What happens if Scotland votes yes?

"In the two-year Scottish referendum campaign, Whitehall and Westminster have been in denial about the prospect of Scotland voting Yes to independence. Suddenly, as the opinion polls show it as a very real prospect, the London-based political establishment is anxiously thinking about the implications. “The consequences, not just for England, but Wales and Northern Ireland, are frankly unimaginable,” one senior Whitehall official said today. This is not an obscure debate about more devolution: some MPs fear the peace process in Northern Ireland, or at least order on the streets, could be at risk, and that there could be new demands for a united Ireland. There would inevitably be calls for a stronger Welsh Assembly, more devolution to the English regions and even an English Parliament."

The Indy

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I decided to vote No from the start as I think it will be a disaster for Scotland. But the polls seem to be changing towards the yessers now I am getting very worried. The are cheating and lying and causing a split among the people of Scotland. I cannot understand how people cannot see through. Salmond and that they are being conned.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Simple its called selfishness they are getting told what they want to hear and not bothering to go any deeper then that all their dreams will start to come true just a day after the vote and utopia will be theirs. It's easy for the SNP they can spout whatever nonsense they want don't have to believe it or even plan to implement it just get independence. Once they have that it will be too late for Scotland to wake up and realise they were sold a pup as once out your not coming back. Damage of this campaign has not come home to roost and the rhetoric that has implemented by the SNP has not gone down well abroad at all tourism might well take a big dip as a result of all this as Scotland hasn't come across as very friendly. Granted I base that on how my friends from all over the world have spoken and its an aspect I don't think many have taken into account. Personally if enough are stupid enough to swallow the SNP rubbish they will reap what they have down.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Ditto ... I just cannot understand why people are believing Salmond. I think Yes voters are making a big mistake just my opinion.

PROUD TO BE SCOTTISH, DELIGHTED TO BE UNITED.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Someone was saying earlier that the Scots can always come back in four or five years if it doesn't work.out err says who, the go they stay gone imo

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's part of the problem. Some swaying voters are think "Och well we can give it a go and if it goes wrong we will go back" not realising this is a one way street.

A yes vote might bring prosperity and social utopia to Scotland. It's far more likely to lead to:

The EU, not EU lite that the UK has with rebates, opt outs etc. but the full on EU experience with the Euro, Schengen, no rebate, no opt outs and the kind of voice at the table that Ireland has.

A demolition of the housing market with mortgage rates shooting up and with either a CU or Euro a foreign parliament will be overseeing our budget

Huge swathes of jobs being lost in finance, ship building and other industries.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes I know its the Fail but....

It's actually quite good - regardless of your affiliatiion pro or anti

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...dependent.html

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Ain't that the truth.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What's going to happen if it is a small majority for 'No'? How soon will the SNP demand a new referendum?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sturgeon has already said within 5 years...

In reality this has been a wake up call that the protest vote against labour in the last election was a terrible idea and hopefully they won't get an absolute majority ever again.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So, it could go on until the 'Yes' win? Maybe people think if they vote 'Yes' this time they won't have to take part in a referendum again.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If no wins this is just going to drag on and on and given yes appears to have a boost the anti English rhetoric will continue. I'm really hoping its yes now because I don't believe a no win would be decisive enough to end this issue.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Isn't there talk of Salmond wanting another vote if this result is a narrow win for the No vote?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There is an absolute guarantee of it, but he won't have the legal authority to do so and won't be able to argue that he should be given that authority again unless he wins an outright majority at the Holyrood election in 2016.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Interesting interview with Pat Cox, former EU president..

Blows some of the BT assertions about the EU out of the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9NcuGVtGfY

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Interesting. And again the Ireland / Northern Ireland / UK relationship regarding borders (or lack thereof) as a precedent is mentioned.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

My first and only post on the subject as I've only followed this thread loosely, if I'm being selfish I'd vote No, but I would need to do a lot of research to make a proper decision.

What I have found is it seems those that have made up their minds right from the start tend to walk around with their fingers in their ears shouting LA LA. Everyone else is wrong apart from them.

Looking back from the first couple of pages, it is quite comical in the way things have changed, from 'it'll never happen blah blah blah' to 'Oh Poop, everyone's a numpty'.

If I was Scottish, I don't think this forum would make the slightest bit of difference in the info or the way I would vote.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Generally speaking most discussions on CF don't accurately reflect the general population... this one is certainly no different ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think I will move to Scotland if the folks vote Yes, just so that I can get away from the Tory Downton Abbey Syndrome that exists here in England!

Some papers have headlines like:
Will Another Royal Baby Save the Union... I think not.

Waiting for the English Republic to Return... long wait me thinks.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm still leaning towards voting no. I must admit though, that I'm kind of enjoying the squirming that Cameron, Miliband and Clegg are now having to do having taken the outcome for granted for so long. They'll all be in Scotland tomorrow but canvassing separately. Wouldn't they be better together :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not if Cameron's singing is anything to by :D
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flxQCmb5oY

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Potential for ‘deep recession’ if Scotland goes solo

http://www.ftadviser.com/2014/09/09/...P/article.html

Not Westminster, Not Better Together, but Credit Swiss.

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:19 ----------

Here is a good, balanced, article about the issue: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-key-questions

and as for borders:

Read the whole article however. It's good.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes, these are the known knowns and the known unknowns but we also have the unknown unknowns to paraphrase Rumsfeld. ;)

For example, it may be not too long in the future that the influence of UKIP will force an EU referendum on Europe. That off course will affect Scotland no matter what the result of the independence referendum. If the vote is Yes the current currency debate may be moot, if rUK decides to vote for it's own independence from Europe.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Currency won't be moot. UK will use Sterling. Freedom of movement with the EU and trade will be issues.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The poster boy of "Better together". What's not to like? https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/09/39.jpg

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If scotland go their own way, then join the EU while we vote to get leave, will we have to build a big fence between us and scotland to stop them all coming over the borders? Bit like they have between mexico and america.

Could be good money to be made in smuggling tunnels :)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's all getting a but desperate, can't believe the three stooges have canceled pmq's to go up there on bended knee.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No doubt it'll get funnier / worse / more cringeworthy as the day progresses.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

How do you smuggle tunnels? :confused:


;)

---------- Post added at 08:23 ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 ----------

I must say Miliband's idea of flying Saltires around England is likely to go down well. I mean loads of us English folks will have them lying around in cupboards and for those few who don't, well the shops are always full of them south of the border. I was in our local high street only yesterday and Saltires were readily available and selling like hotcakes... :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I know it's funny in a way but it also shows how detached he is from what the reality is here in Scotland.
We have a percentage of dedicated Nats who will vote Yes no matter what. We have a percentage of Unionists who will vote NO, no matter what.
We have a percentage of voters who are not convinced by the Yes argument and intend to vote No
We have a percentage of voters who not convinced by the BT argument and intend to vote Yes

Then there's people like me, sitting on the fence with a week to go. We're the ones who will make the decision and many of us are having, or trying to have an intelligent discussion about this. Possibly the most important vote that any of us have cast.
Distractions that insult our intelligence are likely to probe the stubborn, rebellious psyche of our Scottish nature and push us off the fence into the Yes camp.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

'Twas ever thus. ;)

If I were sitting on the fence I'd be looking at which vote represented the biggest risk. There's no doubt in my mind that 'Yes' represents a very big risk indeed. That's just my opinion though and as an Englishman I hope it doesn't push you the 'wrong' side of the fence... ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Looking at the major parties in Westminster.
Tories - want to keep the Union, it's part of what they stand for
Socialists - want to keep the Union, they have large support base in Scotland, doesn't bode well if YES wins.

So what are they gaining by what they are doing? They have to show interest and if they believe we are better as the UK they can outline those concerns. Then they should leave the people of Scotland to debate and decide. They more they speak out it seems the more they push the undecided to the YES camp, no-one likes to be told what to do by "outsiders".

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Dat true dat :)

If they only had listened earlier. If the referendum had included a 3rd option for devo-max then the threat of breaking up the Union wouldn't be there. Even now they can't agree on what increased powers, if any, they'd be willing to devolve to Scotland.

This is now reminding me of the divorce I went through about 15 years ago. Belatedly, my then wife, realised that I wasn't bluffing and she suddenly did want to listen to what I had to say. When the mind is made up you got to go, then you've got to go.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They're hardly "outsiders". All of their parties have people that voted for them in the last elections for Holyrood and Westminster.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The polls seem to show a very close 50/50 split, so whatever vote wins will leave about half the population upset, and that won't be a happy outcome.

I know a few Scottish families that will be torn in 2.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Scottish Conservatives, Scottish Labour and the Scottish Libdems have their own leaders. It might have been less damaging to BT to have them lead from the front rather than the Westmister 3. It could backfire.

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to defend the BT tactic of flooding us with Westminster politicians today.

A yes supporting colleague just showed me a clip of John Prescott. After suggesting that England and Scotland should join forces on the football pitch to beat the Germans:disturbd: (tongue in cheek I know but still went down like a lead balloon).. he then went on to slate the Tories for ripping our family apart...:erm: it's not party politics now John :confused: they're on your side!

From having a few healthy discussions so far this week. today is like the circus has came to town.

I'm beginning to think this is all a cunning plan to get rid of us but make it look like it's our own choosing.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

First conspiracy theory lol

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That maybe, but like it or not, Scotland is currently still part of the UK, and those three are still the leaders of those parties. I don't like the "team Scotland" term that's being used by the Yessers at the moment. Do they think that the No voters don't care about Scotland as they're not in their "team"?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Frankly I've lost all interest..

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Personally, I think that while a certain group of very proud and Nationalistic Scots would welcome a Yes vote, and it would probably be very good for Salmond's political career (after all, if his seat isn't safe now, I'd wager it will be if he manages to portray a Yes vote as a way of beating the English), I've done some research on this and I don't think a Yes vote would be good for Scotland as a country.

Why? a few reasons..

1) While they may not have to set up as much of an infrastructure as the UK government has said, they will need to set up some infrastructure. After all, do they have an equivalent of the Inland Revenue or HMRC for tax collection? Both IR and HMRC probably have regional offices in Scotland, but how much control infrastructure do they have? When the Scottish Government needs to deal with either department (say to set taxes), they would need a head office to deal with. This is going to cost money to set up. Even if they use the offices in London, I'll bet that those offices will charge for the privilege. After all, Scotland would be no longer part of the UK, so the government may well demand they pay for their use of UK facilities.

2) Finance. Thanks to North Sea oil, Scotland could be a very wealthy nation. Sadly, North Sea oil is going to run out sooner rather than later. How are the Scottish Government going to finance their plans. It's not as if they'll be able to go to London for a grant, and any loan will need to be paid back.

3) Economy size. In this day and age of globalisation, it's an unfortunate fact that for a country to prosper, it needs the support of the multinational companies. They currently look at the UK and see a country offering easy entry to Europe (in terms of business), a solid (if depleted) manufacturing base and a financial system that, in spite of it's size, is considered to be very powerful on the world markets. What are they going to see when they look at Scotland? A country with a good supply of new tech companies (which helps), a good engineering reputation and little else as far as I can see?

Now,when I post this, I don't mean to patronise or insult either Scotland or any Scot, but I genuinely don't see how becoming their own country will benefit Scotland. As I said, I can see the benefit to Alex Salmond, and I can see the attraction.

There is also the risk that outside investors could become nervous about the future of the Union as a whole as a result of this. Nervous investors are bad, because they tend not to invest. They also, if they have currency, have a tendency to sell it, which will lower our exchange rates. A lack of investment and a sudden rush to sell the Pound could push both Scotland and the rest of the UK into a very deep recession. Something that will negatively affect *everyone* regardless of whether they believe Scotland should be a separate country or not.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It will be all over by next Friday barring a very close vote for no, when a re-run will be asked for.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You should have changed banks... :)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hopefully 'lessons will be learned' if there's a repeat session in 5 yrs or so.

#1 DON'T LET IT LINGER, the last 4 months were completely pointless and has only really served to poison any good will between the two points of view because the whole 'debating' went on for too long.

#2 If you're going to offer DEVO MAX at the end, to avoid looking totally STUPID offer it at the start...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Seems to me that toxic team Westminster is likely to sway more Scots to vote yes.

The sight of all three "Leaders" singing from the same songsheet but for their own selfish reasons is :sick:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The Union is one week from being torn apart. They have to do something. Sitting back and letting Salmon rule the airwaves and the debate is not an option.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The No campaign's six-point lead as measured by Survation, just won't go away:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/in...record-4196976

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Very true but it's a totally unedifying experience. I'm not sure deploying Gordo was wise.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It looks bonkers from an English perspective, but he is still highly respected amongst the key West of Scotland, Labour-voting demographic that is likely to swing the result one way or the other.

Remember in 2010 at the General Election, Labour's vote held up perfectly well in Scotland.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Labour can win this thing. It's their voters who are switched and there are a lot of them. Bring some of them back will win it.

Is Blair toxic in Scotland?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Could we then end up with a S.R.A Scottish Republican Army i hope not. :shocked:

---------- Post added at 19:12 ---------- Previous post was at 19:08 ----------

Blair should be classed as toxic anywhere he turns up.