Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Cabinet Minister Michael Gove has defended his plans for new post-Brexit border infrastructure after Labour said the government was unprepared.
A £705m funding package to help manage Britain's borders has been announced as the UK prepares to leave the EU customs union at the end of the year.
...
The UK left the EU on 31 January and is now in an 11-month transition period, during which existing trading rules and membership of the customs union and single market apply.
What the UK's relationship with the EU will look like when the transition period ends will depend on whether a trade deal is reached.
Northern Ireland will continue to follow some EU rules on agricultural and manufactured goods even after the transition period.

The original "oven ready" reference was JUST about the the Transition Deal. That has been signed, sealed, and delivered, ie cooked.
Link

Quote:

With a new Parliament and a sensible majority
Government, we can get that deal through
in days. It is oven-ready - and every single
Conservative candidate at this election, all 635
of them, have pledged to vote for this deal as
soon as Parliament returns.

So NOT about border controls or after the deal ends.

1andrew1

12-07-2020 23:24

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36043288)

Link
The original "oven ready" reference was JUST about the the Transition Deal. That has been signed, sealed, and delivered, ie cooked.
Link
So NOT about border controls or after the deal ends.

"With a new Parliament and a sensible majority Government, we can get that deal through in days" per www.conservativehome.com

So why haven't they? Instead, they are spending millions on no-deal preparations which would be unnecessary if the deal was actually as oven ready as Boris Johnson told us it was.

Carth

13-07-2020 00:53

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

So why haven't they??

They already have, and it ends on 31 December 2020.

Hugh	13-07-2020 08:37

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36043292)

So why haven't they??

They already have, and it ends on 31 December 2020.

But that oven ready deal is now being amended, because the ERG don’t like it (even though they voted for it) - "No Deal’" isn’t a deal...

The ERG’s in-house newspaper states

Quote:

A source close to the UK chief negotiator David Frost has said that the deal signed in January has “unfair defects” which Mr Johnson’s government did not have time to remedy but which Britain has now brought back to the table.

So, because BJ/DC set an unrealistic timescale to get the WA & PD signed, it was "defective" (whilst at the same time being "oven ready")?

Carth

13-07-2020 10:16

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36043301)

But that oven ready deal is now being amended, because the ERG don’t like it (even though they voted for it) - "No Deal’" isn’t a deal...

oh, I must be behind the times (probably an age thing), but I thought the 'transition period' still ended Dec 31st?

No matter though, everything is up in the air at the moment ;)

nomadking

13-07-2020 10:54

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36043301)

But that oven ready deal is now being amended, because the ERG don’t like it (even though they voted for it) - "No Deal’" isn’t a deal...

The ERG’s in-house newspaper states

So, because BJ/DC set an unrealistic timescale to get the WA & PD signed, it was "defective" (whilst at the same time being "oven ready")?

Still not seeing that anything is a change to the existing Withdrawal Agreement. Just on things that might be improved for the future.
From your link.

Quote:

As an example, they highlighted a problem over geographical indications (GIs) which have come up in the negotiations.
GIs are used to identify a product as originating in a particular country or region where its quality, reputation or other characteristic is linked to its geographical origin – such as Scottish whisky and salmon.
The UK team has made proposals to improve the arrangements in the Withdrawal Agreement with more balanced arrangements ensuring appropriate protection because EU GIs are protected in the Withdrawal Agreement, but UK GIs are not.

The negotiations are about the future, ie not the Withdrawal Agreement and not this year. Little point trying to renegotiate anything that would only apply for less than 5 months.:rolleyes: After the WA ends, what should happen? From that, currently UK GIs are not protected during the WA. The aim is, for after the period of the WA, that UK GIs are recognised. Rather than sticking with the current arrangement for something, if in the longer term that isn't desirable, why not seek to change it for the future? Perhaps the text of the article should have more correctly said "The UK team has made proposals to improve ON the arrangements in the Withdrawal Agreement". Basically we cannot change how UK GIs are treated for this year, but CAN try to change that from next year onwards.

1andrew1

13-07-2020 11:31

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36043301)

Looks like the Government has still failed to understand the basic lesson that unrealistic deadlines result in bad deals. :dunce:

nomadking

13-07-2020 11:44

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36043324)

Looks like the Government has still failed to understand the basic lesson that unrealistic deadlines result in bad deals. :dunce:

The "badness" came from the previous negotiators, ie May et al. They had years. The choice was for that temporary, interim deal or nothing at all.

Negotiations on the next stage couldn't start until after the WA came into force and we had left the EU.

Even if the issue(UK geographical indications) raised in that article had been fully addressed at the time, it would still need addressing for the future. The problem with accepting a "bad deal" is related to how long that deal applies. If the EU was allowed to get away with this in the deal for the future, then it would be fixed for eternity, not just for less than a year.

RichardCoulter

13-07-2020 11:51

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36043270)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53375713

Looking at this issue alone, how much are we expected to save each year (contributions, less grants we get back). I'm wondering how many years this amount will be negated to pay the £705m that this new border system will cost.

ianch99

13-07-2020 12:00

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36043259)

I was half asleep earlier, might even have dreamt it, did Gove say we are going to spend hundreds of millions on border controls? Weren't we told over and over that there was no need for them

You were dreaming. After all, we were promised:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EckTD3AXoAEo2o8?format=jpg

1andrew1

13-07-2020 12:10

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36043328)

As has been acknowledged, there is no saving. The greater costs, reduced market access and lower economic growth will be greater than the budgetary contributions. The perceived benefit is in being able to make more of our own decisions.

Hugh	13-07-2020 14:00

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36043321)

Still not seeing that anything is a change to the existing Withdrawal Agreement. Just on things that might be improved for the future.
From your link.
The negotiations are about the future, ie not the Withdrawal Agreement and not this year. Little point trying to renegotiate anything that would only apply for less than 5 months.:rolleyes: After the WA ends, what should happen? From that, currently UK GIs are not protected during the WA. The aim is, for after the period of the WA, that UK GIs are recognised. Rather than sticking with the current arrangement for something, if in the longer term that isn't desirable, why not seek to change it for the future? Perhaps the text of the article should have more correctly said "The UK team has made proposals to improve ON the arrangements in the Withdrawal Agreement". Basically we cannot change how UK GIs are treated for this year, but CAN try to change that from next year onwards.

Perhaps you need to direct that question to David Frost, the Head of the UK’s negotiating team, as he’s the one who think’s there are defects in the existing Withdrawal Agreement...

Quote:

Or you could ask BJ

Quote:

However, the source also made it clear that the Prime Minister wants “defects” in the Withdrawal Agreement itself, made by his predecessor Theresa May and her chief negotiator Olly Robbins, to be fixed.

Also, got to love the way No. 10 are now trying to spin the WA as "Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement" - I’m sure it was BJ’s "oven ready agreement" when it went to the country / Houses of Parliament...

As BJ said 3 weeks before the Election

Quote:

We’re going to get Brexit done with a deal that is pre-cooked, ready to go, oven-ready as I keep saying, approved not just by our friends in the EU but by every single one of the 635 Conservative candidates standing at this election

TheDaddy

13-07-2020 15:47

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36043330)

You were dreaming. After all, we were promised:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Who'd have thought the brexit dividend would amount to a 27 acre lorry park, it should be named Farage's garage in his honour, still I'm sure the people that live there, basically huge swathes of Kent, are happy with this, they knew what they were voting for after all

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