Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Our tenure within the EU is a fine example of that.

On all sides, it certainly is. But as we have left, the EU wish to protect their interests and us ours. That was always going to happen.

We need to find a way were both parties walk away thinking they have done well, that is the art of negotiation.

So your statement that

Quote:

only a fool would try find a way to delay trade or make it harder.

Is false.

“Complete bullshit” is I think your preferred parlance.

Delayed trade and stifling trade is the main objective of protectionism. Trade where it suits, restrict where it doesn’t.

Sephiroth

02-07-2020 11:37

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36041963)

<SNIP>

You are failing to consider the relativity of your perspective, which is understandable. You assume that the Conservative Party's moral and social compass has remained constant and all that has happened is that the Party has been persuaded of the merits of a Hard Brexit. What has in fact happened is that the Party has moved appreciably to the right, driven by Brexit zealotry.

Compared to the Tory Party of the 50's & 60's, this version is a pale but dangerous imitation ..

No - that's not right. I'm a constant factor in the Conservative Party, pro EU in 1995 and recently (late oughties) turned anti when their intention to form into a single state became open policy (ever closer union).

The Party of the 50s/60s is a total irrelevance and I'm surprised you bring that into play. Your perspective is entirely one of a Remainer with disregard for the Referendum and GE result.

All we want now is a fair trade deal with the EU and common sense over there might yet prevail.

Pierre

02-07-2020 12:02

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36041978)

So your statement that

Is false.

No, I said they should find a way were both parties can do well

Quote:

“Complete bullshit” is I think your preferred parlance.

Wrong again, I think you find it's "complete bollocks" , much less uncouth.

Quote:

Trade where it suits.

Isn't that just trade? I've never bought anything I didn't want or paid too much for, and neither have I sold anything less than its worth.

1andrew1

02-07-2020 13:12

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36041838)

Why on earth would Boris be "happy ...."? That is unqualified prejudice.

I'll qualify it then - he did say "F---- business."

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36041940)

Judging the moment when to balance the comments is a handy art. It converts a one sided projection into one that reasonably makes allowance for other possibilities.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

What is your perspective on this? What do you mean by "divide" and what is the consequence to the country of this perceived "divide"?

I've been a Conservative Party member since 1983 with no self-made wealth and nothing inherited (then not massive) until 8 years ago.

The only divide I've noticed is pro-EU & anti-EU. Back in 1995, the "divide" was such that when John Redwood challenged John Major for leadership of the party, his Leave wing only amounted to 27% of the 307 voted MPs.

25 years later, John's got his wish and my sense of the party as a whole (but of course I haven't met them all) is that we are united in the current track.

The British electoral system means the two main parties have a broad church of opinions which in other countries would form separate political parties. We've seen this with Jeremy Corbyn and Sir Keir Starmer - two distinct Labour Parties.
The Conservative Party is home to traditional free traders who might have voted Whig back in the day. So, that's people like Margaret Thatcher, pro-privatisation and free trade.
It's also home to the traditional landowners, family companies etc who favour a more protectionist approach and are not so against state intervention. That's represented by the current Government.
Of course, it's far more nuanced than this but I've already drifted off topic. ;)

1andrew1

07-07-2020 20:03

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

2018: 1andrew1. If the UK leaves the Customs Union and Eire remains in it, you can't have a seamless border between Northern Ireland and Eire as well as between Northern Ireland and GB . Something has to give. The EU has offered a solution that NI remains in the Customs Union which effectively puts a border down the Irish Sea.

2018: Protagonist. Don't be so damn realistic, sorry pessimistic! There's some new untested unicorn technology being offered by the team behind the NHS National Programme for IT. It will be world-beating. You just need to believe more. Wait and see!

2019. Boris Johnson. No border in the Irish Sea as a result of my Brexit deal. Trust me. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50430815

2020: Application for border posts at ports sent to EU https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northe...m3=BBC+News+NI

1andrew1

08-07-2020 19:58

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

More half-baked plans than oven-ready ones!

Quote:

EXCLUSIVE: Liz Truss, the UK's international trade secretary, privately raised deep concerns about Prime Minister Boris Johnson's Brexit border plans in a letter leaked to Business Insider.

While Britain is set to leave European Union trading rules at the end of the year, the UK has announced that full border controls on goods will not come into effect until next July.
In a letter to other senior Cabinet figures on Wednesday, Truss said the plans could lead to smuggling from the EU and face a legal challenge from the World Trade Organisation.
She wrote to Rishi Sunak, the chancellor of the exchequer, and Michael Gove, the chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, setting out four key concerns about the plans.
Truss also said the plans could break international trading rules and harm the UK's reputation at the WTO.
A government representative said: "We do not comment on leaks."

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-liz-truss-letter-boris-johnson-brexit-border-plans-concerns-risks-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

1andrew1

12-07-2020 12:51

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Pesky Commonwealth country refuses to accept that it needs us more than we need it!

Quote:

Brexit blow: Canada refuses to roll over EU trade deal for UK - trade officials ‘furious’
Britain has insisted Canada roll over CETA, even in the event of a no deal Brexit, but the North American country is awaiting the outcome of any further talks between London and Brussels before making a final decision, a source at the Department for International Trade told BuzzFeed News. The same source told the news website British trade officials are “furious” at the embarrassing rejection, having spent the best part of a year trying to convince Canada to extend CETA.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-brexit-latest

Chris

12-07-2020 13:53

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

The UK's final relationship with the EU is a material consideration for the Canucks as they consider the extent to which they can drop trade barriers with us. This is hardly surprising.

Hugh	12-07-2020 14:02

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36043242)

Pesky Commonwealth country refuses to accept that it needs us more than we need it!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-brexit-latest

Quote:

By PAUL WITHERS
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Thu, Jul 4, 2019 | UPDATED: 13:14, Thu, Jul 4, 2019

1andrew1

12-07-2020 14:26

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Oops, well at least it was in July. :dunce::

TheDaddy

12-07-2020 16:14

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

I was half asleep earlier, might even have dreamt it, did Gove say we are going to spend hundreds of millions on border controls? Weren't we told over and over that there was no need for them

Maggy

12-07-2020 19:16

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53375713

Quote:

Cabinet Minister Michael Gove has defended his plans for new post-Brexit border infrastructure after Labour said the government was unprepared.

A £705m funding package to help manage Britain's borders has been announced as the UK prepares to leave the EU customs union at the end of the year.

Mr Gove insisted the government had been "laying the groundwork for months".

But Labour's Rachel Reeves said the plans were "too little, too late."

The funding announcement follows a leaked letter from International Trade Secretary Liz Truss raising concerns about the readiness of Britain's ports.

Under the plans, new border posts will be created inland where existing ports have no room to expand to cope with the extra checks that will be required.

It relates only to the external borders of England, Scotland and Wales. Mr Gove told BBC's Andrew Marr programme that more details will be set out about the situation for Northern Ireland "later this month".

denphone

12-07-2020 19:26

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36043259)

I was half asleep earlier, might even have dreamt it, did Gove say we are going to spend hundreds of millions on border controls? Weren't we told over and over that there was no need for them

Were we not told everything was oven ready...;)

nomadking

12-07-2020 19:34

Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36043271)

Were we not told everything was oven ready...;)

Where and about WHAT precisely.

Quote:

What the UK's relationship with the EU will look like when the transition period ends will depend on whether a trade deal is reached.