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OLD BOY 23-06-2020 16:35
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36040880)
The trouble with doing it in stages is that there would be an inevitable gap from 1st January to when the next bit of the deal is concluded. This could mean that Japanese buyers go elsewhere and don't return to the UK suppliers when the deal is done.


Our current position with Japan is only there by virtue of the EU and ends on 31 December. Boris has said he won't entertain an extension past this date which would protect our position.
I wasn’t suggesting a Brexit extension, Andrew!

Pierre 23-06-2020 17:06
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
In a post Covid world all economies are under pressure, only a fool would try find a way to delay trade or make it harder.

1andrew1 23-06-2020 21:28
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36040924)
I wasn’t suggesting a Brexit extension, Andrew!
I thought you'd seen the light, Old Boy! What are you hoping Japan will do?
Japan won't just grant us the great deal we have at the moment and then negotiate down a worse one! It will compel us to start from ground zero and build up from that.

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36040932)
In a post Covid world all economies are under pressure, only a fool would try find a way to delay trade or make it harder.
Not extending the current deal does exactly as you describe - it makes trade harder and only a fool would do such a thing. Unfortunately, he happens to hold the keys to No. 10.

pip08456 23-06-2020 22:05
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36040982)
I thought you'd seen the light, Old Boy! What are you hoping Japan will do?
Japan won't just grant us the great deal we have at the moment and then negotiate down a worse one! It will compel us to start from ground zero and build up from that.
The point you conveiently miss is that the 6 weeks deadline is only for it to be ratified this year. It is not a 6 weeks or no deal.

If they can't come to an agreement in 6 weeks they carry on and it can be ratified early next year.

1andrew1 01-07-2020 09:50
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Sadly, I think BoJo only has ears for Cummings so is happy to throw British business under the bus.
Quote:
Johnson warned by business on ‘hugely damaging’ no-deal Brexit
Letter signed by more than 100 company chiefs and entrepreneurs signals renewed concern over EU talks
More than 100 UK company chiefs, entrepreneurs and business groups have written to the prime minister warning that it would be “hugely damaging” to the economy if Britain leaves the EU without a deal at the end of this year. The letter — written on the deadline by which the UK could have requested an extension to the transition period with the EU — says that a no-deal outcome would result “in more people out of work and lower living standards”. Businesses “simply do not have time or capacity to prepare for big changes in trading rules by the end of the year — especially given that we are already grappling with the upheaval caused by coronavirus”, it added.
“This is not a call to reopen old divisions about remaining or leaving. The government must now deliver for us all, and on their promise to get a good deal, not a bad deal, and definitely not a no deal,” said Jürgen Maier, former chief executive of Siemens UK, who helped write the letter.
https://www.ft.com/content/e4da78ae-...1-d3841cc0e005

Somewhat more convincing than Mark Francois' recent comedic effort.
https://www.indy100.com/article/mark...er-erg-9592926

Sephiroth 01-07-2020 09:55
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36041837)
Sadly, I think BoJo only has ears for Cummings so is happy to throw British business under the bus.

https://www.ft.com/content/e4da78ae-...1-d3841cc0e005

Somewhat more convincing than Mark Francois' recent comedic effort.
https://www.indy100.com/article/mark...er-erg-9592926
Surely there's room somewhere in your critique for "Let's hope that the negotiations bring in a sensible deal".

Why on earth would Boris be "happy ...."? That is unqualified prejudice.

papa smurf 01-07-2020 10:16
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36041838)
Surely there's room somewhere in your critique for "Let's hope that the negotiations bring in a sensible deal".

Why on earth would Boris be "happy ...."? That is unqualified prejudice.
It's what we've come to expect from this poster.

Carth 01-07-2020 12:03
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
More than 100 UK company chiefs, entrepreneurs and business groups . . . .
More than 100, less than 110 . . 115. . 120?

Drop in the ocean when you look at ALL the company chiefs, entrepreneurs and business groups in the UK.

Oh, couldn't be bothered to read yet another FT article whining about leaving the EU, so no idea how many of this 'more than 100' are owned/part owned by foreign chappies ;)

1andrew1 01-07-2020 13:08
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36041838)
Surely there's room somewhere in your critique for "Let's hope that the negotiations bring in a sensible deal".

Why on earth would Boris be "happy ...."? That is unqualified prejudice.
That's what we all hope, it doesn't need adding to every post.

There's always been a divide in the Conservative Party between self-made wealth (Thatcherism, free trade) and inherited wealth (protectionism, state punts in areas like OneWeb). The latter approach tends to be worse for business.

Sephiroth 01-07-2020 21:38
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36041882)
That's what we all hope, it doesn't need adding to every post.

There's always been a divide in the Conservative Party between self-made wealth (Thatcherism, free trade) and inherited wealth (protectionism, state punts in areas like OneWeb). The latter approach tends to be worse for business.
Judging the moment when to balance the comments is a handy art. It converts a one sided projection into one that reasonably makes allowance for other possibilities.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36041882)
That's what we all hope, it doesn't need adding to every post.

There's always been a divide in the Conservative Party between self-made wealth (Thatcherism, free trade) and inherited wealth (protectionism, state punts in areas like OneWeb). The latter approach tends to be worse for business.
What is your perspective on this? What do you mean by "divide" and what is the consequence to the country of this perceived "divide"?

I've been a Conservative Party member since 1983 with no self-made wealth and nothing inherited (then not massive) until 8 years ago.

The only divide I've noticed is pro-EU & anti-EU. Back in 1995, the "divide" was such that when John Redwood challenged John Major for leadership of the party, his Leave wing only amounted to 27% of the 307 voted MPs.

25 years later, John's got his wish and my sense of the party as a whole (but of course I haven't met them all) is that we are united in the current track.

jfman 02-07-2020 08:15
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36040932)
In a post Covid world all economies are under pressure, only a fool would try find a way to delay trade or make it harder.
You’re making the false assumption that international trade = good for the economy. It’s good for some economies, for others it’s just haemorrhaging money and skilled jobs.

The point of Brexit is to get trading conditions more favourable to us. Similarly, the USA is running around trying to get trade deals more beneficial to it.

This isn’t about reducing trade barriers at all. It’s about protectionism.

ianch99 02-07-2020 08:45
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36041962)
The point of Brexit is to get trading conditions more favourable to us
Not quite right: the point is to get conditions favourable to a small but powerful elite. For the majority of the country, it will be unfavourable on many levels.

The double whammy here (or triple if you count Covid) is that the people how are attempting to pursue this mission are part of this incompetent Vote Leave Government. So we are left with the equation to pursue a flawed mission implemented by idiots.

That's going to go well ..

---------- Post added at 08:45 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36041940)
The only divide I've noticed is pro-EU & anti-EU. Back in 1995, the "divide" was such that when John Redwood challenged John Major for leadership of the party, his Leave wing only amounted to 27% of the 307 voted MPs.

25 years later, John's got his wish and my sense of the party as a whole (but of course I haven't met them all) is that we are united in the current track.
You are failing to consider the relativity of your perspective, which is understandable. You assume that the Conservative Party's moral and social compass has remained constant and all that has happened is that the Party has been persuaded of the merits of a Hard Brexit. What has in fact happened is that the Party has moved appreciably to the right, driven by Brexit zealotry.

Compared to the Tory Party of the 50's & 60's, this version is a pale but dangerous imitation ..

papa smurf 02-07-2020 08:45
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36041963)
Not quite right: the point is to get conditions favourable to a small but powerful elite. For the majority of the country, it will be unfavourable on many levels.

The double whammy here (or triple if you count Covid) is that the people how are attempting to pursue this mission are part of this incompetent Vote Leave Government. So we are left with the equation to pursue a flawed mission implemented by idiots.

That's going to go well ..
Amazing how the bitter taste of defeat is still on your lips.

ianch99 02-07-2020 09:13
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36041965)
Amazing how the bitter taste of defeat is still on your lips.
Bless

Pierre 02-07-2020 09:49
Re: [Updated] The UK’s future relationship with the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36041962)
You’re making the false assumption that international trade = good for the economy. It’s good for some economies, for others it’s just haemorrhaging money and skilled jobs.
Our tenure within the EU is a fine example of that.

Quote:
This isn’t about reducing trade barriers at all. It’s about protectionism.
On all sides, it certainly is. But as we have left, the EU wish to protect their interests and us ours. That was always going to happen.

We need to find a way were both parties walk away thinking they have done well, that is the art of negotiation.


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