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-   -   Crisis in the NHS (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704264)

RizzyKing 11-06-2017 18:26
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
I do love the response of "forget the past it's about the future" which of course benefits labour as they were responsible for more privatisation then the conservatives in the past and would do it again in the future because PFI fits right in with the labour philosophy of deliver now, pay later so the past is relevant because labour will repeat it. As long as there are muppets who will keep supporting labour it won't change because they just delude themselves that only the tories are a threat to the NHS.

denphone 11-06-2017 18:33
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35902875)
I do love the response of "forget the past it's about the future" which of course benefits labour as they were responsible for more privatisation then the conservatives in the past and would do it again in the future because PFI fits right in with the labour philosophy of deliver now, pay later so the past is relevant because labour will repeat it. As long as there are muppets who will keep supporting labour it won't change because they just delude themselves that only the tories are a threat to the NHS.
l think you will find again that both parties are as culpable as each other as it would be nice for once that the NHS was not used as a political football which sadly both parties use it as..

1andrew1 11-06-2017 19:08
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902832)
PFI was a Labour initiative, wasn't it? They should not be allowed to dodge that truth.

Frankly I don't care whether the private or public sector run it, as long as we get better value for money, and provided that it remains free at the point of delivery.

---------- Post added at 16:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------


Why does anyone care so much who runs the NHS? It's a ridiculous debate, given the obvious inefficiency that we have to contend with while it remains as it is.
PFI was a rebranding of the Conservative PPP scheme by the Labour Party. Both are costing us dearly but with an effective two-state system, both parties will be forgiven and re-elected. In fact, the same way that you seem to gloss over the Conservative Party's PPP suggests many have already forgiven the Conservative Party.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35902875)
I do love the response of "forget the past it's about the future" which of course benefits labour as they were responsible for more privatisation then the conservatives in the past and would do it again in the future because PFI fits right in with the labour philosophy of deliver now, pay later so the past is relevant because labour will repeat it. As long as there are muppets who will keep supporting labour it won't change because they just delude themselves that only the tories are a threat to the NHS.
What figures do you have to demonstrate your assertion?

richard1960 11-06-2017 19:12
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35902872)
What you are not seeing is that the private sector can take a profit from the efficiencies they introduce whilst still saving money for the taxpayer.

The PFI debacle was a poorly thought out Labour initiative which did nothing to limit ongoing costs. It just shows the level of inexperience and business know-how in the Labour Party that resulted in this state of affairs.
I can tell you now Old Boy university NHS trusts are already run similar to private buissness I work for one if you can show me the private sector can save cash on our staffing levels I will eat my x ray trolley.!

Let me tell you now private profit and public service are not good bedfellows.

As you have seen with the PFI which incidently was first drawn up by John Major and the last tory government before Labour.

Osem 11-06-2017 19:21
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35902894)
I can tell you now Old Boy university NHS trusts are already run similar to private buissness I work for one if you can show me the private sector can save cash on our staffing levels I will eat my x ray trolley.!

Let me tell you now private profit and public service are not good bedfellows.

As you have seen with the PFI which incidently was first drawn up by John Major and the last tory government before Labour.
PFI had/has its place, the trouble is that Brown used it to excess in order to buy votes whilst keeping huge capital spending off the books and thereby allow him to continue pushing the 'prudence' line. I have no idea who negotiated those contracts but they ought to have been shot.

richard1960 11-06-2017 22:00
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35902899)
PFI had/has its place, the trouble is that Brown used it to excess in order to buy votes whilst keeping huge capital spending off the books and thereby allow him to continue pushing the 'prudence' line. I have no idea who negotiated those contracts but they ought to have been shot.
I am in danger of agreeing with you serially .:)

And yes whoever negotiated them ought to face a firing squad.

OLD BOY 12-06-2017 09:09
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35902939)
I am in danger of agreeing with you serially .:)

And yes whoever negotiated them ought to face a firing squad.
On that, I think we are in total agreement.

Mr K 12-06-2017 18:12
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
EU nurse applicants drop by 96% since Brexit vote
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40248366

Well that's going to help with the staffing crisis. Time the Govt. got off it's incompetent backside and gave reassurance to essential EU workers.

1andrew1 12-06-2017 21:11
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35903076)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40248366

Well that's going to help with the staffing crisis. Time the Govt. got off it's incompetent backside and gave reassurance to essential EU workers.
Even if it didn't do that, it could revise the 85-page nationality application form to make it easier for hardworking EU nationals to become British citizens.

Mr K 12-06-2017 21:46
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Mrs K, a nurse , is interested in a job move and has made a few initial enquiries on the many many jobs available. The phone hasn't stopped ringing with people asking her when she's going to apply. It's getting to the point when nurses can hold their own interview panels of potential employers. Wards in the same hospital are poaching staff from each other. Not a healthy state of affairs. Trying to persuade her to become an Agency nurse for more money but the silly woman has principles.

Kursk 13-06-2017 12:53
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35903115)
Mrs K, a nurse , is interested in a job move and has made a few initial enquiries on the many many jobs available. The phone hasn't stopped ringing with people asking her when she's going to apply. It's getting to the point when nurses can hold their own interview panels of potential employers. Wards in the same hospital are poaching staff from each other. Not a healthy state of affairs. Trying to persuade her to become an Agency nurse for more money but the silly woman has principles.
I love nurses (fond memories :p:).

My sincere regards to your wife. She is a gem and I wish her well in her job move :)

Osem 13-06-2017 13:40
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard1960 (Post 35902939)
I am in danger of agreeing with you serially .:)

And yes whoever negotiated them ought to face a firing squad.
Things can always get worse. ;)

Well according to some folks around here we shouldn't be talking about PFI any more because it's all 'irrelevant' to the current situation. Yeah and it'll continue to be 'irrelevant' for the many decades the NHS (aka taypayer) is going to have to pay the vast sums of money required under these awful contracts.

nomadking 13-06-2017 13:45
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
The total UK PFI debt is over £300bn for projects worth only £55bn. This means that nearly £250bn will be spent swelling the coffers of PFI groups.
Not sure how that equates to £2bn a year.

Hugh 13-06-2017 16:07
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35903188)
Not sure how that equates to £2bn a year.
The £2 billion per year is for the NHS PFI debts - the overall PFI debt is about £11 billion per year, I think.

Mr K 18-08-2017 18:19
Re: Crisis in the NHS
 
Quote:
Stephen Hawking has accused ministers of damaging the NHS, blaming the Conservatives in a passionate and sustained attack for slashing funding, weakening the health service though privatisation, demoralising staff by curbing pay and cutting social care support.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...y_to_clipboard
It's something we all know, and just seem to accept, but good for Prof. Hawking. Wonder what he thinks to the £44,000 bathroom Jeremy Hunt ordered for his office ?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7891846.html


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