Re: The energy crisis
 

Perhaps not, but an interesting aspect of our energy issues and especially our dash for wind as a key renewable resource is that in the UK, our lowest temperatures tend to be associated with reduced wind speed. This is because the low pressure systems that give us our best wind come from the west or the southwest across the Atlantic and so are relatively warm. Polar maritime and polar continental air masses are generally dragged over the UK by high pressure systems which tend to have lower wind speeds.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The complaint by nffc was that it's warmer than it was a few weeks ago, so why the threat of blackouts.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes, and the correlation between the energy generation and colder weather meaning less wind/solar energy is sensible.


But there's also the obvious one that if it's colder people will be staying in more and also will be using more energy to heat their homes, which won't all be obtained from gas. And of course more gas being used to heat their homes might lead to less being available to make electricity, if that's the shortage.


I still think this is another boiling frog and they'll be doing it more and more then charging more for electricity in that period... there's much further they can take this too.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's an interesting one. Not sure how much energy boiling frogs produces?
It could indeed be the solution, but bad news for frogs.

Re: The energy crisis
 

:tu:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Do you guys let your heating trigger ON during the night if it gets too cold?

I've always had my heating set to go OFF at 10pm and it currently comes on if I'm home at 7am but with it below zero outside the house temp drops to around 12.5c and then takes hours to warm up again, it's currently 17c and the heatings been on 3hrs.

So I'm wondering that now I have a Tado smart thermastat whether I should schedule it not to drop below a certain temperature during the night maybe 15c?

Re: The energy crisis
 

During winter, I leave the heating controls permanently on and control usage with the thermostat only. At night, the thermostat is turned down to around 12/13c so it can kick in if it gets that cold. Not sure how this works out economically but heating is needed and that’s that.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes my concern was how much increase if anything it would cost me, it also depends which shift I'm working, if I'm on early shift then the heating stays off from 10pm to maybe 11am until I switch it on again while at work so the house is a little warmer.

Re: The energy crisis
 

No central heating here but thick combined duvets ~18 Tog. Snug and toasty all night.

Mind you it's a bit Vladivostock when you have to pop out for a pee.

Re: The energy crisis
 

We do exactly the same here. The only thing we have added is a fleece throw over the bottom of the bed that we use to stay warm when we do any loo runs during the night. :)

Re: The energy crisis
 

Surely your fingerless gloves, hair shirt, beanie, arctic socks and Woolley undies keep you warm on pee runs? I can’t be the only one who has prepared sensibly for the early morning wee :blush:

Admittedly, finding it can be tricky.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Directly across the landing mate can't miss it. Don't forget to lift the seat or you'll be in trouble.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My issue isn't being cold in bed as I'm not with the heating off it's whether I should warm the house a little during the night so it's not so cold in the mornings, and the house then takes less energy to get upto temperature assuming I'm at home.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You want to have some sort of heat in the house to avoid damp, wood rotting, and condensation mostly.

Re: The energy crisis
 

What's the definition of a sort of heat? As I have no plans to run the heating 24/7, I think the lowest it has got since I installed the smart thermastat is 11c when I was away over Christmas and it was set to not go below 10c.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Au contraire mon ami. Au naturel but swiftly. :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

Mine is on 24/7, controlled by Hive. I set it a little lower overnight, but not too much.
I'm always up until 3.30am ish, plus the little one to keep warm, who is up (with someone) from about 5am ish.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Like Paul, I also have Hive.

Ours runs on a schedule to have the house heated to 18c by 6am which is when I'm generally up and about, from half eight in the morning till five at night it's set to 15c and then from five till ten PM its set to 18c then back to 15c until it needs to start heating the following morning.

IIRC Hive also has frost protection and it kicks in automatically at either 5c or 8c can't remember

Re: The energy crisis
 

18c is too cold for me unless I put thermals on my legs ,atleast first thing in the morning so mines set to 20c when im Home, so it's off from 10pm to 6am as that's a waste if I don't need it.

It currently comes on at 6am till 10pm during the day and evening, if I'm not home it'll be put into Away mode which is set to not drop below 10c, this hasn't been triggered yet.

Over all since installing my Tado Smart Thermostat I must be using less gas as it's always off when I'm not at home apart from me switching it back on remotely before I arrive back, so it was a fantastic Black Friday investment.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I know Hive supports it but unsure if the Tado does but take a look and see if it supports 'heat by' which will have your house to the temperature you want by the time you want. no more having to do it manually !

Re: The energy crisis
 

That is a good feature of Tado too but i have to pay monthly for that feature which is a waste of money for me, my phone notifies me when it detects I'm not at home so forgetting isn't a problem I just have to remember to switch it on a few hours before arriving home, not bad for a total cost of £99 self install and I don't need smart radiator thermostats luckily for only a 2 bed house which would bump the cost alot more.

Re: The energy crisis
 

By default its 8C, although I changed mine to 10C.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Ready by is a nice idea if your house can actually warm up. Essentially it turns the heating on up to an hour before your ready by time so if it's warmer it turns on later. But if the thermostat room doesn't get up to the set temperature ...

Re: The energy crisis
 

...then you probably have to turn up the temperature on your boiler if you can.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Octopus apparently are allowing people to sign up to their tracker tariff again which in December at least was up to 10 per kwh cheaper than the fix leccy and 4p cheaper gas

Re: The energy crisis
 

Sounds good for people on Octopus, what's the catch?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well in theory, I'll be on Octopus at some point in 2023, not heard anything yet though.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Same here, heard nothing

Re: The energy crisis
 

well you will need to keep a daily eye on prices to ensure they are not peaking higher than standard. You are allowed apparently to switch through the website back to standard if needed

Re: The energy crisis
 

I am on Agile and Gas tracker.

The catch is the cap on the tariff is very high. On my tariff its low but I signed up to a much older version.

The current trackers have a cap about triple the EPG.

However..

Since start of October, gas has been below EPG rates the vast majority of the time, it was about 30% of EPG rate for most of October and November, and is currently about 60% EPG today (6.4p unit).

On Agile today my electric unit rates got as low as 17p, the average is 27p. Back in October and November it was really cheap and some days Octopus paid me to use electric. Electric has peaked at only 37p since then (on the higher capped trackers).

If you jump on the tracker, you can leave whenever you want penalty free, so if things get rough you can get out of town quickly, so basically just keep an eye on things. If you dont like the idea of risk and keeping track, then its not for you.

For reference my Agile is capped at 33.02p (EPG rate) and my gas also capped at EPG rate but I am on much older tariffs.

This site shows wind generation which affects daily prices. Those on SVR and normal fixed dont benefit from this.

https://winderful.uk/

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://news.sky.com/story/british-g...merge-12801126

And what will Ofgem do? Tell them to stop being naughty? Another toothless regulator.
Also amazes me how BG engineers can shut down folks boilers, on spurious grounds, and are then on commission to sell new boilers at inflated prices. Another scam..

Re: The energy crisis
 

"spurious grounds"?

Do you mean telling people that the boilers are unsafe or there aren’t parts for them any more?

I’m sure you’d be amongst the first to condemn them if they left unsafe equipment in place and people died because it was faulty…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Unsafe might be grounds to shut down a boiler, lack of parts is not.

Re: The energy crisis
 

To be fair if parts are no longer available to repair a boiler then it has shut down due to end of life. That said independant Gas Safe engineers may be able to access parts.

Also since the report.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bri...ts-2023-02-02/

Re: The energy crisis
 

As long as its running, a lack of parts doesnt matter.
You simply have to be prepared to replace it when it does die.

My last boiler ran for many many years after parts stopped being available.
I eventually took the decision to replace it before it was forced on me by failure.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The BG engineer scam is to claim the parts aren't available if the boiler is more than a few years old. They then get commission from BG for giving the lead to a salesman to sell you a new boiler at a vastly inflated price. The parts are of course available if you go to an independent fitter.

Happened to my father-in-law, who had Parkinsons, a few years ago. We were away at the time, they stitched him up good and proper. A company that has a history of preying on the vulnerable.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I found this post very useful. I am happy to send you a voucher for 6 Angus Tomahawk steaks, if you PM me your name , address and a delivery date in February

The scottish butcher says

The Tomahawk is a Sirloin steak on the bone, french trimmed to expose the bone. The Cut is well marbled and has a high fat content to ensure a fantastic meat lovers experience. This cut is Dry Aged for a Minimum of 45 Days.


To all: Please note that perishable goods cannot be given to food banks. This is a catering firm in Glasgow and I was given the voucher, so I can choose them for our hospitality events. My/neighbours's/relatives's fridges/freezers are full. Do not be mean to me.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My Bulb bill for January is £214 December was £139 so god knows what other people bills are like that have their heating on all day and have a bigger house than me!

Re: The energy crisis
 

I had my heating on once in Jan to dry some clothes and forgot about it and it cost over 4 quid for just a few hours. If I was to use it I could easily see the bill being £300 for gas alone a month

Re: The energy crisis
 

January was a cold month if I remember even when home the heatings not always running just a burst now and then, I get a nice graph on my Tado, December was a short month as I was away from home for over a week so I guess mine looked worse when comparing.

You should set a timer on your mobile so you don't forget.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Dec approx £350, Jan approx £450, thats gas and electric.
Our house is always occupied, 4 adults, and one 18 mth toddler.

Re: The energy crisis
 

That is incredibly generous of you. Steak is a rare treat in my house :) message sent

Re: The energy crisis
 

Smart meter says nothing for electric , and £26 for gas , can't give up my gas range! Perhaps I should move to bottled and then I would avoid all standing charges :erm:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Um, you dont use any electric :confused:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Solar, heat pump logburner double garage now a big battery ! So no I don't use mains :)

Re: The energy crisis
 

Baxi sent an "elephant size" engineer that could not fit in the 1m x0.8m cabinet to repair the under warranty boiler (installed by Baxi) . After a heated (below zero, the boiler was not working) exchange, he left the house furious but he returned to put a "not safe use note" through the letterbox.

It is all sorted now, but I had to navigate through the "body shaming" etiquette.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I've never had an issue with BG engineers. They have tried to get me to have a new boiler and their prices while higher than local companies were not vastly inflated. Out boiler finally went when the expansion vessel "failed" so we could never get it fully to pressure and it was only 22 years old poor thing. They really don't make things to last do they?

Re: The energy crisis
 

That’s a decent age for a boiler, and don’t forget they are less efficient as they get older too. The fact that no spare part was available should tell you all you need to know about the expected lifespan of the unit. That said if you were absolutely determined you could have had an independent central heating engineer add an external expansion vessel to your system. We had that done to ours because the internal vessels supplied for our boiler were notoriously short-lived.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Anything past 20 years is good going for a boiler, I had mine replaced last summer, it was 23 years old and still running fine, but many parts stopped being available years ago, so I decided to replace it in the summer, rather than have it break down in the winter and need replacing then.

I notice they plan to make "gas" 20% hydrogen towards the end of this decade. My new boiler will be able to handle this. I'm not sure about full hydrogen when that comes along, but thats a long time yet, it'll probably be ready for replacement again by then.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Arrived today. Thank you very much
These are the best 3 :) The biggest is 24oz way over the 16oz labelled

Re: The energy crisis
 

Very nice. :)

Re: The energy crisis
 

My mum's 1977 (!) noisy Potterton gave up last November. It was almost the size of a washing machine so bags more space in the kitchen now! She now has a near silent Worcester Bosch too.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Just switching to Octopus SVR from Shell with a view to switching to their Tracker tariff when onboard. Has anyone done this yet?

There is a hotukdeals thread on this here: https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/bea...energy-4078767

Paul, if you are with Bulb, this thread mentions this scenario:

Re: The energy crisis
 

TBH I am waiting to see if the rate goes up in April. My gas consumption is really low and my electric consistent. If it does go up in April then I will jump onto the tracker if not then I may well stick

Re: The energy crisis
 

I am, but not for much longer.

Last week I tried to get them to switch me from E7 to standard as I no longer use enough electricity at night to make it worthwhile.

This is easily done (without changing meter) as all companies do is add up the two readings and charge at the single rate.

Octopus even have a help page offering to do this.

Bulb however, just basically refused and wanted to charge me £120 to swap my meter. :mad:

So I stuck two fingers up at them, and signed up to switch to British Gas [the switch is set for Friday], they were quite happy to do this from the start - it was actually a question when I signed up - they detected I had a dual rate meter and asked if I wanted to go on a Dual or Single rate.

I'll see how this goes for a few months but I will still have the option to move (again) if necessary.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Something else I discovered as well today.

Radio Teleswitch Service planned shutdown
My current E7 meter (like many I would guess) is controlled by the RTS, so it only has another year of service, making my switch to standard even more critical.

(to continue on E7, people relying on RTS will likely have to switch to smart meters). I'm surprised this has been publicised more.

Re: The energy crisis
 

So are all companies allowing people to move to them again?

Last time I checked, none of them were taking on new customers.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes.

Re: The energy crisis
 

My 1980s boiler is still going strong. Friends and relatives have been through several 'new' boilers in that time, they seem to be a very flaky build these days.

Re: The energy crisis
 

What about the piece of gas equipment that hears up your water? ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

You should try actually using it occasionally. ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

I'd bet it's not that efficient, have you tried getting it tested for efficiency?

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's more efficient than having to get a new boiler every few years.

Re: The energy crisis
 

That's for me too with my 25 year old boiler, I had mine fixed rather than pay £3000+, I know if I stay in this house I will need to change it before they stop installing them as I'm not having a heat pump as a boiler, heard some bad stories for how useless they are and how expensive to run.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You need to stop listening to the man down the pub. If they’re installed properly, heat pumps are extremely effective. The problem isn’t the heat pump, it’s the British attitude to building and insulating houses, thanks to something like 400 years of extremely cheap energy. It has always been easier to chuck more coal on the fire, or latterly just turn the thermostat up a notch, than to think seriously about retaining the heat.

They are widely used in far colder places than the UK and the technology is always improving - today you can get the same results from an air-source unit that 20 years ago you would have to have installed a hundred metres of pipe underground to get.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think they are going to be banned from 2030 and they say that the average boiler lasts about ten years, so we will all have to eventually move over (unless they are as lucky as you've been with your boiler)!

There's currently a Government grant towards heat pumps of £5,000- but that still means paying out about £7,000.

That's not economic for my expected lifespan. With the passage of time though, as all homes will have alternative systems, this will becom less relevant.

I think it would be prudent of the Government to increase the level of grants available to mature people, paid for by possibly cutting or withdrawing grants to younger people who will have the chance to make a profit after installing them.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You may not have thought that statement fully through…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Boilers are not going to be 'banned', but they will eventually run on hydrogen.

10 years ? Where on earth do you get that low figure from ?

Make a "profit" ? How, exactly :confused:

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’m pretty sure I’ve heard that figure bandied about

(Googles …)

Yes, lots of places say to consider replacement after 10-15 years due to reduced efficiency. Lots of places want to sell you a new boiler though.

I’ve only ever lived in one house more than 10 years that had a gas boiler though, and when I left after 18 years the original was still installed and going strong.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Boiler=gas boiler.

The profit relates to when the cost savings have repaid the extra costs of a heat pump over and above a gas boiler, then people are making a profit by changing until the heat pump reaches the end of it's life.

My last gas boiler was a relatively cheap one that was provided free due to me being disabled.and failed after 10 years.

I now need another one, which will be another gas boiler as, perversely this is all that they offer.

When they came to inspect it, I said it had only lasted 10 years and was told that this was about right.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Does anyone know if existing gas boilers can run on hydrogen or be converted to do so?

Will the existing gas supply be changed to hydrogen or will we need a storage tank in a similar fashion to those that use oil?

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think it's a bit of a pipe dream and all very theoretical at the moment.

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.hellohydrogen.com/?gclid...xoCWmMQAvD_BwE

Re: The energy crisis
 

On the contrary, the first village-sized trial will begin in 2025, either in Redcar or Whitby, near Ellesmere Port in Cheshire. A new ‘hydrogen ready’ standard for boilers installed in UK homes has already been drawn up and should mean that by 2025 at the latest, all new installations will be able to burn hydrogen.

https://utilityweek.co.uk/redcar-and...rogen-village/

Conversion ought to be possible also, and has been done before. Our national gas infrastructure progressively switched from town gas to natural gas in the mid 20th century. It takes a fair bit of logistics and a lot of home visiting but it can be done.

The idea is to replace methane with hydrogen in the public supply, but given the immensely complicated task of ensuring all domestic boilers can burn hydrogen and the local network (not to mention domestic pipes) can distribute it without leaking, this is not going to happen any time very soon.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

What the actual heckery are you talking about? Terrorists?

I’m ignoring the rest of it because it’s obvious bolleaux in any scenario where appropriate professional standards of installation are employed, as they already are amongst properly licensed gas fitters working in the UK.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes, and … ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

People forget, or didn't know, that the old "town gas" that was made from coal contained a significant amount of hydrogen.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Didn't know that, that's encouraging.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's mainly a re-jetting exercise, similar as what was done when we converted from town gas to natural gas. This establishes the correct stoichiometric mixture for efficient combustion.

They'll need to add something for hob use to make the flame obvious as pure hydrogen has an almost invisible flame plus the gas pong that is added to natural gas so we can smell if there's a leak or something left on but not lit.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Putting the reduced cost and environmental benefits to one side, we will have had to do something anyway. I can remember being told at school that North Sea gas would run out in the year 2000. I've read that they've since found a bit more, but surely it must be running low by now.

Even imported gas would eventually run out.

I think i'd prefer a hydrogen boiler than a heat pump at this stage.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Peak Oil (and by extension Peak Gas) is a bit of a myth. There was supposed to be only 40 years of oil left when I was at school, about 40 years ago. It was just another line peddled by the environmental lobby. We may have made significant inroads into the easily recoverable stuff but there’s a lot more, in places that only become economical when the easy stuff is gone.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Indeed it did, Hydrogen, Carbon Monoxide & Methane were the main components. Quite a bit of Hydrogen as I understand it.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Commercial Town Gas mixture - 49% H2, 28.5% CH4, 19.5% CO2 and 3% CO.

Source

Re: The energy crisis
 

Ahh, if there was carbon monoxide in it that explains why people used to put their head in the oven as a way to end their lives. Very sad.

You don't hear of people doing this these days, thank the Lord.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It’s also a bit of a shocker that almost a quarter of the volume of gas piped into the house wasn’t even flammable!

Re: The energy crisis
 

My son is a gas engineer and went into a partnership with a friend, and started up their own business, both of whom used to work for British Gas, and left as they were getting screwed over by them, they were offered the ludicrous fire and rehire terms which both of them said, no way.
Anyway, they install new boilers which can be converted to Hydrogen, these boilers come with a 15-year warranty.

Re: The energy crisis
 

What's stopping Centrica paying for it from their record profits?

Also what's stopping the government from constructing their own gas reserve units that they own?

I have always found state's funding private owned infrastructure a flawed model.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Interesting read on heat pumps in today’s Times.

Inside the UK’s first heat pump village

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...32a929950361af

Re: The energy crisis
 

The law. Publicly listed companies are compelled to act in their shareholders’ interests. If they are seen to be making decisions that they know will have less of a return on investment than other alternatives the directors are at risk of being pursued by their shareholders.

For sure there will be times when a private company will lean on this excuse as a bargaining ploy when it thinks there is grant money to be screwed out of the government, but it is basically true. They aren’t in it for the good of the nation, they’re in it to make even bigger profits.

Nothing, and there’s a very good argument that they should do exactly that, as it is obviously a strategic, national security issue that the market is unable to cater for. Write to your MP.

Providing the State’s involvement is treated as an investment from which the state gets some measurable return then it can work. But if it’s just helping companies not to invest money they probably would have done if left alone, not so much.

Re: The energy crisis
 

An interesting read but unless I missed it I can't find where the actual cost is for each household, surely they have to pay something?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Closest thing I could find in the article.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I had a nice email from Bulb yesterday. My monthly payments are going to be lowered from £252 to £230 a month (1930s semi detached ex-council house with solid walls so terrible heat loss) It seems our energy efficiency drive is working well!

Re: The energy crisis
 

If you log in to their app or website you can adjust the DD yourself, it gives you far better control as I've just lowered mine to £67 but their recommended is currently £63 a month.

Re: The energy crisis
 

While true, they still set a minimum that you cannot go below.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Anyone vulnerable who would suffer due to the cold may be able to ask their GP to prescribe some warmth. This is currently only in trial areas, but will soon go nationwide.

It is hoped that this will save NHS resources & money, whilst helping the most vulnerable in society.