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Dave42 05-09-2019 15:26
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36008926)
Corbyn and the Labour party are running scared from an election.
utter rubbish they not falling for the trap so Johnson can change date so get a no deal Brexit as he know parliament wont allow it Labour is doing exact right thing

---------- Post added at 14:26 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008934)
news flash...........we haven't left.
I know that's why Johnson set the trap to try get a election as he know that only way he ever get a no deal Brexit which will be big disaster

Damien 05-09-2019 15:34
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36008930)
Nope. It's obvious, they don't want one before 1st Nov as they know they will lose. If they were confident of winning why not have it on Oct 15th?
Because they think they it's better for their chances if they hold it after Nov 1st or at least in a better position after a No Deal law passes which the Tories would have to promise to then revoke in an election pledge.

pip08456 05-09-2019 15:40
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36008938)
Because they think they it's better for their chances if they hold it after Nov 1st or at least in a better position after a No Deal law passes which the Tories would have to promise to then revoke in an election pledge.
They don't have to promise to revoke it at all.

Pierre 05-09-2019 15:41
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36008938)
after a No Deal law passes which the Tories would have to promise to then revoke in an election pledge.
A sure fire vote winner.

Carth 05-09-2019 15:50
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008940)
A sure fire vote winner.
:Yes: :tu:

Damien 05-09-2019 15:54
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36008939)
They don't have to promise to revoke it at all.
I think they'll come under pressure from the Brexit Party to explicitly promise No Deal to avoid them running candidates against Tory MPs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008940)
A sure fire vote winner.
Not as sure fire a vote winner as Remain vs Leave would be for the Conservatives. No Deal polls lower than Brexit as a whole. I am not saying it's electoral poison for the Tories but Labour would much rather run against a Tory Party going for No Deal, alienating the type of Conservatives who rebelled on Tuesday, than one just promising Brexit against a 'Remain insurgency'.

Hugh 05-09-2019 15:59
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008940)
A sure fire vote winner.
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/09/3.gif

pip08456 05-09-2019 16:05
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36008942)
I think they'll come under pressure from the Brexit Party to explicitly promise No Deal to avoid them running candidates against Tory MPs.



Not as sure fire a vote winner as Remain vs Leave would be for the Conservatives. No Deal polls lower than Brexit as a whole. I am not saying it's electoral poison for the Tories but Labour would much rather run against a Tory Party going for No Deal, alienating the type of Conservatives who rebelled on Tuesday, than one just promising Brexit against a 'Remain insurgency'.
They could cut a deal without a manifesto pledge for it.

Damien 05-09-2019 16:12
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36008944)
They could cut a deal without a manifesto pledge for it.
Maybe but not sure what could be in it for them. They would want a concrete pledge since without it then Johnson, newly safe with a theoretical majority for five years, could ignore them.

Anyway this is just speculative but I think that is Labour's motivation to delay. Boris Johnson was clearly been gunning for this election so it makes sense their wary of it just yet.

Pierre 05-09-2019 17:00
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36008942)
I think they'll come under pressure from the Brexit Party to explicitly promise No Deal to avoid them running candidates against Tory MPs.



Not as sure fire a vote winner as Remain vs Leave would be for the Conservatives. No Deal polls lower than Brexit as a whole. I am not saying it's electoral poison for the Tories but Labour would much rather run against a Tory Party going for No Deal, alienating the type of Conservatives who rebelled on Tuesday, than one just promising Brexit against a 'Remain insurgency'.
All the Tories need to do is to promise to Leave, on a given date regardless.

Deal or No Deal, and I think that would garner enough support.

pip08456 05-09-2019 17:24
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008947)
All the Tories need to do is to promise to Leave, on a given date regardless.

Deal or No Deal, and I think that would garner enough support.
In a nutshell.

Dave42 05-09-2019 17:27
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008947)
All the Tories need to do is to promise to Leave, on a given date regardless.

Deal or No Deal, and I think that would garner enough support.
your forgetting Nigel splitting the tory vote and forgetting how big a liar Johnson is

Carth 05-09-2019 17:57
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36008950)
your forgetting Nigel splitting the tory vote and forgetting how big a liar Johnson is
You're forgetting how they could both do a deal to ensure they get what they want ;)

pip08456 05-09-2019 18:04
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36008951)
You're forgetting how they could both do a deal to ensure they get what they want ;)
Rather than splitting the vote and do a deal where Brexit party don't contest Tory safe seats and Tories let Brexit party take on Labour in vote leave areas or something along those lines.

Carth 05-09-2019 18:07
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36008952)
Rather than splitting the vote and do a deal where Brexit party don't contest Tory safe seats and Tories let Brexit party take on Labour in vote leave areas or something along those lines.
works for me :D

Dave42 05-09-2019 18:16
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36008951)
You're forgetting how they could both do a deal to ensure they get what they want ;)
your forgetting Nigel don't trust Boris ;) and especially if election in November when we still in EU ;) which is looking very likely

pip08456 05-09-2019 18:36
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36008955)
your forgetting Nigel don't trust Boris ;) and especially if election in November when we still in EU ;) which is looking very likely
You are forgetting even the most unlikely can become allies for a common purpose.

Mick 05-09-2019 20:11
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36008936)
utter rubbish they not falling for the trap so Johnson can change date so get a no deal Brexit as he know parliament wont allow it Labour is doing exact right thing
Oh come of it, stop saying others spout rubbish, when this above from you is exactly this. For too long, Terrorist sympathy loving Corbyn (Do remember that!) has been banging on about wanting an election, an opportunity comes along, Labour bottle it - they are cowards because they know they would lose big time because the UK still wants to leave. This bollocks that people have changed their minds, no they have not.

nomadking 05-09-2019 20:26
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Looks like Labour is preparing for an election.
Link

Quote:
Nearly 200,000 people have applied to register to vote in just 72 hours, and more than half of them are under 35.
I wonder how many of them are genuine?

Dave42 05-09-2019 20:55
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36008970)
Oh come of it, stop saying others spout rubbish, when this above from you is exactly this. For too long, Terrorist sympathy loving Corbyn (Do remember that!) has been banging on about wanting an election, an opportunity comes along, Labour bottle it - they are cowards because they know they would lose big time because the UK still wants to leave. This bollocks that people have changed their minds, no they have not.
I have no time for Corbyn as you see I said earlier it is worse choice of leaders in history we have in election put it obvious it a trap even political editors like Theo Usherwood on LBC been speaking it most of day and a election would solve Brexit as other issues will come into play too if leave so certain they win why not have a another referendum and see then it settled once and for all or are leave cowards not wanting one and for who would win I don't know

and for the record don't want a second referendum but it better way to settle it rather than a election and choice should be remain and no deal think that is most fair way

Pierre 05-09-2019 21:00
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36008972)
Looks like Labour is preparing for an election.
Link

I wonder how many of them are genuine?
Well I got a letter from my local authority a couple of weeks ago, asking me to confirm my details for the electoral register, which I finally got around to yesterday. I suggest that many other authorities have probably done this.

Doesn’t necessarily mean there’s been a massive rush just on this issue.

richard s 05-09-2019 21:05
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
I see that Johnson junior has quit... how many more blue noses will go.

Pierre 05-09-2019 21:06
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36008975)
and for the record don't want a second referendum but it better way to settle it and choice should be remain and no deal think that's fairest
Absolutely not, any re-running of the referendum should be an exact replica of the original with the exact same question as the original.

Everybody now knows what connotations are behind any Leave vote, and may include a deal or not.

But the question has to be the same, if it ever happens.

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 20:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard s (Post 36008977)
I see that Johnson junior has quit... how many more blue noses will go.
I see a Labour MP also quit, I wonder how many of them will go?

Dave42 05-09-2019 21:07
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008978)
Absolutely not, any re-running of the referendum should be an exact replica of the original with the exact same question as the original.

Everybody now knows what connotations are behind any Leave vote, and may include a deal or not.

But the question has to be the same, if it ever happens.
election wont solve it what if we elect a mostly remain parliament again will leavers be happy then no chance

pip08456 05-09-2019 21:07
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008976)
Well I got a letter from my local authority a couple of weeks ago, asking me to confirm my details for the electoral register, which I finally got around to yesterday. I suggest that many other authorities have probably done this.

Doesn’t necessarily mean there’s been a massive rush just on this issue.
Same for me.

denphone 05-09-2019 21:15
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36008981)
Same for me.
And here as we got ours several weeks ago.

Damien 05-09-2019 21:25
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008976)
Well I got a letter from my local authority a couple of weeks ago, asking me to confirm my details for the electoral register, which I finally got around to yesterday. I suggest that many other authorities have probably done this.

Doesn’t necessarily mean there’s been a massive rush just on this issue.
Although they likely wouldn't count as a registation unless you added someone to the register whose eligible to vote I don't think.

What the figure there probably does include is people who registered despite already being eligible. You can register over and over again and it just works. They advise doing it just in case you aren't as there .

nomadking 05-09-2019 21:28
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36008976)
Well I got a letter from my local authority a couple of weeks ago, asking me to confirm my details for the electoral register, which I finally got around to yesterday. I suggest that many other authorities have probably done this.

Doesn’t necessarily mean there’s been a massive rush just on this issue.
In which case the level shouldn't be that unusual but it is.
From my previous link.

Quote:
Sym Roe, from the non-profit Democracy Club, says although there are usually spikes in registrations when students heading to university have to re-apply with their new address, these stats are "quite unusual".
"Compared to other years this is several times bigger than what we would expect for early September.
The figures shot up starting the 1st Sept. Before that the daily figures peaked around 20,000.
Government stats.

Damien 05-09-2019 21:35
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
People know an election is coming, the number spikes before elections.

Hugh 05-09-2019 22:22
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36008990)
People know an election is coming, the number spikes before elections.
Stats from the Gov UK website

https://www.gov.uk/performance/register-to-vote

Gavin78 06-09-2019 01:32
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
The question on the last referendum was "leave or remain" I thought it was pretty clear it wasn't Leave, remain or leave with a deal.

If people who voted leave were under the assumption that we would leave the EU under the same deal as a member need to live with that vote they put pen to paper and should have maybe spent a bit of time thinking about it so it's not my problem.

Imagine if we did this during the election they wouldn't allow it

1andrew1 06-09-2019 08:20
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 36009015)
The question on the last referendum was "leave or remain" I thought it was pretty clear it wasn't Leave, remain or leave with a deal.

If people who voted leave were under the assumption that we would leave the EU under the same deal as a member need to live with that vote they put pen to paper and should have maybe spent a bit of time thinking about it so it's not my problem.

Imagine if we did this during the election they wouldn't allow it
It's clearly your problem as we haven't left yet and each time a new deadline is given, it is extended. ;)
If Vote Leave and Leave.EU had put more energy into supporting the kind of deal they promised then we wouldn't be in the current situation.

Mick 06-09-2019 09:04
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36009018)
It's clearly your problem as we haven't left yet and each time a new deadline is given, it is extended. ;)
If Vote Leave and Leave.EU had put more energy into supporting the kind of deal they promised then we wouldn't be in the current situation.
When was Vote Leave and Leave.EU at the official negotiations?

I’ll give you a clue shall I?

Was on probably on the 12th. Some time in “Never”.

How the hell are people who weren’t responsible for cooking up a deal, to accept it? :rolleyes:

Chris 06-09-2019 09:46
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
The way things are going, on the 12th of Never we’ll still be in the EU...

Mick 06-09-2019 10:13
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
BREAKING: Prime Minister Boris Johnson to have dinner with her Majesty, the Queen tonight at Balmoral.

To be a fly on the wall during this event.... possible discussions...

1) Ask Queen to dissolve Parliament for potential election, ignore Common law, she cannot be challenged if she did.

2) Ask Queen to deny Royal Assent to Remainer Anti-No deal Bill, expected to clear all stages tonight.

3) Inform her of his intentions to resign at some later date. Given his lack of government power in Parliament.

tweetiepooh 06-09-2019 10:30
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36009029)
BREAKING: Prime Minister Boris Johnson to have dinner with her Majesty, the Queen tonight at Balmoral.

To be a fly on the wall during this event.... possible discussions...

1) Ask Queen to dissolve Parliament for potential election, ignore Common law, she cannot be challenged if she did.

2) Ask Queen to deny Royal Assent to Remainer Anti-No deal Bill, expected to clear all stages tonight.

3) Inform her of his intentions to resign at some later date. Given his lack of government power in Parliament.
Or maybe he'll ask her advice. She's seen all sorts of governments, politicians and crisis. She's also had a very public family to keep in order, making different gaffes and foot in mouth moments.

Chris 06-09-2019 10:41
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36009029)
BREAKING: Prime Minister Boris Johnson to have dinner with her Majesty, the Queen tonight at Balmoral.

To be a fly on the wall during this event.... possible discussions...

1) Ask Queen to dissolve Parliament for potential election, ignore Common law, she cannot be challenged if she did.

2) Ask Queen to deny Royal Assent to Remainer Anti-No deal Bill, expected to clear all stages tonight.

3) Inform her of his intentions to resign at some later date. Given his lack of government power in Parliament.
1. Constitutional crisis ... no chance.
2. Constitutional crisis ... as above.
3. Unlikely, and pointless as it still doesn’t precipitate an election.

Rather than asking HM to deny assent (which she can’t do - it’s assent, not consent) he could fail to present the bill to her before Monday. It would fail due to prorogation in that case.

The Queen will doubtless have advice for him. She’s seen all this before. An account of that meeting would be worth all the gold in the world but we will never know.

I think at this stage the most likely outcome on Monday is that the Opposition will be told the Benn Bill will go to the palace for assent at the same time as the motion for a general election. The Lords were all set to talk their way through the weekend on Wednesday night and then it all came to an abrupt halt at 1.30am. Something must have occurred in order to make that happen. The suggestion of a deal, or perhaps just the threat of withholding the Benn Bill from the Queen’s in-tray, is my bet.

nomadking 06-09-2019 10:54
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
The Political Declaration that went along with the Withdrawal Agreement, specifies that discussions on a future deal cannot even start until we leave. Therefore by blocking leaving the EU, the Remainers are the ones saying "no deal".:confused: It can then correctly be argued that fulfilling "no to no deal", actually means leaving the EU.:D There is no possibility of a deal until after we've left.

Hugh 06-09-2019 11:10
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
That’s one way of looking at it...

Of course, if we don’t leave, there’s no need for a deal, therefore no to no no deal would mean not needing no no deal (or not). ;)

denphone 06-09-2019 11:10
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Challenge to UK Parliament suspension fails.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49604584

Quote:
Challenge to UK PM Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament rejected, London's High Court says

Dave42 06-09-2019 11:27
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36009037)
Challenge to UK Parliament suspension fails.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49604584
going to appeal to Supreme Court

Anti-Brexit campaigner: 'I will not give up the fight for democracy'
Speaking outside the High Court after her legal challenge was rejected, anti-Brexit campaigner vows not to give up in her fight against the PM's suspension of parliament.
She says: "As our politics becomes ever more chaotic, we feel it is absolutely vital that parliament should be sitting.
"We are therefore please that the judges have given us permission to appeal to the Supreme Court, which we will be doing.
"And they felt that our case has the merit to be handed up.
"We are looking to sit in the Supreme Court... on 17 September for the appeal hearing.
"Today we stand for everyone, we stand for the future generations and we stand for representative democracy.
"To give up now would be a dereliction of our responsibility.
"We need to protect our institutions. It's not right that they should be shut down or bullied, especially at this most momentous time in our history.

pip08456 06-09-2019 11:28
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36009037)
Challenge to UK Parliament suspension fails.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49604584
As expected.

denphone 06-09-2019 11:30
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36009039)
As expected.
Indeed..

nomadking 06-09-2019 11:33
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36009036)
That’s one way of looking at it...

Of course, if we don’t leave, there’s no need for a deal, therefore no to no no deal would mean not needing no no deal (or not). ;)
But the Remainers insist on saying the a "vote to leave" was a "vote to leave with a deal". The Political Declaration also says that any future deal is to respect the result of the 2016 referendum.
Quote:
It must also ensure the sovereignty of the United Kingdom and the protection of its internal market, while respecting the result of the 2016
referendum including with regard to the development of its independent
trade policy and the ending of free movement of people between the
Union and the United Kingdom.
The EU has declared that there will be no negotiations on a deal until after we've left. Leaving the EU is the required first step to "no to no deal".

Pierre 06-09-2019 11:49
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36009032)
1. Constitutional crisis ... no chance.
2. Constitutional crisis ... as above.
3. Unlikely, and pointless as it still doesn’t precipitate an election.
Parliament certainly don't seem to be bothered about playing fast and loose with the constitution? But I agree, unlikely.


Quote:
I think at this stage the most likely outcome on Monday is that the Opposition will be told the Benn Bill will go to the palace for assent at the same time as the motion for a general election. The Lords were all set to talk their way through the weekend on Wednesday night and then it all came to an abrupt halt at 1.30am. Something must have occurred in order to make that happen. The suggestion of a deal, or perhaps just the threat of withholding the Benn Bill from the Queen’s in-tray, is my bet.
Again I agree, if we return with a Brexit focused government, with a majority, the Benn Bill could be overturned anyway. If we don't get a government with a working majority with all MPs in line, then we will just have more of the same.

Hugh 06-09-2019 11:58
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
If the Government call a motion of Confidence on Monday (to precipitate an election), and tell the Conservative MPs to abstain (to ensure the vote fails, thus "no confidence"), if any Conservative MPs support the motion (because they have confidence in the Government), will they have the Whip removed and be de-selected because they have confidence in the Government?

Asking for a friend... :D

Damien 06-09-2019 12:21
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36009043)
Parliament certainly don't seem to be bothered about playing fast and loose with the constitution? But I agree, unlikely.
They're still elected representatives working with the mechanisms available to them. Different order entirely to trying to get the Queen to dissolve Parliament and break the Fixed Terms Parliament Act.

pip08456 06-09-2019 12:23
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36009047)
They're still elected representatives working with the mechanisms available to them. Different order entirely to trying to get the Queen to dissolve Parliament and break the Fixed Terms Parliament Act.
Making things up again Damien?

nomadking 06-09-2019 12:32
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
You have to wonder why Ireland is being so awkward.
Link
Quote:
Electricity and gas prices could spiral as almost 90% of Ireland’s total energy requirements are imported, and most of it comes from or through the UK.
It’s a business around €4.6 billion each year and the new taxes which will be imposed after Brexit will mean it will hundreds of euro more to heat their homes.
Quote:
While it is unlikely anyone will actually go hungry after a hard Brexit there will almost certainly be shortages of some foods in a matter of days.
It should be remembered that after just a few days of snow when the Beast from the East struck at the end of last February the shelves were bare on many supermarkets.
...
Around two-thirds of the products on Irish supermarket shelves are made in the UK or come through that country.
If deliveries of food get delayed, doesn't that also apply to medicines?


Why aren't they anxious to get things sorted out.

Damien 06-09-2019 12:39
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36009049)
Making things up again Damien?
:confused:

Mick 06-09-2019 12:53
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36009039)
As expected.
Who’s going to tell the only person who has the power to prorogue to undo prorogued Parliament by the time the appeal hearing even starts?

Judicial Review won’t undo Prorogation, they may wrangle it and say Parliament has a role, but it has to be sitting to have a vote on it and it won’t be on 17th, because someone has to tell the Queen to undo the Prorogation and by this time, we’re entering the realms of manifest absurdity.

jfman 06-09-2019 12:54
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009050)
You have to wonder why Ireland is being so awkward.
Link
If deliveries of food get delayed, doesn't that also apply to medicines?

Why aren't they anxious to get things sorted out.
Presumably the EU have a plan to fly in medicines.

Yes the UK could do that, but it’d cause increased customs delays at airports. Something Ireland wouldn’t have.

nomadking 06-09-2019 13:02
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36009052)
:confused:
Parliament passing a "law" that is 100% unachievable is way beyond unconstitutional.
Link

Quote:
Well, Mr Johnson will have until 19 October to either pass a deal in Parliament or get MPs to approve a no-deal Brexit.
As I've pointed out, a deal cannot even start to be negotiated until after we've left. Even then is takes time to properly scrutinise anything.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009055)
Presumably the EU have a plan to fly in medicines.

Yes the UK could do that, but it’d cause increased customs delays at airports. Something Ireland wouldn’t have.
The plan is for the UK to fly in short shelf life medicines. Panic over.
Link

Quote:
Mr Connolly said any delay in that chain has a knock-on effect, adding that “80% of the drugs on my shelf came through the UK, be it through packaging, transport, or manufacturing”.
...
“Ireland has had access to the pharma market by piggybacking on the UK. Having some 60m people next door who speak the same language has been beneficial,” said Mr Connolly.
"If manufacturers have to produce different batches, or packaging, or marketing material for Ireland and that drives up costs, they might decide not to bother if they think it won’t pay them to do it.”

denphone 06-09-2019 13:24
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Boris Johnson hires influential Conservative writer Tim Montgomerie to be his social justice adviser.

https://www.ft.com/world/uk/politics

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-live-newsbior

jfman 06-09-2019 13:27
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009057)
The plan is for the UK to fly in short shelf life medicines. Panic over.
Link
You’ll be unsurprised that I’m sceptical.

Ireland, with its lower population, will presumably need less.

Chris 06-09-2019 13:50
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36009043)
Parliament certainly don't seem to be bothered about playing fast and loose with the constitution? But I agree, unlikely.




Again I agree, if we return with a Brexit focused government, with a majority, the Benn Bill could be overturned anyway. If we don't get a government with a working majority with all MPs in line, then we will just have more of the same.
And just to prove that making predictions in this climate is a mug’s game, the Opposition parties are signaling that they will vote down Monday’s attempt to call an election as well.

We really are through the looking glass now. Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election. Yet he prefers to keep an unworkable government in place and deny the people their say.

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.

Damien 06-09-2019 14:00
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36009062)
Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.
Given how things have gone so far I am not so convinced everything is doing to plan nor that the Tories did due diligence on what his plan was. There is apparently rather wide-spread discontentment amount the Parliamentary Tory Party about the withdrawal of the whip for example .

Possible flaws would be that he didn't think the Opposition Parties would be this organised nor that they would want to delay the election. He might have thought they would waste a week of time trying to find a Parliamentary workaround to being prologued rather than focus on Brexit and didn't take into account that prologuing would unite the opposition.

He could call a no-confidence vote in himself but the effect of withdrawing the whip from those Tories means that even with Labour rebels such as Hoey they are far short of even a simply majority.

He could resign. Get the Queen to send for Corbyn. Let him request an extension and then fight the election on a 'coup' style narrative.

nomadking 06-09-2019 14:07
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009060)
You’ll be unsurprised that I’m sceptical.

Ireland, with its lower population, will presumably need less.
It will still need them. How do other EU countries cope with long distances?


The ongoing claims about non-availability of radioisotopes is linked to Euratom, a separate organisation from the EU.

But
Quote:
The government's answer to this is that medical isotopes are not fissile nuclear material - that is, capable of reacting - so they are not subject to international nuclear safeguards. According to Science Minister Jo Johnson, their availability "should not be impacted by the UK's exit from Euratom".
Quote:
The UK joined Euratom when it joined the EEC in 1973. It is a separate legal entity from the EU, but is tied up with its laws and institutions, and subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ). No country is a full member of Euratom without being a member of the EU.
...
The second reason for quitting Euratom is the government's interpretation of the Brexit result. Vote Leave campaigned to restore British sovereignty and "take back control" by ending the supremacy of EU law over domestic law.
In her speech to the Conservative Party conference in October, Theresa May made this rather more specific, pledging to ensure "the authority of EU law in this country ended forever". This stance has been called the "ECJ red line" - in other words stopping the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg having any authority in the UK.
...


Dominic Cummings, who was campaign director of Vote Leave, this week criticised what he called "government morons" who want to withdraw from Euratom. "Tory Party keeps making huge misjudgements re what the REF was about. EURATOM was different treaties, ECJ role no signif problem," he said on Twitter.
Quote:
Given that Euratom was explicitly mentioned in the Article 50 letter, any reversal of withdrawal would be difficult, and an act of Parliament would probably not be enough.
The idiot May is solely responsible for all that.
Quote:
What's more, staying in the nuclear agreement would not be a matter purely for the UK to decide. The EU, which has published a position paper on Britain's departure from Euratom, would also have to agree. That could make things complicated.Various options have been mooted for an alternative to full Euratom membership. Switzerland, not an EU member, has a special status as an equal partner as an "associated country". This could be an option explored by the UK. But sticking to the ECJ red line might make that path difficult.
The EU being obstructive yet again?


Quote:
On the date of withdrawal, the Treaties, including the Treaty establishing the European Atomic Energy Community (the "Treaty" and the "Community"), cease to apply to the United Kingdom.
The United Kingdom is a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency ("IAEA") and bound by international conventions to which it is a party in its own right. From the withdrawal date, the United Kingdom will have sole responsibility for ensuring its compliance with international obligations arising therefrom.
So is this all part of the nonsense that is Project Fear?

OLD BOY 06-09-2019 14:12
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36009062)
And just to prove that making predictions in this climate is a mug’s game, the Opposition parties are signaling that they will vote down Monday’s attempt to call an election as well.

We really are through the looking glass now. Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election. Yet he prefers to keep an unworkable government in place and deny the people their say.

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.
I think the best option for Boris now is to ask the Queen to extend the prorogation from today until November on the grounds that the opposition have made it impossible to govern. Therefore, there is no point in the Commons sitting.

I can't see the Government being able to conduct business with the other parties simply voting everything down, can you?

Pierre 06-09-2019 14:18
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36009063)
Given how things have gone so far I am not so convinced everything is doing to plan nor that the Tories did due diligence on what his plan was. There is apparently rather wide-spread discontentment amount the Parliamentary Tory Party about the withdrawal of the whip for example .
Boris took on the leadership, with a majority of 1 or 2, and a team full of rebels. He knew what he was taking on. So I would hope anticipated a few things.

One thing he has managed to eliminate, should he get back in power after an election, is the rebel faction.

Quote:
Possible flaws would be that he didn't think the Opposition Parties would be this organised nor that they would want to delay the election. He might have thought they would waste a week of time trying to find a Parliamentary workaround to being prologued rather than focus on Brexit and didn't take into account that prologuing would unite the opposition.
that and Corbyn wimping out on an election.

Quote:
He could call a no-confidence vote in himself but the effect of withdrawing the whip from those Tories means that even with Labour rebels such as Hoey they are far short of even a simply majority.
he would have to instruct his MPs not to vote.

Quote:
He could resign. Get the Queen to send for Corbyn. Let him request an extension and then fight the election on a 'coup' style narrative.
can’t imagine that.

ianch99 06-09-2019 14:26
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36009062)
And just to prove that making predictions in this climate is a mug’s game, the Opposition parties are signaling that they will vote down Monday’s attempt to call an election as well.

We really are through the looking glass now. Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election. Yet he prefers to keep an unworkable government in place and deny the people their say.

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.
Not quite accurate. Should be:

Quote:
Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election at a time when he thinks he has the best chance of winning
Also, Cummings had no strategy & contingencies for Vote Leave so don't be surprised if he does not have one now.

denphone 06-09-2019 14:30
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36009074)
Not quite accurate. Should be:



Also, Cummings had no strategy & contingencies for Vote Leave so don't be surprised if he does not have one now.
l suspect he has got a strategy but whether its working remains open to question.

pip08456 06-09-2019 14:31
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36009052)
:confused:
Quote:
Different order entirely to trying to get the Queen to dissolve Parliament and break the Fixed Terms Parliament Act.
You cannot show this to be fact.

Damien 06-09-2019 14:41
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36009077)
You cannot show this to be fact.
What to be fact? The PM can't just call an election under the FTPA. If he went to the Queen to demand one and she went ahead with it then it would be against the act.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36009068)
that and Corbyn wimping out on an election.
.
And the opposition too. I think the degree of cooperation and organisation of the opposition parties is probably the most surprising thing. They probably didn't think Labour wouldn't turn down an election but even if they did could get a law passed for one on the back of SNP/Liberal votes.

pip08456 06-09-2019 14:43
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
He cannot demand one of the Queen and cannot hold an election without 2/3 agreement under the FTPA.

As I said you are making things up. Unless of course you can prove otherwise.

Damien 06-09-2019 14:47
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36009081)
He cannot demand one of the Queen and cannot hold an election without 2/3 agreement under the FTPA.

As I said you are making things up. Unless of course you can prove otherwise.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I said he can't do it.

Hugh 06-09-2019 15:02
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009057)
Parliament passing a "law" that is 100% unachievable is way beyond unconstitutional.
Link

As I've pointed out, a deal cannot even start to be negotiated until after we've left. Even then is takes time to properly scrutinise anything.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 ----------


The plan is for the UK to fly in short shelf life medicines. Panic over.
Link
But since it appears you are the only one who believes that, it doesn’t matter... ;)

Mr K 06-09-2019 15:04
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p0...yrJ-BruXY=s142

Doesn't he look tired ? ;)

pip08456 06-09-2019 15:05
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36009082)
I have no idea what you're talking about. I said he can't do it.
Fair enough but this appeared to imply it.

Quote:
Different order entirely to trying to get the Queen to dissolve Parliament and break the Fixed Terms Parliament Act.
I accept I misunderstood.

Hugh 06-09-2019 15:05
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36009062)
And just to prove that making predictions in this climate is a mug’s game, the Opposition parties are signaling that they will vote down Monday’s attempt to call an election as well.

We really are through the looking glass now. Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election. Yet he prefers to keep an unworkable government in place and deny the people their say.

Now I wonder what the counter-move is. I’m not ready to believe Cummings was allowed to march the government into this without a strategy with contingencies worked right through to the end.
"Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election" he can win - if he lets himself be fooled into holding an election at a time that would provide maximum benefit to BJ, he wouldn’t be doing his job properly.

denphone 06-09-2019 15:11
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Robert Pestons take.

Quote:
Opposition parties will again vote against general election on Monday. The debate between leaders of Labour, SNP, LibDems, Plaid and Greens is whether to vote for election a day or two after Queen’s Speech on Oct 14 or day or three after EU summit on 17-18 October.

Either way, it is all about making sure @BorisJohnson either goes to Brussels to beg for a Brexit delay or resigns to allow a temporary government of national unity AND means the general election would be in November (mid to late). How does Johnson escape this trap?

nomadking 06-09-2019 15:29
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36009089)
But since it appears you are the only one who believes that, it doesn’t matter... ;)
It's there in black and white in the Political Declaration.
Quote:
1. The European Union, hereafter referred to as “the Union”, and the
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, hereafter referred
to as “the United Kingdom”, ("the Parties”) have agreed this political
declaration on their future relationship, on the basis that Article 50(2)
of the Treaty on European Union (TEU) provides for the negotiation of an
agreement setting out the arrangements for the withdrawal of a
departing Member State, taking account of the framework
for its future relationship with the Union. In that context, this declaration
accompanies the Withdrawal Agreement that has been endorsed by
the Parties, subject to ratification.
...
138. In setting out the framework of the future relationship between
the Union and the United Kingdom, this declaration confirms, as set
out in the Withdrawal Agreement, that it is the clear intent of both
Parties to develop in good faith agreements giving effect to this
relationship and to begin the formal process of negotiations as
soon as possible after the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the
Union, such that they can come into force by the end of 2020.
Link
Quote:
The Political Declaration sets out the framework for the future relationship between the European Union and the United Kingdom. It provides instructions to negotiators that will deliver a future relationship by the end of 2020 covering an economic partnership, a security partnership and agreements on areas of shared interest.
BBC News
Quote:
Formal negotiations on everything it contains can only begin after Brexit has actually happened - currently after 29 March 2019.

OLD BOY 06-09-2019 15:30
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36009094)
Robert Pestons take.


'Opposition parties will again vote against general election on Monday. The debate between leaders of Labour, SNP, LibDems, Plaid and Greens is whether to vote for election a day or two after Queen’s Speech on Oct 14 or day or three after EU summit on 17-18 October.

Either way, it is all about making sure @BorisJohnson either goes to Brussels to beg for a Brexit delay or resigns to allow a temporary government of national unity AND means the general election would be in November (mid to late). How does Johnson escape this trap?'
By asking the Queen this afternoon to extend prorogation immediately after close of business today until 1 November, or by delaying the process of going to the Queen to seek Royal Assent, are two things I can think of.

Pierre 06-09-2019 15:46
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36009093)
"Corbyn’s main job as leader of the opposition is to want, demand, and be ready for an election" he can win
So, when the next election roles around, every five years, if the leader of the opposition thinks he can't win, he should just roll over then.

Damien 06-09-2019 15:49
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36009102)
So, when the next election roles around, every five years, if the leader of the opposition thinks he can't win, he should just roll over then.
Well after 5 years they don’t have a choice with when it happens, at the moment he does.

pip08456 06-09-2019 15:50
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36009102)
So, when the next election roles around, every five years, if the leader of the opposition thinks he can't win, he should just roll over then.
He's never going to demand an election is he? He'll never win one!

Carth 06-09-2019 15:52
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36009105)
He's never going to demand an election is he? He'll never win one!
Probably won't finish any higher than 3rd

Sephiroth 06-09-2019 16:33
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36008905)
yep and the leavers all told us it was gonna be great but we did tell them he be a disaster you notice OB has disappeared from this thread

<SNIP>
Lol. Good job I don't care whether or not we remain in the (perfidious) EU. The rest of it is perverse fun.

Hugh 06-09-2019 16:57
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...box=1567781068
Quote:
A law to block a no-deal Brexit has been passed by Parliament.

Completing the major blow to embattled PM Boris Johnson, legislation was passed unamended in the House of Lords and will now go to the Queen for royal assent.

More follows…

denphone 06-09-2019 17:19
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Some polling quoted in a Financial Times story (paywall) by Jim Pickard helps to explain why Labour might be keen to delay the election until November.

Quote:
An ICM poll suggests that support for the Brexit party would double from 9 per cent to 18 per cent if an election takes place after Halloween.

The poll, commissioned by Represent Us — which is pushing for a second Brexit referendum — found the Conservatives’ lead over Labour would evaporate in those circumstances.

The ICM poll suggests the Tories would beat Labour by 37 per cent against 30 per cent in an October election, while the two parties would be neck and neck on 28 per cent in a November poll.

OLD BOY 06-09-2019 17:20
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36009105)
He's never going to demand an election is he? He'll never win one!
He will, though, because he is deluded and believes he is popular!

Mr K 06-09-2019 17:27
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36009116)
He will, though, because he is deluded and believes he is popular!
Given up on Bozza already ? ;)

Day but day the public will see him for the Muppet he is.

Interesting poll here on how thing might change if you don't get your holy Brexit by 31/10.

Quote:
An ICM poll suggests that support for the Brexit party would double from 9 per cent to 18 per cent if an election takes place after Halloween.

The ICM poll suggests the Tories would beat Labour by 37 per cent against 30 per cent in an October election, while the two parties would be neck and neck on 28 per cent in a November poll.

OLD BOY 06-09-2019 17:33
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36008905)
yep and the leavers all told us it was gonna be great but we did tell them he be a disaster you notice OB has disappeared from this thread

Jo Johnson resigns as a MP

https://news.sky.com/story/live-chan...ecide-11802523
I haven't disappeared, Dave but I confess to being exasperated with all this nonsense.

Have you considered for one moment why this is a disaster? It's because the remainers simply won't accept the referendum result. Leavers said it would be easy to get a deal with the EU, and in fact we do have a deal. It's parliament that has caused the problem, not the EU!

Theresa May also made a big mistake in putting forward the idea for a backstop. We don't need that and Boris is trying to get rid of it. He would succeed if it was not for the remainers in parliament who don't get the argument that you get what you actually want by threatening to walk away without a deal. Hopeless, the lot of them.

And you don't seem to get it either, sadly.

jfman 06-09-2019 17:37
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
We’re in this mess because David Cameron thought putting the question to the country would solve internal party divisions. Instead, all he’s done is bitterly divided the country.

Trying to blame Parliament for that is a stretch.

The backstop wouldn’t have been an issue but for TM’s reliance on the DUP.

Hugh 06-09-2019 17:58
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36009115)
Some polling quoted in a Financial Times story (paywall) by Jim Pickard helps to explain why Labour might be keen to delay the election until November.
Here are the source data tables from ICM.

https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-cont...ll-Tables.xlsx

Dave42 06-09-2019 18:00
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36009119)
I haven't disappeared, Dave but I confess to being exasperated with all this nonsense.

Have you considered for one moment why this is a disaster? It's because the remainers simply won't accept the referendum result. Leavers said it would be easy to get a deal with the EU, and in fact we do have a deal. It's parliament that has caused the problem, not the EU!

Theresa May also made a big mistake in putting forward the idea for a backstop. We don't need that and Boris is trying to get rid of it. He would succeed if it was not for the remainers in parliament who don't get the argument that you get what you actually want by threatening to walk away without a deal. Hopeless, the lot of them.

And you don't seem to get it either, sadly.
if they was a election and it was a majority remain parliament again would you accept it

Pierre 06-09-2019 18:08
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36009125)
if they was a election and it was a majority remain parliament again would you accept it
No, why should anyone respect the result of any vote now?

That horse has well and truly bolted.

There is nothing to compel any one to respect the outcome of any future democratic exercise

nomadking 06-09-2019 18:16
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009121)
We’re in this mess because David Cameron thought putting the question to the country would solve internal party divisions. Instead, all he’s done is bitterly divided the country.

Trying to blame Parliament for that is a stretch.

The backstop wouldn’t have been an issue but for TM’s reliance on the DUP.
Lib Dem Vince Cable was in favour of a referendum.
2007.
Why shouldn't there have been a referendum? Just because there were divisions in Scotland, does that mean a referendum shouldn't have been held? The Labour party isn't exactly united on the issue.


The backstop is an issue for more than just the DUP. It is the EU insisting on it. Why shouldn't the DUP object to it?

Chris 06-09-2019 18:19
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
This forum has a well-established system for responding to other users’ posts, with quotes, and without breaking threading or other people’s subsequent ability to respond clearly.

PLEASE just use the forum software as designed and STOP WRITING YOUR REPLIES WITHIN OTHER PEOPLE’S QUOTES.

You know who you are.

Hugh 06-09-2019 18:23
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Thought this would get more notice...

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...n-becomes-law/
Quote:
Boris Johnson says he would not seek Brexit delay even if it becomes law

Mr Johnson told journalists: "Alas, the Bill that is still before Parliament would make it – in theory it would mean that the Government of the UK was obliged to write a letter to Brussels asking for a pointless delay to leaving the EU.

"I don't think that's what people want. I think they were very clear about that.

"Not only would it oblige the Government to do that, but it would give the EU the power to decide how long the UK had to stay in.

"And I really cannot for the life of me think that that would be a democratic way forward.

"The big picture is look, we spent a long time trying to fudge this thing, and the British public really want us to get out, and they don't want more dither and delay."

Mr Johnson was then asked directly whether he would seek that extension if it is passed into law.

He replied: "I will not. I don't want to delay."

jfman 06-09-2019 18:24
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009128)
Lib Dem Vince Cable was in favour of a referendum.
2007.
Why shouldn't there have been a referendum? Just because there were divisions in Scotland, does that mean a referendum shouldn't have been held? The Labour party isn't exactly united on the issue.


The backstop is an issue for more than just the DUP. It is the EU insisting on it. Why shouldn't the DUP object to it?
Whether Vince wanted a referendum or not is irrelevant to the fact one happened.

It’s only an issue for the DUP and those who want no deal anyway. If it wasn’t the backstop they’d find something else.

Sephiroth 06-09-2019 18:26
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009121)
We’re in this mess because David Cameron thought putting the question to the country would solve internal party divisions. Instead, all he’s done is bitterly divided the country.

Trying to blame Parliament for that is a stretch.

The backstop wouldn’t have been an issue but for TM’s reliance on the DUP.
Sorry, old bean! My splendid response was culled so another attempt to waste my precious time. The numbers refer to your paragraph order.

1/
Correct.

2/
Incorrect. That rabble should have respected the Referendum result.

3/
Incorrect. The backstop would always have been found out as a means for keeping us permanently tied to EU rules at their whim.

Chris 06-09-2019 18:29
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36009132)
Thought this would get more notice...

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...n-becomes-law/
At which point we will most definitely have gone through the looking glass and on towards the second star on the right.

I still can’t shake the feeling that they’re up to something. They had the Lords all set to talk it out and then called it off. They must have seen some way they think they can argue Boris is still acting legally if he acts as he has said he would. I thought they had reached an understanding over the calling of an election, but seemingly not. So what .... ?

jfman 06-09-2019 18:29
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36009134)
Sorry, old bean! My splendid response was culled so another attempt to waste my precious time. The numbers refer to your paragraph order.

1/
Correct.

2/
Incorrect. That rabble should have respected the Referendum result.

3/
Incorrect. The backstop would always have been found out as a means for keeping us permanently tied to EU rules at their whim.
For 3) that’s only because the UK wouldn’t allow divergence between Great Britain and the Island of Ireland at the request of the DUP.

If TM had won the 2017 election we’d have got the deal with backstop and all. Nobody would have cried except the DUP and no deal brigades.

Sephiroth 06-09-2019 18:37
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009136)
For 3) that’s only because the UK wouldn’t allow divergence between Great Britain and the Island of Ireland at the request of the DUP.

If TM had won the 2017 election we’d have got the deal with backstop and all. Nobody would have cried except the DUP and no deal brigades.
I would have "cried" because the EU's perfidious plan was to punish the UK for its impertinence by carving NI off.

jfman 06-09-2019 18:39
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36009137)
I would have "cried" because the EU's perfidious plan was to punish the UK for its impertinence by carving NI off.
It’s hardly a punishment. It solves the main concerns in Northern Ireland about security and cross border trade. They’d still live under a Union Flag and UK law. Meanwhile GB can get on with Brexit.

Sephiroth 06-09-2019 18:43
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009139)
It’s hardly a punishment. It solves the main concerns in Northern Ireland about security and cross border trade. They’d still live under a Union Flag and UK law. Meanwhile GB can get on with Brexit.
Your logic is clear and not contradictable. But to my mind and no doubt most others this "punishment" cannot be allowed. The EU must not be allowed to dictate to us.

nomadking 06-09-2019 18:48
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009139)
It’s hardly a punishment. It solves the main concerns in Northern Ireland about security and cross border trade. They’d still live under a Union Flag and UK law. Meanwhile GB can get on with Brexit.
Link
Quote:
That means that goods coming into Northern Ireland from elsewhere in the UK would need to be checked to see if they meet EU standards.
It would also involve a temporary single customs territory, effectively keeping the whole of the UK in the EU customs union.
These arrangements would apply unless and until both the EU and UK agree they are no longer necessary.

jfman 06-09-2019 18:53
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36009141)
Yes, that's the implementation thanks to the DUP.

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36009140)
Your logic is clear and not contradictable. But to my mind and no doubt most others this "punishment" cannot be allowed. The EU must not be allowed to dictate to us.
The UK could conceivably collapse anyway with no deal.

nomadking 06-09-2019 19:06
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36009142)
Yes, that's the implementation thanks to the DUP.

l.
:confused:


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