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-   -   Government & Post Election Discussion (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705028)

pip08456 02-05-2019 15:59
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35993124)
You would have thought governments would appoints someone with a proper all round knowledge and experience of the military.
Hold on Den, are you proposing governments should operate on common sense???

That's never going to happen!

denphone 02-05-2019 16:04
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35993131)
Hold on Den, are you proposing governments should operate on common sense???

That's never going to happen!
Something that is sadly lacking in British politics.

Angua 02-05-2019 17:03
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35993131)
Hold on Den, are you proposing governments should operate on common sense???

That's never going to happen!
All we have is dreams. :D

Hugh 02-05-2019 17:21
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35993121)
Yet another epic failure then.
You have to have a sense of humour, first...

Maggy 02-05-2019 17:45
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35993131)
Hold on Den, are you proposing governments should operate on common sense???

That's never going to happen!
Why the hell not? There are examples of governments that do like Iceland just off the top of my head.

Mr K 02-05-2019 18:05
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993018)
Whoever did leak, did right thing to bring the Huawei deal we’ve supposedly done in to public domain, who can honestly sit here and be comfortable with the concept of a private Chinese company, in which China’s government has its hand in, setting up the future 5G network in this country?

It’s like asking Russia to provide us with a super fast email service.
Yeah, but them Huaweis are great phones, they know what they are doing them Chinese.
Who knows how much spying those Apple products are doing ? (not on me as I'm a cheapskate ;) )

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35993057)
I would call him innocent until proven guilty.
Bit like Hillary Clinton then ?

Mick 02-05-2019 18:09
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993159)

Bit like Hillary Clinton then ?
Nah, she's definitely Crooked. (And we aren't discussing her any further in this thread btw).

1andrew1 02-05-2019 21:29
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35993057)
I would call him innocent until proven guilty.
The Government's investigation found him guilty.

Mr K 02-05-2019 21:51
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993222)
The Government's investigation found him guilty.
'Compelling Evidence' were the words which sounds like the equivalent of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. Lets face it the Govt. wouldn't create this mess for themselves if there was no other option.

Bit silly TM saying 'thats the end of the matter'. Bet she wishes it was, but that's up to the police/CPS, not her.

Mick 03-05-2019 00:21
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993222)
The Government's investigation found him guilty.
And you trust this governments word all of a sudden?

denphone 03-05-2019 04:29
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Major parties hit as voters turn to Lib Dems and independents in the local elections.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...131095/page/13

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48091592

Quote:
The Guardian and the BBC’s live results are both reporting losses for Labour and the Conservatives (as is Sky), though their tallies vary a little.
Quote:
The BBC’s latest tally with 71 of 248 councils declared has the changes as: Conservatives -169, Labour -57, Lib Dems +115, Ukip -25, Green +18, others +118.
Quote:
Anger over Brexit is being cited as one of the reasons for voters punishing the major parties.

Damien 03-05-2019 06:12
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Great night for the Liberals, Greens and Independents. Bad for everyone else pretty much.

denphone 03-05-2019 06:20
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Some initial thoughts by Professor Sir John Curtice.

Quote:
It looks as though the key message from the voters to the Conservatives and Labour is "a plague on both of your houses", as both of them find themselves losing both votes and seats on an extensive basis.

Even though the Labour Party is defending a relatively poor result in 2015, the party is not doing even as well as it did then.

So far the party has made a net loss of nearly 80 seats, while its vote is down on average by one point compared with 2015 in a collection of wards where the BBC has been collecting the detailed results, and by seven points as compared with last year's local election results.

The party lost control of Bolsover, Wirral, and Hartlepool... with only the capture of Trafford in compensation.

Meanwhile, although the results for the Conservatives so far are perhaps not as bad as they might have feared, their vote is down on average by six points compared with 2015

Mr K 03-05-2019 06:48
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Big gains for the pro Remain Lib Dems, what does that tell us ? Answers on a postcard ......

denphone 03-05-2019 06:52
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993244)
Big gains for the pro Remain Lib Dems, what does that tell us ? Answers on a postcard ......
You are the expert Mr K!! so you tell us.?..;)

Mick 03-05-2019 07:03
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993244)
Big gains for the pro Remain Lib Dems, what does that tell us ? Answers on a postcard ......
Dream on. Extremely low turnout saw Labour support drop, and with the Tories. We’re talking local elections here, which was said were not about Brexit. Labour lost a ton of seats in key leave areas, with local Labour council leaders blaming Labour for their Pro-2nd Referendum stance. So what’s that tell you? :rolleyes:

Had Brexit Party contested, we’d have seen them wipe out the two Mainstream Parties. Bring on European Elections.

denphone 03-05-2019 07:10
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
With just 108 out of 248 councils having declared so far here are the latest numbers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...councils#cards

Mr K 03-05-2019 07:21
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993247)
Dream on. Extremely low turnout saw Labour support drop, and with the Tories. We’re talking local elections here, which was said were not about Brexit. Labour lost a ton of seats in key leave areas, with local Labour council leaders blaming Labour for their Pro-2nd Referendum stance. So what’s that tell you? :rolleyes:

Had Brexit Party contested, we’d have seen them wipe out the two Mainstream Parties. Bring on European Elections.
Yes thank goodness we've still got the EU so we can have those elections ! ;)
Turnout was virtually the same as all local elections. Question is where did the Labour voters go - the Remain LibDems. May give Labour pause for thought.

Damien 03-05-2019 07:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Yeah the turnout not dropping much from the normal local voter turnout was a surprise

Mick 03-05-2019 07:38
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993250)
Yes thank goodness we've still got the EU so we can have those elections ! ;)
Turnout was virtually the same as all local elections. Question is where did the Labour voters go - the Remain LibDems. May give Labour pause for thought.
The corrupted EU will be sent a clear message when Brexit Party will be standing.

Stop getting your little hopes up. Both Tories and Labour Parties sent a clear message tonight, they got punished for their failure to get on with Brexit. There just was not any fresh choice to vote for anyone else.

Mr K 03-05-2019 07:40
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993254)
The corrupted EU will be sent a clear message when Brexit Party will be standing.

Stop getting your little hopes up. Both Tories and Labour Parties sent a clear message tonight, they got punished for their failure to get on with Brexit. There just was not any fresh choice to vote for anyone else.
UKIP have lost seats, just saying....

Hugh 03-05-2019 07:51
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48131095 (@07:47)

Quote:
Your morning summary
With 109 councils in England declared, Conservatives and Labour have faced a backlash with smaller parties and independents taking seats nationwide.

Liberal Democrats have gained eight councils and 271 councillors
Conservatives have lost 16 councils, won two and lost 396 councillors in total
Labour has lost three councils and won one, losing a total of 81 councillors
The Green Party has gained 36 councillors
UKIP has lost 54 councillors
Independents and smaller parties have added 224 councillors
I would have though UKIP would have got more votes...

Mick 03-05-2019 07:52
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993255)
UKIP have lost seats, just saying....
And quite rightly too- so have Labour, with their People’s Vote agenda- but UKIP-they are not the same party any more-You’re not very good at this are you?

Read the analysis. Tories and Labour have been heavily punished for not delivering Brexit. Had Brexit Party contested these locals, it would have been a wipeout for main parties, we’ll see this in European Parliamentary elections in a couple of weeks.

denphone 03-05-2019 07:52
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Jonathan Carr-West, chief executive of the LGiU, the local government thinktank, on what the results show so far.

Quote:
It’s looking like a pretty grim night for the Conservatives and Labour and a very good night for the Lib Dems.

The Conservatives were expecting to lose hundreds of seats and they have. But they’ve also lost control of 13 councils so far. Councils due to declare on Friday are more solidly Conservative, so they will be hoping that trend doesn’t continue; if it does, things could be even worse than they were expecting.

Things aren’t as bad for Labour. They have taken control of Trafford but they’re also losing seats and have lost control of Hartlepool and Wirral.

Labour and Conservative local leaders have angrily blamed the national parties for their losses.

Big winners are the Liberal Democrats, up hundreds of seats with surprise wins in Winchester, Chelmsford and Bath and North East Somerset.

Does this mean that remain voters are flocking to the Lib Dems while disillusioned Tory and Labour leave voters simply stay home? Perhaps. But we shouldn’t forget the salience of local issues. Campaigners around the country have been desperate to shift the debate on to local issues and have had some success.

These elections are not a glorified opinion poll, they’re about electing councillors who will make decisions about the local services people rely on.

Hugh 03-05-2019 07:56
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993258)
And quite rightly too- so have Labour, with their People’s Vote agenda- but UKIP-they are not the same party any more-You’re not very good at this are you?

Read the analysis. Tories and Labour have been heavily punished for not delivering Brexit. Had Brexit Party contested these locals, it would have been a wipeout for main parties, we’ll see this in European Parliamentary elections in a couple of weeks.
Then why have the parties who are strongly Remain done so well? (Greens, Lib Dems)

Are you saying Leave voters punished the Tories and Labour for not being "pro Leave" enough by voting for Remain parties?

Mick 03-05-2019 08:00
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993257)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48131095 (@07:47)



I would have though UKIP would have got more votes...
Why?

These are local elections, with very low turnouts.

denphone 03-05-2019 08:02
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993262)
Then why have the parties who are strongly Remain done so well? (Greens, Lib Dems)

Are you saying Leave voters punished the Tories and Labour for not being "pro Leave" enough by voting for Remain parties?
And they are likely to do this just as much if not more when we have the European elections according to polling guru Sir John Curtice with the big parties suffering considerably.

Mick 03-05-2019 08:02
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993262)
Then why have the parties who are strongly Remain done so well? (Greens, Lib Dems)

Are you saying Leave voters punished the Tories and Labour for not being "pro Leave" enough by voting for Remain parties?
No, I’m saying the Leave voters stayed at home, their party wasn’t standing. Bloody simple really. :rolleyes:

Maggy 03-05-2019 08:21
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Well let's look on the bright side. Maybe the new local councils will be better run.

Mr K 03-05-2019 08:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35993273)
Well let's look on the bright side. Maybe the new local councils will be better run.
No need for sarcasm Maggie ;)

Maggy 03-05-2019 08:26
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
No just pleased to see different political parties getting a chance to shine. Slightly fed up with the usual 2 horse race.

Mick 03-05-2019 08:28
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35993273)
Well let's look on the bright side. Maybe the new local councils will be better run.
Lib Dem’s actually do a pretty nifty job at local level, I was gutted when Labour took our local council many moons ago, how we have suffered since.

denphone 03-05-2019 08:34
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35993278)
No just pleased to see different political parties getting a chance to shine. Slightly fed up with the usual 2 horse race.
Especially when for the last three years both major parties have obfuscated and prevaricated repeatedly on a regular basis.

Mick 03-05-2019 08:41
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Labour’s Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell: “We’ll see what final results of local elections look like by end of day as they are pretty mixed geographically up to now but so far message from local elections- “Brexit - sort it.” Message received.”

Remainers hoping for second referendum, can kiss goodbye to this, if Corbyn allies run with this.

denphone 03-05-2019 08:43
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
There was never going to be a second referendum as that was just a pie in the sky delusion.

papa smurf 03-05-2019 09:49
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
My ballot paper had lab/con/ukip ,there was no way i was going to support lab/con so i stood a while and thought sod it ukip can have my vote,if the brexit party was on the ballot i would have gone straight to the box next to them and put my X in it.

anyhoo the conservatives won for the first time ever ousting Labour, lets hope that brings about change.



https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...nshire-2827069

OLD BOY 03-05-2019 10:27
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993262)
Then why have the parties who are strongly Remain done so well? (Greens, Lib Dems)

Are you saying Leave voters punished the Tories and Labour for not being "pro Leave" enough by voting for Remain parties?
The reason the Greens and Lib Dems have done so well is largely attributed to the fact that they are clearly Remainer parties.

There was nowhere else to go for Brexiteers as in most places the only alternative was the discredited UKIP.

The EU elections, if they happen, will show very clearly what people want, and the Brexit Party will be well ahead.

It is also more possible now that Labour may do a deal with the Conservatives on Brexit, given that both parties can see the way this is going. Quite how Labour will swallow not having the Customs Union, though, I am not so sure. Maybe a fudge to agree that the Withdrawal Agreement as set out provides for exactly that and both parties will work together to secure the long term trade agreement (which will not be worth the paper it's written on when May goes).

Chris 03-05-2019 11:33
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993262)
Then why have the parties who are strongly Remain done so well? (Greens, Lib Dems)

Are you saying Leave voters punished the Tories and Labour for not being "pro Leave" enough by voting for Remain parties?
John Curtice, high priest of pollsters, says there’s no evidence that people are switching to the Lib Dems out of Remain sentiment.



Guido Fawkes is finding that the LDs are doing well where they have historically been strong, have a well organised local operation and, in many cases, have totally avoided talking about Brexit or Vince Cable on the doorstep.

https://order-order.com/

papa smurf 03-05-2019 11:36
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993257)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48131095 (@07:47)



I would have though UKIP would have got more votes...
They didn't field as many candidates this time.

Maggy 03-05-2019 11:36
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Maybe some voters are fed up with what's been done or rather not done at local level. Maybe some can separate local politics from nationwide politics?

papa smurf 03-05-2019 11:39
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35993337)
Maybe some voters are fed up with what's been done or rather not done at local level. Maybe some can separate local politics from nationwide politics?
I think that's true, in my area people have had enough of the outgoing labour council who simply haven't listened to the people.

Mr K 03-05-2019 12:21
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35993293)
My ballot paper had lab/con/ukip ,there was no way i was going to support lab/con so i stood a while and thought sod it ukip can have my vote,if the brexit party was on the ballot i would have gone straight to the box next to them and put my X in it.

anyhoo the conservatives won for the first time ever ousting Labour, lets hope that brings about change.



https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...nshire-2827069
Nothing will ever change Grimsby ;)

papa smurf 03-05-2019 12:24
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993345)
Nothing will ever change Grimsby ;)
I live in Cleethorpes which shares the same council,the labour council have had a bad effect on Cleethorpes which is a predominately conservative town.

1andrew1 03-05-2019 13:55
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993232)
And you trust this governments word all of a sudden?
No reason for the Government to make this up. It's gained nothing from this unsavoury episode.
.

Mr K 03-05-2019 14:01
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35993346)
I live in Cleethorpes which shares the same council,the labour council have had a bad effect on Cleethorpes which is a predominately conservative town.
I see viewing the Greenwich Meridian Line is in the top 10 things to do in Cleethorpes. Must book a holiday there, sounds thrilling ;)
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attrac...e_England.html

TheDaddy 03-05-2019 14:27
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993282)
Labour’s Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell: “We’ll see what final results of local elections look like by end of day as they are pretty mixed geographically up to now but so far message from local elections- “Brexit - sort it.” Message received.”

Remainers hoping for second referendum, can kiss goodbye to this, if Corbyn allies run with this.
Wonder what that means for the talks, if compromise is reached and agreement made it'll pull the rug from under the brexit party

denphone 03-05-2019 14:38
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Here is the latest update with more than half of the council results in so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...glish-councils

heero_yuy 03-05-2019 14:52
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Quote from TheDaddy:

Wonder what that means for the talks, if compromise is reached and agreement made it'll pull the rug from under the brexit party
If it's some sort of shabby compromise that is BRINO then the Brexit party will get stronger on the back of the Westminster sellout.

As far as I can see the only thing that would deflate support would be a no deal exit.

1andrew1 03-05-2019 15:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993262)
Then why have the parties who are strongly Remain done so well? (Greens, Lib Dems)

Are you saying Leave voters punished the Tories and Labour for not being "pro Leave" enough by voting for Remain parties?
They punished them for entertaining a bad-deal Brexit and acknowledge that remaining is better than a bad deal whatever their politics.

denphone 03-05-2019 15:37
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Interesting analysis by Peter Barnes the BBC political analyst.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48131095

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48091592

Quote:
Our analysis indicates that both Conservative and Labour have lost ground heavily since last year's local elections when both were estimated to be on 35%.

This is only the second time that the projected national share has put Conservative and Labour below 30% - the last time we did so was in 2013 when UKIP secured a remarkable breakthrough in that year's local elections.

The Lib Dem performance represents a three-point increase on last year and is the party's highest projected share since the 2010 election, after which it entered the coalition with the Conservatives.

However, it is still below the performances that the party registered on a regular basis between 1993 and 2010, during which period the party's projected share never slipped below 24%.

Claims that this election represents the best Lib Dem performance ever thus needs treating with circumspection.

Mick 03-05-2019 15:38
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Theresa May, heckled as she remarks on Conservative Council losses last night....

"Why don't you resign?" and "We don't want you!".

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/...78893102473216

Mr K 03-05-2019 16:17
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993375)
Theresa May, heckled as she remarks on Conservative Council losses last night....

"Why don't you resign?" and "We don't want you!".

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/...78893102473216
Definitely a career as Panto villain beckons....

---------- Post added at 16:17 ---------- Previous post was at 16:01 ----------

Ooff, Baldrick isn't pulling any punches..
https://twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/st...472400898?s=20

denphone 03-05-2019 16:24
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993379)
Definitely a career as Panto villain beckons....

---------- Post added at 16:17 ---------- Previous post was at 16:01 ----------

Ooff, Baldrick isn't pulling any punches..
https://twitter.com/Tony_Robinson/st...472400898?s=20
Nor is Sajid Javid, the home secretary.

Quote:
Javid tells Tories to prepare for even worse results at European elections
Quote:
He added that the European elections “will be even more challenging”, saying the party should not be surprised “if people tick the protest box on the ballot paper.”

OLD BOY 03-05-2019 16:49
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35993390)
Nor is Sajid Javid, the home secretary.
The thing about the EU elections is that the country will not suffer if we elected a Cat Lovers' Party because MEPs don't have much sway over legislation anyway. This is actually a brilliant opportunity to get the message across to both the government and the EU without economic consequences for us.

A Brexit Party win will be a huge shock, despite the fact that everyone bar the MPs in parliament can see this coming a mile off. Do they really have to see it before they believe it? Seems so.:erm:.

---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993372)
They punished them for entertaining a bad-deal Brexit and acknowledge that remaining is better than a bad deal whatever their politics.
Not so. If the Brexit Party had stood in these elections, they would have made a huge impression.

Whereas the Remainers had specific anti-Brexit parties to vote for, Brexiteers had none.

1andrew1 03-05-2019 16:52
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993402)
Whereas the Remainers had specific anti-Brexit parties to vote for, Brexiteers had none.
They had UKIP and Conservative and probably the Labour Party too.

OLD BOY 03-05-2019 16:57
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993405)
They had UKIP and Conservative and probably the Labour Party too.
How do you expect Brexiteers to express dissatisfaction by voting Conservative or Labour? UKIP are a discredited party, too focussed on race and in any case did not stand in many areas.

As I said, the EU elections, if they happen, will be the real test.

Neither the Government nor the Opposition should be wanting those elections to go ahead.

denphone 03-05-2019 17:04
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
With 206 councils declared now out of 248 councils the Conservatives have now lost over a thousand Councillors while Labour have lost one hundred Councillors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48091592

Mr K 03-05-2019 17:14
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35993415)
With 206 councils declared now out of 248 councils the Conservatives have now lost over a thousand Councillors while Labour have lost one hundred Councillors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48091592
Very careless of them.

denphone 03-05-2019 17:20
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993417)
Very careless of them.
There's a message in there somewhere.;)

Mick 03-05-2019 18:34
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
BREAKING: Theresa May collects another unwanted record award just now - as she passes Tony Blair's 1,161 councillor losses in 1999 to suffer the biggest local election defeat in more than 20 years. Conservatives are Currently down 1,222 Seats.

TheDaddy 03-05-2019 19:16
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35993368)
If it's some sort of shabby compromise that is BRINO then the Brexit party will get stronger on the back of the Westminster sellout.

As far as I can see the only thing that would deflate support would be a no deal exit.
Was thinking more of their strategy for the EU elections and then those elections being removed but yes it probably wouldn't be more than a minor setback to them

1andrew1 03-05-2019 19:41
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993407)
How do you expect Brexiteers to express dissatisfaction by voting Conservative or Labour? UKIP are a discredited party, too focussed on race and in any case did not stand in many areas.

As I said, the EU elections, if they happen, will be the real test.

Neither the Government nor the Opposition should be wanting those elections to go ahead.
You said they had no pro-Brexit parties to vote for which was clearly wrong. You are now posing a different question.

---------- Post added at 19:41 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35993435)
BREAKING: Theresa May collects another unwanted record award just now - as she passes Tony Blair's 1,161 councillor losses in 1999 to suffer the biggest local election defeat in more than 20 years. Conservatives are Currently down 1,222 Seats.
Serves her right for setting down those ridiculous red lines and panicking by hitting the red A50 button without a plan.

OLD BOY 04-05-2019 01:50
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993405)
They had UKIP and Conservative and probably the Labour Party too.
You are comletely wrong, and you know it. If I am a Conservative and want to protest, where do I go? UKIP is discredited and doesn't even field candidates in many areas.

If we have EU elections, we will have a Brexit Party. Maybe that will help you get a better perspective of what the British actually think of the EU.

---------- Post added at 01:46 ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993417)
Very careless of them.
It was to be expected. The hard Brexit we wanted has not been delivered.

Sorry if that doesn't fit into your mindset! ;)

---------- Post added at 01:50 ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993453)
You said they had no pro-Brexit parties to vote for which was clearly wrong. You are now posing a different
What were the pro-Brexit parties then, Andrew? If we had one in my area, I must have missed it!

Don't talk about UKIP. They are an extremist party that I most certainly wouldn't vote for. You are clutching at straws now.

Angua 04-05-2019 07:14
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
People seem to be ignoring all the Independent candidates who got elected. Many of whom are ex Tories who were either de-selected for not toeing the party line, or who left over Tory handling of Brexit. Same applies to former Labour Independents.

With Labours fence squatting, they were also a possible home for protesting Brexit Tories, which may explain why Labour did not do as badly as Tories. The opposite may also explain the Tories success in North East Derbyshire.

One thing that should not be forgotten, is the strong remain areas of Scotland & London were not holding elections.

Maggy 04-05-2019 08:36
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
How about NOT using local elections as a form of protest but approach them along the lines of seeing who will actually do something about LOCAL issues? All those new councillors won't be having much to do with brexit or remain at local level so let's hope that they will be concentrating on rubbish collections,potholes other local issues.

Sephiroth 04-05-2019 09:05
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35993524)
How about NOT using local elections as a form of protest but approach them along the lines of seeing who will actually do something about LOCAL issues? All those new councillors won't be having much to do with brexit or remain at local level so let's hope that they will be concentrating on rubbish collections,potholes other local issues.
What else but local issues would the new councillors be dealing with?

There is an obvious distinction between a voter whose motives were X and a sympathising councillor whose tasks are y.

Maggy 04-05-2019 10:42
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35993528)
What else but local issues would the new councillors be dealing with?

There is an obvious distinction between a voter whose motives were X and a sympathising councillor whose tasks are y.
Well the spin I put on it previously was that not everyone voted with Brexit in mind but as our esteemed PM(and others on this forum) thinks it's all about Brexit I'm suggesting that local elections are not the time to protest about national issues.That's all I'm suggesting.

nashville 04-05-2019 11:02
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Country is in such a mess, would put you off voting for anyone, That goes for all parties,

Mr K 04-05-2019 11:34
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 35993542)
Country is in such a mess, would put you off voting for anyone, That goes for all parties,
A candidate for the 'Fancy Dress Party' once stood in my area. I was really tempted to vote for them, their clown outfit seemed appropriate for the job....

1andrew1 04-05-2019 12:07
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Interesting analysis from ITV's Robert Peston

Quote:
These numbers still have to be verified. But what is striking is that even in strongly Leave areas, there was a pronounced swing from Labour to the Remainy LibDems and Greens. Which gives the lie to view among Labour Brexiters that Labour did badly for not being Brexity enough.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1124270222184275970

Mr K 04-05-2019 12:18
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993556)
Interesting analysis from ITV's Robert Peston


https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1124270222184275970
Slowly but surely, the public are seeing sense and through the lies,/self interested Brexiter politicians. The longer this drags on, the more it will go in that direction. Hence the paranoia about another vote.

mrmistoffelees 04-05-2019 19:14
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993559)
Slowly but surely, the public are seeing sense and through the lies,/self interested Brexiter politicians. The longer this drags on, the more it will go in that direction. Hence the paranoia about another vote.
As much as I want the above to be true, if that’s the case why is the Brexit party polling so high?

Hugh 04-05-2019 19:18
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35993616)
As much as I want the above to be true, if that’s the case why is the Brexit party polling so high?
Because they have a very simple message, uncluttered by other issues (such as running a country or what will happen afterwards) - get out of the E.U.

Chris 04-05-2019 19:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Yesterday, I posted a link to a report that confirmed local Lib Dem activists' strategy, in places like uber-Leave Sunderland, was not to mention Brexit at all. I also posted a link to a video in which demigod pollster John Curtice poured cold water on the idea that voters were voting for remain parties, but rather were simply voting against Labour or Tories and transferring their vote to whichever was the strongest/most visible alternative in any given area.

Oddly, most remain-minded people posting in this thread have chosen to completely ignore these inconvenient truths spoken by actual Lib Dem activists and an actual polling expert and choose to focus on the much more palatable musings of a journalist instead.

Mr K 04-05-2019 19:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993617)
Because they have a very simple message, uncluttered by other issues (such as running a country or what will happen afterwards) - get out of the E.U.
Yes. Not heard much about their policy on health, education etc. Suspect it's very right wing which might alienate a lot of their potential support in the long run. Look at what's happened to UKIP.

Sephiroth 04-05-2019 20:04
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35993540)
Well the spin I put on it previously was that not everyone voted with Brexit in mind but as our esteemed PM(and others on this forum) thinks it's all about Brexit I'm suggesting that local elections are not the time to protest about national issues.That's all I'm suggesting.
… But people do and no telling them otherwise would change that.

OLD BOY 04-05-2019 20:14
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993617)
Because they have a very simple message, uncluttered by other issues (such as running a country or what will happen afterwards) - get out of the E.U.
Yes, but people wouldn't be voting for the Brexit Party if they wanted to remain in the EU, would they? As such, it is a good barometer of the public mood.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993621)
Yes. Not heard much about their policy on health, education etc. Suspect it's very right wing which might alienate a lot of their potential support in the long run. Look at what's happened to UKIP.
Being a Brexiteer doesn't make you right wing!

Sephiroth 04-05-2019 20:32
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
The EU elections, if they occur, would make a reasonable referendum, especially if the turnout is high.

You can group the remain type parties, e.g. Lib-Dems, Greens, Change UK; the leave type partiers, e.g. Brexit, UKIP, Conservatives, Labour.

Mr K 04-05-2019 21:53
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35993634)
The EU elections, if they occur, would make a reasonable referendum, especially if the turnout is high.

You can group the remain type parties, e.g. Lib-Dems, Greens, Change UK; the leave type partiers, e.g. Brexit, UKIP, Conservatives, Labour.
A bit cheeky old chap, the Conservatives and Labour break both ways as you know ;)

Hugh 04-05-2019 22:39
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993626)
Yes, but people wouldn't be voting for the Brexit Party if they wanted to remain in the EU, would they? As such, it is a good barometer of the public mood.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------



Being a Brexiteer doesn't make you right wing!
They have played a very good game - vote for us if you want to leave; simple, not capable of nuance or misinterpretation- they leave the hard part to someone else when it comes to the implementation, and can wash their hands of it if it goes wrong.

The other parties have mixed messages (except Greens and Lib Dems), so can expect to split their votes.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993621)
Yes. Not heard much about their policy on health, education etc. Suspect it's very right wing which might alienate a lot of their potential support in the long run. Look at what's happened to UKIP.
They actually don’t have a manifesto for the E.U. Elections, and don’t intend to produce one - why should they, as they have (for this election) a very simple and direct message, and don’t want to muddy the waters.

Mr K 05-05-2019 00:28
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993643)
They have played a very good game - vote for us if you want to leave; simple, not capable of nuance or misinterpretation- they leave the hard part to someone else when it comes to the implementation, and can wash their hands of it if it goes wrong.

The other parties have mixed messages (except Greens and Lib Dems), so can expect to split their votes.

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

They actually don’t have a manifesto for the E.U. Elections, and don’t intend to produce one - why should they, as they have (for this election) a very simple and direct message, and don’t want to muddy the waters.
Yes the Brexit Party are very simple. The enquiring voter might want to investigate their candidates and policies a bit more.

OLD BOY 05-05-2019 01:17
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993643)
They have played a very good game - vote for us if you want to leave; simple, not capable of nuance or misinterpretation- they leave the hard part to someone else when it comes to the implementation, and can wash their hands of it if it goes wrong.

The other parties have mixed messages (except Greens and Lib Dems), so can expect to split their votes.[COLOR="Silver"]
So, they will vote Change UK, won't they?

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35993643)
They actually don’t have a manifesto for the E.U. Elections, and don’t intend to produce one - why should they, as they have (for this election) a very simple and direct message, and don’t want to muddy the waters.
There's nothing wrong with that - the objective is to leave the EU.

Nothing is lost because MEPs don't have much influence on policy anyway.

Hugh 05-05-2019 09:03
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993652)
So, they will vote Change UK, won't they?

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------



There's nothing wrong with that - the objective is to leave the EU.

Nothing is lost because MEPs don't have much influence on policy anyway.
No, because in a reasonably large number of cases, people will vote for a donkey if it has a red or blue rosette.

Leave voters, on the whole, tend to be more passionate and want to "stick it to the man" (imho).

Damien 05-05-2019 11:59
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Also Labour voters are more tribal so the mixed messaging will still be enough for their supporters to back them. Labour are a vote for both Remain AND Leave due to their absurd fence-sitting.

1andrew1 05-05-2019 12:29
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993652)
So, they will vote Change UK, won't they?
Change UK is quite a centrist party and includes some ex-Conservatives too. That may not appeal to more traditional Labour Party supporters who may decide instead to push more for the party to support a People's Vote.

OLD BOY 05-05-2019 12:54
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35993692)
Also Labour voters are more tribal so the mixed messaging will still be enough for their supporters to back them. Labour are a vote for both Remain AND Leave due to their absurd fence-sitting.
You could say the same for the Conservative vote as well. Not all Conservatives are Brexiteers any more than Labour supporters are. Remember, both parties have been running on manifestos that they will deliver Brexit. There are many Labour voters outside of London who want to get the hell out of the EU.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993699)
Change UK is quite a centrist party and includes some ex-Conservatives too. That may not appeal to more traditional Labour Party supporters who may decide instead to push more for the party to support a People's Vote.
Change UK is left of my central ground!

Damien 05-05-2019 21:08
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993702)
You could say the same for the Conservative vote as well. Not all Conservatives are Brexiteers any more than Labour supporters are.
I don't think Conservative voters identify with their choice of party in the same way some Labour voters do. I also think a lot of Brexiters are pretty clear where they stand with the Tories whereas Remain Labour voters are still giving the leadership the benefit of the doubt.

Corbyn could come out burning an EU flag whilst demanding the channel tunnel be closed off and his supporters would still say he is playing the 'long game'.

Mr K 05-05-2019 21:25
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35993810)
I don't think Conservative voters identify with their choice of party in the same way some Labour voters do. I also think a lot of Brexiters are pretty clear where they stand with the Tories whereas Remain Labour voters are still giving the leadership the benefit of the doubt.

Corbyn could come out burning an EU flag whilst demanding the channel tunnel be closed off and his supporters would still say he is playing the 'long game'.
His core supporters are a minority of Labour support though. As they found out in the Local elections when they lost a lot of votes to the Lib Dems/Greens, who have a clear message on Brexit, unlike the 2 main parties.

Angua 06-05-2019 07:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993817)
His core supporters are a minority of Labour support though. As they found out in the Local elections when they lost a lot of votes to the Lib Dems/Greens, who have a clear message on Brexit, unlike the 2 main parties.
Labour MPs say they won't back a deal without a peoples vote.

The main thing that can be said about the local election results, it is NOT a signal that the government needs to get on with Brexit.

OLD BOY 06-05-2019 08:45
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35993841)
Labour MPs say they won't back a deal without a peoples vote.

The main thing that can be said about the local election results, it is NOT a signal that the government needs to get on with Brexit.
You will find it difficult to argue that a convincing Brexit win at the EU elections does not give us the lie of the land.

Angua 06-05-2019 09:03
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993846)
You will find it difficult to argue that a convincing Brexit win at the EU elections does not give us the lie of the land.
The hype has to be repeated at the ballot box yet.

Sephiroth 06-05-2019 10:41
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35993846)
You will find it difficult to argue that a convincing Brexit win at the EU elections does not give us the lie of the land.
Problem with that will be the definition of ‘convincing’. The demography will be pulled to pieces by the Curtice and political parties and nothing will change in the Brexit melting pot.

I suppose something over 60% for the Brexit Party would be the starting point for indicativeness. But then it would need to be based on a high turnout to be meaningful.

1andrew1 06-05-2019 11:47
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35993841)
Labour MPs say they won't back a deal without a peoples vote.

The main thing that can be said about the local election results, it is NOT a signal that the government needs to get on with Brexit.
I think May and Corbyn would have said that the result was a message to get on with Brexit regardless of whether their vote increased or decreased!

Sephiroth 06-05-2019 11:57
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993876)
I think May and Corbyn would have said that the result was a message to get on with Brexit regardless of whether their vote increased or decreased!
...... and would still have either Head’s stuck in the sand or playing political games or both.

ianch99 06-05-2019 16:59
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35993649)
Yes the Brexit Party are very simple. The enquiring voter might want to investigate their candidates and policies a bit more.
They have no policies :) Hey, when is that an obstacle to standing as a candidate in a democratic election.

Angua 06-05-2019 18:27
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35993876)
I think May and Corbyn would have said that the result was a message to get on with Brexit regardless of whether their vote increased or decreased!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35993877)
...... and would still have either Head’s stuck in the sand or playing political games or both.
Yup..

Mick 06-05-2019 18:36
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
Right - enough about Brexit in this thread now please - we are not having two threads on one subject. We're cross posting all the time and it's getting ridiculous. It's inevitable that Brexit may crop up but, if your comment or post is mainly about Brexit, then it goes in Brexit thread. Government and Pre or Post Election issues in this one.

denphone 11-05-2019 18:15
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
The latest Westminster voting intention.

Quote:
LAB: 28% (-5)
CON: 22% (-5)
BREX: 21% (+4)
LDEM: 11% (+5)
GRN: 6% (+2)
UKIP: 4% (-)
via @OpiniumResearch, 08 May

Chris 11-05-2019 18:23
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
The existence of the Brexit party is really muddying the waters now. It’s by no means clear that they would contest a general election, nor is it an easy matter to work out what that potential national vote share would look like constituency by constituency, as they’ve never stood for election before.

The electoral landscape is such that I think the chances of there being one before the 5-year term is up is minimal.

denphone 11-05-2019 18:33
Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 
l think its quite clear that we are living in very volatile political times so its hard to know what will happen come the next General Election.


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