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-   -   Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered ! (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704414)

jonbxx 23-06-2017 09:37
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904461)
is it groundhog day again
It does go round in circles, I agree! However, I have yet to see any compelling evidence that we would be safer and more successful not being a member of these institutions. Even if we leave the EU, membership of many of these institutes is surely a good thing? If yes, then a hard brexit must be off the table

papa smurf 23-06-2017 09:53
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35904463)
It does go round in circles, I agree! However, I have yet to see any compelling evidence that we would be safer and more successful not being a member of these institutions. Even if we leave the EU, membership of many of these institutes is surely a good thing? If yes, then a hard brexit must be off the table
there is no hard soft or fluffy there is just leave the EU, that's what won the vote in the remain in the EU or leave the EU referendum .

Mick 23-06-2017 10:44
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904461)
is it groundhog day again
So true and it's tiring watching the same repeated negative drivel from certain individual(s).

Think I will just leave this here. ;)



---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35904463)
It does go round in circles, I agree! However, I have yet to see any compelling evidence that we would be safer and more successful not being a member of these institutions. Even if we leave the EU, membership of many of these institutes is surely a good thing? If yes, then a hard brexit must be off the table
You put across a more reasonble assertion for why remaining a member of those institutions. But I consider a hard brexit in the form of leaving the Brussels realm of authority and one where we can control our borders to stop unskilled and criminal elements of the EU, i.e the riff raff coming here.

jonbxx 23-06-2017 10:45
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
So no answers then...

Mick 23-06-2017 10:46
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35904494)
So no answers then...
About what ?

jonbxx 23-06-2017 11:23
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904495)
About what ?
Apologies, you posted an answer to my question about remaining or leaving EU institutions while I was posting :)

A Hard Brexit to me mirrors what Rizzyking said - 'no official connection to the EU anymore'. That would include leaving the EU institutions I listed before and it this I struggle to see any benefit to. Your comment about it being reasonable to remain in those institutions is a softer option.

I think Brexit means different things to different people and 'Hard' and 'Soft' Brexit terms are nuanced and often misleading depending on their priorities. For example, I see you want to keep the riff raff out, so ending the freedom of movement seems most important (of course, Directive 2004/38 sections 9 and 22 allowed this already, the UK Government just never exercised their rights under the directive)

Mick 23-06-2017 11:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35904504)
Apologies, you posted an answer to my question about remaining or leaving EU institutions while I was posting :)

A Hard Brexit to me mirrors what Rizzyking said - 'no official connection to the EU anymore'. That would include leaving the EU institutions I listed before and it this I struggle to see any benefit to. Your comment about it being reasonable to remain in those institutions is a softer option.

I think Brexit means different things to different people and 'Hard' and 'Soft' Brexit terms are nuanced and often misleading depending on their priorities. For example, I see you want to keep the riff raff out, so ending the freedom of movement seems most important (of course, Directive 2004/38 sections 9 and 22 allowed this already, the UK Government just never exercised their rights under the directive)
This is just it. I am totally for people coming here who have something to contribute, i.e. Skills that we can value. But open access to ALL EU migrants has to end IMO. We cannot keep sustaining 100,000's of immigrants every year.

RizzyKing 23-06-2017 14:22
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
We can't pick and choose what we stay part of even if we wanted to the EU wouldn't allow it but agreements on many aspects will be reached as it's beneficial to both parties unless the EU want to play hardball. If they choose to do that it will validate my decision to vote leave as clearly it is an organisation that doesn't have the best interests of the citizens foremost in it's priorities. Amongst other things that was one of my big reasons for voting leave I don't believe the good and wellbeing of the citizenry is the driving force behind the EU anymore it's an organisation dedicated to a political end whether that works out for us ordinary people or not. The rush to enlarge was another reason and the EU's pushing of russia which along with obama and clinton had she won into a corner was a precarious situation us voting for brexit and the USA electing trump has caused a pause and allowed cooler heads to consider things more.

Will there be beneficial aspects of the EU we will lose yes of course there will be but the advantages we will gain from complete sovereign decision making that is for the best interests of the UK rather then a bloc will pay dividends over the medium to longterm. It isn't going to be an easy or smooth road in the short term but we will come through that period and then be better placed to take advantage of true global trade and diplomacy. For those saying our influence will further deteriorate it may or may not but given that our influence has been declining for decades it isn't an aspect that was high on my personal influences in voting and i believe our government being able to make unilateral decisions will increase our standing depending on those decisions of course.

Staying within the EU or leaving both choices had their risks and negative consequences but in my mind there was a better chance for sustained prosperity for my kids and their kids in leaving.

Uncle Peter 23-06-2017 15:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Tusk having the audacity to tell reporters that May's immigration offer is "below expectations"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40378913

Tusk won't be there long as he's been summoned back to Warsaw to give evidence relating to his son's involvement in a crooked Ponzi scheme that failed. Another more serious matter where he will face questions over an alleged cover up and collusion between the Polish secret service and the Russians over the plane crash which killed Lech Kaczynski.

Being stitched up will be hugely popular in his home country where he's widely despised.

https://www.ft.com/content/c3bae2a7-...9be9a?mhq5j=e2

ianch99 23-06-2017 16:05
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35904504)
For example, I see you want to keep the riff raff out, so ending the freedom of movement seems most important (of course, Directive 2004/38 sections 9 and 22 allowed this already, the UK Government just never exercised their rights under the directive)
Can you elaborate on this point? The whole leave campaign was founded on the proposition that we cannot control freedom of movement under any circumstances whilst a member?

1andrew1 23-06-2017 18:06
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904551)
Can you elaborate on this point? The whole leave campaign was founded on the proposition that we cannot control freedom of movement under any circumstances whilst a member?
Yes. We do have border controls except with Ireland. The amount of time I've spent in airports shows we do have control of our borders.
If we don't take advantage of legislation to deport those not supporting themselves or have committed criminal acts that's not the EU's fault. But some on this forum don't appreciate this basic point.

Ramrod 23-06-2017 18:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904255)
A Swiss perspective on where we are now:

(Brexiteers, best look away now)

THE LAUGHING STOCK OF EUROPE
That's one persons opinion :shrug:

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35904259)
You didn't vote for a hard Brexit David, no one did, the term hadn't been made up when we voted.
You are correct. remoaners made the term up in an effort to thwart Brexit.....or 'hard brexit' as they call it......'soft brexit' not actually being brexit or indeed what we voted for

Pierre 23-06-2017 18:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35904565)
Yes. We do have border controls except with Ireland.
No we don't.

We may not be part of the Schengen agreement, which is totally borderless, which does mean that we have passport control which means we can stop "known" wanted persons or other "known" undesirables but we cannot stop anyone from other EU states from freely entering the country.

Osem 23-06-2017 19:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904566)
That's one persons opinion :shrug:
It's weird how some folks are only too willing to cite such an opinion whilst refusing to listen to the opinions of the 52% of the electorate here who voted to leave the EU. :spin:

I reckon they'll listen to any opinion which confirms what they think/want and couldn't give a stuff about the views of the majority. They accept democracy only when it yields the result they want. Pathetic.

denphone 23-06-2017 19:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904566)
That's one persons opinion :shrug:
As is yours , mine and everybody else's.;)

Osem 23-06-2017 21:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Peter (Post 35904543)
Tusk having the audacity to tell reporters that May's immigration offer is "below expectations"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40378913

Tusk won't be there long as he's been summoned back to Warsaw to give evidence relating to his son's involvement in a crooked Ponzi scheme that failed. Another more serious matter where he will face questions over an alleged cover up and collusion between the Polish secret service and the Russians over the plane crash which killed Lech Kaczynski.

Being stitched up will be hugely popular in his home country where he's widely despised.

https://www.ft.com/content/c3bae2a7-...9be9a?mhq5j=e2
What gets me is that these Eurocrats reckon we're the ones who're arrogant. It's beyond paraody really yet there are people here who lap this sort of nonsense up. My god some people are thick.

It shouldn't be necessary to point this out but sadly it clearly is. The EU is likely to denigrate every offer the UK makes because in so doing they'll be hoping to secure yet more concessions from the UK whilst offering little or nothing in return.

May has made an offer to secure migrants' rights and she gets lambasted by the usual suspects when the likes of Tusk have offered nothing. :nutter:

TheDaddy 23-06-2017 22:34
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904566)
That's one persons opinion :shrug:

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

You are correct. remoaners made the term up in an effort to thwart Brexit.....or 'hard brexit' as they call it......'soft brexit' not actually being brexit or indeed what we voted for
I heard some liberal lord droning on earlier about it being right for the people to have the final say on the deal which I agree with but where his lordship and I differ is that he seemed to be saying if we didn't like the deal we'd stay in where as I thought if we didn't like the deal offered we'd just leave without one, silly old duffer, clutching at straws

jonbxx 24-06-2017 07:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904551)
Can you elaborate on this point? The whole leave campaign was founded on the proposition that we cannot control freedom of movement under any circumstances whilst a member?
Sure, no problems. The directive which discusses the free movement of people states that free movement of labour one of the central tenets of the EU (free movement of goods, services and labour)

However, the directive also states that immigrants must be self supporting and there is a 3 month time limit after which an immigrant, if they have not found a job, can be asked to leave the country. Now, to put a bit of balance here, there is nothing to stop them just circling around and coming back but the clause is there.

In addition, any country can refuse admission based on 'public policy, public security or public health'. It's all a bit fluffy and these could be challenged but the mechanisms are there to prevent admission.

Belgium are pretty vigorous on using these rules. All EU migrants are required to register and the three month limit to find jobs is enforced. Unregistered migrants are deported.

Basically, we had the ability to 'chuck the riff raff out' but never exercised those rights

Pierre 24-06-2017 08:33
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35904613)
However, the directive also states that immigrants must be self supporting and there is a 3 month time limit after which an immigrant, if they have not found a job, can be asked to leave the country.
Providing you know where all the 600,000 or so are? So we can ask them to leave.

Quote:
Now, to put a bit of balance here, there is nothing to stop them just circling around and coming back but the clause is there.
Exactly, so you spend milllions tracking them, deporting them and they just waltz back in and you can do nothing about it.

Quote:
In addition, any country can refuse admission based on 'public policy, public security or public health'. It's all a bit fluffy and these could be challenged but the mechanisms are there to prevent admission.
pretty much unenforceable within the Schengen zone - which we're not it thankfully

Quote:
Belgium are pretty vigorous on using these rules. All EU migrants are required to register and the three month limit to find jobs is enforced. Unregistered migrants are deported.
As I say pretty much unenforceable within Schengen

Quote:
Basically, we had the ability to 'chuck the riff raff out' but never exercised those rights
Back to the previous comment, why spend millions registering, tracking and deporting EU nationals when they can just hop on the next train back and there's nothing we can do.

ianch99 24-06-2017 11:12
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904508)
This is just it. I am totally for people coming here who have something to contribute, i.e. Skills that we can value. But open access to ALL EU migrants has to end IMO. We cannot keep sustaining 100,000's of immigrants every year.
You are implying that these 100,000's of immigrants are EU only. More net migration comes from outside of the EU:

Net Migration Statistics

Quote:
Migration by Citizenship

5. The International Passenger Survey records the nationality of those interviewed so estimates of migration by citizenship can be produced. Table 1 below shows a breakdown of the latest figures.

More British citizens leave the country than arrive. EU net migration is currently 133,000 compared to 175,000 from outside the EU.

Table 1: Latest Migration Statistics, Year Ending December 2016
All Citizenships British Non-British EU Non-EU
Immigration 588,000 74,000 514,000 250,000 264,000
Emigration 339,000 134,000 206,000 117,000 88,000
Net Migration 248,000 -60,000 308,000 133,000 175,000

Ramrod 24-06-2017 12:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35904577)
It's weird how some folks are only too willing to cite such an opinion whilst refusing to listen to the opinions of the 52% of the electorate here who voted to leave the EU. :spin:
:rofl: :tu: :D

Mick 24-06-2017 12:04
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904635)
You are implying that these 100,000's of immigrants are EU only. More net migration comes from outside of the EU:

Net Migration Statistics
I was actually implying that the open access as in EU Nationals ending and them freely able to travel around the EU.

Non-EU migration is also the big issue but they, as it stands, they are not freely able to travel here, however, what you have highlighted is the rather shambolic efforts to keep immigration numbers down to the 10's of thousand but then when word is passed round that Britains streets are paved with gold and there are new reports that migrants are turning up in and settling in Calais again.

Ramrod 24-06-2017 12:07
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904579)
As is yours , mine and everybody else's.;)
But mine is backed up by a 52% majority vote :D

---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35904613)
Unregistered migrants are deported.
If they tear up their documents we can't deport them :shrug:

denphone 24-06-2017 12:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904643)
But mine is backed up by a 52% majority vote :D
l am talking about many subjects and threads in general.:):D

Ramrod 24-06-2017 12:29
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904649)
l am talking about many subjects and threads in general.:):D
I know. I was being deliberately difficult :D

papa smurf 24-06-2017 12:30
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904650)
I know. I was being deliberately difficult :D
that's not like you:rofl:

denphone 24-06-2017 12:37
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904650)
I know. I was being deliberately difficult :D
No amount of difficult self opinionators ;) on this forum and that possibly might include me.;):D

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904651)
that's not like you:rofl:
l thought he was taking over from the numero uno.;):D

papa smurf 24-06-2017 12:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904652)
No amount of difficult self opinionators ;) on this forum and that possibly might include me.;):D

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 ----------



l thought he was taking over from the numero uno.;):D
i don't normally have opinions but when i do i'm always right :D

Ramrod 24-06-2017 18:18
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904655)
i don't normally have opinions but when i do i'm always right :D
I'd ask if we're married but the wife often has opinions and is always right. :D

denphone 24-06-2017 19:07
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904688)
I'd ask if we're married but the wife often has opinions and is always right. :D
You mean she is never wrong but alright right.;):D

ianch99 24-06-2017 23:44
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35904641)
:rofl: :tu: :D
You forgot the Dunce's Hat :) As you well know, it was 37% of the electorate that voted to Leave ...

papa smurf 25-06-2017 08:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904700)
You forgot the Dunce's Hat :) As you well know, it was 37% of the electorate that voted to Leave ...
but 52% of those who tore themselves away from the sofa and actually voted , the can't be arsed brigade don't count in a vote .

it's time to let go stop clinging onto this pathetic idea that remain was victorious because some people never voted

it's been over a year now since the country voted to leave and still some can't accept it perhaps the government should offer free therapy sessions to the klingon's

ianch99 25-06-2017 09:29
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904717)
but 52% of those who tore themselves away from the sofa and actually voted , the can't be arsed brigade don't count in a vote .

it's time to let go stop clinging onto this pathetic idea that remain was victorious because some people never voted

it's been over a year now since the country voted to leave and still some can't accept it perhaps the government should offer free therapy sessions to the klingon's
Rant over? Just keeping you honest .. :) and correcting others mistakes :cool:

Mick 25-06-2017 09:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904700)
You forgot the Dunce's Hat :) As you well know, it was 37% of the electorate that voted to Leave ...
You should be wearing it, seeing as you keep bringing that same old stuff up.

You cannot bring into the argument about people who abstained, people who did not get off their arse to vote.

So preach all these silly percentages all you want.

Basic maths 101 dictates that 17.4 Million votes beats 16.1 Million. ;)

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904720)
Rant over? Just keeping you honest .. :) and correcting others mistakes :cool:
Where? When ? Not seen any mistakes corrected ! :dozey:

denphone 25-06-2017 10:36
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904722)
You should be wearing it, seeing as you keep bringing that same old stuff up.

You cannot bring into the argument about people who abstained, people who did not get off their arse to vote.

So preach all these silly percentages all you want.

Basic maths 101 dictates that 17.4 Million votes beats 16.1 Million. ;)[COLOR="Silver"]
What happened happened as one should accept democracy and the results of it whether one likes it or not as l did not vote for it but have completely accepted that it is going to happen although l will certainly not put my faith in politicians to deliver it as people hope and imagine what it is going to be like because l think personally they are going to be pretty disappointed with the final outcome of it sadly.

pip08456 25-06-2017 11:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904737)
What happened happened as one should accept democracy and the results of it whether one likes it or not as l did not vote for it but have completely accepted that it is going to happen although l will certainly not put my faith in politicians to deliver it as people hope and imagine what it is going to be like because l think personally they are going to be pretty disappointed with the final outcome of it sadly.
Who do you think are the one's who're going to be disappointed den? Those like yourself who have accepted the vote or those like myself who voted for Brexit?

denphone 25-06-2017 11:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904748)
Who do you think are the one's who're going to be disappointed den? Those like yourself who have accepted the vote or those like myself who voted for Brexit?
Those who voted for Brexit as to what they voted for and what gets delivered actually by politicians who some put their faith in is likely to be quite different.

Me and my family and many others and even many of those who voted for Brexit will just carry on with our lives regardless as l suspect as life is too short to worry about that IMO.

pip08456 25-06-2017 11:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
We can only wait and see.

papa smurf 25-06-2017 11:52
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904750)
We can only wait and see.
if they don't deliver there will be trouble

denphone 25-06-2017 12:01
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904751)
if they don't deliver there will be trouble
l just knew it was a matter of time before your very temporary hibernation from this forum ended.;):D

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904751)
if they don't deliver there will be trouble
They have to survive first and that is looking more precarious by the day.

papa smurf 25-06-2017 19:27
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
'Thanks to Gina Miller there's no going back!' Brexit now enshrined in law, says Rees-Mogg

LEADING Brexiteer MP Jacob Rees Mogg has revealed Leave campaigners must thank Gina Miller for pushing Article 50 past the point of no return.

The Conservative MP for North East Somerset joked that Gina Miller "did a lot for the Brexit cause" by pushing the process beyond the point of no return.

Jacob Rees-Mogg has thanked Gina Miller on behalf of all Brexiteers, revealing that her efforts to stop Brexit has enshrined the country's departure from the EU into UK law.

well done windy miller ;)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/821...exit-Rees-Mogg

Paul 25-06-2017 22:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
LOL, serves her right.

Mick 25-06-2017 22:35
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Rees-Mogg very intelligent MP.... very witty and very Brexity :D .

ianch99 25-06-2017 23:45
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904722)
You should be wearing it, seeing as you keep bringing that same old stuff up.

You cannot bring into the argument about people who abstained, people who did not get off their arse to vote.

So preach all these silly percentages all you want.

Basic maths 101 dictates that 17.4 Million votes beats 16.1 Million. ;)

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------



Where? When ? Not seen any mistakes corrected ! :dozey:
Same old crap. If people are going to lie about what happened, I will keep correcting them. It is called honesty.

Osem said:

Quote:
whilst refusing to listen to the opinions of the 52% of the electorate here who voted to leave the EU.
Even you can see this is incorrect or maybe you can't? Correct statement, Yes or No?

pip08456 25-06-2017 23:51
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904835)
Same old crap. If people are going to lie about what happened, I will keep correcting them. It is called honesty.

Osem said:
whilst refusing to listen to the opinions of the 52% of the electorate here who voted.


Even you can see this is incorrect or maybe you can't? Correct statement, Yes or No?
You judge and be wrong as usual. I have removed 3 words from Osem's post to try and get through to you how your argument fails.

1andrew1 26-06-2017 00:17
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904836)
You judge and be wrong as usual. I have removed 3 words from Osem's post to try and get through to you how your argument fails.
You've changed the meaning altogether by doing that.
It's pretty obvious that Ianch99 understands both sentences but also understands they possess different meanings.

Mick 26-06-2017 00:30
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Talk about some folk clutching at straws.

My post did not contain any lies so not sure what needs to be corrected there.

17.4 Million sure beats 16.1 Million.

One of the biggest democratic processes in modern times and here we are, some of us arguing over silly percentages because we did not like the end result. Clue, it changes nothing, or the end result.

1andrew1 26-06-2017 00:51
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904839)
Talk about some folk clutching at straws.

My post did not contain any lies so not sure what needs to be corrected there.

17.4 Million sure beats 16.1 Million.

One of the biggest democratic processes in modern times and here we are, some of us arguing over silly percentages because we did not like the end result. Clue, it changes nothing, or the end result.
It was Osem's post that needed correction, which Pip subsequently did. Not yours.

pip08456 26-06-2017 00:58
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35904837)
You've changed the meaning altogether by doing that.
It's pretty obvious that Ianch99 understands both sentences but also understands they possess different meanings.
Please, it has always been clear that Ianch99 not only understands but deliberately keeps harping on about it just to be objectionable.

He knows damn well that the only votes that matter are those cast yet he keeps dragging out those uncounted, don't give a toss what happens numbers when it suits him.

He should go into politics as he seems ideally suited.

Mr K 26-06-2017 06:12
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904823)
Rees-Mogg very intelligent MP.... very witty and very Brexity :D .
Very Twitty more like and clearly an every day man of the people... :p:
(And if Brexity is a word then Twitty is too...)

---------- Post added at 06:12 ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 ----------

Some interesting polling.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9922
Most people now think Brexit was the wrong decision, that we'll get a bad deal, prioritise trade over immigration and prefer Corbyn to May. Amazing how the British people always wise up too late..:rolleyes:

papa smurf 26-06-2017 07:02
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904841)
Please, it has always been clear that Ianch99 not only understands but deliberately keeps harping on about it just to be objectionable.

He knows damn well that the only votes that matter are those cast yet he keeps dragging out those uncounted, don't give a toss what happens numbers when it suits him.

He should go into politics as he seems ideally suited.
could replace diane abbot similar math's skills

OLD BOY 26-06-2017 07:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35904847)

Some interesting polling.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9922
Most people now think Brexit was the wrong decision, that we'll get a bad deal, prioritise trade over immigration and prefer Corbyn to May. Amazing how the British people always wise up too late..:rolleyes:
Only one poll matters, Mr K.

RizzyKing 26-06-2017 08:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Of course some now feel they voted wrongly in voting to leave we have had a relentless year of people belittling and calling into question everything from the intelligence of leave voters to their social standing within society. This is business as usual for the EU and their supporters lose the argument and then batter relentlessly those who dared to do things in a way the EU doesn't like and to be honest it's pathetic and demonstrates more then words exactly why the EU needs to fail and why it's falling apart. Eastern european nations are already getting fed up with the EU mainly Poland and Hungary at the minute but dissent is spreading.

Meanwhile Italy and Spain are bailing out banks and trying to shore up their failing economies and Brussels does very little to help in fact we have reports of the eurozone rebounding and recovering well go to Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal and ask the how the recovery is going. The EU is turning into little more then a propaganda bureau with lots of little fanatics running around spreading the gospel and ignoring everything that isn't rosy. I thought the people in the UK still valued and followed democracy but like most of western Europe democracy is only supported as long as it delivers the desired result and if it doesn't then it's time to undermine it and we have plenty in this country more then happy to help.

Mick 26-06-2017 09:27
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35904847)
Very Twitty more like and clearly an every day man of the people... :p:
(And if Brexity is a word then Twitty is too...)

---------- Post added at 06:12 ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 ----------

Some interesting polling.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9922
Most people now think Brexit was the wrong decision, that we'll get a bad deal, prioritise trade over immigration and prefer Corbyn to May. Amazing how the British people always wise up too late..:rolleyes:
Amazing how some people who don't like the result of real democracy rely on fake polling. :rolleyes:

jonbxx 26-06-2017 09:37
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35904618)
Providing you know where all the 600,000 or so are? So we can ask them to leave.



Exactly, so you spend milllions tracking them, deporting them and they just waltz back in and you can do nothing about it.

pretty much unenforceable within the Schengen zone - which we're not it thankfully



As I say pretty much unenforceable within Schengen


Back to the previous comment, why spend millions registering, tracking and deporting EU nationals when they can just hop on the next train back and there's nothing we can do.
I had a dig around to see if I could some numbers and most countries do not report expulsions under 2004/38 rules. However, Belgium, France, The Netherlands and the UK do so we can compare three Schengen countries including one of equivalent size and GDP to the UK (France)

The most recent data I could find was from 2013 where the following numbers were expelled;

Belgium - 2712
France - 10915
Netherlands - 360
UK - 3601

Looking in a different way using the proportion of the EU population in each country who were expelled;

Belgium - 0.34%
France - 0.77%
Netherlands - 0.06%
UK - 0.13%

France, though in the Schengen zone loves kicking them out!!

If you're interested, the report is here - https://www.academia.edu/32395964/Wh...ates_Practices

papa smurf 26-06-2017 09:44
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904859)
Amazing how some people who don't like the result of real democracy rely on fake polling. :rolleyes:
a poll shown on peston on sunday [i think it was a times poll] showed

48% remain and 52 % leave no change since the vote

ianch99 26-06-2017 14:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904841)
Please, it has always been clear that Ianch99 not only understands but deliberately keeps harping on about it just to be objectionable.

He knows damn well that the only votes that matter are those cast yet he keeps dragging out those uncounted, don't give a toss what happens numbers when it suits him.

He should go into politics as he seems ideally suited.
What is wierd is how twitchy all the Leavers are when I point out that 52% of the electorate here did NOT vote to leave the EU.

Just keeping you all honest :)

---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35904837)
You've changed the meaning altogether by doing that.
It's pretty obvious that Ianch99 understands both sentences but also understands they possess different meanings.
At last, a sane voice ... refreshing :)

Of course they have different meanings .. what Osem said was incorrect .. simples. My god, if they are this insecure when they won the vote, what would they be like if they had lost it?

heero_yuy 26-06-2017 14:58
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904892)
What is wierd is how twitchy all the Leavers are when I point out that 52% of the electorate here did NOT vote to leave the EU.

Just keeping you all honest :)[COLOR="Silver"]
By the same arguement 52% of the electorate didn't vote to remain in the EU.

The most likely result if they'd voted that the relative percentages would have stayed the same.

ianch99 26-06-2017 15:04
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904841)
Please, it has always been clear that Ianch99 not only understands but deliberately keeps harping on about it just to be objectionable.

He knows damn well that the only votes that matter are those cast yet he keeps dragging out those uncounted, don't give a toss what happens numbers when it suits him.

He should go into politics as he seems ideally suited.
Best defend myself then :)

The reason why I correct the regular lies that 52% of the country voted to Leave is that it did not. By constantly putting forward this assertion gives the impression that it was the "will of the people" in a populist sense. It is open to debate the exact number of people in this country that did, do and will, going forward, agree with Leaving.

What is beyond doubt is that the country is divided and fractured on this matter. There is no "will of the people" here.

Of course I accept the mathematics of the Referendum vote. You have to be stupid not to do so. However, you would also have to be stupid to misrepresent it.

Any Brexit deal must cater for both sides of this divide since the consequences for such a seismic, structural change in our society impacts all especially the younger generation who clearly did not want this.

So please go ahead and shout me down for standing up for what I think is right ...

Mick 26-06-2017 15:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904898)
Best defend myself then :)

The reason why I correct the regular lies that 52% of the country voted to Leave is that it did not. By constantly putting forward this assertion gives the impression that it was the "will of the people" in a populist sense. It is open to debate the exact number of people in this country that did, do and will, going forward, agree with Leaving.

What is beyond doubt is that the country is divided and fractured on this matter. There is no "will of the people" here.

Of course I accept the mathematics of the Referendum vote. You have to be stupid not to do so. However, you would also have to be stupid to misrepresent it.

Any Brexit deal must cater for both sides of this divide since the consequences for such a seismic, structural change in our society impacts all especially the younger generation who clearly did not want this.

So please go ahead and shout me down for standing up for what I think is right ...
But you are not. People who chose not to vote or could not be arsed to do so lost their right to have any say, if they wanted a say, they should have voted when they had their chance, that's democracy, screaming about it after or protesting about the end result because they do not agree, is just pathetic.

And stop generalising about the young did not want this, I know plenty of young people who voted leave.

You are conveniently forgetting we just had a Election where over 80% of the total votes cast went for parties aiming for brexit and a possible hard one too. That's 25 Million people voting for parties that intend brexit to happen. I would say that's the will of the people speaking, including the young who voted for Corbyn. If the young did not want this as you claim, then why did they not vote Liberal Democrats?

papa smurf 26-06-2017 15:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904898)
Best defend myself then :)

The reason why I correct the regular lies that 52% of the country voted to Leave is that it did not. By constantly putting forward this assertion gives the impression that it was the "will of the people" in a populist sense. It is open to debate the exact number of people in this country that did, do and will, going forward, agree with Leaving.

What is beyond doubt is that the country is divided and fractured on this matter. There is no "will of the people" here.

Of course I accept the mathematics of the Referendum vote. You have to be stupid not to do so. However, you would also have to be stupid to misrepresent it.

Any Brexit deal must cater for both sides of this divide since the consequences for such a seismic, structural change in our society impacts all especially the younger generation who clearly did not want this.

So please go ahead and shout me down for standing up for what I think is right ...
if that's your defence we'll get on with the hanging

Osem 26-06-2017 16:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904901)
But you are not. People who chose not to vote or could not be arsed to do so lost their right to have any say, if they wanted a say, they should have voted when they had their chance, that's democracy, screaming about it after or protesting about the end result because they do not agree, is just pathetic.

And stop generalising about the young did not want this, I know plenty of young people who voted leave.

You are conveniently forgetting we just had a Election where over 80% of the total votes cast went for parties aiming for brexit and a possible hard one too. That's 25 Million people voting for parties that intend brexit to happen. I would say that's the will of the people speaking, including the young who voted for Corbyn. If the young did not want this as you claim, then why did they not vote Liberal Democrats?
Some remainers seem to change their tune every time a vote goes the wrong way for them. They thought they'd win the referendum so didn't start moaning about the wording of the question or meaning of Brexit until after they realised they'd lost. Prior to this election, plenty of them told us that it'd be largely about Brexit when in fact the main Pro EU parties i.e. Lib Dems gained a tiny number and the SNP lost loads of seats. Now, having seen pro Brexit parties win the vast majority of votes, they're changing the argument back to the validity of the referendum and whether people understood what they were voting for. It's quite clear that whilst some remainers have accepted the outcome, many have not and will not. They'll do whatever they can to challenge, delay and undermine the process hoping that they can somehow ensure the outcome of the negotiations will be so poor for the UK that they'll finally get their way. That is how interested in democracy they are... :rolleyes:

denphone 26-06-2017 17:00
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904904)
if that's your defence we'll get on with the hanging
Unless you have forgot hanging is outlawed in this country Sir.;)

papa smurf 26-06-2017 17:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904912)
Unless you have forgot hanging is outlawed in this country Sir.;)
don't argue with the judge or i will find you in contempt of the court of kangaroo justice :nono:

denphone 26-06-2017 17:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904913)
don't argue with the judge or i will find you in contempt of the court of kangaroo justice :nono:
A judge has to be qualified which you must certainly are not.:p:

papa smurf 26-06-2017 17:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904914)
A judge has to be qualified which you must certainly are not.:p:
oh aren't i

Ken W 26-06-2017 18:02
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
I purchased on line a pair of 27" leg trousers but when they arrived they measured 28", I phone company and requested a full refund of the cost of the trousers plus post, their reply was they would only refund the trousers but not the cost of post which was £3.5. I quoted the sale of goods act that the it should as described 27" leg and fit for purpose. They reluctantly said they also refund the postage.


They have lost a customer!

ianch99 26-06-2017 18:02
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904901)
And stop generalising about the young did not want this, I know plenty of young people who voted leave.
What can I say :)

Osem 26-06-2017 18:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken W (Post 35904917)
I purchased on line a pair of 27" leg trousers but when they arrived they measured 28", I phone company and requested a full refund of the cost of the trousers plus post, their reply was they would only refund the trousers but not the cost of post which was £3.5. I quoted the sale of goods act that the it should as described 27" leg and fit for purpose. They reluctantly said they also refund the postage.


They have lost a customer!
Is this problem down to Brexit as well? :D

;)

ianch99 26-06-2017 18:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904904)
if that's your defence we'll get on with the hanging
God bless you kind sir .. I got 20 children to keep and my old missus needs her regular supply of baccy so what would they do if I wos done away with?

Can I throw myself on the mercy of the court? Ah my gawd, I is ruined I am. Woe is me, .. (sound of teeth gnashing) ... I is done for.

papa smurf 26-06-2017 18:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904921)
God bless you kind sir .. I got 20 children to keep and my old missus needs her regular supply of baccy so what would they do if I wos done away with?

Can I throw myself on the mercy of the court? Ah my gawd, I is ruined I am. Woe is me, .. (sound of teeth gnashing) ... I is done for.
lever pulled crowd gasps and then cheers - next;)

Ken W 26-06-2017 18:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35904920)
Is this problem down to Brexit as well? :D

;)

Opps, I posted in the wrong section.:o:

ianch99 26-06-2017 18:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904901)
But you are not. People who chose not to vote or could not be arsed to do so lost their right to have any say, if they wanted a say, they should have voted when they had their chance, that's democracy, screaming about it after or protesting about the end result because they do not agree, is just pathetic.

And stop generalising about the young did not want this, I know plenty of young people who voted leave.

You are conveniently forgetting we just had a Election where over 80% of the total votes cast went for parties aiming for brexit and a possible hard one too. That's 25 Million people voting for parties that intend brexit to happen. I would say that's the will of the people speaking, including the young who voted for Corbyn. If the young did not want this as you claim, then why did they not vote Liberal Democrats?
How people actually voted in the Referendum:

How Britain Voted


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/06/20.png

papa smurf 26-06-2017 18:17
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904925)
cool which side won

ianch99 26-06-2017 18:18
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904923)
lever pulled crowd gasps and then cheers - next;)
Hah! I can still haunt you from the grave! :Yes:

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904927)
cool which side won
... just

Mick 26-06-2017 18:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904925)
Oh look, more fake polls. Nobody has any idea how people voted and it still does not change end result.

Paul 26-06-2017 18:26
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Its not a fake poll, its just a small sample poll - pretty much like running a vote here.

ianch99 26-06-2017 18:30
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904931)
Oh look, more fake polls. Nobody has any idea how people voted and it still does not change end result.
More fake facts from FullFact.org:

Young voters and the EU referendum/

Quote:

“Turnout among young voters 'almost double' initial reports”

Independent, 10 July 2016

Reports on the numbers of young people who turned out to vote in the EU referendum have been conflicting. But there is no definitive answer on how many young people voted in the EU referendum, or even which way they voted.

That said, whatever the exact figures, young people do seem to have been less likely to vote than older people.

How many young people voted?

Immediately after the referendum Sky News suggested that turnout for 18-24 year olds was around 36%. We looked into this and found that the figure was based on likely turnout for the 2015 election.

Since then a number of polls have been conducted which suggest that turnout for young people may have been much higher, with at least two thirds turning out.

However, these polls aren’t consistent in what they determine “young people” to be. Some categorise this as 18-24 year olds, some as 18-34 year olds.

Concerns have also been raised by John Curtice, President of the British Polling Council, about whether or not the polls are weighted accurately to take account of the fact that people who respond to polls tend to be more likely to vote in the first place. People who don’t vote are less likely to answer a poll about politics and voting.

As Professor Curtice points out, these polls report a higher overall turnout than was actually the case.

But they do all show that young people were less likely to have voted than their older peers.

How did young people vote?

Following the referendum result a number of polls have also tried to find out how the young people of the UK voted.

YouGov have suggested that 71% of 18-24 year olds who voted wanted to stay in the EU and 29% wanted to leave.

In a poll conducted by Lord Ashcroft in the days before the referendum and on the day itself, 73% of 18-24 year olds said they voted to remain in the EU.

And two academics have found that “of the 20 ‘youngest’ [local] authorities 16 voted to Remain. By contrast the Leave vote was much stronger in older areas. Of the 20 oldest local authorities 19 voted to Leave”.
You can ignore the above because Mick knows some young people who voted Leave :)

---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35904932)
Its not a fake poll, its just a small sample poll - pretty much like running a vote here.
I think you are bigging up CF if you had 5455 voting here :)

Mick 26-06-2017 18:33
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Most of the polls of late have been mostly wrong. I find them simply unreliable.

pip08456 26-06-2017 19:07
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904925)
The problem with educational standard with these polls is that educational standards have actually been lowered over the years.

A GCSE is by no means the same as a GCE.

Education standards are a totally different discussion but must be considered when you wish to assert brexit voters are less intellectual.

1andrew1 26-06-2017 19:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904941)
The problem with educational standard with these polls is that educational standards have actually been lowered over the years.

A GCSE is by no means the same as a GCE.

Education standards are a totally different discussion but must be considered when you wish to assert brexit voters are less intellectual.
No one has stated that Brexit voters are less intellectual or more intellectual than leave ones. But The Telegraph and others reported research that said more Remain voters had degrees or higher qualifications. Some mix the two aspects up.

pip08456 26-06-2017 19:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
But degrees or higher qualifications based on a lower standard. Just ask businesses that have been complaining about the lowered standard for years!

ianch99 26-06-2017 19:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35904941)
The problem with educational standard with these polls is that educational standards have actually been lowered over the years.

A GCSE is by no means the same as a GCE.

Education standards are a totally different discussion but must be considered when you wish to assert brexit voters are less intellectual.
I am not asserting anything here, just reporting a YouGov analysis. Educational qualifications are neutral demographic metric, like age is.

Are you saying you want to be Politically Correct and not talk about or include Education metrics? ;)

---------- Post added at 19:31 ---------- Previous post was at 19:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904936)
Most of the polls of late have been mostly wrong. I find them simply unreliable.
BBC exit poll for the GE was spot on ...

Mick 26-06-2017 19:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904958)

BBC exit poll for the GE was spot on ...
That is a exit poll with a rather larger sample size. The polls before the election still indicated May would still get a majority and they varied widely. Some with May only a few points ahead and others around 12 points ahead.

All this number crunching is very desperate of you and pointless, not sure what your aim is but the result remains the same. We are leaving the EU.

denphone 26-06-2017 19:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904966)
That is a exit poll with a rather larger sample size. The polls before the election still indicated May would still get a majority and they varied widely. Some with May only a few points ahead and others around 12 points ahead.

All this number crunching is very desperate of you and pointless, not sure what your aim is but the result remains the same. We are leaving the EU.
From what l have read only Survation near enough got the GE exit poll spot on as l think this was their last opinion poll before the election.

http://survation.com/conservative-le...h-whats-going/

pip08456 26-06-2017 19:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904958)
I am not asserting anything here, just reporting a YouGov analysis. Educational qualifications are neutral demographic metric, like age is.

Are you saying you want to be Politically Correct and not talk about or include Education metrics?
The last thing I am is Politically Correct! I can't stand the prat's that are or what it tries to do!!!

ianch99 26-06-2017 21:24
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35904966)
That is a exit poll with a rather larger sample size. The polls before the election still indicated May would still get a majority and they varied widely. Some with May only a few points ahead and others around 12 points ahead.

All this number crunching is very desperate of you and pointless, not sure what your aim is but the result remains the same. We are leaving the EU.
Ah, it's the polls you dont agree with that are wrong, got it :)

Damien 26-06-2017 21:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Survation got it close and also YouGov did a model based on the underlying data in their own polling which showed a hung parliament including Canterbury and Kensington going to Labour. Others were well off.

It came down to young people. YouGov and Survation believed there would be a higher turnout amongst the under 40s and they these people would largely vote Labour in higher numbers than before. The others thought that because these groups tend to vote in fewer numbers they would discount some of them in their weightings. In the end the former was the correct assumption.

Ramrod 26-06-2017 22:00
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35904847)
[/COLOR]Some interesting polling.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9922
Most people now think Brexit was the wrong decision, that we'll get a bad deal, prioritise trade over immigration and prefer Corbyn to May. Amazing how the British people always wise up too late..:rolleyes:
I see your poll and raise you this one: Britain Would Vote to Leave EU Again One Year After Referendum

1andrew1 26-06-2017 23:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35904958)
I am not asserting anything here, just reporting a YouGov analysis. Educational qualifications are neutral demographic metric, like age is.
Are you saying you want to be Politically Correct and not talk about or include Education metrics? ;)
Some people are pretty snow flakey and PC about the YouGov analysis on the demographics of Brexit and Remain voters. They shouldn't be. Just because people have chosen or not had the opportunity to study beyond sixth form, does not make them less or more intelligent than those who have.

pip08456 26-06-2017 23:37
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35905021)
Some people are pretty snow flakey and PC about the YouGov analysis on the demographics of Brexit and Remain voters. They shouldn't be. Just because people have chosen or not had the opportunity to study beyond sixth form, does not make them less or more intelligent than those who have.
Some people don't give a **** about demographics ands a lot of those who didn't study beyond sixth form for whatever reason don't give a **** either.

FYI I did study past sixth form and I don't give a **** about demographics either!

The will of those who were interested to vote was to leave the EU. Get over it and accept it!

1andrew1 26-06-2017 23:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35905025)
Some people don't give a **** about demographics ands a lot of those who didn't study beyond sixth form for whatever reason don't give a **** either.

FYI I did study past sixth form and I don't give a **** about demographics either!

The will of those who were interested to vote was to leave the EU. Get over it and accept it!
Um, where did I say I didn't accept it and why is that point vaguely relevant? The answer is I've never said I don't accept it and no, it's not relevant.
But it is true to say that some people are sensitive about the correlation between voting in the referendum and educational achievement. I've always said they shouldn't be.

RizzyKing 26-06-2017 23:51
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
There will be no acceptance of the referendum result by remain supporters because they are trying to engineer another vote so we can vote the right way it's what the EU's done everytime democracy doesn't work for it. It's a process of wearing people down to the point that when another takes place they don't vote recognising that only one vote is acceptable and until it's achieved the grinding down process will continue till the right vote happens.

1andrew1 27-06-2017 00:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35905029)
There will be no acceptance of the referendum result by remain supporters because they are trying to engineer another vote so we can vote the right way it's what the EU's done everytime democracy doesn't work for it. It's a process of wearing people down to the point that when another takes place they don't vote recognising that only one vote is acceptable and until it's achieved the grinding down process will continue till the right vote happens.
It's all one big conspiracy. :D

RizzyKing 27-06-2017 00:07
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
No just a crappy organisation that doesn't like things that don't go it's way fortunately for them they have enough fanatics in most member states to create the sort of trouble we've seen in the UK for the last year.

Damien 27-06-2017 06:33
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35905025)
a lot of those who didn't study beyond sixth form for whatever reason don't give a **** either.
Sounds like a demographic to me. :D

TheDaddy 27-06-2017 08:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35904913)
don't argue with the judge or i will find you in contempt of the court of kangaroo justice :nono:
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35904914)
A judge has to be qualified which you must certainly are not.:p:
For a kangaroo court, I'd say he's over qualified

papa smurf 27-06-2017 09:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35905068)
For a kangaroo court, I'd say he's over qualified
thanks i think :confused:

ianch99 27-06-2017 09:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35905026)
Um, where did I say I didn't accept it and why is that point vaguely relevant? The answer is I've never said I don't accept it and no, it's not relevant.
But it is true to say that some people are sensitive about the correlation between voting in the referendum and educational achievement. I've always said they shouldn't be.
I told you, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once* but I think I got away with it :)

* ok, maybe more than once ;)

denphone 27-06-2017 09:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35905073)
thanks i think :confused:
The trouble is you think too much me dear or shall say read too much educational literature..;)


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