Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

The basic notion behind this amnesty is not to give hardened Paodophiles a way to avoid procecution in fact the proposal is very specific in making sure this is not the case.

What it could offer though is a chance for those individuals on the margins to volunteer for help without the fear of direct procecution. The benfit for the community is that access to their harddrives would allow further investigation of others in the chain.

As things stand now few, if any, worried by their own suspicions about the path they have found themselves on would volunteer for treatment because of the perceived consequences.

Until operation Ore most assumed the numbers on the margins were relatively low, but sadly what was clear from the results of that operation, was that the numbers involved and especially the types of people involved ran against the percieved wisdom at the time.

The list included police, teachers, lawyers and yes even social workers. In fact just the very people one would have hoped were those least likely to be involved.

There are many theories about why this was true but one that makes most sense to me is that not only do each of these groups come into contact with children but the children they do come into contact with are the most vulnerable.

Sadly the levels of training involved in each of these groups is often insuficient to cope with the emotional demands involved working with such vulnerable people.

I cite as one example the junior officer involved in the Soham case. His work had brought him into contact with a series of shocking and disturbing evidence as part of his duties. Disturbing as it sounds, exposure to such material can and does awaken in some thoughts and feelings that would never had entered their minds without such exposure.

This young misguided man was no Paodophile but unchecked and unhelped who knows where he would have ended up without the help he is now receiving following his conviction.

I would suggest it is just such individuals that this amnesty is designed to help, whereby they have a route to the help they themselves often realise they need without being procecuted for stepping forward and asking for that help voluntarily.

The inclusion of the requirement to submit their hardrives so that others in the chain can be identified and dealt with is I think a stroke of genius. I applaud this "trade off" between treating those who volunteer less harshly for the benefit of tracking down those that don't.

At the end of the day anything which reduces the ammount and availability of child-porn has to be commended.

EDIT: Having just read Graham's post on page one I must congratulate him on making such a great contribution to the debate way to go Bro !!!! Rep point on the way. :)

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

Thinking about this some more, there are, unfortunately, a couple of drawbacks that come to mind:

1) Just "handing over your hard drive" is not as simple as it sounds. Even if the authorities were to take a perfect copy and return it with the offending material deleted, such things tend to take a *very* long time and, in the mean time, the user is effectively without a computer.

Given that computers are becoming more and more used (or even required) in day to day activities, this would not be an option, for instance were I to hand over my HDD (NB all the porn on my computer involves adults, thank you very much!) it would cripple my business because I do all my invoicing, billing, stock control etc on it and, even if I had an entirely separate business computer, the authorities would undoubtedly demand to see *all* my drives, CDs, floppies etc to make sure I'm not keeping a stash whilst ostensibly putting my hands up and asking for help.

2) The "further investigation of others in the chain" sounds very much like a "Prisoners Dilemma" situation whereby if nobody says *anything*, everyone gets away with it.

Ok, yes, they should go after those who actually run the websites etc that *distribute* the material and try to find those who actually commit the abuse, but I'm not sure that chasing the "small fry" would either be a good idea or a good usage of resources.

PS thanks for the positive Rep point, Sociable!

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

Am I right in suggesting the time for the amnesty is a openly pre-defined date? In that case you have time to back up your stuff and hand in the hard drive, but why not simply delete the offending images, the only thing that would make a difference is if a raid was planned a few days later leaving the images readily recoverable?

Would they record names and addresses on this amnesty? If they were recorded as to have handed in the disk - and then sublequently not raided they could just have a copy.

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

No probs nice to have a post worthy of that acknowlegment. :)

I agree with your comments about the "problems" re HD's but as always it will be a case of finding work-arrounds to fit the specific case. Remembering, of course, had they been "Caught" the whole system is likely to have been confiscated anyway.

In the end it's about adding pieces of info to the larger jigsaw so that the bigger picture becomes clearer allowing action to be taken. In this respect every little helps.

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

Oh yes I can see it now, Pervy Pete the local Pedo thinks "I have pervy images on my HDD, I'd better hand it in" DOH!
As if!

If someone thought that there was a chance of them being raided then they would take steps to destroy the evidence themselves, not hand it in to the police.

Wiping tools and a big hammer should be enough to prevent a drive being looked at no matter what the tools are that the police have.
A public waste bin is also useful for this.

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

This is true but if others using the same sources do participate in such a scheme then over time sites like the one used in operation Ore will eventually lead back to "Pete" and all others like him. Given "Pete" had the option to come clean earlier and chose not too do so will invite the full force of the law being applied as and when that day inevitably arrives.

If that results in Pete being Binned and Hammered so much the better!!!

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

call me a skeptic but i dont see much of a point in this if the hard drive is 'turned in' whats stopping the person from going and buying another one and i doubt many would come forward who are mentally sick in my view

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

The whole point is that it is not just about turning in hard drives that's just one very small aspect of the whole situation. It is nothing like the previous gun amnesties whereby people could hand in the gun completely annonamously and with no questions asked. In this case the handing in of the hard drives and any other material is part of the overall process of individuals comming forward before they are found out. By doing so they may be treated more lieniently than they would have been if they were eventually tracked down and procecuted.

Remember there are still several 1000 people uncertain of whether they were caught by operation Ore and other such operations which came out of that.

By including the surender of HD's as a requirement for more lienient treatment they are trying to preserve information which will assist in the tracking down of other sites and individuals.

It only takes one HD to identify a currently unknown source of child porn which when investigated could lead to many other individuals and other sites. This is why HD's are routinely seized in a whole range of criminal cases as they are part of the trail not just in that case but often in many others too.

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

yes im aware of all that i did read the article but i highly doubt a sizeable amount of people will come forward because its a dependancy its like a drug you keep going back for more and your not going to give it up because its not harming you

and you always will think you wont get caught

by offering a chance of an amnesty it will reel some in who are afraid of getting caught by the operations that the police persue but on the whole it wont change much

the current operation proccedure of netting them in the act by luring them in to signing up to websites is the most affective method IMO

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

Agreed, I think it's a great idea and will certainly do more good than harm, but taking away the 'drug' could make them go out and commit the offenses themselves, but I guess that's where the counseling comes in.

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

you have to be tactical on the elimination way of doing things you try and strike at the heart of these sick people the police should be able to find areas of the net where people are actively seeking child porn and get them trying to obtain via the police sites that have been setup

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

AH no puncuation of any kind :p

The police have been doing such things already and I don't thing they would be stupid enough to run off one 'heart'. I've seen programs about the methods they use to remain anonymous.

The amnesty is worth a try.

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

lol im busy no time for that,ill try :rofl:


i meant they need to strike at the heart of the sites,whereever these sickos meet up, so i saw once on TV, they use forums chatrooms etc

sure i never said its not worth it, its just i think it will be highly inaffective thats all

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

Ponder this then.

The arrest of a single Paodophile and the seizure of his hard drive led to identifying the site used in Opperation Ore. Investigation of that site led to the identification of thousands of individuals using that one site.

The whole beauty of this idea is that, whereas the PC's and the Net had become a tool aiding their activities, this new initiative allows the authorities to make use of PC's and the Net against them.

If only one HD is handed in as a result of this amnesty the numbers it helps eventually bring to justice could run into 10's of thousands worldwide.

Re: Paodophile Amnesty
 

it could happen but i highly doubt it but plausable nontheless


yep it is a good idea i never said it was not


yep but a better way to get rid of the HD is to smash it in to a million peices and throw it in the skip ;)