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Russ 09-02-2006 12:39

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
I don't get this - in the aftermath of 9/11, some sources in America started attacking Islam. Viral joke emails circulated around the world about Islam, the Taliban, Afganistan etc yet I don't remember any mass demonstrations like this over the comments which were made back then.

basa 09-02-2006 12:43

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod
Hang on a mo...<snip>.....when 9/11 & 7/7 & Madrid & all the other atrocities happened I don't recall 100k Muslims marching in london to show their disgust at what was being done in their name. :dozey:

Just a thought ..... could it be because they actually agree with it / them ?? :erm:

Perish the thought. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 11:43 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D
I don't get this - in the aftermath of 9/11, some sources in America started attacking Islam. Viral joke emails circulated around the world about Islam, the Taliban, Afganistan etc yet I don't remember any mass demonstrations like this over the comments which were made back then.

Maybe it would have been too embarrassing to complain about reasonable and natural reaction to *their* atrocities ?? ;)

Ramrod 09-02-2006 12:45

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D
I don't get this - in the aftermath of 9/11, some sources in America started attacking Islam. Viral joke emails circulated around the world about Islam, the Taliban, Afganistan etc yet I don't remember any mass demonstrations like this over the comments which were made back then.

I suspect they had enough sense to lay low at that time......

Nugget 09-02-2006 12:47

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D
I don't get this - in the aftermath of 9/11, some sources in America started attacking Islam. Viral joke emails circulated around the world about Islam, the Taliban, Afganistan etc yet I don't remember any mass demonstrations like this over the comments which were made back then.

One thing that we have to remember though (and I'm not condoning any potential violence etc here), is that representations of God aren't forbidden in Christianity. In fact, there's an argument to say that Christianity is grounded in symbolism, with physical representations of the Cross etc.

However, if representations of Mohammed are expressly forbidden within Islam, then I can understand where the height of feeling is coming from (again, this doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with it). Also, people have used the fact that freedom of speech is enshrined in the Western world - don't forget that freedom of expression is also part of the Western world so, as such, why shouldn't a demonstration be allowed? Provided that it is a peaceful demo, no laws are being broken...

Ramrod 09-02-2006 12:49

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by basa
Just a thought ..... could it be because they actually agree with it / them ?? :erm:

Thats what I am wondering......because it all seems a little odd to me how they are willing to get up in arms about cartoons but not at atrocities done in the name of their religion.....or am I wrong/missing something here?:confused:

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget
One thing that we have to remember though (and I'm not condoning any potential violence etc here), is that representations of God aren't forbidden in Christianity. In fact, there's an argument to say that Christianity is grounded in symbolism, with physical representations of the Cross etc.

However, if representations of Mohammed are expressly forbidden within Islam, then I can understand where the height of feeling is coming from (again, this doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with it).

fair enough but surely a greater insult was done to their religion by the numerous atrocities around the world.....why haven't they marched like this about those?

basa 09-02-2006 14:03

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Just to wind you up more:

Quote:

Link (Requires free subscription) >
THE †˜CARTOON RIOTSÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢: BIGOTS ON BOTH SIDES

February 7, 2006 -- RIOTS scorch the Islamic world as maddened believers protest Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed. Embassies burn, demonstrators die, crazed threats resound. Far more Muslims fill the streets than protested the invasion of Iraq.
Astonished Europeans insist on their right to press freedom. Muslims are outraged at the willful violation of a widespread Islamic belief: The Prophet's image must not be depicted.

Now the confrontation's gone too far for either side to back down. And both sides are wrong.

First, consider the Europeans. The Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons last September was not standing up courageously for freedom of expression. The editors and cartoonists were so oblivious to any reality beyond their Copenhagen coffee bars that they just thought they were pulling an attention-getting prank.

They got attention, all right. As did the papers elsewhere in Europe that reprinted the offending cartoons last week. In the name of press freedom, of course.

The problem is that with freedom comes responsibility, a quality to which Europe's become allergic (nothing is ever a European's fault). Breaking a well-known taboo of Islam was irresponsible. No other word for it.

There's plenty to criticize in the failed civilization of Middle Eastern Islam. But the European press avoids the serious issues. They could've run cartoons about al-Zarqawi's savagery, al-Jazeera's hypocrisy or the oppression of women. Instead, they attacked a religion's heart. Gratuitously.

Those cartoons said more about Europe's own arrogance toward religious believers and intolerance of faith than they do about Islam. Today's Europeans consider religious belief as beneath their sophistication. They've come so far that they no longer grasp how intense faith can be †” and how furiously the faithful can react.

Through their clumsiness and vanity, the Europeans have made this an all-or-nothing issue. What began as a nasty little Danish problem has been globalized. If the Europeans appear to capitulate now, it will only encourage Muslim extremists around the world.

Wasn't it those oh-so-clever Europeans who complained about a heavy U.S. hand in the Middle East? Who made excuses for 9/11, the Madrid bombings, street murders, terrorist kidnappings and beheadings, the London bombings, French suburbs aflame and no end of hate speech? Then treated Islam the way a dog treats a fire hydrant?

That's Europe for you: A continent of cowards who start fights they can't finish themselves. Thanks, Hans. Merci, Pierre.

Of course, the blame doesn't fall solely on the Eurotrash. The over-reaction within the Muslim world is psychotic †” yet another indication of the spiritual and practical collapse of the Middle East and realms beyond. Will the Europeans figure it out this time? How many corpses, cracked heads, arrests, boycotts and smoldering embassies will it take before Europe realizes that militant Islam isn't benign?

The Arab world, especially, is a pile of tinder waiting for random sparks. And the alacrity with which regional governments and Islamist groups have moved to blow up the cartoon issue into a conflagration is as tactically astute as it is despicable.

What we're seeing in the Middle East is strategic theater, benefit performances for the Syrian government (now playing the Islam card), Hezbollah, Hamas and every tough customer in the neighborhood.

No accident that the largest number of demonstrators busted in Beirut were Syrian nationals. And does anyone really believe that Syria's police and security services couldn't control those crowds in Damascus?

Meanwhile, the nuts-for-Allah boys in Tehran are using the issue to whip up support for Shia nukes. Kashmiri separatists are milking the controversy, as are the remnants of the Taliban in Afghanistan. The protests stretch from Indonesia to England.

Expect more blood.

It's hard not to feel a certain amount of Schadenfreude after enduring endless lectures from Europeans about how the Middle East's problems were all made in America. It will be fascinating to watch the Europeans attempt to come to grips with fanaticism.

Even a French philosopher can't forever glorify a civilization that puts more energy into calling for death to cartoonists than it does into human rights, education or good government.

For once, we Americans can sit back and watch the fight (pass the popcorn, please). The Europeans are going to get a few more teeth knocked out. As for the Islamist bigots intent on destroying what's left of their own decayed societies, they'll lose at least a few of their European apologists †” the sort who make excuses for terrorists, as long as they only kill Americans (or Muslims).

Looking at the pigheaded intolerance driving the Europeans and Islamist fanatics alike, the healthy response is, "A plague on both your houses."
:shocked:

Responses here.

Russ 09-02-2006 14:06

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Yanks, don't you just love them :dozey:

basa 09-02-2006 14:10

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Reply 13 - Posted by: srhcb, 2/7/2006 9:29:47 AM

I CAN'T WAIT to see what "South Park" does with this!
:rofl: :rofl:

ScaredWebWarrior 09-02-2006 14:19

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by basa
Just to wind you up more:

That's the pot calling the kettle black.

I suppose some Americans rather like the idea that, for the moment, the spotlight is off them.

Not sure what they think we'll do about, though. Maybe some will expect/hope that now the Europeans, previously less than keen to go to war, will suddenly decide to join the fray with more enthusiasm. Not just yet.
But they might be much less vocal in their opposition from now on.

P.S. Saw a great quote today:
Quote:

I gave up drawing cartoons as there was no prophet in it.
:)

Nugget 09-02-2006 14:21

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior
<snip>But they might be much less vocal in their opposition from now on.

Ah yes, but an unjust war's still an unjust war ;)

basa 09-02-2006 14:40

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

I gave up drawing cartoons as there was no prophet in it.
:doh:

NitroNutter 09-02-2006 14:42

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget
One thing that we have to remember though (and I'm not condoning any potential violence etc here), is that representations of God aren't forbidden in Christianity. In fact, there's an argument to say that Christianity is grounded in symbolism, with physical representations of the Cross etc.

However, if representations of Mohammed are expressly forbidden within Islam, then I can understand where the height of feeling is coming from (again, this doesn't necessarily mean that I agree with it). Also, people have used the fact that freedom of speech is enshrined in the Western world - don't forget that freedom of expression is also part of the Western world so, as such, why shouldn't a demonstration be allowed? Provided that it is a peaceful demo, no laws are being broken...

Technically they are, it is I believe one of the commandmants, altho its more aligned to worshiping items it really depends on how its interpreted.

Ramrod 09-02-2006 15:12

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D
Yanks, don't you just love them :dozey:

Seconded! :rolleyes:

Salu 09-02-2006 16:21

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
This is 90% hysteria. A very large game of Chinese Whispers that has struck a sore point and has been amplified by the media.

basa 09-02-2006 16:52

Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Salu
This is 90% hysteria. A very large game of Chinese Whispers that has struck a sore point and has been amplified by the media.

Depends on whom your comment is aimed at ?

Us who feel this is a major over reaction by muslims, or the muslims over reaction to some cartoons ??? :erm:


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