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-   -   Is it time to leave the UK? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33711296)

ianch99 04-09-2022 19:59
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36133194)
Oh diddums, what a pathetic lot of vitriol. My generation, on the whole, has faced many difficulties over the years and have risen above it and succeeded in life. This is despite high interest rates that nearly got the better of those who had saved up to get mortgages during the seventies, eighties and nineties they could barely pay.

You talk about the older generation as if they had special privileges, so why am I seeing my daughters doing just as well or better, and other people they went to school with doing well for themselves as well?

If you have a negative approach to everything and you are constantly feeling jealous of people who have more than you, you will never, ever succeed.

I am proud to live in this country. I don’t hark back to our former empire as people like you like to believe because I didn’t live through it and I have no desire to take over and enslave other countries.

I used to want to live in the US, but now I’m older, this does not seem such a desirable move. When I look around, I see that this must be the best place to live and others seem to agree because they all want to come here.

So, sorry, I cannot agree with your depressing view of it all and can only suggest that you emigrate if things are that bad in your opinion, but don’t just sit there at your computer moaning about everything. That will achieve nothing, I’m afraid.
Oh dear, where to start. Let me start saying that, personally, I am very successful. I have no need to be jealous of people for financial reasons. Far from it.

Your misrepresentation of your (and my) generation is so far from the truth it is laughable. I am not going to waste my time trying to correct you. There is no point in that you will never accept evidence-based reasoning. Your forum history demonstrates this. Again, the suggestion to "emigrate" is so perverse to be a sick joke. You literally took away that option.

jfman 04-09-2022 21:47
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36133194)
That is so right, tweetie. If you are focussed on doing well and you are organised in your approach, you won’t go far wrong.

The whiners amongst us will complain no matter what and will never succeed.

---------- Post added at 14:33 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------



Oh diddums, what a pathetic lot of vitriol. My generation, on the whole, has faced many difficulties over the years and have risen above it and succeeded in life.
:rofl:

No major war, sustained economic growth, selling off the family silver and mortgaging future generations wealth. Sure, times was tough.

Quote:
This is despite high interest rates that nearly got the better of those who had saved up to get mortgages during the seventies, eighties and nineties they could barely pay.
Historic revisionism of the highest order. Any comparison of average earnings to average house prices proves you wrong.

Quote:
You talk about the older generation as if they had special privileges, so why am I seeing my daughters doing just as well or better, and other people they went to school with doing well for themselves as well?
I love small observational studies. I thought Brits were all workshy and lazy, and this was stifling our capability for growth?

Quote:
If you have a negative approach to everything and you are constantly feeling jealous of people who have more than you, you will never, ever succeed.
:rofl: any evidence for this, at all? What’s the difference between being jealous and being aspirational? Isn’t wanting more the same as entrepreneurial spirit?

Quote:
I am proud to live in this country. I don’t hark back to our former empire as people like you like to believe because I didn’t live through it and I have no desire to take over and enslave other countries.

I used to want to live in the US, but now I’m older, this does not seem such a desirable move. When I look around, I see that this must be the best place to live and others seem to agree because they all want to come here.

So, sorry, I cannot agree with your depressing view of it all and can only suggest that you emigrate if things are that bad in your opinion, but don’t just sit there at your computer moaning about everything. That will achieve nothing, I’m afraid.
:rofl:

From a man sitting at his computer moaning about people moaning.

Hugh 05-09-2022 00:06
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36133194)
That is so right, tweetie. If you are focussed on doing well and you are organised in your approach, you won’t go far wrong.

The whiners amongst us will complain no matter what and will never succeed.

---------- Post added at 14:33 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------



Oh diddums, what a pathetic lot of vitriol. My generation, on the whole, has faced many difficulties over the years and have risen above it and succeeded in life. This is despite high interest rates that nearly got the better of those who had saved up to get mortgages during the seventies, eighties and nineties they could barely pay.

You talk about the older generation as if they had special privileges, so why am I seeing my daughters doing just as well or better, and other people they went to school with doing well for themselves as well?

If you have a negative approach to everything and you are constantly feeling jealous of people who have more than you, you will never, ever succeed.

I am proud to live in this country. I don’t hark back to our former empire as people like you like to believe because I didn’t live through it and I have no desire to take over and enslave other countries.

I used to want to live in the US, but now I’m older, this does not seem such a desirable move. When I look around, I see that this must be the best place to live and others seem to agree because they all want to come here.

So, sorry, I cannot agree with your depressing view of it all and can only suggest that you emigrate if things are that bad in your opinion, but don’t just sit there at your computer moaning about everything. That will achieve nothing, I’m afraid.
You are being economical with actuality - I bought my first house (in Berkshire) in 84, and 100% mortgages (and more) were common then, and we had MIRAS, which gave us tax relief on the first £30k of a mortgage - for comparison purposes, my first mortgage was £26.5k (100%) for a 2 bed semi in Thatcham, Berkshire, and that was 2.5 times my salary at the time. It’s currently priced at around £300k (so for equivalence, you’re looking for someone in their late 20s to be earning £120k pa to buy the same property I could afford to buy then…)

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-deposits.html

Quote:
In fact, the generation of homeowners who bought their first properties in the 1980s and 1990s actually put down smaller deposits on average than those who bought through the 2000s and today’s first time buyers.

The average first-time buyer mortgage loan-to-value through the 1980s and 1990s was 94 per cent, Council of Mortgage Lenders figures show, whereas since 2000 it has been 85 per cent.
Yes, we got hit by high interest rates in the mid-80s and early 90s, but as long as you were treating your house as a home, rather than an investment to make a quick buck, most people weathered the storm.

Paul 05-09-2022 00:10
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36133207)
No major war, sustained economic growth....
I'm pretty sure you well telling us a few posts ago about the terrible economic decline for the last 40 years, so which is it :confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36133207)
Any comparison of average earnings to average house prices proves you wrong.
How so ? How is that related to high interest rates (12 - 15 % IIRC).

jfman 05-09-2022 00:22
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36133209)
I'm pretty sure you well telling us a few posts ago about the terrible economic decline for the last 40 years, so which is it :confused:
I’ve never said the economy has been in decline - indeed anyone could have quickly pulled out a long term chart of GDP and proven me wrong if I had.

However the economic growth has largely been as a result of selling everything off and borrowing (state and personal debt).

This isn’t mutually exclusive with my 40 years of economic failure line - as all we’ve done is saved up all the problems until right around now when we have to face up to the failure of privatisations or the fact the low tax economy was a myth.

The economy can also grow while inequalities grow, public services decline, living standards fall. The question is at that point who is the economy being run for the benefit of.

Quote:
How so ? How is that related to high interest rates (12 - 15 % IIRC).
Even with higher interest rates homes were more affordable. There was also the big sell off of social housing, which I forgot to include above in the windfalls that the state pulled in.

ianch99 05-09-2022 00:50
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36133194)
Oh diddums, what a pathetic lot of vitriol <yawn>.
Just to following up on this entitled work of fiction: the generation OB & I belong to had the best of it. We have stable careers, stable country, low house-to-salary ratios, free University, good healthcare, etc. etc. Our childrens' generation have none of this, in part, due to the deliberate choices of people like OB.

These people who basically just had good timing being born now complain when people challenge these political choices. When people don't agree with their rose tinted view of reality and raise issues relating to this reality, the response has to be one of deflection, distraction and personal criticism. There is nothing left ..

We need to remodel the economy, patterned on the Scandinavian or Nordic Model. The high net worth individuals need to be taxed more: on wealth, not income to redistribute some of the gains made over the last 40 years of trickle up free market economics.

Lastly, with these changes, I personally would be paying more in taxes. I have no problem doing this as I believe in this country, unlike others who just want to take all the money they can and contribute nothing in return.

Maggy 05-09-2022 09:18
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36133212)
Just to following up on this entitled work of fiction: the generation OB & I belong to had the best of it. We have stable careers, stable country, low house-to-salary ratios, free University, good healthcare, etc. etc. Our childrens' generation have none of this, in part, due to the deliberate choices of people like OB.

These people who basically just had good timing being born now complain when people challenge these political choices. When people don't agree with their rose tinted view of reality and raise issues relating to this reality, the response has to be one of deflection, distraction and personal criticism. There is nothing left ..

We need to remodel the economy, patterned on the Scandinavian or Nordic Model. The high net worth individuals need to be taxed more: on wealth, not income to redistribute some of the gains made over the last 40 years of trickle up free market economics.

Lastly, with these changes, I personally would be paying more in taxes. I have no problem doing this as I believe in this country, unlike others who just want to take all the money they can and contribute nothing in return.
My generation too.

tweetiepooh 05-09-2022 10:32
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
One reason for high house prices is too many people buying property for investments, holiday homes, rental which in turn pushes up property prices making the investment more attractive and up it cycles. Big investors (often foreign) will likely monitor the situation and if it looks like a price collapse sell earlier or wait and buy up even more.


I've always thought that charging VAT on houses not used for main property would be a good move and charging far higher rates (but for rentals that would just push rent up). The same can be seen in other countries, especially in "desirable" areas or areas that can be made desirable. But that just pushes others out.



I bought my first house in 1998 having saved for 10% deposit (some of that from NHS work), house price around 3 times salary and getting in just before prices went silly. On moving up my wife had savings so we didn't need to extend the mortgage. We were fortunate.

Halcyon 05-09-2022 10:42
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36133212)
We need to remodel the economy, patterned on the Scandinavian or Nordic Model. The high net worth individuals need to be taxed more: on wealth, not income to redistribute some of the gains made over the last 40 years of trickle up free market economics.

Lastly, with these changes, I personally would be paying more in taxes. I have no problem doing this as I believe in this country, unlike others who just want to take all the money they can and contribute nothing in return.

:clap:

tweetiepooh 05-09-2022 11:00
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36133212)

We need to remodel the economy, patterned on the Scandinavian or Nordic Model. The high net worth individuals need to be taxed more: on wealth, not income to redistribute some of the gains made over the last 40 years of trickle up free market economics.
Problem is then defining high net worth. Say you live in a property you bought cheap many years back in an area that has become "desirable" so increased disproportionately in value you may have high worth but you are cash poor why should you pay for that? Or you bought a wreck, worked on it over many years, invested in it (paying tax on all that work), looked after it so again it has high worth?


It seems to be a pretty leftist idea to tax success.

Maggy 05-09-2022 11:20
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36133222)
Problem is then defining high net worth. Say you live in a property you bought cheap many years back in an area that has become "desirable" so increased disproportionately in value you may have high worth but you are cash poor why should you pay for that? Or you bought a wreck, worked on it over many years, invested in it (paying tax on all that work), looked after it so again it has high worth?


It seems to be a pretty leftist idea to tax success.
Think of it as a way of paying forward for those who are just starting out and don't have wealthy family to help out.Why should being successful exempt you from paying taxes?

Hugh 05-09-2022 11:29
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36133222)
Problem is then defining high net worth. Say you live in a property you bought cheap many years back in an area that has become "desirable" so increased disproportionately in value you may have high worth but you are cash poor why should you pay for that? Or you bought a wreck, worked on it over many years, invested in it (paying tax on all that work), looked after it so again it has high worth?

It seems to be a pretty leftist idea to tax success.
Easy enough to exempt main residences from any ‘wealth tax"…

Pierre 05-09-2022 14:40
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.
- Cecil Rhodes

(I'd expand that to cover all the UK.)

Hugh 05-09-2022 15:25
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36133264)
Quote:
Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.
- Cecil Rhodes

(I'd expand that to cover all the UK.)
Which brings us back to the Thread subject - Rhodes left the U.K. aged 17, and spent most of the rest of his life in Southern Africa…

jfman 05-09-2022 16:34
Re: Is it time to leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36133275)
Which brings us back to the Thread subject - Rhodes left the U.K. aged 17, and spent most of the rest of his life in Southern Africa…
:rofl:


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