Cable Forum - U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion

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Chris

03-05-2022 13:04

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36120927)

The individual states ARE imposing their own restrictions because they have the legal competence to do so.
As your quote stated :- "part of strategy to push back against rush of state laws". Of course, if the makeup of Congress etc changes, then they could return full control to the individual states.

States can do whatever they are competent to do. By definition they cannot do what they are not competent to do. Even if they try, their actions will be struck down by the Supreme Court. States can make laws around access to abortion but they can’t ban it. They are not competent to do so because it is unconstitutional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomad

your quote stated :- "part of strategy to push back against rush of state laws".

I didn’t say that, nor have I linked to anyone who did. :confused:

BenMcr

03-05-2022 13:10

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36120929)

They are not competent to do so because it is unconstitutional.

I don't think that's true. From the Politico story:

Quote:

The immediate impact of the ruling as drafted in February would be to end a half-century guarantee of federal constitutional protection of abortion rights and allow each state to decide whether to restrict or ban abortion.

---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

There has been no law banning it to date because of Roe vs Wade. Once that's gone I don't think there is any constitutional bar to a ban.

Maggy

03-05-2022 13:16

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36120911)

There is also the way a lot of the evangelical right look at this. They don't want women to have access to safe and legal abortion, but as soon as the resulting child is born they don't seem to want any support for them and the family at either the state or federal level.

I also don't understand why a lot of the same people that are supportive for the 'right to life' when it comes to abortion are also big supporters of the death penalty.

:tu:

Chris

03-05-2022 13:17

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36120930)

I don't think that's true. From the Politico story:

---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

There has been no law banning it to date because of Roe vs Wade. Once that's gone I don't think there is any constitutional bar to a ban.

Somewhat confusingly, I’m talking about the constitutional ban as it now stands, not as it might change… Don’t forget, what we’re talking about this morning is a draft, unpublished ruling that may yet never come to pass. As of right now, the states are not competent to ban abortion, because the supreme court opinion as it presently stands is that abortion is unconstitutional.

Damien

03-05-2022 13:24

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

It's going to be interesting to see what happens now. As the original stated it was been known for votes to change between drafts and the Justices debate and seek to change each other's minds.

But it's hard to imagine that they hadn't known where they are on this issue for years now. It's one the main issues they get appointed with in mind.

And who leaked it? Why? Seems like someone inside the court released it in order to try and exert pressure on the justices or politicians ahead of the mid-terms.

downquark1

03-05-2022 17:05

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36120934)

And who leaked it? Why? Seems like someone inside the court released it in order to try and exert pressure on the justices or politicians ahead of the mid-terms.

If this had been on another subject it would have been called a violation of procedural justice and a threat to democracy. But it was this, so it's fine.

pip08456

03-05-2022 18:02

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Here we go again, media scaremongering that will probably lead to another 100+ page thread on something that may not turn out to be fact.

It's a draft of what one of the SCOTUS considers to be the final decision which has gone to the others for input.

Everything or parts could change before the final decision as has happened before. It is not yet a done deal.

The final ruling will not be until June/July.

Quote:

In 1992, then-Justice Anthony Kennedy, a conservative, had indicated that he was going to vote with the majority of the court to overturn Roe in Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Then he changed his mind, and the court voted to uphold the ruling.

If Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, Texas will completely ban abortion.

Hugh	03-05-2022 19:33

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36120956)

Here we go again, media scaremongering that will probably lead to another 100+ page thread on something that may not turn out to be fact.

It's a draft of what one of the SCOTUS considers to be the final decision which has gone to the others for input.

Everything or parts could change before the final decision as has happened before. It is not yet a done deal.

The final ruling will not be until June/July.

If Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, Texas will completely ban abortion.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...inion-00029473

Quote:

A person familiar with the court’s deliberations said that four of the other Republican-appointed justices – Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett – had voted with Alito in the conference held among the justices after hearing oral arguments in December, and that line-up remains unchanged as of this week.

Quote:

The document, labeled as a first draft of the majority opinion, includes a notation that it was circulated among the justices on Feb. 10.

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

Interesting point (imho) at the end of an article in today’s Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...supreme-court/

Quote:

There is one possible sliver of a silver lining in this calamity of a ruling. Alito went out of his way to distinguish abortion from other rights, similarly unstated in the Constitution, such as access to contraception, homosexual sex and same-sex marriage. Abortion, he argued, is “a unique act” because it, unlike the others, implicates potential human life.

“We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” Alito wrote. “Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”

You can, perhaps, take some solace in this. Or you could remember that Alito dissented vigorously in the same-sex marriage ruling, arguing that “the Constitution leaves that question to be decided by the people of each State.” If that sounds alarmingly familiar, it should.

pip08456

03-05-2022 21:53

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36120957)

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...inion-00029473

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

Interesting point (imho) at the end of an article in today’s Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...supreme-court/

What are you trying to say Hugh? Yes it is is the first draft of apparently the majority opiniion written by ONE person. Has he got the opinions of those others correct? This is why it is a draft.

Why does it matter when it was circulated when the final decision isn't expected until June/July?

Has it been corrected/changed/ammended since then?

Kavenaugh has to be very careful as he stated under oath in front of congress that Roe v Wade was a settled question. Even a Supreme Court Justice can be impeached.

Damien

03-05-2022 22:09

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36120988)

What are you trying to say Hugh? Yes it is is the first draft of apparently the majority opinion written by ONE person. Has he got the opinions of those others correct? This is why it is a draft.

The Majority and Minority opinions are usually written by one person to speak as the voice of the court.

Mick	03-05-2022 22:30

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36120988)

Yes, they can but like presidential impeachments, requires super majority in the Senate, Republicans won’t side with the Democrats and the pathetic Democrats can’t keep using the impeachment tool to get their own way, it wasn’t designed for that.

nomadking

03-05-2022 22:41

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

If the document is genuine, then it has already been decided. The document is in order to set out the reasons for that decision, and for the other majority Judges to agree with it.

Hugh	03-05-2022 22:43

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36120996)

If the document is genuine, then it has already been decided. The document is in order to set out the reasons for that decision, and for the other majority Judges to agree with it.

Not necessarily true…

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/10961...pinion-process

Quote:

There's always a chance that the draft opinion doesn't end up looking similar to the final opinion, NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg told Morning Edition, noting that this has happened numerous times.

A majority of justices must "sign onto" the court's opinion before it can be delivered publicly, according to the U.S. Courts website.

"No opinion is considered the official opinion of the Court until it is delivered in open Court (or at least made available to the public)," it says.

nomadking

03-05-2022 22:56

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36120997)

Not necessarily true…

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/10961...pinion-process

The reasons for a decision are one thing, the actual decision is another.
If the decision changes, who then writes the reasons? There must've been a broad agreement on the reasons for the document to exist.

It would be silly if each Judge had to write two personal opinions of the reasons. One agreeing with an outcome, the other disagreeing.

Chris

03-05-2022 22:58

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36120997)

Not necessarily true…

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/10961...pinion-process

Not necessarily, however multiple people apparently in the know have said today that in this case, the basic decision has been made and it is only likely to be the reasons that are finessed before publication. The leak is likely to have occurred in order to get maximum change to the reasons, potentially limiting the impact of the decision.

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