Cable Forum - General Channel 4 to be privatised

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Hugh	05-04-2022 16:12

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36118175)

I think you only have to look at Channel 4’s schedules to see the reason for the sell-off. They started off well in the beginning all those years ago, and they started off looking quite different, but sadly the schedules are now pretty mundane.

Without too many restrictions being imposed by government, this channel could be transformed with the increased cash that it would be able to raise by not being in public ownership. Only then, in the right ownership, could we be free of these mundane cookery, home makeover, house selling shows and the rest.

Before you jump to conclusions about the value of Channel 4, it might be worthwhile to look at the schedules for the week and work out exactly how many of the programmes on the channel you are actually watching. You might be surprised. Unpleasantly, I would wager.

You appear to have miraculously avoided commenting on any of the points I made in my post…

muppetman11

05-04-2022 16:49

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36118195)

You appear to have miraculously avoided commenting on any of the points I made in my post…

He’s very good at that ;):D

Hugh	05-04-2022 18:15

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

The consultation remit was

Quote:

The consultation therefore asks for views and evidence on what ownership model and remit will best support Channel 4 to thrive for another 40 years and beyond.

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...0/CBP-9280.pdf

I am sure we will be shown these views and evidence, and that they back up the Government’s proposal to privatise C4, otherwise what was the point of the time, effort, and costs involved in the consultation?

Also in the briefing above were the results of a previous report on C4 undertaken in 2016, which stated

Quote:

The Committee concluded that the risks of privatisation outweighed any potential benefits:

...some of the important content that C4C produces in news, current affairs and film would be at risk if the organisation was privatised and had to operate in a more commercially focussed environment. C4C’s roles in commissioning programmes from smaller production companies and from outside London would both be threatened by a privatisation deal.

We are concerned that, notwithstanding assurances given at the point of sale, a private owner may seek to dilute C4C’s public service remit in future, in order to maximise profit. We draw attention to the risk involved in a sale: once a company has passed into private ownership—particularly, as is likely, with a C4C sale, into overseas’ ownership—there is no mechanism to control or influence its fate.

We heard little evidence to suggest that C4C itself or the creative industries would benefit from full or part privatisation. The risks appear to outweigh any potential benefits. Key questions about the future of C4C remain unanswered. If privatisation in any part is proposed by the Government we would expect to see a full, public consultation on the evidence for a change in the ownership model of C4C. However it is our clear preference that the status quo be maintained as there are many more risks than benefits involved in privatisation.

Government response
In her March 2017 response to the Committee’s report, Karen Bradley, the then Secretary of State, said that “Channel 4’s public service model and remit, which are so vital to the continued strength of the UK’s broadcasting ecology, would not be best served by privatisation”.

The full remit was

Quote:

The consultation sought respondents’ views on:

• whether they agreed that there were challenges in the current TV broadcasting market that presented barriers to a sustainable Channel 4 in public ownership.
• whether a continued Channel 4, with a continued public service broadcasting licence and remit, would be better placed to deliver sustainably against the government’s aims for public service broadcasting if it was outside public ownership.
• what the economic, social and cultural costs and benefits might be to moving Channel 4 out of public ownership.

OLD BOY

05-04-2022 19:22

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36118195)

You appear to have miraculously avoided commenting on any of the points I made in my post…

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36118191)

All broadcasters will make 'mundane cookery, home makeover, house selling shows'. It's cheap to produce, is popular enough that it's worth making, and for ad funded broadcasters brings ad revenue in along with the viewers.

By making those shows, Channel 4 gets the profits to reinvest in the shows that profit-for-shareholders commercial broadcasters don't touch with barge pole.

Where are those shows?

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

To be fair, Channel 4 has a lot of new series in prime time starting next week, but I wouldn’t call them unique. They could have appeared on any channel, frankly.

A Lake District Farm Shop
Inside the Superbrands
SAS: Who Dares Wins
The Cane Field Killings (yes, I will watch that one)
Dispatches
Travel Man
Derry Girls
Hullraisers
Grand Designs
Naked Attraction’s Best Naughty Bits (oh, please!
Luxury Homes & Gardens for Less
Taskmaster
Hotel Chocolate at Easter

So which of those, watchable though most of them might be, can be described as ‘unique’’? You can find many similar programmes on Sky, and they are not great, frankly.

Chris

05-04-2022 19:24

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36118208)

I noted the points you made, but they weren’t questions for me to answer. I don’t speak for Nadine or anyone else in government. I notice you didn’t answer my questions either..

---------- Post added at 19:06 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------

Where are those shows?

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

To be fair, Channel 4 has a lot of new series in prime time starting next week, but I wouldn’t call them unique. They could have appeared on any channel, frankly.

A Lake District Farm Shop
Inside the Superbrands
SAS: Who Dares Wins
The Cane Field Killings (yes, I will watch that one)
Dispatches
Travel Man
Derry Girls
Hullraisers
Grand Designs
Naked Attraction’s Best Naughty Bits (oh, please!
Luxury Homes & Gardens for Less
Taskmaster
Hotel Chocolate at Easter

So which of those, watchable though most of them might be, can be described as ‘unique’’? You can find many similar programmes on Sky, and they are not great, frankly.

The shows in that list that I recognise are all shows that were only ever likely to have been made by Channel 4. You undermine your argument somewhat by invoking Sky, which is of course behind a paywall and therefore not providing the public service broadcasting that Channel 4’s defenders claim is at risk from privatisation.

OLD BOY

05-04-2022 19:30

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36118202)

The consultation remit was

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...0/CBP-9280.pdf

I am sure we will be shown these views and evidence, and that they back up the Government’s proposal to privatise C4, otherwise what was the point of the time, effort, and costs involved in the consultation?

Also in the briefing above were the results of a previous report on C4 undertaken in 2016, which stated

The full remit was

In a fast changing industry, do you think the views expressed six years ago are still relevant? Wasn’t that about the time Ofcom was still convinced that Project Kangaroo was irrelevant?

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36118211)

Channel 5 seems to be doing all right, and it’s not behind a paywall.

I really don’t think there is any merit behind that claim that such programmes were never likely to be made by other companies. I don’t see any evidence for that, but of course I respect that you are entitled to your opinion.

Maggy

05-04-2022 20:20

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Channel 4 News is still the best news programme compared to the BBC,ITV,Sky and Channel 5 offerings.

GrimUpNorth

05-04-2022 21:12

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36118212)

In a fast changing industry, do you think the views expressed six years ago are still relevant? Wasn’t that about the time Ofcom was still convinced that Project Kangaroo was irrelevant?

Well it's nearly 5 years since you started the end of linear TV is nigh thread so not long to go to see how (ir)relevant your views are six years on, because remember it's a fast changing industry ;)

BenMcr

05-04-2022 22:12

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36118208)

Where are those shows?

You only have to look at Channel 4's own website to see the content they've commissioned that either would not have been done or could not have been done in the same way

https://www.channel4.com/commissioning/4producers/drama

Quote:

That includes Russell T Davies’ landmark drama about the HIV epidemic It's A Sin, Jack Thorne’s game-changing single Help about the first wave of COVID; Emilia di Girolamo’s feminist slant on true crime, Deceit; Shane Meadows’ masterpiece of repressed memory in The Virtues; Charlie Covell’s darkly comic series The End Of The ****ing World, or Lucy Kirkwood’s controversial drama about the UK porn industry, Adult Material. We are also the home of Yorkshire-based returning series Ackley Bridge, which revolutionised the school drama genre, as well as award-winning, progressive soap Hollyoaks. Through drama, we are always encouraging audiences to look at the world in a new and different way.

https://www.channel4.com/commissioning/4producers/film4

Quote:

Film4 has developed and co-financed many of the most successful UK films of recent years, Academy Award®-winners such as Martin McDonagh’s Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, Lenny Abrahamson’s Room, Alex Garland’s Ex Machina, Asif Kapadia’s box office record breaking documentary Amy, Steve McQueen’s 12 Years a Slave, Danny Boyle’s Slumdog Millionaire and Phyllida Lloyd’s The Iron Lady, in addition to critically-acclaimed award-winners such as Lynne Ramsay’s You Were Never Really Here, Andrea Arnold’s American Honey, Yorgos Lanthimos’s The Lobster, Mike Leigh’s Mr. Turner, Chris Morris’s Four Lions, Shane Meadows’ This is England, Clio Barnard’s The Selfish Giant, Jonathan Glazer’s Under the Skin, Andrew Haigh’s 45 Years and David Mackenzie’s Starred Up.

TheDaddy

05-04-2022 22:28

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36118222)

Channel 4 News is still the best news programme compared to the BBC,ITV,Sky and Channel 5 offerings.

And that's what will go first, that and the documentaries, wonder if that's why they want it privatised?

See Ben Bradley got called out on twitter by Gary bloody Lineker of all people for lying about Channel 4 being funded by the taxpayer :(

Hugh	05-04-2022 23:02

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36118208)

I didn’t answer your questions because they were irrelevant to the subject in hand - the proposed privatisation of C4 by this Government after consultation was conducted.

Quote:

Any decisions, privatisation or otherwise, should be based on the remit of the consultation, not on whether you (or I) find the programmes of interest to us personally.

That’s why decision criteria are established on this type of thing - so it can be shown that any decision taken was free of bias, personal whim, or rancor towards the organisation being reviewed.

I look forward to seeing the proposed privatisation being debated in the Hpuses of Parliament, where the evidence & views can be discussed and debated, rather than a fair accompli being presented by a Secretary of State who didn’t even know how the organisation under discuss was funded…

OLD BOY

05-04-2022 23:23

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36118228)

And if you open your eyes, it’s all coming true. Look how things have changed in just five years. Think of how much can change in a decade or so from now.

Anyway, this thread is about Channel 4, and we are both entitled to our opinions, although I am merely reporting on the government’s plan to sell off C4. There’s no need for us all to argue about it, surely?

Chris

05-04-2022 23:29

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36118247)

And if you open your eyes, it’s all coming true. Look how things have changed in just five years.

Please specify.

Hugh	06-04-2022 00:26

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36118212)

In a fast changing industry, do you think the views expressed six years ago are still relevant? Wasn’t that about the time Ofcom was still convinced that Project Kangaroo was irrelevant?

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Channel 5 seems to be doing all right, and it’s not behind a paywall.

I really don’t think there is any merit behind that claim that such programmes were never likely to be made by other companies. I don’t see any evidence for that, but of course I respect that you are entitled to your opinion.

How about from less than a year ago (from my previous post link)

Quote:

Alex Mahon and Charles Gurassa (Channel 4 Chair) were questioned about the possible privatisation of Channel 4 when they gave evidence to the DCMS Committee on 22 June 2021. 1Kevin Brennan MP asked what had changed since the 2016 Lords Committee report. Alex Mahon said:

Probably there are a couple of things that have changed...One is that the digital landscape has become more dangerous in terms of social media, so the importance of public service content has probably become higher, which is maybe the opposite of what we would have thought five years ago, but that sort of trusted, objective, fact-checked requirement for news is more important than ever before and certain kinds of content.

The other is there is a lot of competition, but it is not making British content owned by British companies, and perhaps the other thing is the export value of those companies. We do a lot for British companies that send their content abroad. That gives us soft power as a country...Our role in ensuring that we allow that stuff to be made and get it exported is perhaps even more important than it was.

Mr Brennan also asked:
Would it be fair to say that both of you are saying there is no new compelling argument for privatisation that has arisen in the last five and a half years that makes it any more of a sensible path to take than it was previously?...

Alex Mahon replied: “Not that I have seen at this stage, but I look forward to seeing any analysis”

Like most reasonable people, I would like to see the analysis and evidence behind this decision, and validate if the decision proposed meets the criteria set out in the remit.

TheDaddy

06-04-2022 03:26

Re: Channel 4 to be privatised

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36118254)

How about from less than a year ago (from my previous post link)

Like most reasonable people, I would like to see the analysis and evidence behind this decision, and validate if the decision proposed meets the criteria set out in the remit.

Arron Banks gave his analysis earlier but I wouldn't call it reasonable but I wonder if he's that wide of the mark

C4 news is an extension of The Guardian newsroom, a bunch of trendy Oxford educated lefties with less neutrality than the BBC! We are engaged in a cultural war where the right win elections and the left control the media. It needs a bullet in the back of the head pronto

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:14.

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