Cable Forum - AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

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- - AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710374)

Mick	16-09-2021 11:36

Re: UK-USA-AUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

LATEST: France lashes out at AUKUS Pact….France has accused U.S President Joe Biden of stabbing it in the back and acting like his predecessor, former President Trump, after Paris was snubbed from a $40bn (£29bn) defence deal it had signed with Australia. Source: Sky News.

https://news.sky.com/story/france-ac...-deal-12409319

Chris

16-09-2021 13:02

Re: UK-USA-AUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

So, the French are upset and China’s realised it isn’t going to get everything its own way in the Pacific. A good day at the office so far.

Mick	16-09-2021 13:57

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

NEW: Brussels sticks it’s head above the parapet: European Council President, Charles Michel: “The #AUKUS security partnership further demonstrates the need for a common EU approach in a region of strategic interest.

A strong EU Indo-Pacific strategy is needed more than ever.

I welcome today’s presentation of @JosepBorrellF strategy

On the agenda of the October #EUCO”

Maggy

16-09-2021 13:58

Re: UK-USA-AUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36093215)

So, the French are upset and China’s realised it isn’t going to get everything its own way in the Pacific. A good day at the office so far.

:tu:

Chris

16-09-2021 14:19

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36093223)

I really have no idea how they plan to do anything meaningful in strategic security terms. China’s attempt to annexe great swathes of the South China Sea as its own territorial waters is the major issue in that part of the world. While anyone with a frigate can perform freedom of navigation patrols in the area, only doing so with a significant show of strength is worth the effort. That means you need a carrier group, which we have (but only just). France has a carrier but is certainly no more capable of supporting a full strike group on a world cruise than we are. It might be able to muster the support of the Dutch or the Italians to sail with it but is it seriously going to put that sort of mission under an EU flag, with EU operational oversight? France loves EU integration to the extent it benefits the French. It can talk about a common military security policy but all it is really interested in is smaller EU forces falling into line behind French commanders.

Damien

16-09-2021 14:27

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

tbh I don't understand either France or the Anglosphere's distrust of each other. France is really the only other major player in Europe so it's in our interests for them to be close to us and it's in their interests too. Does France want to carry most of Europe on its back when it comes to defence?

1andrew1

16-09-2021 15:46

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36093227)

They're both key collaborative NATO members. Perhaps it plays to each country's electorate to keep it this way.

Sephiroth

16-09-2021 15:59

Re: UK-USA-AUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36093208)

Yes, yes, yes.

Taf	16-09-2021 16:19

Re: UK-USA-AUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36093215)

So, the French are upset and China’s realised it isn’t going to get everything its own way in the Pacific. A good day at the office so far.

:tu:

China is trying, and succeeding, to control both the China Sea and big chunks of the Indian Ocean, aided by ports built in Africa. Plus their island-building project is not showing signs of slowing, neither is its naval force.

Chris

16-09-2021 17:15

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36093227)

Anglo-French rivalry is a fact of life. It has been for as long as England and France have existed (the Scots like to think of their ‘Auld Alliance’ with France, but seem oblivious to the fact that the ‘alliance’ existed only as long as it suited French interests with regards to their ongoing rivalry with England).

No, the French don’t want to carry European defence by themselves and I think there’s more than a little bit of faux outrage at play. They know they can put the boot into the Anglos because they know they are never actually going to have to carry the can for it. That said, losing that sub contract will sting, so a little genuine hurt on that score is understandable.

Itshim

16-09-2021 17:31

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

France ! Does history not teach as anything

pip08456

17-09-2021 18:49

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Interesting article in the Spectator today.

Quote:

It is hard to overstate the importance of the so-called Aukus alliance between the US, the UK and Australia — and the implicit geopolitical disaster for the EU. The alliance is the culmination of multiple European failures: naivety at the highest level of the EU about US foreign policy; Brussels’s political misjudgements of Joe Biden and his China strategy; compulsive obsession with Donald Trump; and the attempt to corner Theresa May during the Brexit talks. If you treat the UK as a strategic adversary, don’t be surprised when the UK exploits the areas where it enjoys a competitive advantage.

The EU has outmanoeuvred itself through lazy group-think. While German political parties are still discussing the pros and cons of Nato, the Biden administration is moving beyond Nato towards a multipolar defence strategy. Nato remains a pillar but it is now supplemented by informal Indo-Pacific alliances. One of them is the quad: the US, Japan, India and Australia. Five Eyes is an informal intelligence alliance between the US, Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand. Aukus is a nuclear submarine pact between the US, the UK and Australia. This is the variable geometry of the new international order — whereas the monolithic EU is stuck with its 27 veto-wielding members in the foreign affairs council.

The UK’s investment in modern defence technologies (and some of their civilian offsprings) are of a different order to other European states. It is natural that the US turns to the UK for this specific project aimed at containing the influence of China.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...f-eu-impotence

Mick	17-09-2021 21:11

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

BREAKING: NEW: France recalls ambassadors to both United States and Australia (but not to the UK)

https://news.sky.com/story/france-to...-snub-12410788

Chris

17-09-2021 21:24

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

Wow. They’ve really thrown le hochet out of le landau. :rofl:

Sephiroth

17-09-2021 21:36

Re: AUKUS Strategic nuclear submarine pact

I now expect mrmistofelees to demand that Australia meets its obligations to France.

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